Corcaigh Report post Posted July 1, 2005 (edited) For all the Irish (and non-Irish ) of the list, last monday evening there was an interesting program on RTE1 (Irish television), where David Jordan, an Aspie from Dublin getting a PhD in geology, was talking about his life and the support group he's set (http://www.rte.ie/tv/three60/this_week.html). He gave a VERY good definition of Asperger, as a "social dyslexia", for the lack of theory of mind of aspies and their lack of social skills. Sorry for posting this so late, but lately I have been all over the place The article can be still interesting though. I intend to contact David soon (you can do it through though Aspire, http://www.aspire-irl.org/) for my final year research project in college, which will be (of course!) on Asperger and how Aspies see the world. I am sure he will be more than happy to be contacted by anybody interested. Take care everybody <'> Martina Edited July 1, 2005 by Corcaigh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zemanski Report post Posted July 1, 2005 shame we don't live in ireland - sounds fascinating That would make our whole family dyslexic currently we're half and half! always knew there had to be some connection Zemanski Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corcaigh Report post Posted July 1, 2005 Well... about Ireland... the program was well made and there is a lot of awareness surging among parents, private organizations and university colleges, but the lack of public structures and ignorance from the Dept. of Education and Healt Boards is appalling... there is still a long way to go... TV programs like this will help, I am sure Martina Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mossgrove Report post Posted July 1, 2005 Interesting! My father has some aspie-ish tendencies and also has a PhD in Geology! Simon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corcaigh Report post Posted July 2, 2005 In the program David was explaining that his obsession with collecting and classifying stones when he was a child brought him to study geology. Generally speaking, aspies like science and engineering, and these are the fields where they usually excel. I guess that in order to study sciences like geology, zoology or botanics, you MUST have an obsessive mind indeed as they can be very tedious subjects (on an academic level, of course). My mind is absolute chaos and I must admit that I sometimes admire such a productive schematic obsessivity... my life would be certainly easier in a more oredered enviroment! Martina Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted July 2, 2005 I consider AS to be a condition in its own right and not a variant or type of autism. I'm not sure whether social dyslexia is a good definition of AS or not. It might be applicable for children at school, but many adults with AS are not socially inept providing they are with the right type of people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gordie Report post Posted July 2, 2005 (edited) I think "social dyslexia" is a great definition of Asperger's. Although Canopus makes a fair point ... with the right kind of people (i.e. my close friends, usually those I've made over the Internet, who I then meet up with in person), I can be quite good socially and act very "normally". So it's subjective really. James Edited July 2, 2005 by Gordie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted July 3, 2005 I wouldn't say the issue is subjective. I think that the social problems from AS occur mainly in childhood and decrease once one becomes an adult. The adult in question may be unsuited to certain careers where image and excellent social skills are of paramount importance such as stockbroking, but they will avoid such careers and choose something more suited to them such as biochemistry research. If a kid is obsessed with Triumph Dolomites and take little interest in conventional activities such as football then they are likely to be perceived as weird and probably have difficulty relating to their classmates at school. If an adult is obsessed with Triumph Dolomites then they are likely to be perceived as a classic car enthusiast and find it easy to relate to people with the same interest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mossgrove Report post Posted July 3, 2005 Canopus I think you are falling into the same trap that LEA's etc do when it comes to Aspergers Syndrome, that it a mild form of Autism that causes relatively fewer diffficulties. Many people with AS are far more acutely aware of their social difficulties in a way that people with apparently more severe difficulties are not. In many cases social and other support is needed in adulthood just as much as in ealier life but is not often forthcoming because people make assumptions. I agree with most scientific and expert opinion that Aspergers is a form of autism, I would be interested to know why you are so sure that it is not. Simon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted July 3, 2005 I think you are falling into the same trap that LEA's etc do when it comes to Aspergers Syndrome, that it a mild form of Autism that causes relatively fewer diffficulties. My time at school was hell and I suffered from undiagnosed depression as a result. I became statemented for SEN when I was 8 and my LEA had no idea what was wrong with me and why I had so many problems that they had never encountered anyone else with before. Many people with AS are far more acutely aware of their social difficulties in a way that people with apparently more severe difficulties are not. I wasn't aware that anything was wrong with me until I was