Emotional Retard

[baddad]

Why do we always expect that those on the spectrum have to dedicate their life to 'improving themselves'.

'We' don't. But 'we' (that is society 'we') do have expectations of people that colour how we respond to them, and it is perfectly acceptable to expect people either to as far as they can and is reasonable rise to those expectations or to anticipate that they accept the consequences of choosing not to. That applies to the entire human race - not just autistic people. People who are capable of making reasonable adjustments and choose not to despite knowing that they will be negatively judged can't really then moan about being negatively judged. If I chose to, say, not wash, and there was no reason why I couldn't wash that would be my choice, but it would be totally unreasonable of me to then whine that people weren't 'accepting' of the unwashed me or called me 'stinky' or backed off when I approached them. People have to reach ther own decisions about if they can/can't, will/won't compromise, but even if it's something they genuinely can't change they have to accept the implications because other people have rights and expectations and needs too.

 

I think any relationship has to be a combination of working at it, and accepting as well. Otherwise it becomes an ultimatum ie. I will continue to love you if you - lose weight - become funny - are romantic - show an interest in sports etc. The person you met, is essentially the person you met.

 

Ahhh... if only love worked like that. But it doesn't. Because people evolve. People don't remain 'essentially the people you met'. Sometimes one person does, and the other 'evolves' away from them. That's not the first person's fault, but neither is it the second's, no matter how much it hurts the first. More often, both people change and they can draw together or drift apart, but they don't remain 'essentially the same'. In rare instances a couple may stay 'essentially the same', but statistics tell us how rare that is, and even then people can get bored of the same thing day in day out...

The worst scenarios are those which start out with lies (not 'start out' start out, because all relationships start out on lies in the form of 'best behaviour' - but after the initial settling in period) - where one person seems to accept someone for what they are but is actually constantly looking to change them (the ultimatums you mention), or the one where someone pretends to be someone VERY different from who they actually are and after ensnaring the other person reverts to (usually abusive) type...

 

And those changes don't have to be huge, they can be quite minor. It can be with absolute regret and a huge sense of loss that one person realises however they feel about another person the relationship isn't going to 'work' for either of them.

 

L&P

 

BD

[baddad]

Baddad, in view of your strongly felt views on a number of issues I think it would be helpful to know whether you are expressing them as an 'insider' or an 'outsider'.

 

Why? And helpful for who? And where does this notion of 'insider / outsider' arise from?

 

It is, in either event, an absolute irrelevency, as has been shown countless times previously on the forum... either answer would provide a justification for (inaccurate) gainsaying arguments; either 'you couldn't possibly know because you're not autistic' or 'you couldn't possibly know because you are autistic', or, if neither of those fit the bill 'you couldn't possibly know because everyone's different'.

 

And what if I am, but don't know I am and have never sought diagnosis - either because I don't realise I am or because I'm 'in denial'? Or what if I'm not but I've home diagnosed and believe I am, or have paid for a dx from an 'autism friendly' private consultant? Or maybe I have 'traits'? Maybe I'm rainman? Maybe I'm the man who put the 'typical' in neurotypical. Maybe I'm the woman who put the typical in neurotypical (that's been suggested more than once in the past, along with all the other combinations and you wouldn't believe how many secret identities!)

 

Perhaps I'm a kind of autism prostitute 'I'll be whatever you want me to be as long as the price is right, honeybun' Why not start a poll - see what people think I am? Just stick to 'autie/nt' though, 'cos otherwise you could get some very offensive answers! I might even vote myself!

 

Please don't (or do) draw any conclusions from the above, but don't forget there's no smoke without fire and whatever people say I am that's what I'm not, to quote Fireman Sam and the Arctic Monkeys. To accumulate you have to speculate, so speculate away. Let me know the result, because I'm curious now myself...

 

Sorry. I'm being facetious. In answer to the question 'Is you is or is you aint' I would have to put myself down as a 'don't know'. Or a 'don't care'. Or a 'not telling'. Because that is much more fun than just having a label...

 

 

L&P

 

BD

 

(aka 'Captain Autism' - mild mannered NT by day, cloak and underpants dagger autistic crusader against injustice by night (weekends by appointment only at time-and-a-half)

 

I arsk ya!

[Mumble]

I think it would be helpful to know whether you are expressing them as an 'insider' or an 'outsider'.

