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getting him out of the house/conversations with our seven year old

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Hope the holidays are not dragging on too much.

 

K seems to be getting a bit more intolerant about going out and wondered if there are any tips or tricks that people know of (ones that we have not used) in trying to coax him out of the house. He is becoming weather dependent,even though we always carry an umbrella)and he insists we carry this. I show him that i put the fold up umbrella in my bag. Today i said to him about meeting daddy from work, and he blatently refused, his reason was ,....'its not summer'. I asked him to explain what he meant and he said its just not a nice day and i don't want to go and see him. I offered his favourite chocolate if he came out with me and he said that was not a good enough reason to go, it wasn't even rainining. He never said anything about the park or playing, he is just happy to run up and down the living room, and today he has been drinking a lot.

 

I am having to increase his dose of movicol and wondered if this could be the reason, as he had a bad day yesterday and i had to keep changing his pants but he has not said anything about his toileting. He is not suffering with the runs and is still constipated.

 

Just wish professionals could hear the stuff we hear, we have wrote down things he says in a diary. If anyone has any ideas about helping him to cope outside the house and also getting him back to school i would be grateful. Sorry but don't have the energy to take on two asd children today. Eldest one has had a day off today and has just sat gaming all day.

 

many thanks

 

sarni :unsure:

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>:D<<'> :wallbash:

 

 

been there done it many times for many weeks during the school holidays with my son especialy when he was younger........he would refuse to leave the house and if i forced the issue it wasnt worth the hassel because hed kick of go wild and it just made it hell so id sit in the home all day long going stir crazy with him controlling every aspect of my day and me conforming for fear of a meltdown.It drove me insane.

 

has hes got older things have greatly improved hes now 16 although sometimes he just refuses to leave and like one of youre kids he games all day long and refuses to get dressed........i just leave him to it and go out on my own........im lucky because he can be left to his own defices for short periods hooked up to xbox with a pile of sandwiches and a drink in the fridge..............i know it sounds like im a rotton mum but hes happy enough and i get out..........eventually he gets utterly fed up with his indoor lifestyle and gets dressed and anounces hes bored and i strike whilst the irons hot and out we go together where he proceeds to do me nutt in because all he wants to do his eat his favourite crisps visit the game shop and then go home............... :wallbash::wallbash:

 

 

there was never any reason as to why my son didnt like leaving the homestead,i guess he just found it stressfull,i used to on occasions shove earplugs in his ears to minamise noise or we spent donkeys years with him carting round a favourite soft toy to help him.

 

 

My son also went through a stage when younger of being constapated with anal leakage and was on movicol constantly soiled his underwear ,refused to use the loo you name it he did it........take comfort in the fact he also grew out of this and now uses the toilet is no longer constapated and is in fact a regular toilet blocker............

 

Im just praying now for back to school on monday coz hes driveing me bloomeing nutts.............lol

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Maybe you should try an 'either or'... we either do this or we do that, but we are going out.

The other thing I'd try is just making sure that staying in is not a 'nice' option - i.e. whatever he likes to do indoors he cannot do for the amount of time that you would have been out.

The thing is, he is just a child - he should not be telling the adults when they won't and will be going out of the house. that should be the adults decision, and if he doesn't like it he can lump it. Yes, that will mean dealing with tantrums and arguments etc etc, but that's short term (honestly, if you do it and stick to your guns it will be short-term once he learns that the situation is non-negotiable) wheras him dictating your movements will be ling term, and is a completely inappopriate role-reversal in the first place.

 

Hope that helps

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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Maybe you should try an 'either or'... we either do this or we do that, but we are going out.

The other thing I'd try is just making sure that staying in is not a 'nice' option - i.e. whatever he likes to do indoors he cannot do for the amount of time that you would have been out.

The thing is, he is just a child - he should not be telling the adults when they won't and will be going out of the house. that should be the adults decision, and if he doesn't like it he can lump it. Yes, that will mean dealing with tantrums and arguments etc etc, but that's short term (honestly, if you do it and stick to your guns it will be short-term once he learns that the situation is non-negotiable) wheras him dictating your movements will be ling term, and is a completely inappopriate role-reversal in the first place.

