delayed speech

[tam mc]

hi everyone, my 3 year old son doesnt have any words yet and we are told that this is common in autistic children. when do most autistic children talk? i know autism affects everyone differently, just really worried!

[LisaKaz75]

has your son been referred for any speech therapy

 

at 2.5 our son spoke very little, but at 3.5 has a lot of words, but does not really speak any sentences

 

He can put 2 words together - e.g want drink

 

We found speech therapy was really beneficial

 

LisaKaz

[tam mc]

hi lisakaz, hes been seeing the speach therapist since last july but doesnt seem to be making any progress. he mostly says mmmm a lot.

[coolblue]

Have you had his hearing *and ears* checked? Hearing screening tests don't check for ear function and children can easily miss the test anyway.

 

cb

[tam mc]

hi coolblue, he had his hearing checked a couple of months ago and they said it was fine.

[coolblue]

What tests did they do? Did they tell you?

 

cb

[tam mc]

it was just a general hearing test i think, which he passed.

[Lynden]

Hi there

 

My son didn't say a single word until he was 6.5 years old (he does have global developmental delay also). He didn't even really babble a whole amount. Now a year later he just doesn't stop chatting from the minute he gets up till he goes to bed - one extreme to the other! We get some meaningful language which is excellent but we get a lot of babble and repetitive speech too.

 

We found at that age it was better to concentrate on communication rather than worry about speech. Do you use sign or PECS with him? We used PECS initially as L didn't have the dexterity to sign. He couldn't use PECS for complicated things but could get his needs across which was really helpful. He started to sign around age 5. Even now he talks we still use sign and symbols a lot - particularly if we know he is going anywhere that might cause him anxiety as his speech tends to go at that point.

 

It is one of those how long is a piece of string questions though - some ASD children talk early, some late, some never - some can and choose not to. That's why we decided we just had to focus on communication rather than the actual 'talking' part.

 

Lynne

[sesley]

it takes time. Give him lots of input yourself. if he indicated he wants a drink etc,say back would you like a drink,then point at the drink you give him encourage him to say the words as well.keep your sentences when you speak to him keep your language simple and give him time to process what you said,make sure he looks at you when you talk. and read him stories sharing the book and pointing to the words and pictures,so that he can see and say cat and dog etc. You will find what works for you.

[tam mc]

thanks lynne and selsey for your replies, we will try to keep positive and focus on communicating rather than getting preoccupied with trying to get him talking. he communicates now by taking you to the thing that he wants or giving you his juice cup for a drink or giving you a toy to play with him with. he is not ready for sign yet but we will introduce pictures as this sounds really good. we are new to all this but we are trying to find out as much as possible to try and bring our son on.

thanks again for your replies. tam

[Lynden]

thanks lynne and selsey for your replies, we will try to keep positive and focus on communicating rather than getting preoccupied with trying to get him talking. he communicates now by taking you to the thing that he wants or giving you his juice cup for a drink or giving you a toy to play with him with. he is not ready for sign yet but we will introduce pictures as this sounds really good. we are new to all this but we are trying to find out as much as possible to try and bring our son on.

thanks again for your replies. tam

 

Pictures really were the best thing for us with L - you can use symbols or actual photographs of the item. L used to bring us his cup when he wanted a drink, then we progressed to having a picture boards with a picture of his cup / snacks etc on it so he could bring that to us to ask. The advantage of pictures too is that he will be able to ask others for what he wants also. We started using them very basically when L was around 2 and he really did have limited understanding then too but he got the basics.

 

As Sesley says, keep talking to him too - it may surprise you how much he is taking in even though he isn't talking back. I remember hearing Ros Blackburn talk when my son was younger and she made the comment that her parents never stopped talking to her, even though she never replied. That stuck with me and I'm glad it did as the things L comes out with, he obviously was taking things in for years before he decided / was ready to talk.

