Thoughts please?

[Calum]

Heard about this on the way home today. Lots of gaps as far as I'm concerned in the story but was it the right decision? Did care for the guy go amiss? No right or wrong answer here but wanted opinions... As a parent of a 10 year old aspergers laddie, I know how hard things are for them but as a parent I know how much this must've heart from a parents stand point.

 

http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/13/internet-troll-jailed-mocking-teenagers?cat=uk&type=article

[Suze]

Speaking as a parent of a 16 yr old.............I,m quite appalled by this.I can honestly say that my son would never behave in such a way and infact is the complete opposite and follows rules as a way of coping.So he would have been one of the first to report such behaviour.He uses facebook and I am one of his friends on it , I did this to check what was happening and who he chatted too etc.I also do this with my daughter as well as its important to know who they chat too and what is said etc.If anything my son has been the victim of bulling by others on facebook ..

......my view is that trolls come in all differing shapes and sizes just like victims do, I don,t think having aspergers syndrome makes you anymore likely to post nasty troll messages on the inter net.For whatever reason and circumstance he is a very disturbed individual , who needs to realise the harm he caused .

[Jade]

He sounds like a very angry and lonely young man. That doesn't excuse what he's done, but he definately needed help which obviously wasn't being given, or given in the right way!

[Tally]

I actually didn't know that internet trolling could be a criminal offense. I realised it was really annoying, and often hurtful. But I never imagined it was something you could go to prison for. I expect this person probably wouldn't have realised that either. Not that the punishment should be the only thing that deters you from doing things like this!

 

I heard about this yesterday, minus the Asperger's bit. My view has not changed since I heard he has Asperger's. He sounds like a really nasty person who needs to be named and shamed, but prison does seem excessive. The court order banning him from social networking sites is probably adequate to prevent him from doing it again. If he breeched the court order, prison might be appropriate then. But it does seem a bit over the top.

[Kathryn]

I agree with you Tally. People say shocking and hurtful things on the internet because they can do so so anonymously and without fear of consequence. It's the cyber equivalent of scrawling on the toilet wall. This case shows that people can be brought to account, but if every internet troll is to be jailed for their actions the prisons will soon be full to overflowing. It's also giving this sad individual a chance to learn how to become a real criminal - a real danger if he has no moral code and a need to be accepted.

 

It's a shame that once again, AS has been dragged into this as a potential excuse and I hope this plea was not taken seriously. It does all the other law abiding individuals with AS no favours at all, and as a reason for this behaviour it just doesn't stand scrutiny. People do things like this precisely because of the maximum shock value and the pleasure they get out of imagining people's reactions. This man's attacks were creative, personalised and carefully executed. He may be working out some anger and feelings of powerlessness and that may well stem from issues arising from AS but it was not AS which made him do this. Besides, he had been cautioned for a similar offence two years ago so was presumably fully aware that this was wrong.

 

I agree with the parent quoted in the article that social networking sites need to take some responsibility. Open and unregulated access makes this kind of attack a constant danger. Measures such as restricted access and premoderation help to guard against it and it's a shame that the owners of Facebook and YouTube are not also held to account when something like this happens. I think teenagers in particular need to be constantly educated about the internet - it is not a private space unless you make it so, and not everybody who lurks on it is your "friend" but people unthinkingly treat it as such. A certain amount of distrust is always a sensible idea. Just as you wouldn't leave your front door unlocked when you go out, you shouldn't leave yourself open to attack by putting sensitive information where everyone can see it. So I think people who set up these "memorial" pages or sites where anyone can post, must take some responsibility too.

 

K x

Edited September 14, 2011 by Kathryn

[baddad]

The autism 'get out of jail free' card obviously didn't work in this case - which can only be a good thing - but the fact that it's becoming far more common for it to be played at all in cases like these can only be a bad thing.

 

The NAS should be jumping all over this kind of stuff, but having said that how many parents, hand on heart, if their children were in trouble for something would tell a defence team NOT to use it? And there's the rub...

 

The simple question is this: Did he know his messages would offend or upset people? Yes. Is he capable of knowing that if you upset or offend people there may be consequence? Yes. Taking those factors into consideration 'Aspergers' (and it would be nice to know if this was an 'expert witness' dx or a pre-existing dx) is an irrelevancy, and shouldn't have been brought up in the first place. Sadly, for many reading that article it'll be a case of 'Here, Aspergers? isn't that what that horrible kid up the road's got? Yes, thought so... best keep your distance from him then, the nasty little **********.'