 

Hope that helps

 

L&P

 

BD :D

Baddad is right.My son used to be the same,hated going out and it was a nightmare when we did go out.He would be everywhere and throwing tantrums.He would also walk one way and not back home again,so I had to wait 15min at a time at varioue intervals along the journey.

 

Now he loves going out and has even started going with my eldest to the corner shop.He is not 100% in that he does get bored,he does sit in the middle of the shopping isles and he does ask for everything thats on special - just because its on special not because he wants or needs it :whistle:

but he does not moan much and I have learnt to be much more organised going when he has had enough to eat and when he has just the right amount of energy,remembering to take a drink and a snack for the journey back home as he does get hungry quickly it also is a good distraction method.

 

I dont know what to suggest when he refuses because of the weather other than to say,when he is older and on his own and he needs mmilk and bread or needs to be at work he will have to go regardless of the weather so he is going to have to get used to it,unless he moves to another country with hardly any rainfall :lol:

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K has weather issues. she whinges and moans constantly about the sun, wind, rain, cold and anything else she can think of. we now carry sunglasses for her, and she generally has a hooded top and if she complains about the wind we put that up and she stops. not ideal as i didn't want to be dependant on 'things' but we are now turning it round to her responsibility. if she complains its too sunny we now respond with 'well you should have brought your glasses' as at this point i expect her to start organising her own life. if i know she'll need them i do try to remember but ultimately i've placed it all on her which stops her going on at me.

 

as for leaving the house, we had this one too. if she refused she was placed on time out until she put her shoes on and cooperated. if she sat on time out for 2 hours with her shoes in front of her that was fine, but she wasn't getting off time out and doing anything else until she cooperated. if we missed the window to go out and do whatever it was, we still went for a short but very brisk walk somewhere so that she still had to go out and explained that she had missed the fun! it took about 4 months but she now knows not to bother. she'll still whinge and complain, but does it while putting her shoes on!

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if only it was that easy as to just insist youre going out and make the child go............none of us would ever of had a problem.

 

I used to desperately try to get my son out the door..............but it was too stressfull for him ...........why would you want to see youre child screaming and shouting and carrying on in obvious distress.............to us Nts we might think oh whats all the fuss about nothing to them its a big deal and it may not be about the weather K doesnt want to go out because maybe thats just something he uses to attempt to give reason to something he doesnt understand maybe he just feels utter fear at leaving the house and doesnt understand why or have the vocabulary to explaine.

 

My son hated things like traffic noise,hated busy places,hated the fact sometimes the pavement was tarmac and other times it was paveing stones hed refuse to move from one surface to another.........when he did go out there were that many rituals involved in the process of walking that hed to compleate a ten minute journey would take an hour at times everyone involved was desperate and unhappy...........just so not worth it.

 

he came round in the end in his own time............yes were the parents and shouldnt be dictated to but i for one dont think of it like that i think of it has respecting a difference i cant undertand and he cant explaine so i go with it.............

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if only it was that easy as to just insist youre going out and make the child go............none of us would ever of had a problem.

 

I used to desperately try to get my son out the door..............but it was too stressfull for him ...........why would you want to see youre child screaming and shouting and carrying on in obvious distress

 

Hi paula -

sorry, i don't really accept that parents who did not let their children dictate their movements 'wanted to see their children screaming and shouting and carrying on in obvious distress'. I think they probably just interpreted the behaviours they did see differently, and responded to them differently because they felt there was more at stake than just (to quote your first post) it 'not being worth the hassel'' with the better option being to go 'stir crazy'.

I think it is very easy when parents would rather take the easier option than putting up with the hassel to justify doing so by citing unreasonable pressure or demands on the child, but i don't think it is reasonable to do so because i don't think it solves any of the problems. In fact, i think it makes them worse, and instead of making the parent's or the child's life better it makes them both worse, often quite dramatically when, as the child develops with very strong 'control' issues, he/she becomes the physically stronger in the relationship.

Whenever I make that observation the response is 'but every child is different' - but i think that's a cop out too because it negates all responsibility from both parent and child, and simultaneously overlooks everything that evolution has taught about human and animal psychology and the natural roles of parent and child. Yes, every child is different - but so is every parent and it is completely unrealistic to assume that parents who successfully negotiate behavioural difficulties do so purely because their children are somehow more amenable to having their behaviour controlled. The reality is that more often than not it isn't the child's behaviour that dictates the results, but the responses to the behaviour, and while many will claim autism as a dispensation that, to my mind, is no more true than it is among the rest of the population where it is generally accepted that ineffective parenting is a significant factor in childhood behavioural issues. From 'teenage boot camp' to Jo wassname's 'extreme toddlers' what we generally see is that, regardless of age and/or (on the odd occasion that ADHD or autism is featured) disability children can adapt to the expectations placed on them if their are appropriately and consistently reinforced.

