chance of an Independent school place?

[kirky]

Ok, so we're waiting for the draft statement to come (hopefully before xmas). In the mean time i'm looking at alternate schools because H cannot stay where he is. I've been to see an independant school 45mins away from where we live and loved it. I know its going to be a battle to get him there, but my question is this..... I know that this independant school has places and are willing to take him and that my LEA have sent kids there before, i also know that all of the alternate mainstream schools with autism units my LEA is likely to suggest are full. Will this make any difference when it comes to them making a decision? H is getting very close to refusing to go to school, he hates it there. Is there anything that i can be doing now to help our case? He's got an appointment with the specialist who diagnosed him coming up because of his current anxiety and stress issues, would a letter from her help? (the independant school also said they had kids refered from this center as well).

 

marie

Edited November 8, 2011 by kirky

[Kazzen161]

I think any letters/reports from professionals stating that he needs small classes, staff experienced in ASD, clear routines, etc will help in your fight to get the independent school. The professionals should not name the school, but can put in things that (coincidentally ) can be provided by the independent school but not by any LA (mainstream or special) school. The LA may not take much notice of this letter, but a tribunal would.

[Sally44]

Any evidence at all that he worked better, or coped better in small groups or 1:1 is useful.

 

Before our tribunal I carried out a Data Protection Act search. These can take up to and sometimes over 40 days for all the paperwork to get sent to you.

 

But in those professional and school file notes we found alot of useful information including:

 

Professionals stating in 2008 that my son needed to be in a dedicated environment in groups of not more than 8 peers [this info was buried by the LA, and not given to us or the first educational tribunal we went to]; questionnaires the SALT had given to the class teacher about his performance of certain skills in 1:1, small group, whole class environments when he was supported, and when he was not supported. This clearly showed that he performed at his best in 1:1 and small group environments when he was supported by an adult; some of my son's work had been completed out of the class, and the SALT file notes stated that "xxxx became so distressed because he could not do the work in the classroom that he took himself off into the corridor and did the best work he has every done outside in the corridor." The SALT then wrote to the teacher asking "Do you think it is relevent that xxxxx did his best piece of work out the classroom in the corridor?" I don't think I need to explain how useful that was at Tribunal to prove the whole class mainstream environment was unsuitable for him; an assessment given to school by the OT where they failed to notice any motor co-ordination difficulties [which CAHMS and my independent EP immediately recognised] - this proves that the school and professionals were not competent enough to recognise all his SEN; a file note from the SENCO to the LA in 2009 where she states "although the Statement says xxxx may have dyslexia, no professional has confirmed this." The SENCO and the LA then did nothing to ascertain IF my son had dyslexia - again this was another SEN they failed to identify or address. This proved that the school and LA and professionals were not doing their job properly according to the SEN Code of Practice or the according to the Education Act.

You really need to thoroughly check the reports you do have to see if anyone talks about inconsistencies in learning, loss of learning, social communication difficulties, emotional difficulties, sensory difficulties etc too.

If you are going to do a Data Protection Act search, then try to time it so that you do have enough time to get the info before the deadline for submitting evidence to Tribunal, and also try to time it to after any letters you sent into the LA/school/professionals asking them specific questions, because they may tell you one thing, and then say something different in any file note they make. Also try to do it after any major multi team meetings.

As well as what you may find, it is just as important what you don't find. Eg. if the school say they have been in frequent contact with the EP due to your sons difficulties, but you find absolutely no evidence on file relating to that, then you can correctly point out at Tribunal that there is no evidence of any close working relationship or multi team approach as nothing was produced by the Data Protection Act search.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Sally44

[kirky]

Any evidence at all that he worked better, or coped better in small groups or 1:1 is useful.

 

Before our tribunal I carried out a Data Protection Act search. These can take up to and sometimes over 40 days for all the paperwork to get sent to you.