 

Lynne

[tam mc]

thanks very much for your reply, it is very encourageing. we will definatley use pictures or photographs. i do know that he is taking things in for example he loves doing jigsaws, that means he loves watching you do them for him, but just recently he has started picking up the right pieces for you to put in for him, i pretend that i am stuck and he will find the right piece for me. i cant tell you how good this made us feel as we thought he just liked us doing them and that was it. thanks very much lynne for taking the time to reply, tam

[Sally44]

If he is not speaking the SALT can also use symbols such as PECS and he may benefit from learning some signing or gesturing as well. My son was just using 2 word combinations at around 3 years years. Then he watched his first Walt Disney video and began repeating it word for word. He still learns TV/Film scripts very quickly and uses them in his spoken language.

 

I don't think that speaking or lack of it is necessarily an indication of cognitive ability, but it can be an indication of a specific learning difficulty relating to language, auditory processing or dyslexia. I don't think Temple Grandin spoke until she was 5.

 

But not using language does not mean they cannot, or do not want to communicate. That is why PECS and signing should be being suggested by the SALT. Check that the SALT is qualified to diagnose and treat children with speech disorders as well as autism. When I checked I found the SALT was not qualified, and having asked the question they referred me to a senior SALT who is qualified in those areas. Ask them about learning some signing and using PECS. You could start with basic 'needs' signs for requesting a drink, food, toilet, yes, no. If he learns and uses them, then start to widen the signing vocab. And it will also be a huge relief and joy for you to be able to communciate with eachother.

 

Signing is good because it does not require eye to eye contact, and the child is more likely to be able to sign when overwhelmed or overloaded, than they would be to either speak or use PECS.

 

Is your child at all interested in TV or films?

[Sally44]

thanks lynne and selsey for your replies, we will try to keep positive and focus on communicating rather than getting preoccupied with trying to get him talking. he communicates now by taking you to the thing that he wants or giving you his juice cup for a drink or giving you a toy to play with him with. he is not ready for sign yet but we will introduce pictures as this sounds really good. we are new to all this but we are trying to find out as much as possible to try and bring our son on.

thanks again for your replies. tam

 

If he is bringing his cup for juice and a toy to request play (which is a good indication from an autistic point of view of interest in social interaction), then when he brings you his cup for juice you can sign for juice or drink etc. He has worked out that when he gives his cup you know that he wants juice. If he has worked that out for himself he will work out signing.

[tam mc]

hi sally, we will speak to SALT about pictures and signing. the only things he will watch on TV is the baby TV channel on sky which is not suitable because there isn't a lot of words spoken, and formula 1 motor racing, he will get very close to the TV and very exited. he likes to watch you play and its hard to get him to take part, for instance he will give you his pens and paper for you to draw and he loves watching you and will get exited. we are trying to put the pens in his hands for him to do it and sometimes he will but not for long and he will give you the pens back.thanks for your reply tam

[LisaKaz75]

not sure which baby tv channel he watched on sky, but my son watched channel 623

 

This has some really good programmes that Leo learnt lots from. There are programmes on numbers, colours, food, etc.. Particular favourites are Louis World, numbers party, colours and shapes and bath tubbbies

 

Leo loves these and has learnt some of the programmes off by heart. I am not saying that this is the best thing as often he talks as the programmes, but we have used some of this to our advantage now

 

LisaKaz

[tam mc]

hi lisakaz, 623 is the same channel and his favourite is Oliver, we just felt that he should be moving on to older stuff but this is what he likes so we just let him watch it. hopefully he is taking it all in. thanks for your reply.tam

[sesley]

mine at 2 was repeating Bob the builder dialog,like Well Done Lofty! Even now at 11 he continues to watch ceebeebees programs because he can understand the simple language and social stories. He he does progess to older things like the Simpsons and Family Guy which we watch with is older brother,i don't think he understand what he is laughing at sometimes,but the obvious ones like farting and toliet humour he laughs at those. He does not understand the double meaning of words,which is why he finds jokes hard to get and he makes them up and they don't work ,he finds homework hard to do because trying to think of how to use the words he has been given to learn to spell because he finds it hard to imagine how to use them. Learning to talk and understand the facial and body language also is a hard one,which is why Thomas the Tank Engine is a favourite with children and autism,because the engines show happy or sad or suprised. Each child is different with different abilitys,so you will find what works for you. Be patient,because when he does talk it will be hard to shut him up!