That's not a popular view, I know, and in all liklihood it will not sit comfortably with you, but TBH it doesn't sit comfortably with ME when it is suggested that managing my child's behaviours either implies an 'easier management job' (negating all of the effort made by me and my son)or systematic child abuse where real distress is ignored or overlooked.

 

L&P

 

BD

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If only it were so simple as work at it and you'll get there, and if you don't it's because you haven't worked hard enough.

 

Have to say my own son has dictated on this. It was a gradual process but when it got to the point of strapping him into a wheelchair in a Houdini harness I accepted that it was approaching cruelty to make it happen. Over an hour to achieve five minute walk was the final straw - it was putting my youngest child 'at risk' as I was unable to look after her and we had a very near miss. I won't compromise my other children's lives with this kind of battle of wills. So DS is given an option of staying at home. He is nearly an adult and should be able to express free will and a preference. School have exactly the same difficulties and approach as me - his risk assessment for going out starts with 'At risk of death to self or others - yes'.

 

In our own situation there is nothing to be gained and much to be lost. That doesn't mean that I don't challenge him or take him out of his comfort zone. It happens in controlled circumstances when I am able to give him one-to-one. Frankly it's something that is beyond toddler-taming and many hours of hard work has been put into devising appropriate strategies but if no motivator can be found then really you are doing it 'for the sake of it'.

 

There is nothing to say that in a few months it won't become easier again - children develop and mature and learn coping strategies all the time. Taking the pressure off yourself for a while is also a good idea - the decision is not irreversible.

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BADDAD

 

You are sounding like you are blameing inadequate parenting for childrens behaviour........... It kinda sounds like you saying if youve a probelm with youre autistic child refuseing to leave the home or haveing other difficulties then put youre foot down.......and if you wont then youre a bad parent and no wonder youre child wont do as you ask........Thats what its comeing across as like.

 

I remember my son haveing terrible days and he wouldnt even go to school...........hes attended a special school since he was 5.........the bus would arrive and me and the escort would be attempting to force him out the house with him screaming blue murder and kicking and shouting and clinging onto the drainpipe an utter nightmare ..........many a time when he was in one of those moods i would just keep him home..............id phone the school and say he was haveing a bad day............the next day hed be fine and go.What would i have acheived in forceing him out,in insisting the escort deal with him on a bus with 8 other asperger kids...........Does that make me a bad parent who hasnt a clue and cant take controll...........i dont beleive it does.

 

My son spent three years eating only sandwiches.........blankley refused to eat anything else should i have said tough luck you eat what i say or starve...........i would offer an alternative hed refuse to eat id give a sandwich...........he grew out of this also.

 

I know its each to his own parents like kids are all different..................but i beleive that theres no point trying to change the aspie mind set...........no amount of me saying you WILL DO THIS or THIS IS HOW YOU MUST BEHAVE.............is going to make him suddenly NT he is what he is and somewhere we meet a kinda of compromise and sometimes the NT way wins out depending on his mood and at other times you go with the aspie flow of things.

 

My son has all round moderate learning difficulties,he was born with bi lateral choanal atresia,and hes also asperger...........Things have not been easy from the second he was born and i for one take a little bit of a huff stropp at being told as a parent i take the easy way out because nothing so far in the 16 years ive parented him has been easy.

 

 

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What about reserching weather together, J was very obsessed with the weather, he loved tornadoes and hurracains but would become very fearful if it rainded asking if there is going to be a tornado, at school he couldnt stand the sound of the rain on the rooftops, he wouldnt wear coats so often got wet throw, even the HT agreed that when there was a rainstorm due the children became fractous and the atmosphere changed it was really strange how the kids behaviour changed with the changes in weather, a lot of the children in our area became fearful of rain because of the recent flooding that caused severe damage to their homes and schools, some are still not in their own home.

