School Trip?

[LoubyLou]

Hi,

 

DS's school have 2 trips coming up - one residential (hehe) and one day-out. Particularly worried about the day trip, as it's a city visit & a very long day. He doesn't have a particular friend & isn't good at voicing difficulties so we're really worried about how he'll cope. He's been on plenty of trips before but has been very unwell with severe anxiety this year & has new 'out&about' phobias, & may run off if he comes across any of these. Neither of us can go along with them. We've paid the deposit to give us thinking time but are seriously thinking about taking time off work to take him somewhere else.

 

I don't think he'll go on the residential but we'll try - the place seems very good with AS/ASD. Really helpful teacher has said he can have his own room, though bullying has been a real issue. We may try to visit first & see, also try a night at grandparents, even he just goes for a short time it would still be good.

 

Any thoughts?! Or experiences??

 

Thank you!!

[Sally44]

Is there time before the day trip for your son to be taught how to use some visual signs that can be clipped onto his trousers? These could include 'help' sign, 'toilet' sign etc. He should be taught how to use them in school. My son used them for a while and it helped. My son is verbal, but like most he tends to lose the ability to communicate verbally when he is anxious or stressed. When he was taught explicitly how to use the sign and who to give it to he did use it. Now he can say when he is upset about something.

 

My son did not go on a residential trip when he was 2. He stayed the day and I collected him in the evening. We also visited beforehand so he knew what it was like. TBH he threw a mightly tantrum when I took him home because he wanted to sleep over like the rest of the children. But at that stage the school were not confident they could meet his needs and I didn't know which way it would go. It could have been a success, or a failure. And my son has remembered the fact that he could not stay overnight and still gets upset when he thinks about it. However he is now in cubs and I have promised him that he can camp out with them in May.

 

That's probably not helped alot! Could your son try sleeping over at another house to see how he copes eg. with grandparents or aunt/uncle??

[chris54]

I think it really comes down to how confidant you are that the staff who go on the trip with your son will take care of his needs. From our own experience, the staff at the school all know and understand my son to varying degrees, what I have done in the past is highlight any thing that I think may be a problem on school trips etc and the school have always been happy to listen.

I know that we are lucky to have this relationship with the school.

Edited February 14, 2010 by chris54

[LoubyLou]

I think it really comes down to how confidant you are that the staff who go on the trip with your son will take care of his needs. From our own experience, the staff at the school all know and understand my son to varying degrees, what I have done in the past is highlight any thing that I think may be a problem on school trips etc and the school have always been happy to listen.

I know that we are lucky to have this relationship with the school.

Ah, thank you both so much,

 

We don't have the relationships that we'd like at the moment with the school, however we'll keep on trying... the teacher who's arranging this trip has been absolutely brilliant, has really sorted out some bullying after years of it 'plodding on' & has been really kind & supportive to DS. I'm not sure how much training/background he has but am impressed so far. He did advise that we visit the place, so maybe we'll be able to do that (quite a long journey though) - the people who run it sound very clued up, so I'm not worried about that. Just more worried about other children - ie that he'd need some close supervision. I think 2 teachers will be going, probably the main class teacher. Not sure what they'll do if they don't go, perhaps go with the younger children (2 years below) which I think would also be a difficult change....

 

LOL,

 

LoubyLou

[LoubyLou]

Hi Sally,

 

The thing that I really admire is that you tried!!! Even a day is better than not going at all - perhaps it will help your son for future trips? What did he do in school for the rest of the week - did he cope with this being different? It's so GREAT that he wants to go camping with the cubs! Mine is in Boys Brigade & has refused to even try any of the camps or sleep-overs, though to be fair he doesn't know any of the other boys apart from going there as it's out of our area - the leaders have been amazing with him though. The summmer camp is in a beautiful area right next to where we go on holiday too!

 

The visual signs do sound great. I managed to get agreement for some to be used in school, put them on favourite colour keyring.....& they sit on the bottom of his bag, he's never used them. But you're right he's never really been 'taught' how to use them in situ. Perhaps we should try them around the house first. We're trying hard to get some language/communication therapy - I'm sure this would REALLY help, especially if they could be persuaded to see him in school. I think that's a really good description of how it is when mine are stressed re communication!, thank you.