[Sally44]

hi sally, we will speak to SALT about pictures and signing. the only things he will watch on TV is the baby TV channel on sky which is not suitable because there isn't a lot of words spoken, and formula 1 motor racing, he will get very close to the TV and very exited. he likes to watch you play and its hard to get him to take part, for instance he will give you his pens and paper for you to draw and he loves watching you and will get exited. we are trying to put the pens in his hands for him to do it and sometimes he will but not for long and he will give you the pens back.thanks for your reply tam

 

My son did not draw until he was about 8. He wanted me to do the pictures, and he wanted a perfect replica drawing. We now know that he has a number of difficulties that make many things difficult for him (including drawing, writing, speaking etc), although he is still assessed as being around average cognitively - and many people told me that he would eventually learn to do stuff, and I just didn't believe it - but he has.

 

For drawing my son found it very hard to start. But if he wanted a picture of a robot, I would draw the head for him, and he seemed able to finish it off. But without me starting it for him, he could not even begin. He also found it easier on a blackboard than paper, and needed a pencil and rubber to rub out his mistakes.

 

My son also likes to play, but often plays alongside, or in his head, or trys to repeat things exactly as they happened on TV. The approach that worked best with us was to play alongside, rather than opposite, reduce speech to a minimum, and use it to give an occasional narrative of what he was doing. So instead of saying "xxx, what is that?, we might say "racing car", "fast car", "red car" - as a statement, rather than requiring a verbal response.

 

We also found a brilliant Play Therapist that we paid for privately. She was experienced in working with children with Autism, and she helped alot.

[tam mc]

thanks selsey, we will be patient and try not to worry about it, hes a happy wee boy who done his 1st jigsaw on his own today(8 pieces). he usuaiiy likes to watch us do it for him. we are so happy. thanks selsey

[tam mc]

hi sally, thanks for that it has given us some ideas. hes 3 next month and we have got him a thomas the tank engine box set because we heard that would be good. we are feeling a lot more possitive thanks to all the great replies. so proud about the jigsaw. thanks sally

[sesley]

jigsaws now, later its building lego models all by himself following the instructions.

[Sally44]

Yes, often they develop one particular skill but sometimes do not transfer that skill into other areas.

For example my son is constructing Lego and other modelling way beyond his years. Yet he is struggling to read or write.

He only started playing computer games about 6 months ago, and is now again on advanced games. But cannot tie his shoelaces.

 

And you may see little progress at all for a long time and suddenly they do something and you just go WOW!

 

Hope he likes the trains. My son never did. He was always into jigsaws, lego, construction, picture books, TV and films. Always try to use whatever he likes to motivate him and use it in play or in learning eg. thomas can be used to teach colours, numbers, names, counting, sharing, taking turns, playing etc etc.

[tam mc]

yes that seems to be the case with my son, it seems like you are making no progress then he does something really good. he is really affectionate and happy most of the time but just lately his moods are really bad and we are seeing more tantrums which lead to him nipping and biting and this can last an hour, it can be very draining. we know that this may be down to him being frustrated that he cant communicate what he wants. he has also started nipping at nursery when he doesnt get what he wants and this is worrying for us. if he doesnt get what he wants or we dont know what he wants he gets himself really worked up and its a tantrum (tears, nipping and biting) and we are not sure how best to deal with it as we dont just want to give in to him just to keep the peace. thanks for your reply sally

[oxgirl]

if he doesnt get what he wants or we dont know what he wants he gets himself really worked up and its a tantrum (tears, nipping and biting) and we are not sure how best to deal with it as we dont just want to give in to him just to keep the peace.

 

Hi tam mc,

I would def. recommend trying to nip this behaviour in the bud before it gets to be too much of a habit. If you are tempted to give in to him, he'll quickly cotton on to the fact that nipping and biting will get him what he wants. Perhaps a firm "no biting" and turning your back on him or walking away returning when he is calm would be effective in the first instance?

