Girls and Autism

[annie]

Just found this on the BBC website

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4630705.stm

 

Also on the same page, a link to details of a programme tonight about twins. One who is autistic. Oops, the link's disappeared. This is about the programme.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/listings/progr...5_4223_51295_40

 

Annie

Edited June 28, 2005 by annie

[Kathryn]

Thanks Annie, a very interesting article.

[Colin_and_Shelagh]

I've emailed the Beeb to point out that autism is not a disease!

 

Colin

[yameretzu]

Well it is true, I can be quite withdrawn socially but when comfortable I can talk for hours.

[smallworld]

I think this is a really interesting article and sheds a whole knew light on a gidl I shared a house with at uni. She was a twin, and her sister was very outgoing when I met her (she was at different uni) This girl was anorexic and I put this down to why she would never eat in front of us other girls. She would 'cook' in the kitchen in the middle of the night, and she would chop whatever she was eating into uniformly 1cm square pieces.On a 1:1 basis she was lovely, but couldn't cope with all 5 of us. I wish I'd known then what I know now.

[baddad]

Hi all -

This all confirms a pet theory I've had for years (and posted elsewhere, so depending on time scales I may be sueing!!) that because girls are 'naturally' more developed socially, they will be better at 'masking' autistic features.

The other thing they've missed out is that girls have a far wider accepted range of 'normal' behaviours than boys, so, again, ASD traits that ring alarm bells if presented by boys just appear 'quirky' in girls...

There's a lot of stuff (in fact, some VERY highly regarded work) into the "Extreme Male Brain" explanation of autism, and while this directly connects with some features of autism it sort of overlooks that female 'logic' (HaHa - an oxymoron if ever I heard one ) and behaviour can be WAY OUT THERE without attracting ANY sort of attention other than the odd wink and exasperated "Tut - women eh? Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em"

Bottom Line: Yes, i agree emphatically that it's probable that far more women/girls go undiagnosed, but I think that's only a problem if it's a problem as it were... Far more enabling to move the goalposts on accepted 'norms' of behaviour to be more accommodating for all; that greater tolerance, acceptance and understanding I'm always banging on about...

L&P

BD

[Viper]

Baddad, I agree with what you are saying about moving goalposts and the problem thing but it is a problem if these girls become anorexic. Early diagnosis and the knowledge that this can happen is better than ignorance. We can be aware of the problem and deal with it when or if it arises.

 

Viper.

Edited July 1, 2005 by Viper

[Kathryn]

This all confirms a pet theory I've had for years (and posted elsewhere, so depending on time scales I may be sueing!!) that because girls are 'naturally' more developed socially, they will be better at 'masking' autistic features.

The other thing they've missed out is that girls have a far wider accepted range of 'normal' behaviours than boys, so, again, ASD traits that ring alarm bells if presented by boys just appear 'quirky' in girls...

I disagree with you, Baddad, I think society is less accepting of girls and women who do not conform to the gender stereotype. Girls and women are assumed to be empathic and intuitive, maternal, accommodating, responsive, able to fulfil many roles...etc

 

A girl who would rather spend her day say, taking apart a computer than bothering with all this "people" stuff will stand out more, whereas boys are expected to do this kind of thing.

 

As for the "Extreme Male Brain" - now there's an oxymoron for you.

 

K

[baddad]

Hi Kathryn -

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one then...

I do take your point about stereotypes onboard, and agree totally that these apply equally to both sexes ("Computer Girl" was a bad example, though, as this goes into the area of 'geekdom', where i think gender is irrelevent! Works, though, for girl plumbers, electricians etc, so ). I am convinced, however, that the implications of non-comformity with these stereotypes are greater for boys than for girls, because the definitions are more 'rigid'. If you look at your own list of stereotypes, none of them (despite being twee and patronising) are actually that bad - they are in fact quite 'positive' traits! Girls who don't 'conform' tend to attract even more patronisinfg labels: Dizzy, ditzy, dumb-blondes. Not very nice, but less aggressive than 'W****r', 'T***pot', etc, and also less socially damaging than the 'sexually suggestive' stuff like 'creepy' or 'pervy' - is there such a thing as a female 'perv'? When girls do behave badly they are called 'Laddettes', with all the negative behaviours interpreted as male behaviours...

Another thing you'll hear often is how hard it is for women to achieve in the 'male world'. As that fairly rare thing, a single dad actually caring for his child directly rather than taking on a nanny or palming the child off to granny, I can assure you that it's very VERY hard for me to be accepted in the 'female world'. The suspicion is horrendous, both from the point of me being viewed as a 'sexual opportunist', or as some nasty bully who has somehow managed to 'trick' his way into a position parental responsibility. Our legal system not only endorses this latter view, but actually enables it!

Following that slight rant (sorry - personal stuff going on that is maybe a little too close to the heart of this thread at the mo!), I'll summarise by reiterating my firm belief that woman do have a far broader palette of 'accepted' behaviours than men, and my equally firm conviction that the best way forward is to broaden the pallette for everyone, rather than to 'narrow' things further, which seems to be the social climate at the moment.

Oh, for the record, I LOVE women - I'm not some twisted, bitter woman hater with a chip on his shoulder (i'm very well balanced in fact - a chip on each shoulder! )

 

Viper- 100% agreement - anorexia is not an issue that can be ignored, and i have no doubt that eating disorders of this nature would be more prevelant in the ASD community - a good reason for 'identifying' traits as suggested. With that said, however, I'm not sure that anorexia would be symptomatic of girls with ASD's, but that girls with ASD's would be more inclined to extreme responses to (i.e.) body dismorphia... sort of a 'chicken and egg' thing, and, possibly only marginally relevent. Wouldn't it be great if that 'broader pallette' I mentioned above actually challenged some of the stereotypes that cause image consciousness rather than trying to manage the effects of those stereotypes?

 

L&P

BD

[florrie]

I was so relieved to see this topic because I have believed for some time that my eating disorder was related to my asd and i have real difficulties getting my asd recognised because it is so well masked, nurtrition has been one of my obssessive interests, I know as much and probably more than anyone on nutrition, photographic memory for charts, I know the nutritional components of all the different green leaves etc but haven't found a way to apply apply my knowledge in a useful way due to the information processing problems, this has lead me to being very obssessive with food, eating only raw food thinking it would help asd but eventually lead to nutritional problems, also can't organise meals so eat same thing every day usually salad and fruit, can't deviate.

 

When i was younger before I became interested in nutrition, and when I reached an adult and could eat what I chose, I would binge eat cakes bisuits chocolate and nothing else and then would feel sick and got fat which I hated and resulted in fasting and binge cycle, but the underlying reason I believe was information processing difficulties and possibly sensory ones to a degree, Now I eat purely what I bleieve I should eat nutritionally, I never eat what I want because something like a croissant would make me want to eat 10 croissants, it feels.addictive to me, and because i now know the damage this stuff does to the body, i couldn't eat it.