That suggests that there exists only a dichotomy of experience. I really don't like the idea that as someone on the spectrum I'm thought of as an 'insider'. I don't believe it gives my any special insight into the lives and experiences of others on the spectrum, any more than I'm assuming being NT gives individuals access to the lives and experiences of other NTs. In fact, I find it very difficult to identify with the experiences/perceptions/beliefs of many on the spectrum and don't feel that that's where I fit or representative of my identity. I believe we can only ever be an full insider to ourselves (and even then we're likely to make incorrect judgements about what's going on in our heads - that's human nature) and that in trying to understand anyone else we will always be an outsider, whatever attributes - gender, spectrumness, age, etc - that we share. But that doesn't mean we can't know and experience anything that others do as we can make a judgement between interpretations and work out rationally which is more likely to be the case and we can to various degrees use sympathy/empathy in combination with own own life experiences to try and understand what someone else is experiencing/feeling. I feel it is far too simplistic though to say that those who fit a particular category 'get it' and those who don't, don't.

[KezT]

Why? And helpful for who? And where does this notion of 'insider / outsider' arise from?

 

It is, in either event, an absolute irrelevency, as has been shown countless times previously on the forum... either answer would provide a justification for (inaccurate) gainsaying arguments; either 'you couldn't possibly know because you're not autistic' or 'you couldn't possibly know because you are autistic', or, if neither of those fit the bill 'you couldn't possibly know because everyone's different'.

 

And what if I am, but don't know I am and have never sought diagnosis - either because I don't realise I am or because I'm 'in denial'? Or what if I'm not but I've home diagnosed and believe I am, or have paid for a dx from an 'autism friendly' private consultant? Or maybe I have 'traits'? Maybe I'm rainman? Maybe I'm the man who put the 'typical' in neurotypical. Maybe I'm the woman who put the typical in neurotypical (that's been suggested more than once in the past, along with all the other combinations and you wouldn't believe how many secret identities!)

 

Perhaps I'm a kind of autism prostitute 'I'll be whatever you want me to be as long as the price is right, honeybun' Why not start a poll - see what people think I am? Just stick to 'autie/nt' though, 'cos otherwise you could get some very offensive answers! I might even vote myself!

 

Please don't (or do) draw any conclusions from the above, but don't forget there's no smoke without fire and whatever people say I am that's what I'm not, to quote Fireman Sam and the Arctic Monkeys. To accumulate you have to speculate, so speculate away. Let me know the result, because I'm curious now myself...

 

Sorry. I'm being facetious. In answer to the question 'Is you is or is you aint' I would have to put myself down as a 'don't know'. Or a 'don't care'. Or a 'not telling'. Because that is much more fun than just having a label...

 

 

L&P

 

BD

 

(aka 'Captain Autism' - mild mannered NT by day, cloak and underpants dagger autistic crusader against injustice by night (weekends by appointment only at time-and-a-half)

 

I arsk ya!

 

LOL I'm pretty certin I know what youare - shall I tell?

[baddad]

LOL I'm pretty certin I know what youare - shall I tell?

 

Does it rhyme with 'ocky ugger' by any chance?

 

Or maybe just 'lovely chap' for taking in such good spirits what many would hoist their skirts and run screaming 'victim' over?

 

[Mumble]

Or maybe just 'lovely chap' for taking in such good spirits what many would hoist their skirts and run screaming 'victim' over?

Ah ha, so he identifies with those able to hoist their skirts, hence suggesting the wearing of a skirt himself... Extra evidence for my 'professional' dx I'm preparing.

[baddad]

Ah ha, so he identifies with those able to hoist their skirts, hence suggesting the wearing of a skirt himself... Extra evidence for my 'professional' dx I'm preparing.

 

 

Ahhh, but I am half Scottish... is anything worn under the kilt? No, it's all in perfect working order...

 

Heehee. been a few years since I got the chance to show that one the light of day (ooer missus!)

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................

 

Let the wind blow high

Let the wind blow low

Through the streets in my kilt I go

All the lasses shout 'Oh No'

Put it away, baddad, you're frightening the horses....

Edited July 13, 2011 by baddad

[Mumble]

Ahhh, but I am half Scottish... is anything worn under the kilt? No, it's all in perfect working order...

 

Heehee. been a few years since I got the chance to show that one the light of day (ooer missus!)

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................

 

Let the wind blow high

Let the wind blow low

Through the streets in my kilt I go

All the lasses shout 'Oh No'

Put it away, baddad, you're frightening the horses....

Now what was this thread about?