 

Me and J researched weather together, we looked how important the rain is, and though if you get too much it can cause distruction, but it also makes things grow and without water we wouldnt survive more than a day.

 

Social stories could be a good tool, contact your local autism outreach team who could assist you in making one.

 

J needs warnings he is going somewhere and then breaking down into little step targets.

 

We use visual pictures to illistrate each task.

 

Put it into a sequence as children on the spectrum need structure and formation to help process the information.

 

Have get out cards this is similair on class where they give a card to have a five min break.

 

With J in supermarkets J would become panicy and couldnt breath so we went outside in the fresh air for a breather, then when he recovered we went back in the supermarker even it was for five mins.

 

We obvously took it very slowly in the past and he was never pushed into something he simply couldnt cope with, we did it in stages.

 

Your son obvously has a fear of something when outside, this may be requiring cognitive behavioural therapy to help change his views on what fears he has.

 

I have forced my son out in the past and it ended up with him physically ill, requiring hospital treatment and assessment.

 

It has to be done sypathetically and patience.

 

We wouldnt force an adult out in similair situations if they had the same fears, it is no different with a child.

 

JsMumX

 

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BADDAD

 

You are sounding like you are blameing inadequate parenting for childrens behaviour........... It kinda sounds like you saying if youve a probelm with youre autistic child refuseing to leave the home or haveing other difficulties then put youre foot down.......and if you wont then youre a bad parent and no wonder youre child wont do as you ask........Thats what its comeing across as like.

 

No, I'm not blaming 'inadequate patrenting' for children's behaviour, but i do believe that inconsistent and ineffectual responses to bad behaviour can make the situation worse. I'm always confused by this 'bad parent' line that gets taken whenever I (or anyone else) says that: 'You're saying if the parent doesn't put their foot down they're a bad parent'... No, I'm not - I'm saying that parents can get it wrong. That's not being a 'bad parent' that's human error. The idea that a parent can't be wrong is an incredibly dangerous one, and there is no evidence whatsoever to back it up but plenty to suggest the opposite is true. I think any parent who lets a small child dictate their movements or behaviour is making a bad error of judgement, and any parent who allows that situation to become the norm is making an even bigger one. Often the parent isn't even aware of what they're doing (watch any programme like 'toddler taming' - they all write in and say 'I've tried everything, done this done that and nothing works', but when the 'expert' goes in it's perfectly clear that they haven't tried everything, or - more usually - have been inconsistent or ineffectual in the ways they have responded. Overwhelmingly the evidence is almost always that the parents - kind, loving, parents, not 'bad parents' - have 'got it wrong', and that when the right interventions/responses are put in place there's a change in the behaviour.

 

So the next thing is 'ah, but it's his/her autism - not him or her, but his/her autism', like there's some kind of outside control thing going on. You have said 'I believe there's no point trying to change the aspie mindset'. I don't believe there is an 'aspie mindset' - i believe that every 'aspie' is as individual as every NT, and i certainly don't agree with the idea that autism over-rides the possibility of a parent getting it 'wrong'. Why does 'autism' negate the influence of perfectly natural human responses - like 'control' and selfishness and ignorance (in the sense of 'not knowing', not 'wilfiul ignorance', which i believe is something practiced far more often by the adults in these situations than the children) on behavioural dynamics? Again, I don't think it does. I think it can complicate things, and I think with severely autistic people those complications can be so massive that they're almost impossible to circumnavigate, but I think, increasingly, the effects of autism at its most disabling are projected onto people who are perfectly capable of modifying their behaviours. Sometimes that's because expectations are lowered on assumptions that they are 'incapable' and the rules relaxed, sometimes it's because it's easier to ignore the behaviours and sometimes it's because even though the person can compromise they are unwilling to make those compromises or have something to gain from not making them.