 

But in those professional and school file notes we found alot of useful information including:

 

Professionals stating in 2008 that my son needed to be in a dedicated environment in groups of not more than 8 peers [this info was buried by the LA, and not given to us or the first educational tribunal we went to]; questionnaires the SALT had given to the class teacher about his performance of certain skills in 1:1, small group, whole class environments when he was supported, and when he was not supported. This clearly showed that he performed at his best in 1:1 and small group environments when he was supported by an adult; some of my son's work had been completed out of the class, and the SALT file notes stated that "xxxx became so distressed because he could not do the work in the classroom that he took himself off into the corridor and did the best work he has every done outside in the corridor." The SALT then wrote to the teacher asking "Do you think it is relevent that xxxxx did his best piece of work out the classroom in the corridor?" I don't think I need to explain how useful that was at Tribunal to prove the whole class mainstream environment was unsuitable for him; an assessment given to school by the OT where they failed to notice any motor co-ordination difficulties [which CAHMS and my independent EP immediately recognised] - this proves that the school and professionals were not competent enough to recognise all his SEN; a file note from the SENCO to the LA in 2009 where she states "although the Statement says xxxx may have dyslexia, no professional has confirmed this." The SENCO and the LA then did nothing to ascertain IF my son had dyslexia - again this was another SEN they failed to identify or address. This proved that the school and LA and professionals were not doing their job properly according to the SEN Code of Practice or the according to the Education Act.

You really need to thoroughly check the reports you do have to see if anyone talks about inconsistencies in learning, loss of learning, social communication difficulties, emotional difficulties, sensory difficulties etc too.

If you are going to do a Data Protection Act search, then try to time it so that you do have enough time to get the info before the deadline for submitting evidence to Tribunal, and also try to time it to after any letters you sent into the LA/school/professionals asking them specific questions, because they may tell you one thing, and then say something different in any file note they make. Also try to do it after any major multi team meetings.

As well as what you may find, it is just as important what you don't find. Eg. if the school say they have been in frequent contact with the EP due to your sons difficulties, but you find absolutely no evidence on file relating to that, then you can correctly point out at Tribunal that there is no evidence of any close working relationship or multi team approach as nothing was produced by the Data Protection Act search.

Thanks a lot! Very helpful stuff. What does SALT stand for? We haven't seen any profesionals at all since his diagnosis 3 years ago, apart from the ed psych woman who came when he was being assessed for the statement that we haven't got yet!! How would i go about carrying out a data protection act search?

[Sally44]

SALT means speech and language therapist.

 

What diagnosis does your son have and how old is he?

 

A speech therapist should have assessed him as part of his diagnosis, and they should have had some input as part of the assessment towards the Statement.

 

The speech therapist is responsible for speech and communication [receptive and expressive - and he should have been assessed using standardised assessments such as CELF 4, which would have given age related or percentile or standard scores for each skill eg. word similarities, word finding, forumulating sentences, narratives, inference, comprehension etc].

 

The SALT is also responsible for social communication and emotional communication [usually from a language point of view] ie. teaching the child to be able to use social skills and language to interact such as talking on topic, holding a two way conversation, waiting your turn [for social communication], and his ability to recognise emotions in others and himself and use language to describe his emotional state.

[Kathryn]

i also know that all of the alternate mainstream schools with autism units my LEA is likely to suggest are full. Will this make any difference when it comes to them making a decision?

 

It may help. The LA should consult the governing body of any maintained school it proposes to name, and if the school is in a different LA, consult that LA first. If the school objects because they are too full, the LA should take them seriously, but ultimately the decision rests with the statementing LA who can override any objections by the head/governors and name a maintained school regardless.

 

K x

[Sally44]

In my Decision letter from the Tribunal, the Judge stated that by law they have to go with the parental choice of school unless: it is unsuitable - but it was suitable and my LA agreed; or the LA will say it is not a good use of their resources - which is what my LA said.

 

Then you need to prove that the current school cannot meet his needs. Or that he is not making progress at his current school. Or both.

 

To prove his current school cannot meet his needs you will need reports and written evidence of that. That will probably mean independent reports, and the independent EP to visit the current school.

 

To prove he has not made progress you will have to go over the reports you have had over the last few years and make a table of them. Has he made progress, or sufficient progress in listening/speaking, literacy, numeracy etc. Has he lost skills, made progress and then regressed is the gap between him and his peers widening. Look also at his emotional and social skills. Has he progressed or is he falling further behind and beginning to struggle with social interaction/friendships. Is he coping emotionally. Is he coping with the current school environment, or does he need a quieter, small class environment?

 

If your son needs SALT and OT programmes, then you probably need independent reports from them and all professionals to attend as expert witnesses.

 

You need to find out what your LA does have and could offer at the Tribunal on the day. You need to cover all the bases and have an answer for everything they say.