 

Ah yes. Still on-topic.

[baddad]

Now what was this thread about?

 

Ah yes. Still on-topic.

 

Now that's not nice, is it?

 

Still on Topic...

That said, just barely, so let's suggest anyone wanting to add to the recent developments do so in the other thread you so rudely thoughtfully provided

 

[indiscreet]

Why? And helpful for who?

For those who read your posts.

 

And where does this notion of 'insider / outsider' arise from?

It was a way of referring to those on the spectrum and those who are not. When I join a forum relating to a particular interest I assume that other posters have the same interest. Therefore on this forum I expect to find people on the spectrum themselves or who have a child who is.

[indiscreet]

That suggests that there exists only a dichotomy of experience. I really don't like the idea that as someone on the spectrum I'm thought of as an 'insider'. I don't believe it gives my any special insight into the lives and experiences of others on the spectrum, any more than I'm assuming being NT gives individuals access to the lives and experiences of other NTs.

Mumble, maybe it was a wrong choice of words. I assume that most people on this forum are on the spectrum. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see why someone who isn't would want to join - and contribute - unless they have a child who is.

[Mumble]

Mumble, maybe it was a wrong choice of words. I assume that most people on this forum are on the spectrum. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see why someone who isn't would want to join - and contribute - unless they have a child who is.

Most people on this forum are parents of children on the spectrum (some of those parents are on the spectrum themselves). Until recently there were fairly few adults on the spectrum. There are also a splattering of others: partners, grand/step-parents, professionals, researchers, teachers, etc. There was a thread with poll somewhere asking who people were. As long as people are genuinely interested and not selling snake-oils, I don't mind what their backgrounds are.

[baddad]

For those who read your posts.

 

 

 

I've been posting on this forum for 7 years. This is the first time it's ever been suggested that those reading my posts need to know whether I'm autistic or not. Having seen all variations of the themes I mentioned where autistic people are patronised in one direction and NT's in the other I'm quite happy to just plain ol' 'Baddad' and judged for what I say, not the wiring that moves the lips.

 

What I say is usually interesting enough in it's own right - which is why I tend to get so much attention - just enjoy that, and don't worry about whether i yam or yain't, just marvel at how often I'm right!

[darkshine]

The worst scenarios are those which start out with lies (not 'start out' start out, because all relationships start out on lies in the form of 'best behaviour' - but after the initial settling in period) - where one person seems to accept someone for what they are but is actually constantly looking to change them (the ultimatums you mention), or the one where someone pretends to be someone VERY different from who they actually are and after ensnaring the other person reverts to (usually abusive) type...

Just want to correct a false assumption - not all relationships start out on lies!!!

 

 

I've been posting on this forum for 7 years. This is the first time it's ever been suggested that those reading my posts need to know whether I'm autistic or not. Having seen all variations of the themes I mentioned where autistic people are patronised in one direction and NT's in the other I'm quite happy to just plain ol' 'Baddad' and judged for what I say, not the wiring that moves the lips.

 

What I say is usually interesting enough in it's own right - which is why I tend to get so much attention - just enjoy that, and don't worry about whether i yam or yain't, just marvel at how often I'm right!

Did you ever get an award for being so big headed? Maybe we could create one?

 

I think the whole insider/outsider thing is irrelevant cuz everyone is something and we aren't all necessarily the same "somethings" IYSWIM - for instance, we are all using this forum so technically we are insiders but we don't all agree so we are then 'in' and 'out' within the topics presented, not to mention all the differences between people and their circumstance - it would get pretty confusing...

 

For me, I have a hard enough job acting human and definitely don't feel like an 'insider' with that, but then loads of people bare their souls to me so does that mean I'm 'in' then? And because I display emotions and thoughts and actions that are deemed to be human does that prove it - even despite how I feel?

 

Personally I don't care what BD is (ASD/NT) cuz its irrelevant, you listen to what he says and then take away what is useful (or not) as the case may be - I'm all for freedom of speech - even when I wish he wouldn't do/say certain things!!!!

[baddad]

Just want to correct a false assumption - not all relationships start out on lies!!!

 

The vast majority do... only ikkle white ones, like not farting in front of each other, best underwear, tidying up, helping with the housework without moaning, OFFERING to make a cup of tea letting him/her choose the video/have the remote etc, but these ikkle white one's can become big issues further down the road...

 

 

Did you ever get an award for being so big headed? Maybe we could create one?