 

Very Best Wishes,

 

LoubyLou

 

 

 

 

 

Is there time before the day trip for your son to be taught how to use some visual signs that can be clipped onto his trousers? These could include 'help' sign, 'toilet' sign etc. He should be taught how to use them in school. My son used them for a while and it helped. My son is verbal, but like most he tends to lose the ability to communicate verbally when he is anxious or stressed. When he was taught explicitly how to use the sign and who to give it to he did use it. Now he can say when he is upset about something.

 

My son did not go on a residential trip when he was 2. He stayed the day and I collected him in the evening. We also visited beforehand so he knew what it was like. TBH he threw a mightly tantrum when I took him home because he wanted to sleep over like the rest of the children. But at that stage the school were not confident they could meet his needs and I didn't know which way it would go. It could have been a success, or a failure. And my son has remembered the fact that he could not stay overnight and still gets upset when he thinks about it. However he is now in cubs and I have promised him that he can camp out with them in May.

 

That's probably not helped alot! Could your son try sleeping over at another house to see how he copes eg. with grandparents or aunt/uncle??

 

[Snikom]

Hi Sally,

 

The thing that I really admire is that you tried!!! Even a day is better than not going at all - perhaps it will help your son for future trips? What did he do in school for the rest of the week - did he cope with this being different? It's so GREAT that he wants to go camping with the cubs! Mine is in Boys Brigade & has refused to even try any of the camps or sleep-overs, though to be fair he doesn't know any of the other boys apart from going there as it's out of our area - the leaders have been amazing with him though. The summmer camp is in a beautiful area right next to where we go on holiday too!

 

The visual signs do sound great. I managed to get agreement for some to be used in school, put them on favourite colour keyring.....& they sit on the bottom of his bag, he's never used them. But you're right he's never really been 'taught' how to use them in situ. Perhaps we should try them around the house first. We're trying hard to get some language/communication therapy - I'm sure this would REALLY help, especially if they could be persuaded to see him in school. I think that's a really good description of how it is when mine are stressed re communication!, thank you.

 

Very Best Wishes,

 

LoubyLou

 

My son did PGL last year (year 6 mainstream school trip).

 

He coped well his 1-1 was there and they were very careful about who he shared a room with etc. He was very anxious beforehand but on the whole coped well, he hates school trips anyway so stress was always going to be high.

 

We had as a back up plan that I would collect him and return him in the morning if he couldn't handle the less structured evening activities but my services were never called on.

 

I sent him with key rings for each day with all the different activities on, the teacher said she walked in the room one morning and all the boys in his room were working out there day.

 

He did have a few incidents but nothing major. The only sad bit for him was that they made CD's for all the children with all the photos of there groups and rather than looking at it and remembering all the good things it just brought back all the times he had been stressed and really upset him

[lil_me]

I was anxious when my youngest went to cub camp for the first time but he coped amazingly well. The main issue was noone to check he was changing his clothes, this was changed the next time he went. This time I am going. If you aren't confident and can't go yourself, maybe you could ask a relative or a support worker to go?

[Annea]

the school need to make sure that your son is safe first and foremost, and that he gets as much out of the trip as any NT child or as nearas. (I think it something like anything that can be put in place reasonably, and can be then should be~)

 

The basis of our discimination tribunal was two school trips with a transport problem thrown in for good measure.

 

The school was slammed for not putting in the right support to allow her to go.

 

Ultimately, you HAVE to know that your child will be safe, if the school is able to put in 1-1 support and its deemed necessary, then it should happen.

 

Elizabeth

 

www.realas.co.uk

[peggy]

Hi all,

 

Im new to this site, I have a 11 year old son recently diagnoised with ASD. My son goes to a mainstream school he has a statement and has 2 support workers, I have been told he can not go on school trips unless accompanied by a parent as they class him as a risk! (not sure if this legal or not). The last trip i agreed to go but the day before the outing he was excluded for an outburst (which in my view could have been prevented as he asked his teacher for help with work and her answer was if you are not going to do what you are told leave the classroom!) in which he threw a board rubber in her direction but not at her. This he was excluded for 2 days. The school says they need to take 2 members of staff for him but could only afford to take 1, although he has 2 support workers and another staff member offered to go who my son gets on with and the head said no.