 

'But every child is different'. Yes, every child is different, but so - as I've pointed out - is every parent. The assumption that's made, though, is almost always that it is the child's 'difference' that creates the problems. The parent's 'difference' couldn't possibly be a contributory factor. Sadly, the reality is that more often than not when these assumptions are really challenged the results indicate that the children are 'less' different while the differences in parenting styles vary significantly. We see it on these forums repeatedly - and on any other forum like this: A parent posts 'my child does this, what can I do to stop it?'. There'll be several replies saying 'oh my kid does that and i've learned you just have to ignore it', while some say 'my child used to do that but now doesn't and this is what we did'... The parents who have resolved the problems are invariably accused of being judgemental while the parents who haven't helped their children are applauded for offering 'reassurance'. At its worst, as in this case, the parents who have resolved such issues are demonised as being 'abusive'

(why would you want to see youre child screaming and shouting and carrying on in obvious distress)
and the children who have learned to control their behaviour have their effort and hardwork degraded by the catch all assumption that they were somehow more amenable or suggestable. It wasn't 'easier' with my son, and he hasn't got a 'less autistic mindset' and he's certainly not abused or unhappy... so take those things out of the equation and what are you left with?

 

My son has all round moderate learning difficulties,he was born with bi lateral choanal atresia,and hes also asperger...........Things have not been easy from the second he was born and i for one take a little bit of a huff stropp at being told as a parent i take the easy way out because nothing so far in the 16 years ive parented him has been easy.

 

My son has autism, adhd & dyspraxia and the learning problems associated with attention deficit, poor motor control and compromised social/interactional understanding... Things have not been easy from the second he was born and i for one take a little bit of a huff stropp at being told as a parent that his behavioural issues are greatly improved because I've abused him, or because he was an 'easier model' to work with, because nothing so far in the 12 years I've parented him has been easy.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

 

Jaded - i totally agree with you both about picking your battles and finding appropriate times to fight them. That's what I do.

Right - gotta rush as off to buy Ben new clothes - he's gone through the knees of every pair of jeans he owns again. He hates clothes shopping, but it's one of those things he has to 'lump'.

 

 

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I don't think it's helpful for this thread to descend into judgement and argument- as these threads very often do. Nobody here is an expert on parenting, or has the defintive answer on what is going to work for a child they've never met. At best , all we can do is describe what's worked for us, and suggest strategies.

 

Can we please get back to the original topic? Sawid posted for help and asked a specific question, which was this:

 

K seems to be getting a bit more intolerant about going out and wondered if there are any tips or tricks that people know of (ones that we have not used) in trying to coax him out of the house
.

 

K x

 

 

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Hello everyone,

 

 

Just wanted to thank people for the responses to my post yesterday. Not sure i agree with bagdads post as i did mention that the conversations with k and his reasons are strange and if i can't get to the bottom of why it is distressing him and he has difficultly explaining then we are both setting ourselves up for another battle, i wish it was simple as putting your foot down and being consistent. We all have to find what works, i don't think its giving in mentally i think it can depend on how physically strong you are for example, my OH cannot be strong as the stress and energy it takes out of you when you have arguements and constant frustration of explainning and lack of understanding (from both parties) causes the ms he has to flare up. I too am now suffering from regular severe palpitations that i have never suffered before and i have always been under some stress or other, they (the hospital) are to put a monitor on me for 24hours next week and then i have to have a cardio ultrasound. Scan my heart, to be honest it feels like pericarditis which is what my OH has had as the symptoms are similar.We are both around the age of 40 and we physically feel somedays like a 70 year old. These palpitations scare the sxxx out of me as my breath gets taken away and my heart goes ten to the dozen. I have to stop everything that i am doing.

 

Just wanted to make it clear that health complicates consistency and there are sometimes outside/physical factors beyond our control in life which makes things twice as difficult and impossible to be consistent and strong. You can't change something if its beyond your control . Just me coping with some lack of abilities (dyspraxia)is adding to the stress, so i will be in search of stress management courses via gp soon. Just want to see what the hospital say about my heart, (can it be fixed or is it permanently broken only joking now).

 

I will get to replying peoples post as there has been some brilliant advice to my original post.

 

 

Once again many thanks to your replies and support. I will always be sincerely grateful because i feel i am not alone anymore.

 

Best wishes

 

Sarni

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Baddad

 

Hats of to you well debated /argued :thumbs: each to his own as this shows............

 

 

 

 

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I don't think it's helpful for this thread to descend into judgement and argument- as these threads very often do. Nobody here is an expert on parenting, or has the defintive answer on what is going to work for a child they've never met. At best , all we can do is describe what's worked for us, and suggest strategies.