 

several - look for any posts by a member called 'Hev'.

 

Personally I don't care what BD is (ASD/NT) cuz its irrelevant, you listen to what he says and then take away what is useful (or not) as the case may be

 

Depends on 'useful'. It would be lovely if 'useful' always meant relevent/pertinent/helpful, but it can also mean 'that which reinforces what I already believe' which can be anything but relevent, pertinent, helpful... That's not a comment on anyone, anything or any situation specifically, just a general observation.

 

[darkshine]

Depends on 'useful'. It would be lovely if 'useful' always meant relevent/pertinent/helpful, but it can also mean 'that which reinforces what I already believe' which can be anything but relevent, pertinent, helpful... That's not a comment on anyone, anything or any situation specifically, just a general observation.

 

If there's one thing this forum is teaching me: its the extreme awkwardness in selecting the right words

 

Either that or that some people perhaps purposefully over interpret, twist and pick apart everything you say... hmmm... I am actually not sure on this one!?!

 

Maybe it's fine so long as I know what I mean

[baddad]

If there's one thing this forum is teaching me: its the extreme awkwardness in selecting the right words

 

Either that or that some people perhaps purposefully over interpret, twist and pick apart everything you say... hmmm... I am actually not sure on this one!?!

 

Maybe it's fine so long as I know what I mean

 

Ohhhh... and I was so careful about saying it just being a general observation! I think 'purposely over interpret' would, for the most part, be the wrong conclusion, but language, context and even timing might make it feel that way sometimes!

 

In this case, for example, I had just finished writing in another thread about the dangers of parent's hearing what they want to hear at (i.e.) CAMHS and taking dangerous negative reinforcers from it. You wouldn't know that, and I wouldn't consciously respond with that in mind, but it's easy to 'jump the grooves'...

 

Best thing is to assume people aren't trying to be deliberately twisty or picky. Chances are they were just trying to clarify, and if they weren't they'll probably reveal that further on... It is always a good idea to think about why someone might have posted something (as I've highlighted throughout this particular thread from my opening post onwards), but to give the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Karen A]

I don't doubt that anyone can change, if they really want to. But to what degree? Not being on the spectrum, but listening to what others have said about the social/emotional difficulties they experience, it would seem that even when they try, these skills are book learnt, rote learnt, often with no real understanding of how to apply or adapt that learning into the many and varied situations and circumstances that confront us all. So, although there may be 'improvement' it will surely NEVER become automatic and instinctive as others function (although that too is on a spectrum).

 

Hi.

I feel very sad having read this.I have Ben who is 13 now and has AS.I know he has many of the difficulties you mention.However he has made huge progress in how he copes with relationships.I hope that if he wishes he may one day find someone with whom he can have a great relationship based on mutual acceptance and equality.I would not want him to end up with someone who feels the need to look after him neither would I expect him to believe that a partner should just accept that he can't manage relationships in any way other than what has been learned by rote learning.

Perhaps I have too higher expectations but then he has spent many years showing me that he can do things some people would say a person with ASD should not be able to do.

Karen.

[Karen A]

Baddad, in view of your strongly felt views on a number of issues I think it would be helpful to know whether you are expressing them as an 'insider' or an 'outsider'.

 

I don't come here very often at the minute but have posted enough in the last few years.

I am and will be ever grateful that in all of my time here I have never had to worry about whether I am an ''insider'' or ''outsider''.

 

 

Karen.

[Lyndalou]

 

Perhaps it's a moot point (or not - I may be a little unsure exactly what moot point means?!) but aren't people with AS prone to overanalysing or simply approach analysing situations/people/language etc from a slightly different angle at times from 'typical' people?

 

Speaking as a mum of a child with HFA and not as a person who will probably not have the opportunity to even get an assessment for AS, far less 'prove' I have the condition and as a person who has been accused of being 'overanalytical' of everything for as long as I can remember, I really hope my little lad will be loved and respected for the amazing person he will grow up to be. If he has to 'overanalyse' everything in order to become that person well so be it! End of.

[Lyndalou]

Hi.

I feel very sad having read this.I have Ben who is 13 now and has AS.I know he has many of the difficulties you mention.However he has made huge progress in how he copes with relationships.I hope that if he wishes he may one day find someone with whom he can have a great relationship based on mutual acceptance and equality.I would not want him to end up with someone who feels the need to look after him neither would I expect him to believe that a partner should just accept that he can't manage relationships in any way other than what has been learned by rote learning.