 

In my opinion they exluded him to cover themselves as they did not want to take him, because recently he threw a knife and fork at his teacher and these hit her and they rang me to go to the school to speak to him as they didnt want to go down the exclusion route (which i would have thought they would have through severity of incident).

[Sally44]

Hi Sally,

 

The thing that I really admire is that you tried!!! Even a day is better than not going at all - perhaps it will help your son for future trips? What did he do in school for the rest of the week - did he cope with this being different? It's so GREAT that he wants to go camping with the cubs! Mine is in Boys Brigade & has refused to even try any of the camps or sleep-overs, though to be fair he doesn't know any of the other boys apart from going there as it's out of our area - the leaders have been amazing with him though. The summmer camp is in a beautiful area right next to where we go on holiday too!

 

The visual signs do sound great. I managed to get agreement for some to be used in school, put them on favourite colour keyring.....& they sit on the bottom of his bag, he's never used them. But you're right he's never really been 'taught' how to use them in situ. Perhaps we should try them around the house first. We're trying hard to get some language/communication therapy - I'm sure this would REALLY help, especially if they could be persuaded to see him in school. I think that's a really good description of how it is when mine are stressed re communication!, thank you.

 

Very Best Wishes,

 

LoubyLou

 

Staff/professionals have to go right back to the beginning and not assume he has any skills unless they have been consistently demonstrated to different people in different environments. My son had to be taught to use the 'help' card by it being put in his hand and a TA taking him to the person he had to give the card to and placing my sons hand + card into the other persons hand whilst saying 'help'. The person given the card had to reply "XXX, you want help", and would go with my son to find out what he needed help with. My son can talk, not brilliantly, but he is not non-verbal. But he never even thought about asking for help. It never entered his mind, and he definately would not have known how to ask for help. What he did use to do was sit on the floor and say "I need a little help here". But he was not saying it to anyone in particular and so was ignored. He had to be shown that the 'help' has to be requested from a particular person, and because he often does not address anyone when he talks he needed to 'give the card' to get the attention of the other person. It did not take very long for him to pick this up. But it needed to be taught, it was not happening naturally.

My son's camping was successful. He did need an adult with him most of the time, but he had a go at everything.

 

There is no point forcing the issue if you are sure your son will not want to do something or will not cope. But try something simplier and similar at home and see where the process is breaking down.

 

For the keyring and symbol thing in school he needs to be taught one symbol at a time. He needs to be taught how to use it by one person and taught one person to use it with. When he has mastered that then you teach him to use it with another person etc and slowly expand the skill until he can use the symbol in any environment (classroom, playground, dinnerhall etc) and with any adult (teacher, TA, dinnerlady, school office etc). Then replace the symbol with the word 'help'. But the child may need to learn 'how to get an adults attention'. My son had to learn to say 'Excuse me', because he never remembers anyones name and it was inappropriate to walk up to an adult and say 'help'. So he learnt to go up to an adult and say "excluse me, I need help".

 

It is very small steps, and they must not move onto the next stage until they are definate that he has mastered the first stage.

 

Has your son been seen by a speech therapist and have they assessed his speech and communication and social interaction skills? If not, then that is the professional you need to ask school to come and see him. And you can request the SALT department to send someone experienced in speech disorders and autism.

 

[LoubyLou]

Staff/professionals have to go right back to the beginning and not assume he has any skills unless they have been consistently demonstrated to different people in different environments. My son had to be taught to use the 'help' card by it being put in his hand and a TA taking him to the person he had to give the card to and placing my sons hand + card into the other persons hand whilst saying 'help'. The person given the card had to reply "XXX, you want help", and would go with my son to find out what he needed help with. My son can talk, not brilliantly, but he is not non-verbal. But he never even thought about asking for help. It never entered his mind, and he definately would not have known how to ask for help. What he did use to do was sit on the floor and say "I need a little help here". But he was not saying it to anyone in particular and so was ignored. He had to be shown that the 'help' has to be requested from a particular person, and because he often does not address anyone when he talks he needed to 'give the card' to get the attention of the other person. It did not take very long for him to pick this up. But it needed to be taught, it was not happening naturally.

