Standardised testing

[pjsmum]

Does anyone have any information about the standardised/baseline testing that is done to 'predict' grades at GCSE and A-level? As I understand it, these tests are predictive against the norm, and since AS students are nowhere near the norm, it would seem to me that the results are not accurate for AS students.

 

Specifically....

 

My daughter was tested and adjudged to be below average, despite her AS diagnosis and the opinion of educational psychologists that she was in the top 0.3% of the population for intelligence (Wechsler testing etc...). As a result of the predictions, she was not encouraged to apply to the universities she was interested in (because she stood no chance of getting good enough grades to get in). When she did badly at AS, this was seen as vindication of the Alis test, even though many other problems were being addressed at the time (sleeplessness, panic attacks, new teachers, changes in routine, irregular periods, depression). When we saw her tutors, they were adamant that she did not have much academic potential, despite 10 As at GCSE, an academic scholarship at the school and personal references from some of her teachers. They saw the Alis test results as 'proof' that she was nothing special, and suggested some of the 'newer' universities as being better able to deal with someone with her problems.

 

Not impressed. Is there a chance that any universities look beyond the predictions during their assessment of candidates, or does she have to wait until she achieves brilliant A level results to prove everyone wrong and then apply?

[Suze]

No I don,t think they do,however its going to depend alot on which uni, and which degree course.You,ll have to contact each individual uni and check with them.An over subscribed uni and course for example will be alot harder to get a place at .Howver alot of these weschler tests measure intelligence in a completely different way to how an examining board rate would mark or test a paper.My son scores high on weschler tests but is in the bottom 3% for reading and writing due to dyslexia.However he also did very well in his GCSE,S due to picking subjects that relied heavily on practical and course work.Her was also given 25% more time in his exams , a reader and a scribe.I would,nt dismiss the newer uni s without chec king them out , and also ..is she ready for this?? you mentioned the problems she was having uni is a massive step...does she have any educational support in place?

[Mumble]

I'm so angry for you and your daughter and so angry that this still happens and is perhaps increasing. :angry:

 

I was told at school that I wouldn't get any GCSEs. I'm now just finishing my PhD.

 

I wanted to go to Cambridge for my undergrad degree. I got the necessary A Level grades, but at the time of applying, I was predicted one E grade so there was no point applying to Cambridge or some other unis I wanted to go to. I applied to a uni asking for two E grades. My school said they didn't think I would get this. I did, and a lot more. It actually worked out well for me because the uni I went to was very small (and for my course I was on a separate campus so even smaller - only 60 students living in my hall and lots of them postgrad). It meant I got a great deal more support than I would have done at a larger uni, and it set me up well for academia as I loved being there and enjoyed being one of the highest achievers. The attitude towards me was so different from the teachers at school.

 

I don't know how much unis go on predictive tests, though I do know they tend to go on predicted A level grades. Maybe you could get round it by contacting the unis she wants to go to, just set out the issue and concerns - you're not asking for greater leeway, so I can't see it being a problem, as she'll still need to get the grades. It might be worth contacting each unis disability service and going through that way as they may have more power (and understanding of the issue) to affect change.

 

The alternative would be to take a year out and apply on actual grades and use the year out in some productive way which may help in terms of careers later. It may also give her more maturity and stability to cope with uni and time to ensure all the support she may need is in place before she starts. If I could go back and do things again, I would probably have done this.

[pjsmum]

Thanks for the quick replies. She is, in fact, thinking about taking an extra year following A2, but she wants to do home study (even more time spent alone in her room?), which she claims is more effective anyway - she has always said that she has to come home after school and re-teach herself everything that has been covered in lessons. She would then, hopefully, be able to apply through UCAS as an individual, rather than through the school, although the school would still write a reference. She is being very mature in realising that she is not as mature as others her age(!), and probably needs an extra year to sort herself out.