 

~ Mel ~

[tam mc]

hi Mel, this is what we have been doing but it is very hard as he is very determined and you can see him getting more worked up. for someone who doesn't understand words he certainly understands NO as soon as he hears this that will send him off. sometimes you are not even talking to him, it could be the dog but as soon as he hears the word NO he will let out a moan and sometimes get angry straight away. we try to stay firm with him but as i have said it is hard sometimes, but i agree it is what we need to do as we are scared he will bite another child in nursery.thanks for your reply, tam

[Sally44]

We've all had that type of response as ours were growing up. Mine used to get absolutely distraught (compared to the thing that set him off), and would vomit. Or he'd get really mad and upset for hours and at that age you don't know what has upset them. We found that stopping him doing something to do something else (called a transition) really upset him. So putting toys away because it was time to eat/go out/have a bath/go to bed was a nightmare. And there are lots of things you can teach as they are getting older, but at that age, for us, it was like the terrible twos multiplied by a thousand - my son wasn't diagnosed then - and nobody seemed to really understand what I was saying about how upset/angry he used to get.

 

What I would say is to involve those professionals that can help.

 

Also your post is titled "speech delay", it may or may not be a delay, it maybe a speech disorder or impairment, which are just as, if not more common than a delay - and a child can have a speech disorder and delay as well.

 

A "delay" means that language is developing as it should do but at a later date or at a slower pace. Most children on the spectrum have much more than a delay - and the diagnostic criteria talks about significant difficulties with speech and language and social communication - that is not a delay that is a disorder.

 

The difference between what appear just "labels", is that a speech therapist can say a child with a speech delay has caught up and no longer needs speech therapy. But a disorder is for life, and although the child's language skills will improve, the underlying difficulties will always be there. So things like not understanding verbal communication, pronouns, repeating words/sentences (echolalia), difficulties with pragmatics and semantics and JUST AS IMPORTANT difficulties with social interaction and social communication skills are a Disorder.

 

Talk to the SALT about his social communication skills [because his tantrums are due to not being able to communicate socially] and say that you want these areas to be assessed. They should definately be assessed before he starts school, using Standardised Assessments which will give baseline age related scores from which you can measure progress.

[tam mc]

hi sally, we have a prescat appointment in a couple of weeks and we will bring up your points then. nobody actually said it was delayed speech it may well be a speech disorder, that's just what i called it. we haven't seen SALT since our last prescott appointment 2 1/2 months ago and the last couple of times we did see her she just got us to watch some videos. i don't feel that she has helped us at all so far. we are really don't know much about all this at all so we just assume that they know whats best and take there advice, that's why i joined this forum to get some other advice to try and make sure we and they are doing the right thing. thanks sally

[nadine.a]

hi sally, we have a prescat appointment in a couple of weeks and we will bring up your points then. nobody actually said it was delayed speech it may well be a speech disorder, that's just what i called it. we haven't seen SALT since our last prescott appointment 2 1/2 months ago and the last couple of times we did see her she just got us to watch some videos. i don't feel that she has helped us at all so far. we are really don't know much about all this at all so we just assume that they know whats best and take there advice, that's why i joined this forum to get some other advice to try and make sure we and they are doing the right thing. thanks sally

 

Hi everyone l am also new here and also to autism my son ls 4 years of age and was diagnosed wth ASD last year, l have been amazed at the likeness to my son, my son also has limited speech and says a handfull of words such as bye, his name, jiuce and the words he does says he says very clearng but mostly he talks "Jargon" as l have been told, He is generally a happy little boy but when he has a tantrum lt ls like world war three but thankfully at the moment that ls not very often, He will bring me his cup lf he wants a drink or will point at the bottle of juice also points to the cupboard for a bisciut,lf l am not ln the kitchen and he would like somethink he comes up to me puts his arm round me and try to move me to the room where he wants me to go then point to the object that he wants,he also has a fasination with little cars or figures and bricks he will sit there for a hour sometimes and line all his bricks in a line but a perfect line l once came ln to the living room and he had lined up his bricks then also a row on top of them perfectly balanced, He also love music and seems to calm him when he starts to get a bit frustrated, l do worry alot about him as he also has no sense of danger he will try and climb the highest object for the purpose of jumping off and he ls very quick on his feet my neighbours have many times see me sprint past their window ln chase saved me alot on gym fees he ls also very touch sensative loves sand and water and likes to stroke my hair, l do have problems with his diet as he will not eat anythink lumpy,lt has been conforting to read some of your stories on this site and find people that l can relate to