My son's camping was successful. He did need an adult with him most of the time, but he had a go at everything.

 

There is no point forcing the issue if you are sure your son will not want to do something or will not cope. But try something simplier and similar at home and see where the process is breaking down.

 

For the keyring and symbol thing in school he needs to be taught one symbol at a time. He needs to be taught how to use it by one person and taught one person to use it with. When he has mastered that then you teach him to use it with another person etc and slowly expand the skill until he can use the symbol in any environment (classroom, playground, dinnerhall etc) and with any adult (teacher, TA, dinnerlady, school office etc). Then replace the symbol with the word 'help'. But the child may need to learn 'how to get an adults attention'. My son had to learn to say 'Excuse me', because he never remembers anyones name and it was inappropriate to walk up to an adult and say 'help'. So he learnt to go up to an adult and say "excluse me, I need help".

 

It is very small steps, and they must not move onto the next stage until they are definate that he has mastered the first stage.

 

Has your son been seen by a speech therapist and have they assessed his speech and communication and social interaction skills? If not, then that is the professional you need to ask school to come and see him. And you can request the SALT department to send someone experienced in speech disorders and autism.

 

 

Hi Kilimunjaro,

 

Thank you so much - it's really good to hear a breakdown of how this has actually worked, and I think you are absolutely right to say that staff should assume no skill in that area until they're consistently demonstrated in different settings. I think because DS is quite but "bright" (whatever that one means ) staff do assume that he's far more able than he is. His social language skills do seem to be behind other AS children his age that we've met. He's had two SALT assessments each giving lists of needs, so he has a long list of needs, but they don't make recommendations here because there isn't the provision. He has to wait to secondary school to have SaLT access, which I'm very sad about (though delighted and thankful that he will have it there!). I've bought the 'Socially Speaking' book & will try to go through that with him myself (when we've finished the Tony Attwood anxiety book!) - I know it would come much better from a trained professional and would just like the chance to be 'mum', and support at home what other professionals are doing, oh well. We're not getting any speech & language support at the mo even though we've asked at least 3 times & it's erm in his statement...but if I start talking about that hot potato I may just explode so had better not.

 

It's now the residential trip that's causing the problem as school have changed their minds on the room-sharing. All I can think is that an adult had been harassed (he's had a lot of problems with bullying, but it's not so bad at the moment) by other adults the last thing they'd want to do would be to share a small room with them behind closed doors, unable to cope with this or ask for help. It's potty to me when I think about it this way for anyone even to try to persuade him in this. Also the whole someone to look after him idea has been dropped by school, we've made other suggestions which are refused. I know it's probably discrimination but am in despair about what we can do about it.

 

 

[Sally44]

Do you have a copy of the SEN Code of Practice? If not you can download one from this site.

I'm not sure of the truth of what you have been told. If a child has a Special Educational Need it should be met. If the school/LEA does not have that provision that is not an excuse.

What stage of SEN is your child at eg. School Action, or School Action Plus?

I would advise that you speak with IPSEA about this to see what you can do. Waiting until secondary school is no solution. All professionals agree that the younger the child begins any therapy the better the outcome. If your son is struggling now it will only get worse as demands on speech/communication/social interaction increase as they get older.

 

The only SEN document that is legally binding is a Statement. By that I mean that on school action plus, if the SALT is off sick for a year then your son may not see any SALT for that length of time. If he has SALT input specified in a Statement eg. weekly therapy, then that has to be fulfilled. If the SALT becomes sick another SALT has to be brought in to deliver the SALT programme.

 

It maybe that you need to request an assessment towards a Statement. That would require all the LEA to ask professionals to assess your son and produce reports that should identify all his needs and make recommendations on how those should be met in school. Many times LEA/NHS reports do not make specific recommendations. That is contrary to the Code of Practice which states that all input should be quantified in terms of hours of support and staffing arrangements ie. which members of staff and/or professionals do what, how often, and for how long.

 

We had to go to tribunal for my son, but the outcome is that he gets weekly 1:1 therapy from a speech therapist experienced in both speech disorders and autism. That programme is then practised daily in school.