Perhaps I have too higher expectations but then he has spent many years showing me that he can do things some people would say a person with ASD should not be able to do.

Karen.

 

Supposed to be with above post....

[Mumble]

I feel very sad having read this.I have Ben who is 13 now and has AS.I know he has many of the difficulties you mention.However he has made huge progress in how he copes with relationships.I hope that if he wishes he may one day find someone with whom he can have a great relationship based on mutual acceptance and equality.I would not want him to end up with someone who feels the need to look after him neither would I expect him to believe that a partner should just accept that he can't manage relationships in any way other than what has been learned by rote learning.

Perhaps I have too higher expectations but then he has spent many years showing me that he can do things some people would say a person with ASD should not be able to do.

Please don't be sad or feel you have high expectations. What the heck is wrong with high expectations? We'll never get anywhere if we just accept what is as what is and never strive to improve. I know I have made massive changes and improvements in the 4 years since my dx. It hasn't always been easy, there's still a heck of a lot to learn/change/find ways round, but I have made some really significant changes in my thinking and behaviours, I think, generally for the positive. I'm doing things now I never thought I would be able to do. I'm doing things I wrote off within myself when first given the dx. But looking at it as a way of identifying need rather than an end in ityself has enabled me to progress and develop. I don't care if that sounds all evengelical or others are reading and thinking 'well sucks to you Mumble it ain't that easy for everyone' I've been in the 'not easy' phase and I've come out the other side. I have and will continue to have high expectations for myself and for those around me. It might seem overly simplistic, but if you accept a position of failure, that's what you'll be. There's an awful lot of people who have things far harder in this world. We all owe it to ourselves to make the most we can of who we are.

 

Sermon on the Mount over.

 

 

I may be a little unsure exactly what moot point means?!

It's a cow's point of view. Joey says so. :lol:

[Karen A]

For those who read your posts.

 

 

It was a way of referring to those on the spectrum and those who are not. When I join a forum relating to a particular interest I assume that other posters have the same interest. Therefore on this forum I expect to find people on the spectrum themselves or who have a child who is.

 

Hi.

As you may not know me very well.

Up until about eighteen months ago and having made thousands of posts I was neither of these whilst professionals debated about Ben's dx amongst themselves.

I have been round long enough to be able to estimate that the most common reason for coming to the Forum is in looking for information as either a worried parent or confused undiagnosed adult.

Another reason is where a partner of a person with AS is motivated enough and aware enough to come here and try to understand more about AS in order to help with difficulties they may be having.

Another group of people are those who happen to have a professional interest in AS or knowledge that they use to support others.Although the majority of these people are also parents of people with AS there is no rule that says this has to be the case.

I have been very fortunate to come across some excellent people in the last few years who have contributed vast amounts to the field of ASD I could not care and would not dream of asking whether they have ASD,are parents of people with ASD or whatever.

If any organisation had a policy of including only those with specific features and excluded others some people would consider that discriminatory.

It would appear that the Forum does not live up to your expectations however last time I looked at the criteria for membership the rules were very clear.

 

Karen.

[Karen A]

Perhaps it's a moot point (or not - I may be a little unsure exactly what moot point means?!) but aren't people with AS prone to overanalysing or simply approach analysing situations/people/language etc from a slightly different angle at times from 'typical' people?

 

Speaking as a mum of a child with HFA and not as a person who will probably not have the opportunity to even get an assessment for AS, far less 'prove' I have the condition and as a person who has been accused of being 'overanalytical' of everything for as long as I can remember, I really hope my little lad will be loved and respected for the amazing person he will grow up to be. If he has to 'overanalyse' everything in order to become that person well so be it! End of.

 

Hi.

I don't know.

I don't know what typical is.

All I know is it is not me.

But then professionals told me they would never figure me out. <'>

Karen.

[Karen A]

Please don't be sad or feel you have high expectations. What the heck is wrong with high expectations? We'll never get anywhere if we just accept what is as what is and never strive to improve. I know I have made massive changes and improvements in the 4 years since my dx. It hasn't always been easy, there's still a heck of a lot to learn/change/find ways round, but I have made some really significant changes in my thinking and behaviours, I think, generally for the positive. I'm doing things now I never thought I would be able to do. I'm doing things I wrote off within myself when first given the dx. But looking at it as a way of identifying need rather than an end in ityself has enabled me to progress and develop. I don't care if that sounds all evengelical or others are reading and thinking 'well sucks to you Mumble it ain't that easy for everyone' I've been in the 'not easy' phase and I've come out the other side. I have and will continue to have high expectations for myself and for those around me. It might seem overly simplistic, but if you accept a position of failure, that's what you'll be. There's an awful lot of people who have things far harder in this world. We all owe it to ourselves to make the most we can of who we are.

 

Sermon on the Mount over.

 

 

 

You just keep preaching Mumble I will listen to a sermon from you anytime. <'> <'> <'> <'>

[Sally44]

Hi.

I feel very sad having read this.I have Ben who is 13 now and has AS.I know he has many of the difficulties you mention.However he has made huge progress in how he copes with relationships.I hope that if he wishes he may one day find someone with whom he can have a great relationship based on mutual acceptance and equality.I would not want him to end up with someone who feels the need to look after him neither would I expect him to believe that a partner should just accept that he can't manage relationships in any way other than what has been learned by rote learning.

Perhaps I have too higher expectations but then he has spent many years showing me that he can do things some people would say a person with ASD should not be able to do.

Karen.

 

 

I don't understand why that should make anyone feel sad. What I feel is sad is to keep making someone feel small and inadequate by keeping on arguing about, and pointing out, their partners lack of skills. When actually they may be trying their best, and trying harder than most other people to understand and function at the same level as others around them.

 

Western culture is very much about 'changing' your partner/self or 'improving' your partner or self. There are lots of other cultures that "accept" the person for what they are. That does not mean that therefore there is no responsibility to try to learn or improve. Of course there is. But there should be an acceptance of the person as they are otherwise what you actually love about them is their potential to change into the person you idealistically would want them to be. Whatever 'change' or 'improvement' a person makes it should be for their benefit, maybe the relationships benefit. But it should make the person feel good about themselves, and not make them feel inadequate about trying to fulfill their partners ideal or expectations. I think that if your partner feels like that about you, then they are with the wrong person. You can't turn a semi-detached into a terraced house and you cant turn a mini into a Ford focus. Everyone should encourage and support their partners [notwithstanding the usual arguments of any relationship]. But there is a boundary, and when that is crossed, the other person may need to admit they need to find a better match for them.

 

All relationships have to be built on respect. I think that when one partner wants to fundamentally change their partner that that means they do not have respect for them.

 

Autism is lifelong. Yes there can be huge improvements. But the person will still be autistic. And so the person who is making that journey of learning and improving should be doing it in a positive way, and not in a threatening way that the OP seems to be saying their partner is suggesting.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Sally44

[Mumble]

There are lots of other cultures that "accept" the person for what they are.

But how can you know what you are/can be unless you challenge who you currently are?

[Karen A]

I don't understand why that should make anyone feel sad. What I feel is sad is to keep making someone feel small and inadequate by keeping on arguing about, and pointing out, their partners lack of skills. When actually they may be trying their best, and trying harder than most other people to understand and function at the same level as others around them.

 

Western culture is very much about 'changing' your partner/self or 'improving' your partner or self. There are lots of other cultures that "accept" the person for what they are. That does not mean that therefore there is no responsibility to try to learn or improve. Of course there is. But there should be an acceptance of the person as they are otherwise what you actually love about them is their potential to change into the person you idealistically would want them to be. Whatever 'change' or 'improvement' a person makes it should be for their benefit, maybe the relationships benefit. But it should make the person feel good about themselves, and not make them feel inadequate about trying to fulfill their partners ideal or expectations. I think that if your partner feels like that about you, then they are with the wrong person. You can't turn a semi-detached into a terraced house and you cant turn a mini into a Ford focus. Everyone should encourage and support their partners [notwithstanding the usual arguments of any relationship]. But there is a boundary, and when that is crossed, the other person may need to admit they need to find a better match for them.

 

All relationships have to be built on respect. I think that when one partner wants to fundamentally change their partner that that means they do not have respect for them.

 

Autism is lifelong. Yes there can be huge improvements. But the person will still be autistic. And so the person who is making that journey of learning and improving should be doing it in a positive way, and not in a threatening way that the OP seems to be saying their partner is suggesting.

 

 

Hi.

I can't pass a lot of comment.I know very little about the original poster,the relationship and any number of complex factors that could all lead to a situation where verbal abuse was exchanged.I am not defending the use of the word retard in any conversation.

