French ministers comments about autism

[trekster]

Hello

 

i was wondering if anyone had seen this article in the guardian this morning?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/no...es-castrated-uk

 

Also newsnight made reference to the comments in an interview with William Hague last night

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nt...ght_04_11_2009/

 

The NAS is making a statement about this issue but i was wondering what others thought of it.

 

Personally i think he should have known better but being from another country he could have used the

term "inflexible" which is what he appeared to mean.

 

"The Conservatives were accused by the French government tonight of "castrating" Britain's position within the EU by adopting an "autistic" approach that would take Britain off the radar." (actually it was last night) the guardian article continues "accused William Hague, the shadow foreign secretary, of a "bizarre autism" in their discussions."

 

Alexis (very upset about this, i thought i was hearing things at 1st!)

[Sally44]

Yes, I saw it this morning as a headline mentioned on 'The Wright Stuff'.

I am not happy for 'autism' to be used as a acceptable word that conveys a negative response or behaviour within an organisation.

When I was a child, the words thrown about the playground were to call someone a 'spastic' or a 'mong'. Obviously in 2009 we have moved no further forward, and even national newspapers find it acceptable to use that kind of terminology.

If I can add my name to a list of 'complainers' please let me know.

 

[baddad]

Not in any way defending it, because I get totally incensed when I see autism/autistic used as a verb in this way and there is certainly a growing trend for it being used in this way, but...

It may be, given the second language thing, that what was happening here was something akin to the misuse of the word 'chauvenist' or something like that... the word 'autism' is derived from auto-ism which, historically' would imply:

the tendency to daydream, to fantasize, to view life in terms of one’s own needs or desires regardless of reality.

either way, it would be absolutely right of the NAS to 'correct' him and highlight the offense he's caused, but not to go in all guns blazing just in case.

 

[noogsy]

i just hate the way this word has been used

it feels like some one saying spazz

or mongal

or retard

im just so offended

in fact when i was watching the news this morning

my stomach lurched and i felt sick

its just attention seeking language

designed to get our attention.

well they have it

they have our attention

noogsy

 

[Kathryn]

I also wondered whether it is a linguistic misunderstanding but I suspect not, as he appears to have a high level command of English. It could be that he isn't aware of the implications of using the word in such a way - let's hope he and others learn something from the negative response.

 

K x

[Mumble]

I don't understand this article (or rather the quoted statements). For instance, what do things like:

 

adopting an "autistic" approach

 

and

 

He said: "They have one line and they just repeat one line. It is a very bizarre sense of autism."

 

mean?

 

I've tried putting other words than autism in place to see if it makes sense, but it doesn't. What is he actually saying here? What is the article/minister claiming and how does it relate to autism?

 

[Zakkala]

Saw this article this morning and was furious. I found the gentleman's website and e-mailed him advising of how objectionable his comments were and asking him to make a public apology. I await a response.

[Zakkala]

Seems he's now withdrawn his comments:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8345199.stm

 

Will be interested to see if he replies to my e-mail though.

 

Can't say I like the wording of the bbc article - surely the word isn't offensive, it's his use of it?

 

"He also said he did not realise the word "autistic" - which he used to describe the Tory policy - could seen as offensive in English and he retracted the remark."

 

 

[KezT]

The word is commonly used in France to describe a stubborn person who does not listen.

 

anyone know enough French to confirm this? I have to say, if you are going to drop native words into a second language you should specify that they are native! Most french people I have heard interviewed preface such things with "how do you say?" or "as we would say" or something like that.

 

And...... if it is used in french in that way, is it also used as a medical term? if so, i reckon the French NAS equivilent should be jumping up and down in anger!!!!!

[sesley]

i expect the French Austims society have had a few things to say to him.

[LicklePaulie]

How is it that people with a condition that includes amongst its traits a tendency to literal use of language can claim personal abuse when somebody uses a term in its literal sense in another context? The terms 'autism' and 'autistic' are derived from the Greek autos ('self') and, whether one accepts the French view of the Conservative Party or not, I feel it is disingenuous to take offence when they use the term/s to describe an inward-facing and self-absorbed approach when dealing with European politics. That is, in my view, no worse than describing somebody as 'blind' when one believes obvious consequences have been missed, etc. Do we hear visually-impaired individuals screaming "foul" when that happens? Of course not, so what gives us that right?

 

I note that M. Lellouche has since apologised for his ignorance of the offensive connotations of the word (which I obviously share) along with the word "pathetic". I am not a francophile and do not know enough about his politics to attack or defend them whilst I do a great deal of work to increase awareness of the issues faced by individuals with ASCs. It is from this perspective that I bemoan this trivial (imho) "political-correctness" diverting attention from the very real problems we face in an NT-dominated society.