 

L&P

 

BD

[sesley]

yes another public negative of Autism. Autism is not a excuse of why thye do wrong but a reason,which should not effect the penalty. If they do play the ASD card they need to make sure the person gets the right help as part of the sentence.

[Tally]

Sometimes when Asperger's is brought up in a court case, it is not as a defence. It can be mentioned to explain to the court officials and the jury why someone might act strangely. Something like failure to make eye contact can make an innocent person look guilty, for example. Sometimes journalists just hear "Asperger's" and get all excited. So just because it was mentioned in the article, does not necessarily mean this man was trying to use it as an excuse.

[baddad]

Sometimes when Asperger's is brought up in a court case, it is not as a defence. It can be mentioned to explain to the court officials and the jury why someone might act strangely. Something like failure to make eye contact can make an innocent person look guilty, for example. Sometimes journalists just hear "Asperger's" and get all excited. So just because it was mentioned in the article, does not necessarily mean this man was trying to use it as an excuse.

 

That's a very good point,Tally. Dunno whether it applies in this case or not, but I guess we have to rely on the people who are advocates and expert witnesses and defence teams etc to make those points when they're quoted and to wherever possible make sure they're quoted accurately. The downside would be, I suspect, that finding reasonable reasons for introducing evidence of autism will just become a 'spin' that's used to exploit other preconceptions.

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited September 14, 2011 by baddad

[bid]

Hmmm, responding to Tally and Kathryn...

 

It's a difficult one. I have read about a few cases where teenagers have been so badly cyber-bullied that they have killed themselves. I guess you could look at it and say that if the police can be involved in physical bullying in the real world, and people charged accordingly, then the same should be try of cyber-space?

 

With regard to the AS angle. I'm sorry, but while I think that people with autism can be 'rude' or 'hurtful' by blurting out a thoughtless comment, I do not accept that calculated, offensive comments are the same thing at all. So I agree with those who have said that in while a dx needs to be common knowledge to explain lack of eye contact, etc, it shouldn't be used as a defense.

 

Bid

Edited September 14, 2011 by bid

[sesley]

autism has also been used as a excuse on murder case's where parents kill a autistic child and get off on a manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibilty,because the defence for the case has played the sympathy card with the jury that its very difficult to manage autism and to imagine themselves what its like to care for someone not Neurotypical.so when its the person with autism the victim the courts seem to discriminate that way as it seemed with that mum in Wales and the Indian lady who killed her 12 year old with bleach because she did not want the social workers taking him away to experts.It seems that autism/aspergers is very badly misrepresented in our society by the medai and the justice system.

[baddad]

It seems that autism/aspergers is very badly misrepresented in our society by the medai and the justice system.

 

Can totally agree with that (almost put a 'thumbs up to that' emoticon, but then realised it would have been totally inappropriate in the sense of what's under discussion!)

 

[av16]

My son (14 with AS) hates to see this sort of thing in the paper as he thinks everyone will think he's the same. None of these stories help people with autism, they're so tokenistic.

[spudulika]

My son is 10 and has aspergers. He was brought up to know the difference between whats right and whats wrong, and he does know the difference. If he was to do anything against the law then I would expect him to be treated the same as any person without Aspergers.

[noogsy]

ive read about this lad.

and i think it is such a shame.

i think we should all remember that asd people even some adults still need parenting.

and it is worth checking out what they are up to.

my 14 year old is minus his charger for his laptop at the moment.

because he has been challenging me with his behaviour on his laptop.

people with diabilities deserve to be looked after properly.

as for the get out of jail free card,i dont believe he should get that.

but i think there should be somewhere more suitable for him.

there are people trying to do reaserch on kids in prison with adhd and asd,

but they are being held back by the government and goveners.

because people at the top dont believe adhd and asd is relevant.

it is believed there is a high amount of people in prison with adhd and asd.

but the are refused medication????that can help stop there behaviours.

its really depressing.

we have a specialist who had been trying to acsess a borstal locally for 8 years and he is stopped because he might diagnose people.

soooo frustrating.