 

K x

 

Which is what I and others did. The thing is, though, the strategy 'deal with it/don't accept it' does work more often than 'ignore it and hope he/she will grow out of it', but for some reason anyone suggesting it is always somehow in the wrong, despite all of the evidence that the parents who do address the issues get results while those who don't don't. And yes, some behaviours kids do grow out of, because wider experience teaches them that the bahaviour isn't acceptable. But really, shouldn't that teaching be a parents job, rather than down to time and the vagaries of 'wider experience'?

I'll bow out of this one now - the advice I offered in my first post is pretty much it, really. Everything else was more in response to the notion that having expectations of your children amounts to abusive treatment.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

 

PS: Paula, just seen your last post... Yes, I agree, each to his own... but having said that, i think if peeps ask questions then they should give consideration to the answers they don't like too, because if they only listen to the ones they do like, and the ones they do like are all effectively the same as they are already doing... :unsure:

Edited by baddad

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Baddad

 

A few weeks ago well before xmas when our son went awol and wed to call out the coppers we told him it was utterly unaceptable to do that...............he didnt give a stuff..........anyway the following week he was meant to go to his duke of edinburgh award thingy and we said no youre not going as a punishment for youre recent behaviour..........all hell kicked of he ranted he raved he booted doors he hurled abuse.............three blasted houres this went on for but we stood our ground and didnt give in he eventually shut up and sat down......we had told him at the time of the awoling that this would happen but he probably though nar you wont follow it through..............i can be a tough cookie sometimes and i dont always go with the aspie flow of things.....id taken me iron pills that day.............

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from the AS point of view = i spent upwards of 6 months unable to leave the house/attend school through anxiety. in the end the only thing that worked was literally being dragged out of the house screaming and forced to deal with it. that combined with certain special measures (i attended school part-time, then full time but in the library rather than class) got me back on track. understanding is incredibly important, but so is knowing that you can't go on the way things are and something has to be done. 'toughen up and get over it' does work for AS people sometimes (often), just like it works for NT people sometimes... we're not a completely different species!

 

how old is K? if he's primary school age then i really do thing the standing your ground and insisting thing is the best option. for our k we now have a visual timetable, and if she resists going out to do something we take her to that and say 'but your tiimetable says thats what we're doing' and then she feels she has to do it! can't argue with the timetable (although i have caught her sneakily rearranging it so her swimming lessons are on whatever day it is rather than wednesday!)

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Hope the holidays are not dragging on too much.

 

K seems to be getting a bit more intolerant about going out and wondered if there are any tips or tricks that people know of (ones that we have not used) in trying to coax him out of the house. He is becoming weather dependent,even though we always carry an umbrella)and he insists we carry this. I show him that i put the fold up umbrella in my bag. Today i said to him about meeting daddy from work, and he blatently refused, his reason was ,....'its not summer'. I asked him to explain what he meant and he said its just not a nice day and i don't want to go and see him. I offered his favourite chocolate if he came out with me and he said that was not a good enough reason to go, it wasn't even rainining. He never said anything about the park or playing, he is just happy to run up and down the living room, and today he has been drinking a lot.

 

I am having to increase his dose of movicol and wondered if this could be the reason, as he had a bad day yesterday and i had to keep changing his pants but he has not said anything about his toileting. He is not suffering with the runs and is still constipated.

 

Just wish professionals could hear the stuff we hear, we have wrote down things he says in a diary. If anyone has any ideas about helping him to cope outside the house and also getting him back to school i would be grateful. Sorry but don't have the energy to take on two asd children today. Eldest one has had a day off today and has just sat gaming all day.

 

many thanks

 

sarni :unsure:

 

Hi

 

Personally I don't think the going out in itself is the issue (I have child like this myself). Is it perhaps the toiletting that is making him feel worried about going out? My youngest has had major problems with doing a poo. He only does it now (at 13) in our downstairs toilet. He won't do it upstairs or anywhere else. He used to hold on (which led to constipation), and even when he was desperate he didn't want to go. He used to get extremely fidgety and when he did sit down it was on a pile of cushions. He used to get very irritable and couldn't concentrate on anything. When he goes it takes him a long time. If I knew I might need to go at some point and didn't want to be out of the house when it happened, then I wouldn't want to go out. The stuff about the weather is possibly just his intelligent brain coming up with 'reasons' for not going out. I have only worked all this out in hindsight with my son, so I hope it helps you now.

 

Good luck.

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