 

It has been very confusing getting such mixed messages from the Ed. Psych and the school. On the one hand, she is obviously bright, but, on the other, she is not expected to do well. When we spoke to the Cambridge disability group, they seemed to imply that they would not offer lower grades, but might consider her ahead of someone with similar grades. They do have the special access scheme, but I'm not sure if that would be any help, given that her indifferent results so far already form part of her record.

 

Thanks again

[flappyfish]

My neice who is very academic but had struggled hugely has had to take a slightly alternative route. She only took 5 GCSE's because her education had been so disrupted and she ended up attending a PRU. She did A levels at a HE college but although she got a place at uni, she couldn't cope and dropped iout after only a few weeks. She spent the rest of that year recovering and the following academic year took an access course. Because it was academically well within her capabilities, she did brilliantly but was able to re learn how to cope socially and organisationally. She was given an unconditional offer to a very good university on the basis of her actual results and them being able to see her potential (they talked with her about post grad study)and starts this academic year. I would warn against too much too soon with an emotionally and socially fragile person. I do hope she gets where she wants to, but softly softly catchee monkey!

[Sally44]

It maybe that she needs a different type of school/college that is more able to meet her needs and present her work in such a way that she can cope with it better. I think the problem you are having is very typical for those parents who have children who are cognitively able, and yet, due to their diagnosis find it very hard to cope within a mainstream school or university.

 

But to get a specialist placement you would need to either pay privately, or for her to have a Statement which details the specialist placement in part 4 (which the LA would have to fund).

 

Have you spoken with IPSEA at all for any advice?

 

She may be able to achieve well at a mainstream college or university IF she has the level of support and adaptions that she would need to help her cope and produce a good standard of work.

 

Maybe other parents with older children who have done this will post on the forum.

 

I have similar problems for my 10 year old who is assessed on percentiles ranging from <1 to 92nd percent. He also has dyslexia and cannot read or write independently yet. So we too are having problems in getting him the support he needs to be able to demonstrate and record his learning. Otherwise everyone is just going to leave him and he will leave school illiterate with no qualifications at all. So I know how frustrating it is.

 

Consider things like smaller universities and ones that have a good support approach for students with AS. A reduced timetable, or taking the qualification over a longer period of time. A reader/writer if needed. Extra time with someone to help with planning and organising work and submitting course work etc. Suitable, quiet/calm rooms if lodging in halls of residence etc.

 

I would take the pre-exam assessment as a guidance of what could happen if she is not supported. If she is supported and in a placement she is happy in, she may do much better.

[pjsmum]

Thanks all for very sage advice. A long time ago, before she even started school, and before we had heard of Asperger, we knew that she would not be able to cope with a mainstream school. Even though we lived about a hundred yards from the local primary, we decided to send her to a private school. This was due, in part, to class size: there were 36 in the local primary, 16 at the nearest private school. She was always 'different' from the other children, and we started to try to get a diagnosis of whatever it was at about age 9. Meanwhile, she was put in a scholarship class, did well and won a scholarship to a private senior school. We thought she was coping... Private schools are big on sport, and she hated that - someone suggested she might be dyspraxic, but the specialist we saw said she wasn't.

 

Turns out she never slept. She was constantly tired, and stayed in bed nearly all weekend and every holiday. Once at senior school, she did well, but she was increasingly having what I can only describe as temper tantrums. If something wasn't right, she would rage for hours. I remember once her MP3 player ran out of battery on the way home...

 

I continued to scour the internet and eventually came to think she had Asperger's, and she was finally diagnosed just before her GCSE exams. By this point, after 16 years, we had learnt various coping strategies at home. For example, we knew never to take her to a town centre, never to plan anything without giving her a detailed itinerary, never to leave home without all the things she needed to take with her (bags of the stuff), never to tidy her room, always to check where she wanted to sit in restaurants before sitting down. The list goes on. She took 10 GCSEs and got As in all of them. Then she began to fall apart. Perhaps because she finally had a diagnosis, coupled with the fact that she was studying Psychology, she became very anxious about the lack of control she had over her daily life. She hated the fact that she couldn't leave the school if she didn't have any lessons. She began counselling, and it became apparent that she did not actually learn anything in lessons - she would come home and teach herself what had been covered that day. Obviously, with the amount of work involved in A-level, this was too much for her. Despite her academic background, the school insisted that her 'potential' was limited because their Alis tests showed that she would only get Bs in the subjects she was taking. When we queried this, and reminded the school of her Asperger's, we asked if this might skew the results of this baseline testing stuff, but nobody seemed to know.