 

Nadine

[dekra]

My son is about to turn 4 and until he was 3 he had barely a handful of words. He can now put 2 words together but sentences are parrot fashion only. Infact, he can put a please on the ends too, like "mum, kitchen, please" if he wants something!

 

Yesterday I was astounded, he watches Special Agent Oso a lot and even though we were in the car so not near the TV decided to repeat the cheer from an episode he's seens dozens of times (or more!).

 

Go, go, Gators! Fight, fight, fight!

 

Front step, back step, bite, bite, bite!

 

He got the first line perfectly but got the back and front steps around the wrong way and instead of bite bite bite said fight fight fight again but I was astounded! It's the most he has ever said in 1 go and no resorting to gobbildy-gook. He's redone it half a dozen times now over the last 2 days and I was almost welling up at him

 

Still don't know if it is ASD or not - he has other issues that might indicate it's ASD and is awaiting assessment next month. A speech delay does not automatically make for ASD and not all ASD's have a speech delay. I think you need to look at an overview of your sons behaviour, for me one of the big concerns has been his social isolation and his comprehension. I read a lot of posts on this site and was able to identify a number of other traits that could also indicate ASD which is why I pushed for a referal. You know your son better than anyone, if you have genuine concerns make people listen to you and don't let them dismiss you without some solid reasoning why they are dismissing each concern you have. On the other hand if he just has the speech delay it might be those dreaded words that I hate but he might just be a little slow in this aspect and will catch up all of a sudden at some point (believe me I am sick of hearing that one but sometime it is true).

 

Sally, that was useful to me what you said about speech delay and disorder. The first time the new SALT (I'm assuming that stands for Speech and Language Therapist?) saw Finn was co-incidentally the same day I decided to bring the subject of ASD up with his nursery key worker (who agreed with much of what I was saying and adding her own points that would justify getting him assessed). Whilst we were having the convo the SALT (who had just replaced the previous one that had seen Finn once then gone on 8 month sick leave then left her position) came in and made a 5 minute (literally) observation of Finn. The key worker and I then discussed ASD with her, she pointedly said no he has a speech disorder nothing else and walked off. I think that might be a note to make to discuss further at assessment. Wish I had realised what you said about the difference between delay and disorder when I spoke to her this afternoon.

[sesley]

is your key worker a expert in autism? does she only have working experience?then get your self into the the real professionals as soon as you can for a proper assesement from the right people.You will need to start banging on your GP's doors /health visitor doors to get any where,but if you think there maybe more than a speech delay then you must follow up your instincts. contact the National Autistic society for information,don't let a little nursery assistant put you off,because the sooner you find out,the sooner the support for learning gets put into place. The earlier you know the better,rather than finding out later when you start missing important schooling times.http://www.autism.org.uk/

[Gonzo]

Tam at 3 my son did not say any words either and never seemed to understand pointing to get accross what he wanted. He would use my hand and take it to what he wanted.

At about 3 and a half he was playing in the bath and he took a toy boat out of the bath, turned it over, put it on the side of the bath and said "upsidedown" - that was the start of his speaking.

He was nearer 5 before he called me Mom.

He is 10 now and in mainstream school. Still sees the SALT team as he has trouble pronouncing some sounds (but he sees it as other peoples fault if they dont understand him!)

He used to be a big Thomas the Tank engine fan but only the old series - now they have redone them and their faces move more he hates it.

Now he is into Dr Who, Pokemon and Nintendo and loves watching films.

 

As an aside my uncle (who I have never considered to have any outward signes of having an ASD) did not speak until he was five and aparantly as family legend goes when he did start to speak he said he had not spoken before just because he had nothing he wanted to say!

Edited August 4, 2011 by Gonzo