about 10. I did not enjoy school and found much of the work boring and trivial, but I considered myself academically able so didn't think there was anything wrong with the intellectual side of things so didn't need extra help with spelling and maths like my younger brother did. I was bad at PE but then held the attitude that different people are better at different things and that trigonometry rather than team sports was my strong point. I also had unconventional interests but couldn't see what was wrong with that. My father stated they were extreme but my counterargument was that he had no interests and was just a couch potato. When it came to issues like handwriting I just thought the teachers were nitpicking over minor trivial details. When I was 10 I seriously started to think there was something wrong with me and that I was genuinely different to my brother and my classmates at school. The only problem was what was that something? The LEA and several psychologists had no explanation other than I was lazy, clumsy, disorganised, and held a bad attitude at times. I started to think that there was some psychological condition that was yet to be discovered. Sadly this exacerbated the situation as my parents and the LEA thought that I was going deluded. In many cases social and other support is needed in adulthood just as much as in ealier life but is not often forthcoming because people make assumptions. I only found out about AS from the support department at work in 2004 when I mentioned I had possible dyslexia because it was taking me a long time to produce a report. My LEA steadfastly believed that dyslexia did not exist even though my parents suspected me of being dyslexic at the time. I let the support department read my statement from 1989 and they claimed I could be slightly dyslexic but also suffered from (undiagnosed) AS. I had never heard of AS prior to this. I agree with most scientific and expert opinion that Aspergers is a form of autism, I would be interested to know why you are so sure that it is not. AS certainly is linked to autism, but I think that it really deserves to be considered as a condition in its own right. The reason I think it is being classified under autism is probably because the general public and the education community have difficulty in getting a grip on certain new things unless they are packaged in a format in which they are familiar with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alli Report post Posted July 5, 2005 Corcaigh Saw that programme, thought it was good overall but didn't like the constant switches to apes/monkeys in the zoo. Did that make you feel uncomfortable? Alli Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asereht Report post Posted July 6, 2005 Corcaigh, I saw the programme too and although it had some positive aspects it didn't cover nearly enough it was only on for 15 minutes and as alli said the ape thing was a bit weird. They kept talking about AS and showing apes? As for the support group they all seemed to be just sitting there doing there own thing and any interaction was very one sided. All in all I didn't learn anything I didn't already know and they didn't discuss any problem areas of AS, but thats Ireland for you. Brush everything under the carpet and we won't have to deal with it ,as in NO SUPPORT for teens with AS. Sorry to be blunt, it's just my opinion. T Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TuX Report post Posted July 7, 2005 (edited) I consider AS to be a condition in its own right and not a variant or type of autism. I'm not sure whether social dyslexia is a good definition of AS or not. It might be applicable for children at school, but many adults with AS are not socially inept providing they are with the right type of people. Canopus,i personally don't agree,. Within AS itself,there is,what could also be called a spectrum-there are people who are affected mildly,all the way up to people who are affected by AS severely,there's no one definition of all people with AS in my opinion,as it's just too complex. I am affected by my AS severely,and i do not think i have improved since child hood(i'm in my 20s now),and i know other people with AS who still have trouble with basic things. it all comes to how severely affected the person is in my opinion. Edited July 7, 2005 by TuX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted August 6, 2005 My father spent a lot of time during 1988 scouring hospital and university libraries for any books which described my problems. He had no success whatsoever on finding anything that closely matched AS. There were books on autism but he ruled it out as autism tended to include things like involuntarily throwing stuff at ceilings, being unable to communicate, and having little sense in who they are or what they are really doing. There just didn't seem to be any books which mentioned obsessive interests, poor written work yet high intelligence, bad at socialising, and general clumsiness. Mild schizophrenia appeared to be the closest match, but he was unconvinced I was schizophrenic and hoped I would never be diagnosed as schizophrenic because it could have severe consequences. Therefore, he concluded that the doctors and psychologists were right and that there was nothing psychologically wrong with me. It was all down to bad behaviour. I asked him if he could write a paper for a psychology or medical journal describing me in the hope that someone else knows of somebody with similar conditions. He refused on the grounds that it could bring shame on the family and he could be accused of bad parenting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites