Fainting!

[justine1]

Hi

As I have mentioned before ,my soon to be 4 year old,son (Dan) hasnt been eating very well for three years.Yesterday I asked him 6 times what he wanted to eat,in the end I made him spaghetti ,which I know he eats at his dads,we all sat at the table and then he said he wanted pasta twists not spaghetti I refused to do this as I was tired and we were already eating 30 min later than usual.I refused to give in and left the spaghetti in front of him,he didnt fuss he just sat there and had his drink while we all ate.

 

Then this morning he got out of bed,went to the toilet and BANG he fainted on the floor,it took 10min to get him up,he didnt seem to be affected,just rubbed his head.I got him to eat his breakfast(which is usually the only time he eats)before taking him to nursery I gave him a snack which he didnt eat.He takes lunch to nursery,so I mentioned to the teacher that he fainted ad his leg was troubling him on the way over.So I will see if he has eaten when I fetch him.

 

I am just really worried.I have taken him to three different GP's,none of them can give me advice on what to do,just the usual,either give him what he wants dont talk about food,dont make it an issue etc etc!I have tried just giving him what we all eat it went on for three months and he didnt cave in just became weak,but he has never fainted.Not sure what to do,thinking of returning to the doctor tomorrow but not sure how far I will get as it hasnt helped before!

[baddad]

Hi justine -

Can't really offer any advice re the fainting, but it sounds like you've got a real problem on your hands - maybe something more complicated than a GP can handle?

When you say he didn't cave in for 3 months 'just became weak', what were the circumstances? He must have been eating something during that period otherwise he would have been hospitalised for malnutrition?

What's different about the way food is served at dads - why might he eat spaghetti there but not at home? Does dad react differently if food is refused or are there different expectations? Could there be a connection between you and dad splitting up and his food refusal (was it an issue before you split up or only since?) - it could be some misguided psychological reaction to that. Are there other factors that differ between dads and your own home - additional (or missing) siblings/children/adults/pets; different routines etc etc?

Be careful of making assumptions like 'he can't generalise the skills he's learnt at dad's' - while that can be a factor for some autistic children it is only one of very many explanations that could equally (or even more than equally) apply.

Just as some people feel compelled to eat and feel hungry 'all the time' others naturally have body-clocks that work the opposite way. We live in a country with an increasing obesity problem, it's true, but there are also millions of people out there who are just 'skinny': Not medium or thin, but skinny...

And it's not always because they have fast metabolisms and eat like horses without gaining weight, or because they are anorexic or systematic dieters half starving themselves. More often than not it's just they eat less than 'average' people do and much less than most obese people do.

I'd definitely watch the fainting, though, and be sure to check out any medical possibilities, but without assuming any specific connection with a skipped meal last night.

Did a quick google and found this site, which I hope will be helpful:

 

fainting

 

Hope he's feeling better soon

 

L&P

 

BD

[oxgirl]

That does sound very worrying.

We've had many worries with food over the years with our lad, who is now 16 and eats very well (if that's a comfort, I hope so). One thing I'd say is that my lad, apart from the food issues he had, never used to recognise the feeling of hunger and still doesn't to a great extent. Certainly I remember when he was very little, in a high chair, he'd never cry for food, EVER! It was 12.00, so I'd give him his lunch and he'd eat it. It was 4.00 so I'd give him his tea and he'd eat it, but he never asked for it and still never ever does. I've never heard him come to me and say 'I'm hungry, when's tea ready', like average kids. At teatime he'll eat his tea because that's what you do. Just something to think about maybe. Does your lad ask for food, does he say he's hungry, maybe he doesn't recognise the feeling?

The other thing is that when my lad was maybe 6/7 the GP prescribed some fortified juices for him and also some high energy powder. The juice was called Fortisip and had additional calories/vitamins in and the powder I used to mix in with his milk to give extra calories and carbs. Just something to think about, maybe it could be useful to ask your GP about this?

Good luck and hope he's okay.

 

~ Mel ~

[justine1]

Hi justine -

Can't really offer any advice re the fainting, but it sounds like you've got a real problem on your hands - maybe something more complicated than a GP can handle?

When you say he didn't cave in for 3 months 'just became weak', what were the circumstances? He must have been eating something during that period otherwise he would have been hospitalised for malnutrition?

What's different about the way food is served at dads - why might he eat spaghetti there but not at home? Does dad react differently if food is refused or are there different expectations? Could there be a connection between you and dad splitting up and his food refusal (was it an issue before you split up or only since?) - it could be some misguided psychological reaction to that. Are there other factors that differ between dads and your own home - additional (or missing) siblings/children/adults/pets; different routines etc etc?

Be careful of making assumptions like 'he can't generalise the skills he's learnt at dad's' - while that can be a factor for some autistic children it is only one of very many explanations that could equally (or even more than equally) apply.