 

You need to keep a diary and chronology of everything. I made a note of every session he had in school, what was said, what happened, when he went, when he came back, whether I took him or he went in the taxi, what the specialist teaching said she had done with him [ie child led activities or actual school work - had he refused to go outside to play, had he got upset, had he asked to be taken home etc]. At the Tribunal the LA stated that my son would not be able to go to our placement because he had refused to go in the taxi for his sessions. So I took out my chronology and went through every session he had had and stated that he had been happy to go in the taxi. It was not the taxi drive that was the issue, it was where the taxi was taking him that caused him the anxiety issues so that we had to rever to my taking him to his sessions. The LA said he was making progress with his sessions in school, but then agreed that they had never asked the specialist teacher if he had managed to stay until the end of the session. So understand that your LA will be very 'economical' with the truth. They won't say anything that works in your favour. They will present their argument to keep him where he is, or move him to where they want him moved.

 

You need to know that your LA may well lie on the day and claim that things have happened that did not, or promise to provide professional input or therapies that they don't have. My LA claimed I had withdrew him from school and that he was not a school refuser! Fortunately I had ensured that I had letters from two GPs, Clinical Psychology, CAHMS and a Multi Team Meeting that I recorded which proved that was not true! The LA promised the Panel they would provide a specialist dyslexia teacher. So I had to point out to the Panel that IF they did that they would have to buy it in, and if they bought it in then their 'costs' for the current placement were incorrect. They would have to 'add on' the cost of each professional and therapy they said they would provide. In the end it did not go to costs, because the Panel found that the LA could not meet his needs in his current placement QED.

 

You need to meticulously go over all paperwork you have to see what evidence you can use from them. You need to visit any placement you think the LA may offer and you need to ask the kind of questions i've listed above. So that IF the school suggests a certain school you can respond that you have visited this school and it is unsuitable because .....

 

My LA did try to name the secondary placement, but we sought an Order from the Tribunal, which found in our favour and we could only discuss the primary years. You really need an advocate that knows SEN law, especially case law, because you can do an awful lot before you even get to Tribunal to stop the LA doing certain things, and you can request that certain case law is applied [if it is similar to your situation].

 

[Our LA tried to get an Order that all earlier documentation was excluded, so we had to issue a counter Request for an Order to allow it and you have to give your reasons as to why it should be allowed. So you really need someone who can advise on these kinds of things.]

 

IF there is another placement that is full, but the LA and Panel agree that it could meet need, then the Panel can Order that another place is made for your son at the LA's choice of placement. This would usually be done if it were a better use of resources. You need to be able to counter any such argument.

 

I wrote a letter to the SENCO of the school/Unit and asked very specific questions about the teaching staff's qualifications, the pupil staff ratio, the diagnoses of the other children, were they all verbal, did any have challenging behaviours, did any of the children have additional co-morbid diagnosis, did any of them have dyslexia/dyspraxia etc, what input did the children in the unit get from SALT or OT, were the children of average cognitive ability, which secondary school would these children be streamed into, did these children access the mainstream school lessons, did they go on school trips, how did these children access professional input or additional support etc etc. I also visited the Unit with my husband. The SENCO told us the unit was full. The LA EP said she would recommend my son was placed in the Unit. So I had to ask the Independent EP to visit the school and Unit. On the day, at the Tribunal the EP did not say the Unit was suitable because my EP had made it so very clear that it wasn't, and we also had the Data Protection Act information where the school SENCO had already said that my son was not suitable for that Unit - so they could not contradict themselves.

 

In our case my son was assessed as average cognitive ability on non-verbal assessments. He was in the only LA school which was mainstream but with additional expertise in autism. He had not attended there for 10 months. The next step up would have been into the Autism Unit. But it was not suitable because it contained non-verbal children and also those with challenging behaviours and those children were not average cognitive ability. The school agreed it was unsuitable for my son. So the LA had nothing additional or different to offer us, if they had, they would have offered it.

 

You have to think what your LA could offer - either additionally at his current placement, or any other placement they could offer. Is it suitable? The Panel will not agree to put a capable child into a moderate learning difficulties or challenging behaviour unit. So what evidence do you have that any other placement is unsuitable? My independent EP visited his current placement and I also asked him to visit the Autism Unit. He drew up a report about the two placements - but in the end it was obvious that his current placement could not meet need, and the ASD Unit was not suitable.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Sally44

[kirky]

Sally you have been really helpful!! I'm not aware of H being seen by a SALT at any time in the assessment for statment process. I am meeting with his form tutor tomorrow and am going to request all of his termly reports so i have a record. When he left lower school they said he was working at level 2a in maths, two and a half years later his goal for this year is 3a and he likes maths!! if thats not evidence of lack of progress i don't know what is!! How would i go about getting an independant EP? and will it cost me?