I would never use the term.However I will be the first to raise my hands in the air and admit that I have said things that are probably worse during heated exchanges in the course of over twenty years in a relationship.I am not proud of that fact but fortunately my husband would accept that what is said in the heat of the momment does not equal my not accepting who he is unconditionaly.

 

I think it is very risky to try to figure out whether one person wants to fundamentally change another on the basis of one word used in the heat of the momment.We have no idea of the context.

Also the other individual here may just be finding it difficult.

Ben would find the idea that I don't love him and accept him unconditionaly outrageous.However we have been on this path for years.

 

 

If when I first met my husband he had told me that he had been diagnosed with Autism [which he certainly isn't] I think I might have found it difficult to come to terms with at first.

I would not have called him a retard but I hope he would not have been making decisions as to whether to spend the rest of his life with me on the basis of how I reacted .

 

Both of my lads who are thirteen and fifteen tell me retard is used as part of usual teenage exchanges.Although neither of them would use the term they do have friends who probably would.It appears that the term may be used as an alternative way of describing an individual who is being stupid.It may not be as loaded a term for them as it is for me in my forties.

 

One of my lads happens to have AS the other one doesn't.Incidently they are both very bright.

I would not be pleased if either of them were called retard.However I would not take it as a fixed opinion about Ben just because he happens to have AS.

 

Karen.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Karen A

[Sally44]

But how can you know what you are/can be unless you challenge who you currently are?

 

 

I'm not saying don't challenge yourself or don't try to learn or improve. I'm questioning the "motive" or "pressure" applied by a partner onto someone else. My child is on the spectrum. I want and hope for him that he becomes the best he can be. But I want that to be a positive experience for him. For him to be motivated to do it for himself. If he had a friend or partner that was calling him a "retard" I would be questioning their motive and their respect and/or feelings for my son. That kind of language does not inspire, or build confidence, or improve a relationship. Everyone argues, and most people say things in the heat of the moment. But there are some words you don't use unless you are being plain nasty. I think that is one of them. It takes two to make or break a relationship. This woman appears to be putting all the blame onto her partner, and according to the OP this kind of language was not used pre-diagnosis. That would seem to suggest this woman believes that "Retard" and "ASD" go hand in hand.

[Sally44]

I agree the context it was used in needs to be looked at. If it was said as a teasing response to having said or done something daft I can see that a younger generation might use that word. Fashions do change. But for me it is an unacceptable word. When I was young it was "mong" and "spaz" that were the playground words. I never liked or used those words myself because I had a sister who has SEN. I'm sure the other kids did not know how hurtful it was even for me to hear those words. Because to me, the children using those words symbolised the difficulty my sister would experience when trying to fit in and be accepted by society. When the "special needs" bus went through the village with the obviously SEN children inside - I did not find it okay or acceptable for the kids to start playacting by using funny voices, walking like they had cerebal palsy or pulling funny faces.

 

Maybe the OP does not really understand "how" this word was used themselves ie. do not have an insight into whether it was teasing or insulting? But I took the clue from the fact that the OP said his partner never called him a Retard pre-diagnosis.

[baddad]

I'm not saying don't challenge yourself or don't try to learn or improve. I'm questioning the "motive" or "pressure" applied by a partner onto someone else. My child is on the spectrum. I want and hope for him that he becomes the best he can be. But I want that to be a positive experience for him. For him to be motivated to do it for himself. If he had a friend or partner that was calling him a "retard" I would be questioning their motive and their respect and/or feelings for my son. That kind of language does not inspire, or build confidence, or improve a relationship. Everyone argues, and most people say things in the heat of the moment. But there are some words you don't use unless you are being plain nasty. I think that is one of them. It takes two to make or break a relationship. This woman appears to be putting all the blame onto her partner, and according to the OP this kind of language was not used pre-diagnosis. That would seem to suggest this woman believes that "Retard" and "ASD" go hand in hand.

 

 

Hi sally - problem is the rest of the world isn't 'you' so no matter what you want/expect/desire for your son and no matter how unusual you were as a child in your responses to people who were different, and no matter what assumptions you might make about someone's inability to understand 'how' a word was used, and the 'dynamics' of a particular situation the reality is that the person concerned has to exist, adapt and respond to the real world rather than the artificial one you would construct for or offer them.