Just as some people feel compelled to eat and feel hungry 'all the time' others naturally have body-clocks that work the opposite way. We live in a country with an increasing obesity problem, it's true, but there are also millions of people out there who are just 'skinny': Not medium or thin, but skinny...

And it's not always because they have fast metabolisms and eat like horses without gaining weight, or because they are anorexic or systematic dieters half starving themselves. More often than not it's just they eat less than 'average' people do and much less than most obese people do.

I'd definitely watch the fainting, though, and be sure to check out any medical possibilities, but without assuming any specific connection with a skipped meal last night.

Did a quick google and found this site, which I hope will be helpful:

 

fainting

 

Hope he's feeling better soon

 

L&P

 

BD

Thank you Baddad for your response.Most of the questions you have asked are the questions that go through mymind all the time!When I did the 3 month "experiment" he survived on 2 weetabix,2 rich tea biscuits and an apple (plus drink) this was every day for 3 months,when I say he was weak,that was about 2 months into it,he would lie on the floor constantly and seemed to sleep more than usual,he is generally active.This was when I approached the GP,this was a second GP.

 

He always had strange eating pattens in that when I was with his dad he would onlyeat with him,so he would eat breakfast before his dad went to work and eat dinner when his dad came home (often around 9pm) on these occasions he would sit on his dads lap and eat.He never had any issue with food,he ate anything.then when I left his dad he refused to eat anything,this lasted about month,all he ate was apples,bananas and drink.I took him to the GP for the first time and they said I should give him what ever he wants to eat as he was really skinny with dark rings under his eyes.Since then he has improved a little and he went through a stage of trying new foods,not eating loads but at least trying.Now he eats mostly cereals and fruit and biscuits.

 

The question about his dads,when he goes he is on his own so his brothers are never there when he eats at his dads.In fact thinking about it when he ate with his dad when we lived together it would also be just him and his dad.The spaghetti is prepared the same in fact the mince we have is cooked by his dad and we freeze it,again he went through a stage of eating this when at home but this stopped about 5 months back.Generally he will have one cooked meal a week,the rest of the time its cereals,or omlette(plain)

 

I dont worry about him being skinny,all my boys are very skinny,so is there dad even though he eats loads.My worry is its clear he is not getting vitamins,he has very dry skin(I have tried all vitamins chewy liquid etc he spits them out) and he its not just what he eats its te quantity,his younger brother its triple what he eats!!!

 

Thank you oxgirl.I have thought about those drinks I worked in a nursing home for 6 years so we use those frequently,I will be going to the GP at 4pm and see if they can give him some.He wont take the shakes though cause he hates milky drinks.He does say he is hungry occassionaly (maybe once a week)but he wont say what he wants andwont eat what I give him,its heartbreaking.Thank you so much for all your kind words.

[Mandapanda]

Hi

As I have mentioned before ,my soon to be 4 year old,son (Dan) hasnt been eating very well for three years.Yesterday I asked him 6 times what he wanted to eat,in the end I made him spaghetti ,which I know he eats at his dads,we all sat at the table and then he said he wanted pasta twists not spaghetti I refused to do this as I was tired and we were already eating 30 min later than usual.I refused to give in and left the spaghetti in front of him,he didnt fuss he just sat there and had his drink while we all ate.

 

Then this morning he got out of bed,went to the toilet and BANG he fainted on the floor,it took 10min to get him up,he didnt seem to be affected,just rubbed his head.I got him to eat his breakfast(which is usually the only time he eats)before taking him to nursery I gave him a snack which he didnt eat.He takes lunch to nursery,so I mentioned to the teacher that he fainted ad his leg was troubling him on the way over.So I will see if he has eaten when I fetch him.

 

I am just really worried.I have taken him to three different GP's,none of them can give me advice on what to do,just the usual,either give him what he wants dont talk about food,dont make it an issue etc etc!I have tried just giving him what we all eat it went on for three months and he didnt cave in just became weak,but he has never fainted.Not sure what to do,thinking of returning to the doctor tomorrow but not sure how far I will get as it hasnt helped before!

 

Hi justine1

 

My son never used to eat much (still doesn't really), but he also never went to the loo much either. He went through a phase of fainting and being sick. We spent a night in hospital, had all sorts of checks, and they never found out what was wrong (I was worried they were going to say he was malnourished!). The only thing they noticed was that he seemed to be constipated. My son had a huge problem with going to the toilet and would hold on for days even when he became desperate. I believe it probably was the constipation making him faint.

 

Of course, not eating could make him faint, but I found it was amazing how little food my son could survive on (and still need to do a poo on occasions). Fainting can also be caused by pain, or by panic attacks.

