Must attend science lessons

[BuntyB]

My daughter who is 15 has had a load of problems with attending school. It's hard to know exactly what's going on; she reports a lot of bullying which may be true as although she doesn't come across as a disabled child she appears perhaps odd or eccentric and may be bullied on this basis, but then she also can over-react or misinterpret what some people say.

Some of what she has said is 'bullying' relates to her being upset because kids her age are foul-mouthed, immature and clearly tell tall stories (e.g. boast about sexual conquests) when she is in ear shot and she finds all of this distressing.

She has refused school countless times and recently, for the first time, left and walked home over the moors, which is quite worrying.

We have a meeting tomorrow with CAMHS, autism support and school senco to decide what we can do.

Previously we had agreement my daughter could miss science as when she went through her timetable this was identified as the tipping point. It's not the lessons as she is academic, but something going on there. She says other kids are verbally abusive even when teachers are there but they do nothing. Whatever is happening it drives her over and she has self-harmed, doesn't sleep or eat and cries all the time.

We managed to get her to school on the understanding she went to the library instead of science, and this seemed to work. We have offered to get a tutor to hep her do science at home, but senco says it isn't workable as science is compulsory and she can't do it without the practicals. when she mentioned going back to lessons she stopped going altogether.

 

 

can anyone advise? I'm sure kids can legally work at home, in special setting etc and not do practical experiments, so is it not legal to do most of her lessons in school and just that one outide of school?

She is clever enough and to be quite honest, if she fails science, I really don't care. She just needs her subjects to progress to college or 6th form as she does want to do go to Uni. It's just getting though this next 18 month somehow. I'm completely frazzled from all these meetings!

 

Or anyone any advice for the meeting? It feels like everyone is putting on me to come up with answers when I'm really not sure how to get her into school if she is so distressed. I can hardly pick her up and carry her!

[emmasmum]

Hi there,

I'm not sure on science but my daughter is also 15 and has dropped PE and RE this year on advice from the EP.

 

PE because she hates it - school were initially against it, saying it was a compulsory subject but EP said that lots of pupils work on a very reduced timetable to make school easier and she didn't see the problem with dropping PE.

 

RE - not sure if that's compulsory for this age group but basically, EP asked what she could drop to focus on her important subjects such as Maths and English - as she's not doing well in RE I agreed I was happy for her to drop it to do private study in the library.

 

It may be worth asking for a referral to Educational Psychologist if your daughter doesn't already see one.

HTH

Carol

[BuntyB]

It may be worth asking for a referral to Educational Psychologist if your daughter doesn't already see one.

HTH

Carol

 

Thanks for this. How did you get in touch with/find an educational psych?

[Kathryn]

in answer to your question is it legally possible - yes schools can make flexible arrangements and are required to accommodate pupils with medical needs with erratic attendance or who may not be able to do the usual timetable.

 

Just had a quick look at the National Extension College website and they offer distance learning GCSE courses in Science, Biology and Chemistry, so it is certainly possible to study such subjects from home.

 

Here's the site - I'm not recommending them specifically as I have no experience of them but they seem to be a well establishied organisation.

 

http://www.nec.ac.uk/index-lsn.html

 

If she is capable of getting a science GCSE then the school should try their best to enable her to do it. Perhaps intensive 1-1 LSA support for science could help - out of normal lesson time if necessary? Nobody should be telling you that there's nothing they can do, or that it's her problem, so don't let the school get away with this.

 

Perhaps the problem is what happens in the science lessons themselves? I know my daughter loved science and achieved very well in it, but hated practicals because of the whole risk factor, she had a fear of explosions and didn't like to be kept in suspense - a tactic often used to engage pupils' interest. Apparently she used to get under the desk sometimes - she was so afraid. When she was finally diagnosed and teachers sussed what was going on, they would explain to her exactly what they were going to do in the lesson. Sometimes she would have an LSA with her doing the same. This helped a lot. It may not apply to your daughter - just thought I'd mention it.