 

As far as my own opinion goes I feel I've seen clear indications that the dynamic under discussion here is nowhere near as clear cut as first suggested. I would go as far as saying that IMO it was actually misrepresented and probably deliberately so. I've seen no indication whatsoever that the women is putting 'all the blame' onto the OP, and several indications that the OP is using / trying to use their dx as the justification for making no further effort in the relationship and as a kakky stick with which to guilt trip and beat their partner into accepting that situation. Certainly, if the girlfriend accepts that situation it would be a 'positive experience' for the OP and would certainly 'motivate' him to continue to behave that way with both his girlfriend and other people he encountered in life, but it wouldn't be very positive or motivating for anyone else, and it would only be effective with a very teeny tiny minority of people and in an artificial environment where people preferred the roles of 'victim' or 'martyr' to 'equal'. I don't think that's a 'take' on the world anyone should be reinforcing, regardless of their relationship (mum, dad, girlfriend, boyfriend) to the person concerned or the psychology (NT or AS) of the person concerned. I think, in fact, it would be very disabling in a wider context, and ultimately revealed as abusive in both directions even if both parties were initially complicit in that abuse.

 

No, retard is not a nice word. We've established that. But there are worse things than 'nasty words', and there are even contexts when nasty words aren't quite as nasty (or even nasty at all) as looking at them out of context can make them appear. Personally, I'm confused by a youth culture that sees 'Hoe' (meaning whore or slut or even prostitute) as a term of endearment, and taken out of context it would certainly seem offensive, but whatever my feelings about that it's perfecly clear that it isn't always disrespectful or judgemental or even 'nasty' (other than in the positive sesne of 'nasty' which prresents us with another cultural/linguistic oxymoron and dilema). And even in situations where it was said 'nastilly' I can see mitigating circumstances where it's use would be completely understandable - say, for example, when a man came home and caught his wife in bed with the milkman! Thinking about the term 'emotional retard' I can imagine a scenario where someone might be being deliberately thoughtless, inconsiderate, demanding, abusive, selfish, ignorant, pig-headed, controlling, manipulative etc etc etc in ways that provided such mitigating circumstances, especially if they were waving a 'get out of jail free' card that they felt justified their behaviour.

 

(NB: I'm not saying that is the context here - I couldn't possibly know - but I do think there's some evidence of elements as a contributory factor.)

 

L&P

 

BD

[darkshine]

As far as my own opinion goes I feel I've seen clear indications that the dynamic under discussion here is nowhere near as clear cut as first suggested. I would go as far as saying that IMO it was actually misrepresented and probably deliberately so. I've seen no indication whatsoever that the women is putting 'all the blame' onto the OP, and several indications that the OP is using / trying to use their dx as the justification for making no further effort in the relationship and as a kakky stick with which to guilt trip and beat their partner into accepting that situation. Certainly, if the girlfriend accepts that situation it would be a 'positive experience' for the OP and would certainly 'motivate' him to continue to behave that way with both his girlfriend and other people he encountered in life, but it wouldn't be very positive or motivating for anyone else, and it would only be effective with a very teeny tiny minority of people and in an artificial environment where people preferred the roles of 'victim' or 'martyr' to 'equal'. I don't think that's a 'take' on the world anyone should be reinforcing, regardless of their relationship (mum, dad, girlfriend, boyfriend) to the person concerned or the psychology (NT or AS) of the person concerned. I think, in fact, it would be very disabling in a wider context, and ultimately revealed as abusive in both directions even if both parties were initially complicit in that abuse.

This explains what I didn't understand before a little better...

 

...............................................................................................

 

I think that relationships will always have expectations - both realistic and unrealistic and it is the responsibility of the individuals involved to throw them ideas around and negotiate what they want and where they want to go, and what they are willing to try to change.

 

Part of it for some people is they feel an urge for self-improvement in order to balance the dynamics of the relationship.

 

Even though one party may have problems, that doesn't mean that an unequal dynamic should be accepted OR expected and that the journey for self-improvement shouldn't occur. Basically I think that a partner should want to improve themselves, especially if there are issues at hand that are making life hard for their partner.

 

There's a lot of to-ing and fro-ing that happens, sometimes one partner takes the slack for a bit, then the other does, and sometimes its shared - this occurs financially, emotionally and physically, and also with the interactions we share.

 

If someone called me an "emotional retard" the first thing I would ask would be why? (this is assuming that the reason wasn't so blatantly obvious that I didn't know already!). As I see it there would be a clear reason for this term being used. Also the tone and context would be absolutely key to this understanding.

 

The bottom line to a lot of these things is communication - and it certainly seems to be key to a happier relationship.

 

Darkshine