 

Best wishes

[baddad]

Hi again Justine -

 

From your reply to my original post there does seem to be a major connection between dad and food, and from the sounds of it one that was established very early on.

That's really, really difficult, because there's nothing specific you can do to change the situation...

You seem to have a fairly good relationship with 'dad' and that's got to be a good thing for all concerned If Dan is very influenced by dad (hey - just one letter difference: put them together and you've got a magician's flourish: Daddan!! ) you could maybe get dad to set him some 'targets'? Without making a big issue out of it, perhaps dad saying 'hey I bet you could eat my pasta at home with mummy too' and then maybe 'Hey, I bet you can't tell the difference between my pasta sauce and mum's pasta sauce' [and who's to say a little white lie here where both are the same batch for the first couple of attempts would be a bad thing... ] etc etc. Could maybe tie it in with some sort of 'reward scheme' too (but not sanctions at this tricky stage)...

One thing I think you're doing really brilliantly is looking at the whole 'dad' situation without feeling it's a negative judgement on you or anything daft like that Hope that doesn't sound patronising - it's certainly not meant to be...

Another thought - perhaps you could print off a list of your favourite/regular recipes that you and dad are likely to both make him. You could perhaps involve him in preparing and cooking them in both environments so he can oversee it! I think the biggest carrot you've got for dangling at the moment is the dad/food connection, and while that's something you quite understandably want to get away from in the long term it's something that can work to your advantage in the short term.

 

Very best with the fighting the good fight, and i hope you get to the bottom of the fainting thing soon if it's not just an odd one-off.

 

L&P

 

BD

[oxgirl]

I agree with BD about the dad connection. Could dad perhaps come to your house and sit with you and your lad while you're feeding him some days? He could encourage your lad to eat for you or he could cook with him. My lad has always been very particular about how his food is prepared. If he's accepted a new food that we've cooked then he's very rigid about it always being prepared in the same way. It's caused enormous problems when we've gone away and grandma and grandad have looked after him, as he wouldn't eat for them because they prepared the food slightly differently to how we did. Several years ago they had him for a week and all they could get him to eat was chips and Kit Kats. Could your ex make some meals for your lad for you to put in the freezer so they're the same at home as how he does it? Then, when he has accepted them, he could start to become a bit more flexible perhaps?

I know it seems impossible to believe at the moment, but it does get better. The other day me and my hubby were marvelling at the meal our lad had just eaten, ten years ago we never would have thought it possible, so there is hope.

 

~ Mel ~

[justine1]

Hi again Justine -

 

From your reply to my original post there does seem to be a major connection between dad and food, and from the sounds of it one that was established very early on.

That's really, really difficult, because there's nothing specific you can do to change the situation...

You seem to have a fairly good relationship with 'dad' and that's got to be a good thing for all concerned If Dan is very influenced by dad (hey - just one letter difference: put them together and you've got a magician's flourish: Daddan!! ) you could maybe get dad to set him some 'targets'? Without making a big issue out of it, perhaps dad saying 'hey I bet you could eat my pasta at home with mummy too' and then maybe 'Hey, I bet you can't tell the difference between my pasta sauce and mum's pasta sauce' [and who's to say a little white lie here where both are the same batch for the first couple of attempts would be a bad thing... ] etc etc. Could maybe tie it in with some sort of 'reward scheme' too (but not sanctions at this tricky stage)...

One thing I think you're doing really brilliantly is looking at the whole 'dad' situation without feeling it's a negative judgement on you or anything daft like that Hope that doesn't sound patronising - it's certainly not meant to be...

Another thought - perhaps you could print off a list of your favourite/regular recipes that you and dad are likely to both make him. You could perhaps involve him in preparing and cooking them in both environments so he can oversee it! I think the biggest carrot you've got for dangling at the moment is the dad/food connection, and while that's something you quite understandably want to get away from in the long term it's something that can work to your advantage in the short term.

 

Very best with the fighting the good fight, and i hope you get to the bottom of the fainting thing soon if it's not just an odd one-off.

 

L&P

 

BD

Thank you very much Baddad.I agree 100% I like the Daddan thing it would suit them,they are two peas in a pod I have four sons but Dan is by far closer to his dad,I dont remember his first word when he started walking etc because he did it all for his dad.It is painful at times especially when he says he doesnt want to live with me and its not just eating he communicates better with his dad and plays more than he does with me.Your words have been so very very encouraging and just what I wanted to hear!

 

Thank you Mandapanda and thank you again to oxgirl,its good to know I am not alone and very reassurring to know things get better.My Sam who is 6,also had problems eating but he never refused to eat,he would just eat a slight alternative to what we had,Dan is much worse,but even Sam has become much better over the years especially when he started school full time.

