Naomumi Report post Posted May 27, 2011 Hi Guys Whole new world for me this forum game, so bear with me............ I'm 42 and have been married for nearly 10 years and have one son aged 7. My husband and I both problematic damaged childhoods and both freely admit to carrying our fair share of 'baggage'. Our marriage has been a rolloercoaster but I'm still here and grittily proud of that I suppose. 2 months ago my husband made his own tentative self assessment through online assessment tools. It had led from a passing comment chacteristic of so much of our interactions when he says "its not just me.....other people think like this"....but on this occasion he finished the comment with "but many of them have an AS diagnosis". I still can't decide if this was him pushing open a door for discussion, I suggested he might like to consider looking into assessment and he went online. His AS chart shows very strong characteristics and then the fun began...... It was a very difficult time for both of us, him wanting to hide under a rock and not deal with this, me reading every clinical and social literature I can get my hands on but being unable to try to use this knowldge for the help and benefit of our family. Several close friends have said "Well.....dur.....we assumed you knew that" The name/diagnosis whatever doesn't mean anything to me, its not a label as hubby fears but it is causing me great pain: On the one hand I love this man deperately he's been part of my life for 25 years he's the father of my son and I believe in our love and marriage.....here comes the "but" BUT.....I am doing one of two extremes of emotion constantly 1) grief and despair that the nourishing communicative intimate rleationship I thought was achievable through hard work in any marriage, may never been there for us, and at least in part because my own baggage centres on rejection and self esteem I don't know how long I can hold out in this one sided unsupported new world. But 2) I cried tears of joy at the relatisation that my husbands behaviours do not reflect that he wishes he never married me, no longer desires me, and hates everything I say. Where to go from here........... I've read some wonderful inspirational books and am desperate to do what I can to stay and keep a lovely boy close to a dad he loves [ but struggles to understand]but like so much of this I seem to be swimming uphill as hubby won't discuss AS or CBT or any aspect of change, but continues to flare up , rage at us both and have to be right and say the last word. I've had 2 lots of CBT myself and have just been signed off work with physical and emotional exhaustion. We haven't really talked to the GP as hubby won't discuss with anyone but I'm at my wits end and if I can't hold on, the whole deck of cards will come crashing down..... Some help, support, hugs would be most welcome, and hello to you all Naomi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Hi Naomumi - Problematic, damaged childhoods could very easily account for the problems you feel you have in your marriage, as could the simple fact that he is a man and you are a woman. I think you should fully investigate what those things mean before introducing something new into the equation, even if the new factor seems to provide a an answer of sorts. when your husband said 'many people think like me - but many of them are autistic' he overlooked the fact that many other people probably think like him who are not autistic. Many of them will be blokes (for all sorts of social, psychological and physiological reasons blokes tend to have different value sets/views to women and behave very differently), and chances are many of them - male and female - will have historical issues that have made a major contribution to the adult personality. Might I suggest you read some books about men and women and relationships first rather than reading one of the growing number of books that label 'male' behaviour as autistic (and 'wrong') and female behaviour as 'normal' (and right), as the latter type of books strongly reinforce the idea of a 'divide' and the notion of 'blame' in these dynamics, when the reality is as old as evolution itself. Would you be as keen to read a book that labelled 'normal' female behaviours as 'neurotic' or 'irrational', which are the kind of assumptions that have been made in the past by men who have not accepted that 'different' doesn't mean 'broken'. I do hope that's helpful/food for thought, but at the end of the day 'AS' is a moot point as far as relationships go. Either a couple can communicate and both will work to do so with both making compromises along the way, or they cannot. Labelling one of the two with a dx doesn't alter that dynamic in any way - though it can create a dangerous empass where the dx is used as a justification for non-compromise by one and the assumption of a 'martyrs' role for the other. L&P BD PS: wanting the last word, having to be right, flaring up and rage are not symptoms of AS. They are, however, very clearly associated with the kind of self esteem issues that tend to arise from abusive childhoods and are alternative manifestations of the fear of rejection you recognise in yourself. My guess is, if your husband had been 'pushing open a door' he would have been open to the suggestions you have made for exploring the room behind further. He may well have intended something more in the way of a 'this is how I am and i can't change it' justication of the type I mentioned above, or even something along those lines as a reassurance for you. Either way, it's not 'meeting in the middle', but rather than addressing the issues from an AS or CBT angle I think you should start with an even playing field and marriage counselling through somewhere like relate. I would also avoid very casual assumptions and a 'home dx' of AS based on some very subjective interpretations of internet media. Things were much simpler when 'All men are b@stards' rather than 'All men have Asperger's syndrome' was the standard reassurance/reinforcement women offered other women! Edited May 27, 2011 by baddad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Naomumi Report post Posted May 27, 2011 Thanks for your post baddad Sadly I wish I were simply trying to introduce something new. Our marriage has been difficult for some years and our recent identification of AS as a possible contributing factor is positive not an excuse. I've read reams of marriage and support literature and I have gone as far as I can on my own with relate. My husband has categorically said he won't go to councelling. I'm not blaming our failings on him or AS, but perhaps I am blaming him for not considering this or anything else as a positive opportunity to understand eachother better and improve our marriage for ourselves and the son we both love. None of the books I have read have said "'male' behaviour as autistic (and 'wrong') and female behaviour as 'normal' (and right)",nor is that my view, in fact it trivialises the experiences of the small but significant proportion of females with AS. I have read clinical texts, and biographies by both AS and NT partners in marraige. I am not reacting, I have carried out careful and thorough research before deciding to ask others in similar circumstances for help. I don't think he's broken or just male, he's the man I have loved and nourished for 25 years, my commitment to him is not in question, my belief in our marriage is a seperate issue. I agree completely that a diagnosis proves nothing...........proves nothing.........but gives/gave me tenuous hope. And oh dear baddad...to resort to an "all men are b**tards" jibe, tut tut your own issues are showing Asperger's is not a threat or an issue for me, if I had diabetes, or our son had heart disease [ heaven forbid !!] we would adapt and survive....or not. Asperger's is not a "scary thing" its a "thing" we deal with it........ Best Naomi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted May 27, 2011 And oh dear baddad...to resort to an "all men are b**tards" jibe, tut tut your own issues are showing Best Naomi Hi again naomi - it wasn't a jibe, and not an issue for me: everyone agrees I'm an absolute saint! It was to make a point, and a valid one i [still] think. But to raise another cliche to make the point again: 'The problem with relationships is women think men will change and they don't while men think women won't change and they do' The man you have loved and nourished for 25 years was either a different sort of man 25 years ago (ruling out autism as the cause of your problems now, as autism is a life long condition) or was the same sort of man then but you either thought a: he would change, or b: you have changed and your 'needs' along with them, in which case whether he is or isn't autistic it really isn't his 'fault'. Now I'm not saying in either case that you should 'like it or lump it' but those are important points. If the former applies, and he was able to provide you, emotionally, with the things you want from a relationship then he still should be able to if he so chooses. If on the other hand he's never been able to provide you, emotionally, with the things you want from a relationship you have to ask yourself why you went into a relationship like that in the first place and whether the same conditions that led you to accept an unfilfilling relationship then still apply(?). If autism - the one factor that you can absolutely guarantee won't have changed if it applies at all - wasn't the issue then it can't be the issue now, can it? People - men and women - do change over time, and that would apply to autistic people too, but those changes are not in the 'nature' of the autism, but in the expectations and/or motivations of the individuals. If your husband won't go to relate or talk about your problems that's not because of 'autism'. You have to make your own choices about whether you accept that he won't try to 'fix' your relationship (which may not seem broken to him - though i'm not making any assumptions either way) or whether you don't and act accordingly. Even if you do succeed in dragging the horse to water (another cliche) there's nowt you can do if he won't drink, and again, you have to make up your own mind how you act on that. In all scenarios 'AS' is in irrelevancy - either your husband shares your concerns and your desire to fix your marriage or he doesn't. The fundamental question isn't why he does or doesn't, but why, after 25 years he has either changed from the man he used to be or why the man he used to be is no longer the man you want. Those kinds of issues - whether you can get him to address them or not - are not something that a diagnosis of AS can either 'fix' or explain, and counselling, CBT, whatever that focuses on the possibility of AS rather than looking at the core problems can only muddy the water further. And no horse wants to drink muddy water! HTH L&P BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkshine Report post Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Talking is a problem for anyone I figure, but if he's feeling like how I do (just gone through dx) I'm angry, depressed, and yes, in denial as well (even though I joined this forum) I keep cycling through these states while generally existing in a nothing type void, which is a problem as I keep lashing out when one of these states peeks through my non-existence... Anyway, unless he's willing to face this on some level I don't see what you can do, at times you can have all the people in the world trying to help you but it does no good unless you want to help yourself, so really he needs to face asking for help either with his feelings, a AS dx (sigh so many abbreviations sometimes - sounds like the army) OR he needs to face his communication difficulties - whether he sees this as being separate or intertwined with AS (assuming he does - should really check this out!. A first step is him acknowledging there's a problem.... If he does, then deciding what he feels he can do about it and whether he feels he wants/needs help. From your side, you obviously are very committed and are doing your research, but if he feels you are pigeon-holing him or rushing him before he is ready, might cause contention between you? Also this kind of thing (AS) takes time to digest... For me, everyone else involved with my diagnosis is like "right, you know what's wrong, you should be happy now" and I'm like - just hang on a second cuz I'm about 50 miles behind you! Dunno if this helps..... Edited May 27, 2011 by darkshine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Naomumi Report post Posted May 27, 2011 Bless you darkshine....it helps, And thanks again baddad, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on a number of things but I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions Naomi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Bless you darkshine....it helps, And thanks again baddad, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on a number of things but I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions Naomi That's fine, but it's a pity you don't say what you disagree with, because no matter how I look at it I can't see any flaw in what I've said(?) L&P BD Edited May 27, 2011 by baddad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RainbowsButterflies Report post Posted May 27, 2011 Hi Naomi, and welcome. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Naomumi Report post Posted May 28, 2011 Cheers RainbowsButterflies <'> Sorry baddad I din't mean to sound like I was shutting you down, painful though your honest truths are. The last few days have been pretty rough for all of us here and I think I wasn't ready to admit out loud [so to speak] that I agree with alot of what you're saying. I'm new to the forum at a low ebb and to use another cliche I was probably more after the "there there....." than honest home truths. I do value your thoughts and as I say largely agree, I just don't much like where that information takes me.............apologies if that made me defensive Naomi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted May 28, 2011 Cheers RainbowsButterflies <'> Sorry baddad I din't mean to sound like I was shutting you down, painful though your honest truths are. The last few days have been pretty rough for all of us here and I think I wasn't ready to admit out loud [so to speak] that I agree with alot of what you're saying. I'm new to the forum at a low ebb and to use another cliche I was probably more after the "there there....." than honest home truths. I do value your thoughts and as I say largely agree, I just don't much like where that information takes me.............apologies if that made me defensive Naomi No worries - and FWIW I really do hope you can find some answers and a way forward... and if that does include thinking about / looking into AS that's all good too. Oh, and if it's not too late in the day, 'there there' too, but don't let it cause you to forget about the other stuff! L&P BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