 

The school called in an educational psychologist, who was the one who confirmed how bright she is, and said she should be achieving much higher than she was (by this time, she had taken AS level exams and failed them). There were suggestions on how to improve my daughter's life, such as not attending assembly, where she frequently had panic attacks, and suggestions on adapting teaching styles, which were implemented to a degree, but did not seem to make much difference. When it came time to put in a UCAS entry, the school stuck to their line about her potential, and refused to endorse any application that did not conform to their belief of her ability. Since they have to write a reference, we were kind of stuck. My daughter, meanwhile, was really confused. She had no problem in learning and understanding the work she was doing, but was unable to translate this into exam success. While we believed that this was because of a combination of things, such as her discomfort at the school, lack of sleep and problems with interpreting exam questions, the school, of course, saw it as a vindication of their position on her ability.

 

As a result, my daughter did not apply to university last year, and has decided to take A-levels this year, working with distance learning colleges. While I'm somewhat concerned that this means an entire year spent largely in her room, I am incredibly proud of her determination to succeed and hope that it will suit her better. On the other hand, of course, we have to be aware that this system might not work either - the school might be right, and she might not be able to achieve good grades at A-level. In that case, we have researched other channels, such as the Open University, or the Harvard Extension college - but I really hope it will be possible for her to get in to a university where she will feel at home, and have the life she wants. Luckily, she has friends who are also taking a year before going on to further study, so we are doing the opposite of most other parents and encouraging her to go out. Often, she will just say she can't be bothered...

 

So thanks to everyone who posted a reply here. I'm quite encouraged by the advice and hope that we are helping her. I would still like to know more about these Alis tests though. I can't believe that something designed to test 'standard' students can accurately measure non-standard ones.

[Sally44]

There are colleges for adults on the spectrum. Not sure where you would search for them though. Most will be independent/private. It's such a shame that she has got to this age without a Statement that could have covered her until age 19.

Have you contacted IPSEA.org or the NAS.org to see if they can suggest something.

 

The school were definately wrong to insist that she did not need any adjustments or extra time for exams.

 

Has your daughter ever been assessed by an EP or SALT either independently or by the local authority?

 

She is to be commended for her effort, but she should have received support in an appropriate placement where she could have performed much better.

 

Even if she continues studying from home, it maybe worth getting an assessment from an independent EP who can give you and her some ideas of how she might study better, or perform better in exams. They may also be able to give advice on applying for extra time or adaptations or a reader/writer during exams etc. Or they may know of a local college they think is suitable.

[Kathryn]

Hi Pjsmum,

 

Sorry I missed this topic when you first posted it.

 

I'm afraid I don't know much about the tests but just wanted to say that my own daughter took an alternative route to university after getting no GCSE's or A levels. This was because things went badly wrong at school and she was unable to continue beyond year 10.

 

To cut a long story short (it's posted eleswhere on this forum) she did an Access to Higher Education course at the local college. She was worried she wouldn't get any offers as she had no educational history for universities to go on. She actually got 5 offers out of 5 and if this doesn't sound too snobbish, they were all good universities. The course she got into would have required 3 A's at A level. The fact that 5 universities conditionally accepted her shows that uni's do consider people who are capable but have slightly unconventional backgrounds. All of them sent information about additional support as well. It took her a long time to be ready to take this step (she's now 22 and just starting her degree) but she has got there in the end and not too far behind her peers.

 

So if A levels don't work out, an Access course might suit your daughter, if there's a local FE college which offers it. Happy to answer any questions you may have about it.

 

K x