 

Well,when I fetched Dan from school his teacher had managed to "play a game" with him by getting him to feed a toy horse,"one bite of apple for Dan one bite for the horse" he ended up eaing ALL his lunch,even sanwiches which he has NEVER eaten,all I could do is cry It was just so wonderful,they have taken lots of pictures of him and "Ben the horse".I took him to the GP anyway as we had an appt,I have been told to bring him back in 4 weeks time,they are going to review the situation every month and see at action to take.He believes the fainting was due to an infection,he often gets tonsilitis,but he said its clearing so to give him calpol four times a day for three days.

 

Thank you again everyone,I feel so much positive

[baddad]

Well,when I fetched Dan from school his teacher had managed to "play a game" with him by getting him to feed a toy horse,"one bite of apple for Dan one bite for the horse" he ended up eaing ALL his lunch,even sanwiches which he has NEVER eaten,all I could do is cry It was just so wonderful,they have taken lots of pictures of him and "Ben the horse".

Thank you again everyone,I feel so much positive

 

Well I've got a Ben that eats like a horse, and half an apple would never satisfy him!

A round of sarnies too, eh? What a waste of a good worry last night was, then!

Hope he manages some tea tonight (if not still full up) and that the doc gets to the bottom of his faint.

Big thumbs to both of you and one of these to Dan for sharing his lunch with Ben The Horse and for eating his samwidges

 

L&P

 

BD

[JsMum]

He believes the fainting was due to an infection,he often gets tonsilitis,but he said its clearing so to give him calpol four times a day for three days.could the reacurring tonsilitis have any effects on his appitite, with pain fluctuating, it could be that when the pain isnt too bad he can eat agian, what I had to do with J as he is underweight, we wrote a diary, and I think a member here has also pointed to constipation, this is something J has had problems with too, which can cause a lot of problems with the digestive and apitite cycle.

 

Anyway just wondered if his infection/tosilitis has any thing to do with his eating habbits too.

 

Glad that he ate his lunch, he must of been very hungry bless him.

 

My son too goes throw stages like this, wont eat for weeks then all of a sudden he clears my fridge and coubards out, usually when he is having a growing spurt, even though he is very thin, he is tall, so at least he is growing.

 

There has been great replies and ideas too.

 

JsMumxx

Edited January 20, 2010 by JsMum

[justine1]

He believes the fainting was due to an infection,he often gets tonsilitis,but he said its clearing so to give him calpol four times a day for three days.could the reacurring tonsilitis have any effects on his appitite, with pain fluctuating, it could be that when the pain isnt too bad he can eat agian, what I had to do with J as he is underweight, we wrote a diary, and I think a member here has also pointed to constipation, this is something J has had problems with too, which can cause a lot of problems with the digestive and apitite cycle.

 

Anyway just wondered if his infection/tosilitis has any thing to do with his eating habbits too.

 

Glad that he ate his lunch, he must of been very hungry bless him.

 

My son too goes throw stages like this, wont eat for weeks then all of a sudden he clears my fridge and coubards out, usually when he is having a growing spurt, even though he is very thin, he is tall, so at least he is growing.

 

There has been great replies and ideas too.

 

JsMumxx

Hi Js mum

Thank you for the reply.He has problems with eating all the time regardless of wether he is ill or not but you are right its definatley more "severe" when he has tonsilitis,he also gets more irratable.He has had it four times in a year and wondering when the GP's will decide he needs them removed,its clear they are causing problems,I even believe it may be the cause of some of his speech problems as he sounds like he has flu all the time when he talks. I have just started a diary of what he is eating so I can take it along to his next appt at the GP.He has eaten well at school again but still refusing his evening meal.

 

Dan has absolutley no problem with bowel movements,he does go every second day,sometimes every day,I think its because he eats very little "junk foods" and eats lots of fruit especially apples,he also drinks water four times a day along with his juice.He has been constipated twice once about a month after I left his dad and then again when I did the 3 month "experiment" that I mentioned above,and it was awful he would cry so much from the pain I managed to get him lactulose.His brother Sam (AS) had serious constipation up until two years ago,when he started to eat a more varied diet.

 

The GP also advised that it is about quality rather than quantity,so its best to refuse biscuits,chocolates and anything sweet,this is fine the only sweet things he likes are those animal biscuits and kit kats.He does like syrup with his pancakes and has started eating it on bread for school,the school also introduced him to chocolate spread so he has started eating it on toast,problem is thats all he wants now.He hasnever been fond of bread so I am glad he is eating it but would love for him to eat some chicken or meat(which he hasnt eaten for over 19months!)

 

Thank you all again I am sure I will get there in the end!

[NobbyNobbs]

have you tried giving him quorn rather than meat? it has a much more uniform texture and taste but is still very high in protein. when i was vegetarian i loved it because no matter what recipe it was, it always felt the same in my mouth.