 

Regarding an EP - you can ask the Senco to ask the EP to come and assess your daughter. Good luck with the meeting. Hopefully having Camhs there will help the school to realise that your daughter needs help.

 

K x

[RainbowsButterflies]

Do you know what exam board the school are doing? I'm a trainee science teacher, and if your DD's school are doing AQA (the same as my placement school) I can try to find out what the actual requirements are, so you're in a better position to argue for her doing it out of the actual class....

[BuntyB]

Do you know what exam board the school are doing? I'm a trainee science teacher, and if your DD's school are doing AQA (the same as my placement school) I can try to find out what the actual requirements are, so you're in a better position to argue for her doing it out of the actual class....

 

I think it's AQA, but that's only because it's what my son did but will find out for definite tomorrow.

Thanks everyone.

[Sally44]

I would also advise you to talk to someone at IPSEA about this.

 

Many children on the spectrum are within mainstream schools, and sometimes they just cannot cope with aspects of that environment. That is not the child's fault. To then be told that there is nothing that can be done is incorrect. What can be done depends to a certain extent on what you are prepared to take on. Definately the school should seek outside professionals help and those professionals should identify what the need/difficulty is and make recommendations so that the child can do what they previously could not do, or access an environment they were struggling with. The Disability Discrimination Act says that there should be 'reasonable adjustments' to allow a disabled person to access work or learning. But finding out what needs to be done and getting a professional to do that and put in writing their recommendations is very hard.

 

If she is capable of getting qualifications then it is not fair that she simply drops this subject.

 

Consider the accumulation of difficulties that might mean she is not able to cope with one more thing. Talk to your daughter about things she feels would help her and see if she has any ideas.

 

I certainly sympathise with you. My own son vomits when he gets upset. We too have been referred to CAHMS. And what annoyed me about that was that if everyone was doing the things they are supposed to be doing, then he probably wouldn't get so anxious that he vomitted. When he does vomit he is sent home from school for 2 days. So he misses out on his education too. My son has also began to walk away from people/environments so that is a further worry for me too.

 

If there is alot of disruptive behaviour in that particular class would she be able to tolerate moving to a different science class?

 

On a different, but related note, has your daughter been assessed by a SALT? You may find her understanding of language is far less than you suspected, especially if she keeps misunderstanding things. My son also overhears conversations and miscontrues things. He recently overheard two TAs talking about the bad weather saying that they did not think the children should be sent to school. So the next day he refused to go in and said he had been told by 2 TAs that he should not go into school. We can easily overestimate their abilities eventhough their diagnosis means they have to have significant difficulties with speech and communication and social language.

 

One final thought. If they do say that she should just drop science due to her difficulties ask them to put that to you in writing. I doubt they will do that because you would then have written evidence that the school could not meet her needs. And definately speak with IPSEA and the NAS about this.

 

Can I ask what support she currently receives in school. Does she have a Statement? Is she on School Action or School Action Plus and what is her diagnosis?

Edited January 10, 2011 by Sally44

[anewman]

There is a lot of good practical constructive advice on what can be done above, however I felt the urge to detail my experiences as I feel they are relevant.

 

I too was bullied at school. I was undiagnosed at this point, and the only concern raised was by my Science teacher who wrote on a report something along the lines of I kept on the periphery, did not integrate with peers, and he had some possible concern for my social development. Sadly at this point in time what he had said did not click as I thought I was "normal" and the problem was the bullying, not that there was a problem in me potentially responsible for the bullying. My opinion of why bullying happens to people with AS is because children this age are rapidly developing their social skills whereas those of a person with AS are probably more like those of a primary school child. Other children will constantly try to tease out weaknesses in others and make use of these in an attempt to prove to friends they are in some manner superior, and to increase group cohesion. Sadly this is human NT nature. To get the better of a bully requires a great amount of social dexterity that someone with AS at that age will just not have.

 

In the end for me it got so bad I stayed at home to face the wrath of my mother (parents separated when age 9 and she was at this point single) who would try her best to get me to go to school. I would honestly say if school distresses her that much that it is a bad idea to add additional pressure to her, as bad as it may feel for a mother who recognises the importance of school. I did not sit GCSE exams as a result, I think I did do mocks though (I wrote stories about bullying in the GCSE English mock exam, lol). I applied for jobs and kept getting knocked back, went to connexxions and asked about doing GCSE's and they said based on my school record that they would not recommend doing so and would recommend, what people would know as Government Youth Training Programs. I tried these programs, some failed because I could not find a work placement (due to my AS difficulties in interviews), some because I quit due to the apparent lack of support and feeling rather depressed. So the training courses did not yield any qualifications.

 

Did not really want to go into it but its is part of the history of how I went to college, but I was having a rather difficult time and became hospitalised on a Psychiatric ward. I was misdiagnosed at first but it did eventually lead to an accurate diagnosis of AS. Eventually it was suggested I do something such as go to college for "rehabilitation". I looked into doing a full time computer course at this point. However, because I did not have GCSE English and Maths they suggested I do those first, so that's what I did, almost three years after leaving school with nothing. I started in a foundation Maths class where a maximum of grade D at GCSE was possible, but I impressed the maths teacher so much I was put up into the intermediate class where the maximum was B which I achieved. It helped that I also went to an Adult Education course at the Hospital which was also run by the same college and the Maths tutor there also worked at the other college and they apparently chatted about me. I had now changed my mind about the computer course, and the next year I started A level maths and a few more GCSE's. One teacher on enrolment expressed concern I may not be capable of A level maths with only Maths grade B and English grade C at GCSE. And so basically I did that and left in the end with 3 A levels and some GCSE's. And then went on to University.

 

Firstly I think the social dynamics at college are notably different to school, at least in the one I went to. I would avoid any college which is like a 6th form or seen as somewhere people from the current school will automatically go. Ones with a large adult student base that also do GCSE classes in the evenings would be a good idea. You may find that there are more adults attending the evening classes reducing the likelihood of bullying. I did experience a small amount of teasing/a handful of off the wall comments which were not particularly nice (did your mother drop you on your head? for example). Although the comments were not nice they no doubt just reflected their opinion of someone they saw as different and did not really mean to be particularly insulting or nasty. But in general it was a good and happy experience - much better than school was. ISTR there was one 15 year old at college which surprised some people but I guess it was due to them having difficulties at school, but the class tutor suggested it was something that did happen, so I do not know if that is something to look into.

 

When it came to University I found you could almost just keep a low profile until group work came along. Again University was a relatively good experience, but I found giving presentations and group work somewhat tortuous. I could probably have mentioned the AS to try and weed out of this work but thought it best I try give it a go in the hope it would help me get better at those sort of things.

Edited January 10, 2011 by anewman

[BuntyB]

One final thought. If they do say that she should just drop science due to her difficulties ask them to put that to you in writing. I doubt they will do that because you would then have written evidence that the school could not meet her needs. And definately speak with IPSEA and the NAS about this.

 

Can I ask what support she currently receives in school. Does she have a Statement? Is she on School Action or School Action Plus and what is her diagnosis?

 

Thanks Sally. My daughter is diagnosed with AS. She doesn't have a statement. She was on SA+ at her first school, but had no intervention at all from year 5-year 10. This is because she was in a small school where the children were supportive. I'm not sure what she is now? She started this school last September.

 

The school haven't suggested that she drop science at all. They say that she must attend science lessons because the GCSE is based on practical experiments done in lessons.

I'm not sure what IPSEA stands for or what they do?

Edited January 10, 2011 by Shona

[anewman]

P. S. I just noticed you're in West Yorks. If you're in Leeds Park Lane College was where I went and I found it okay there.

[BuntyB]

P. S. I just noticed you're in West Yorks. If you're in Leeds Park Lane College was where I went and I found it okay there.

My older saughter is there. Can you access GCSE courses at 15 there though, or do you have to be over 16?

[anewman]

My older saughter is there. Can you access GCSE courses at 15 there though, or do you have to be over 16?

