LisaKaz75 Report post Posted October 2, 2011 Leo is just 4 and will start primary school in September 2012 We already have a statement for him 15 hours one to one this year and then 32.5 hours from school age. However, the mainstream setting have said that they can not confirm that Leo will be able to attend mainstream till nearer the time, as it is dependant on how far he comes in the next 12 months We have visited an autism unit out of area, that certainly ticks many boxes. 6 pupils to 3 teachers per class, speech therapy very week and lifestyle and social interaction skills. However, we are unsure whether this would be suitable full time. We fell he needs some time win mainstream setting as he copies and learns activities, to try new foods etc from watching his peers. Many of the children at the autism units would be similar to him and ourselves and the setting feel a joint approach may be the best thing for him The issue is that we are generally getting the feeling that this will not be supported. Not because it is not suitable, but because of poitics and funding streams being split over 2 counties. The autism unit generally try and get children back to mainstream asap anyway, and I also feel that losing contact with his school friends for 2 years (or whatever) and then fitting back in would be hard for him. Am I unreasonable in pushing for a split? As far as I am concerned i dont care about funding etc.. The mainstream setting get one to one the time he is there and the autism unit only pay for 2 days transportation not 5! I personally can not see the problem? Do any of you do this? LisaKaz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justine1 Report post Posted October 2, 2011 Hi I think that sounds like a good idea. It does'nt seem like you have been given many options IMO. The fact he will only get transport two days to the unit can help you justify why he should only go two days a week and not five. My son has been going to an ASD unit for 5 mths (he went to a similar setting in another county for two months) it is attached to mainnstream and like you mention they do push them back into mainstream. The good thing with the unit is they make it a gradual process and work together with the mainstream classes. He used to spend just one lesson a week in mainstream and now does half lessons in mainstream half in unit every day. The mainstream class carries over things like visual timetable,now and next and targets that he has in the unit so it makes everything easier for him. I had gone to see a mainstream with ASD unit when I moved to this county, the SEN team almost pushed me to chose the school, I liked the unit but the mainstream part was rubbish so I decided not to go witth it.It meant Sam had to wait three extra months to get into school because the LEA refused transport, luckily they gave in because he is so happy now. I would go with what you feel is right for your son, if it does'nt feel right rather fight for what is right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LisaKaz75 Report post Posted October 2, 2011 thanks Justine! Sorry was not clear he will get transport to the autism unit whenever he goes there. was trying to say that it would be less cost than going all the time Think its so hard, I know either way if he does not settle we can go the other way, but feel he needs to have some contace with the main unit Will have to see how things progress LisaKaz x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suze Report post Posted October 2, 2011 Its also worth considering how will he cope with the 2 different settings.For some autistic kids it would just be too much to cope with , the 2 different schools etc in one week.Yhe unit sounds like a very good option as you,ll be able to access so much more such as SALT etc.My son was at a unit attached to high school , for us it was excellent and helped him develop enormously.Best of luck xx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sally44 Report post Posted October 3, 2011 I was thinking the same thing. Two placements, two routines, different peer group/staff. Although I understand what you mean when you say that you want him in a mainstream peer group for role models. BUT please bear in mind that our children have clinical neurological deficits, and if they could pick up social skills, behaviour "from observing", they would have done that from within the family and/or nursery etc. They can learn copying behaviour. But that is not learnt. It is rote, often without understanding, often with anxiety and feelings of being different and not understanding. Does the Autism Unit REALLY move children to mainstream? Have you asked them "how many of the children in the Unit access mainstream literacy and numeracy." Often it is none of them, that is why they need the unit because of the more experienced teaching staff, more strategies and approaches etc. I was in a similar position to you some years ago, but did not have the option of two placements. The ASD Unit became full, so I had to go mainstream. My son coped during years 3 and 4, but has been out of school for 9 months due to vomitting, anxiety etc. He has now been additionally diagnosed with an anxiety disorder which includes alot of repetitive behaviours. My advice would be to look at the environment - is it small, low arousal. Look at the peer group and their academic and social development - is it similar. Look at the teaching staff - do they have extra qualifications or expertise in the Unit. What does the Unit include automatically that they don't in mainstream eg. social skills group etc. HOW do they teach literacy/numeracy in the Unit - how is that different to mainstream (they may use things like Numicon, IT software as standard). What budget of SALT, EP and OT does the Unit get? Is that greater than within mainstream (usually yes). If school are struggling with him mainstream, they have a limited budget for SALT/EP and none for OT (usually), and it is for ALL the mainstream kids. You will probably get greater access to professionals via the Unit. Unless all professional input is quantified in a Statement of Special Educational Needs. The LA's maybe trying to push you one way or the other because having "half a day" in either placement, means they have "half a day" in either placement not filled. There will be other children who NEED the Autism Unit. And if you let that place go there are no other places available there and probably elsewhere (if there is an elsewhere). Might be better to try the Unit for one year and see how he gets on and whether they can feed him over to mainstream at all. If they can't, then the Unit is the place to be full time. As for his "friends", are there any local groups that local kids attend eg. beavers etc. And if he cannot cope there, he would not cope mainstream because the child:adult ratio is usually 1:6. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caci Report post Posted October 3, 2011 Can I offer a slightly different view on this ? I have worked at a primary school which has an ASD unit, and I have worked in both the unit and mainstream classes. They are VERY different. One thing which seemed to work well, was a child from the unit, who was academically able, being supported 1:1 by a member of staff from the unit, whilst he attended maths in mainstream. Playtimes and lunchtime integration did not really work, as mainstream is too busy, and not enough structure for most of the kids from the unit. One child only had a place in the unit for mornings, and he really struggled in mainstream each afternoon, even with 1:1 support. This was mainly because in infants, the afternoons are less structured. I think if a dual placement is handled well, and regularly reviewed, with good communication between staff in both settings, it could have huge benfits for some children. However, it is likely to cause a great deal of anxiety and confusion for a child unless the same member of staff supports in both settings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sally44 Report post Posted October 3, 2011 I was thinking the same thing. Two placements, two routines, different peer group/staff. Although I understand what you mean when you say that you want him in a mainstream peer group for role models. BUT please bear in mind that our children have clinical neurological deficits, and if they could pick up social skills, behaviour "from observing", they would have done that from within the family and/or nursery etc. They can learn copying behaviour. But that is not learnt. It is rote, often without understanding, often with anxiety and feelings of being different and not understanding. Does the Autism Unit REALLY move children to mainstream? Have you asked them "how many of the children in the Unit access mainstream literacy and numeracy." Often it is none of them, that is why they need the unit because of the more experienced teaching staff, more strategies and approaches etc. I was in a similar position to you some years ago, but did not have the option of two placements. The ASD Unit became full, so I had to go mainstream. My son coped during years 3 and 4, but has been out of school for 9 months due to vomitting, anxiety etc. He has now been additionally diagnosed with an anxiety disorder which includes alot of repetitive behaviours. My advice would be to look at the environment - is it small, low arousal. Look at the peer group and their academic and social development - is it similar. Look at the teaching staff - do they have extra qualifications or expertise in the Unit. What does the Unit include automatically that they don't in mainstream eg. social skills group etc. HOW do they teach literacy/numeracy in the Unit - how is that different to mainstream (they may use things like Numicon, IT software as standard). What budget of SALT, EP and OT does the Unit get? Is that greater than within mainstream (usually yes). If school are struggling with him mainstream, they have a limited budget for SALT/EP and none for OT (usually), and it is for ALL the mainstream kids. You will probably get greater access to professionals via the Unit. Unless all professional input is quantified in a Statement of Special Educational Needs. The LA's maybe trying to push you one way or the other because having "half a day" in either placement, means they have "half a day" in either placement not filled. There will be other children who NEED the Autism Unit. And if you let that place go there are no other places available there and probably elsewhere (if there is an elsewhere). Might be better to try the Unit for one year and see how he gets on and whether they can feed him over to mainstream at all [within the school that has the Unit]. If they can't, then the Unit is the place to be full time. As for his "friends", are there any local groups that local kids attend eg. beavers etc. And if he cannot cope there, he would not cope mainstream because the child:adult ratio [at beavers etc] is usually 1:6. Sometimes it is not just the ratio eg. 1:7 [one adult:seven pupils], it is the TOTAL environment so a unit ratio of 1:7, is much quieter, calmer and low arousal than the SAME RATIO within a mainstream class of 28 kids, 3 TAs and a parent helper IYSWIM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LisaKaz75 Report post Posted October 3, 2011 thanks everyone! so many different things to consider Yes the unit do often get into mainstream and I have struck up a friendship with a parent where this has worked for her son. Her experience was that it took a long time to reintegrate and that was partially why I was thinking one foot in the door as it were Leo does not have friends as such in his peer group so would not matter where he is (at the moment) it would make no difference who the kids are they are just faces, however he does have a rapport with some teaching staff. Interestingly this is different in term time than in out of school club and he seems to cope fine with that. The different room/ building have different people and he accepts it! The autism unit is 25 miles away and he would go in a taxi, there is no out of hours or holiday provision which would make things difficult at times The mainstream school is 1 mile away, but not the main school for my home. It was chosen as has good reputation for SEN support and TAs with interest in autism and again I have met parents and children who are happy there. The holiday club is there and Leo attends this now Think I thought (maybe naively) that to do both would be the best of both worlds and he could still access the out of school club that he has gone to for over 12 months now, and loves and access the support that is additional to his mainstream place Think I need to get the SEN co-ordinator for the autism unit to come and see Leo in his preschool setting and see what she thinks and also chat to his current SEN Thanks so much for giving me more avenues of thought!! LisaKaz x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