Edited November 5, 2009 by LicklePaulie

[Tally]

He said: "They have one line and they just repeat one line. It is a very bizarre sense of autism."

If he was trying to say they were inward looking, why has he talked about echolalia?

I think he knew exactly what he was saying.

[Mumble]

How is it that people with a condition that includes amongst its traits a tendency to literal use of language can claim personal abuse when somebody uses a term in its literal sense in another context? The terms 'autism' and 'autistic' are derived from the Greek autos ('self') and, whether one accepts the French view of the Conservative Party or not, I feel it is disingenuous to take offence when they use the term/s to describe an inward-facing and self-absorbed approach when dealing with European politics. That is, in my view, no worse than describing somebody as 'blind' when one believes obvious consequences have been missed, etc. Do we hear visually-impaired individuals screaming "foul" when that happens? Of course not, so what gives us that right?

I think the difference is that (whether right or not, I'm not arguing either way) blind is a common metaphor being used to mean not being able to see something but not necessarily in terms of actual eyesight whereas autistic isn't a common metaphor (in the English language).

[Cat]

I think the difference is that (whether right or not, I'm not arguing either way) blind is a common metaphor being used to mean not being able to see something but not necessarily in terms of actual eyesight whereas autistic isn't a common metaphor (in the English language).

 

It as whoever was reviewing the papers on BBC News 24 who angered me more that the article itself. The woman (sorry I did not catch her name) commented that it was probably an appropriate use of the word autistic when used in connection with the Conservative Party who are disconnected from reality

 

Cat

[trekster]

I also wondered whether it is a linguistic misunderstanding but I suspect not, as he appears to have a high level command of English. It could be that he isn't aware of the implications of using the word in such a way - let's hope he and others learn something from the negative response.

 

K x

 

i hear it was in response to David Camerons repetitive responses. He said the same thing over and over again. He accused Hague of using "bizzare autism" at one point as well. Those links can lead you to add to your comments. i went along ticking the ones supporting the "this is unfair" statements and reported the ones on french fellas side for the wrong reason. Didnt look at the lisbon treaty only comments.

 

Alexis

 

[trekster]

Adopting an autistic approach was in response i think to David Cs apparent inflexible, black and white thinking attitude.

 

The one line approach was to do with repeating the same methods over and over again despite their apparent failure. So again a very black and white way of doing things.

 

He could have said "you are being very inflexible about this" or "your bizarre behaviour isn't sound"

 

Alexis

[LicklePaulie]

It as whoever was reviewing the papers on BBC News 24 who angered me more that the article itself. The woman (sorry I did not catch her name) commented that it was probably an appropriate use of the word autistic when used in connection with the Conservative Party who are disconnected from reality

 

Cat

Now in that context, I agree, use of the term is uneducated and offensive

[trekster]

anyone know enough French to confirm this? I have to say, if you are going to drop native words into a second language you should specify that they are native! Most french people I have heard interviewed preface such things with "how do you say?" or "as we would say" or something like that.

 

And...... if it is used in french in that way, is it also used as a medical term? if so, i reckon the French NAS equivilent should be jumping up and down in anger!!!!!

 

Could we report it to the European Court of Human Rights?

 

[trekster]

i expect the French Austims society have had a few things to say to him.

 

"Her name is sabine" was an excellent program about the plight of one autistic lady and the lack of support in France.

Their attitudes are apparently "autistics hallucinate and denying this confirms your hallucinating"!

 

Dark ages!

[trekster]

bbc news article "But Liberal Group MEP Liz Lynne, vice-president of the European Parliament's disability group, said she was "deeply concerned" about the use of the word in a derogatory manner and said Mr Lellouche should apologise." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8345199.stm

 

Oh and the NAS are writing a statement about this issue.

Edited November 6, 2009 by trekster

[trekster]

NAS statement today

 

"Media response: use of the terms autism and autistic

 

Thursday 5 November 2009

 

Autism (including Asperger syndrome) is a serious, lifelong and disabling condition. Comments such as those attributed to Pierre Lellouche, France's Europe Minister, in which he seemingly suggests the Conservative Party, and in particular, William Hague, demonstrate a bizarre sense of autism are therefore extremely unhelpful.

 

To use the terms 'autism' and 'autistic' in a derogatory or flippant manner can cause deep distress and hurt to people affected by the condition. The National Autistic Society (NAS) is keen to address this issue, in order that these terms are not used lightly, particularly by commentators or people in positions of power or influence.

 

Autism is much more common than most people think and affects over half a million people in the UK. To use the terms as a criticism, for dramatic effect or to try and gain political advantage only perpetuates the confusion and misunderstanding which people with autism have to cope with everyday. This is simply unacceptable and must stop. "