All I can say is when I was there someone said they were 15 (can't remember what the purpose of asking ages was), another student openly queried it with the teacher and he said it can happen in some circumstances, suggesting it wasn't a one off occurrence. I have no idea what those circumstances are though. Perhaps it could be something to suggest? And it may be a good option if her sister is there too.

 

Edit: Also when I was there there was a nurse who liased with teachers on issues of disability and I think I was the first person with AS she had ever come across as she knew nothing about it.

Edited January 10, 2011 by anewman

[zeldasmum]

Hi re: Education Pyschologist My little boy has just been referred via school. He is in Primary though so not sure if it is different at high school. The process is that the EP comes into school termly for a meeting with HT and SENCO and any children with issues are discussed and from their a referral is made.

 

As the costs come out of the school budget when I initialy asked as I had assumed it was part of the process the HT asked well do you think he needs to be seen and then in his next breath commented that some of DS behaviours had been picked up when the EP had been inhis class assessing another child.

 

Good Luck

[BuntyB]

Just an update from the meeting. Everyone seems sypathetic but for the first time I have heard the deputy head acknowledge that they are well aware my daughter is bullied and not by just a few people, by a lot of people. Teachers have moved her to sit with various people but it makes no difference. Several commnets about the way she looks and how she acts; doesn't mix, has no hobbies, no boyfriend and so doesn't fit in with her peer group. They have suggested that she might be better in a setting especially for kids with anxiety. My blood was boiling at this point; if they KNOW she is bullied, where is feedback and what is happening to these kids who are doing this to her?

Deputy head says she will find out.

The poor kid wasn't full of anxiety before this started!

Part of me wants to go to town on this; it isn't her fault she isn't like other teenagers. they say that it isn't possible to change the culture in school; daughter gets upset when she hears them being foul-mouthed and boasting of sexual conquests, but this really worries me. Where do these kids come from that lob bricks through windows and terrorise people because they're disabled? If school can't teach some tolerance, who will?

I wish the head, in an over subscribed school with specialism in autism, could add that it is a condition in the parent/school agreement that children are tolerant and supportive of those who have special needs?

Part of me thinks she's best out of it. I can't bear to see her abused like this any longer. But I am really mad because she is a clever and quiet girl who just wants peace to study. She is well capable of the 9 GCSEs and has a good report and the place they are thinking of will give her a basic education. Doesn't she have a right to an education as part of her human rights??!

[anewman]

They have suggested that she might be better in a setting especially for kids with anxiety. My blood was boiling at this point; if they KNOW she is bullied, where is feedback and what is happening to these kids who are doing this to her?

This isn't xxxx School is it? If so it shows nothing has changed there in many years. That would get me going and I'm not even a parent yet. It's easier to deal with the minority than it is the majority. Just imagine their position if they were to do something, such as for example send letters to all their parents about their wonderful innocent child bullying one child in particular. They would soon be getting lots of contact from very annoyed parents and a messy situation.

 

I doubt any setting for kids with anxiety exist that would be easily accessible. I know how I would feel at that age if I was stuck in a room full of kids who have been placed there due to issues with anxiety. She will already feel unhappy that she does not fit in, and such a forced situation would merely be an adult sanctioned acceptance of this and will do no help for her already dented self-confidence. Out of interest did you ask about the possibility of College? I still think that would be a much better option. It is a relatively "normal" setting, with (in my experience at least) a much lower risk of bullying.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Kathryn
To remove name of school in accordance with forum rules.

[BuntyB]

This isn't xxxx School is it? .

No it's not, but I guess a number of schools have the same issue.

My husband made the same point in the meeting; some time ago our second son was being bullied by a gang on the school bus (different school). For a long time school said it was outside school therefore not their problem. My husband said it is a school bus with your school pupils on it, and if you don't do something, i will. At this point they said there was no need for that; they would deal with it. They did. They banned my son from the bus and made him catch another. It stinks, doesn't it?

Edited January 11, 2011 by Kathryn
see previous post

[Kathryn]

Just a reminder: when sharing local information please avoid naming specific schools on the forum. This information can be shared via pm if necessary.

 

Thanks

 

Kathryn