[LoubyLou]

Do you have a copy of the SEN Code of Practice? If not you can download one from this site.

I'm not sure of the truth of what you have been told. If a child has a Special Educational Need it should be met. If the school/LEA does not have that provision that is not an excuse.

What stage of SEN is your child at eg. School Action, or School Action Plus?

I would advise that you speak with IPSEA about this to see what you can do. Waiting until secondary school is no solution. All professionals agree that the younger the child begins any therapy the better the outcome. If your son is struggling now it will only get worse as demands on speech/communication/social interaction increase as they get older.

 

The only SEN document that is legally binding is a Statement. By that I mean that on school action plus, if the SALT is off sick for a year then your son may not see any SALT for that length of time. If he has SALT input specified in a Statement eg. weekly therapy, then that has to be fulfilled. If the SALT becomes sick another SALT has to be brought in to deliver the SALT programme.

 

It maybe that you need to request an assessment towards a Statement. That would require all the LEA to ask professionals to assess your son and produce reports that should identify all his needs and make recommendations on how those should be met in school. Many times LEA/NHS reports do not make specific recommendations. That is contrary to the Code of Practice which states that all input should be quantified in terms of hours of support and staffing arrangements ie. which members of staff and/or professionals do what, how often, and for how long.

 

We had to go to tribunal for my son, but the outcome is that he gets weekly 1:1 therapy from a speech therapist experienced in both speech disorders and autism. That programme is then practised daily in school.

 

Hello, thank you very much, yes My DS received his statement a few weeks before the Easter hols, so quite recent. It was a big fight for it, and in my opinion it is vague, hence we're (ok that's just me!) appealing it, though we're very happy with the school he's going to. Yes it certainly should be quantified, and it isn't - the number of hours required has never been even mentioned, at present it is a block of money ('though where that's going...), anyway yes you're right I think this isn't legal. The main reason we're appealing is over speech therapy, we'll have to get a private assessment that actually makes recommendations (rather than the long list of language needs at the moment). He does need it now, I've got a Cerebra voucher which we can use for Johansen therapy 'though as yet I haven't found anyone nearby who can see him for 'ordinary' autism-type speech therapy, despite looking hard... Anyway it sounds like you and your son are doing extremely!!, What a battle!! What a relief that he has the speech therapy.

 

Very Best Wishes,

 

GreenTed

[davers79]

Hi,

 

DS's school have 2 trips coming up - one residential (hehe) and one day-out. Particularly worried about the day trip, as it's a city visit & a very long day. He doesn't have a particular friend & isn't good at voicing difficulties so we're really worried about how he'll cope. He's been on plenty of trips before but has been very unwell with severe anxiety this year & has new 'out&about' phobias, & may run off if he comes across any of these. Neither of us can go along with them. We've paid the deposit to give us thinking time but are seriously thinking about taking time off work to take him somewhere else.

 

I don't think he'll go on the residential but we'll try - the place seems very good with AS/ASD. Really helpful teacher has said he can have his own room, though bullying has been a real issue. We may try to visit first & see, also try a night at grandparents, even he just goes for a short time it would still be good.

 

Any thoughts?! Or experiences??

 

Thank you!!

 

Hi Loubylou

I had massive concerns about my DD (in year 6 and she will be 11 in a couple of weeks) going on her school trip but I'm pleased (& proud !!) to report she did fantastically well.

They went to Normandy in France, Monday to Friday this week and did all sorts of things like sailing and walking accross the quick-sands (with a guide!) to Mont St Michel. I really wasn't sure how she would cope with any of this, the different environment, change of routine etc but she was fine .

They got home late last night and DD is sooooooo tired today - shes hardly moved off the sofa this afternoon!

I'm going to have a chat with her teacher soon as see how she reakons she coped but I don't think there were any major problems otherwise the teacher would have said last night when we picked her up.

In a way shes coped so well with it all, today its made me question whether I'm mad thinking there is a problem .... but I know there is really just suprised shes settled down so quickly afterwards.

The teachers made sure she was in a bedroom with the right people who wouldn't stress her out too much and she had a room next door to her teacher. Also she was put in a group with her class teacher and not just a helper who didn't know her.

I'm a proud mummy today

Claire