[Sally44]

For him to have received a diagnosis of an ASD he must have been seen by a speech therapist at some point for them to have confirmed he met the critera for difficulties with speech and language and social communication?

 

When was he diagnosed.

 

What was his diagnosis?

 

Who saw him to give the diagnosis?

 

Yes, an independent EP is expensive. Around £1500 for a report, about £1000 for a school visit and report about the school, and about the same again to attend as expert witness. You would need to pay the same amount for an independent speech therapist and occupational therapist. They would not need to do a school visit, unless it would be very useful to your case for them to see him in school eg. he may show avoidance behaviours relating to sensory issues which the OT could comment on. Or the SALT may observe him during playtime etc. But I cannot emphasise how expensive it is, and how unfair that parents have to pay this money because the school/LA are not open and honest. There is no incentive on LA's to be open because if they identify needs, they then have to meet that need and fund it.

 

Can you tell us what school year he is in.

[kirky]

He's in year 7. when he was in year 4 i went to the doctor and asked for a referal to the local child health and development centre. We saw a paediatrician and i said i thought H had Aspergers. She looked at reports the school had sent, observed him and saw us once more before agreeing with me and diagnosing Aspergers syndrome. He was not seen by anyone else at the diagnosis stage. Throughout his school life, from nursery he has been seen by early years inclusion officers, ed's, the psychology and advisory support team (several times) but no mention of speech and language or occupational therapy. I feel bad now, was i supposed to initiate that?

From the earliest reports written on him, they have said he needs small group work to progress. They have not ever specified less that 9 or anything, should i persue this on his statement ( when it arrives!).

Edited November 10, 2011 by kirky

[Sally44]

Usually children are seen by a multi disciplinary team of speech therapist, clinical psychologist, developmental paediatrician etc. Although the diagnosis is most likely correct, he should have been referred to these other professionals as part of the diagnosis.

 

And they should have [don't think it is compulsory] sought advice from at least a SALT as part of the Statementing process.

 

I would INSIST that he was assessed by a SALT NOW as part of the Statementing process OR leave them - because this lack of professional input and advice will be useful at Tribunal - and pay for an independent assessment AFTER the Statement is finalised and you've put in an appeal.

 

The fact that it said all those years ago that he needed 'small groups' means that that is what he should have had. But he hasn't has he. Again, I would just hold that thought and pass on all these reports to your independent EP, SALT [and OT if needed].

 

Does the independent school have an occupational therapist on site??

 

Does the school not want your son to go and visit them?

 

What kind of independent school is it. Is it part of a group eg. priory or senad group?

[justine1]

Usually children are seen by a multi disciplinary team of speech therapist, clinical psychologist, developmental paediatrician etc. Although the diagnosis is most likely correct, he should have been referred to these other professionals as part of the diagnosis.

 

And they should have [don't think it is compulsory] sought advice from at least a SALT as part of the Statementing process.

 

I would INSIST that he was assessed by a SALT NOW as part of the Statementing process OR leave them - because this lack of professional input and advice will be useful at Tribunal - and pay for an independent assessment AFTER the Statement is finalised and you've put in an appeal.

 

The fact that it said all those years ago that he needed 'small groups' means that that is what he should have had. But he hasn't has he. Again, I would just hold that thought and pass on all these reports to your independent EP, SALT [and OT if needed].

 

Does the independent school have an occupational therapist on site??

 

Does the school not want your son to go and visit them?

 

What kind of independent school is it. Is it part of a group eg. priory or senad group?

Sorry to go slightly off topic but Sam was 6 when dx'd and he was only seen by SALT for the first time in May this year (age 7.5)when he started at the ASD unit. The paed who dx'd him assessed his speech and language and the ed psych mentioned some things about speech and language when she assessed for his statement but until now he has never got a full SALT report. He just got a full report last month for his annual review and it was very interesting.

 

Dan(5 now but was 4 when dx'd) was seen by the MDT because where my boys were assessed they use the MDT to dx kids under 5 and then after that its just by a paed.So things do work differently. I would say though if you can get your son assessed by a SALT the report will help in an appeal and makes for interesting reading from a parents point of view IMO.

Edited November 11, 2011 by justine1

[Sally44]

If you are not going to tribunal, then I would agree. But the OP is already at the proposed Statement stage and her son has not been seen by a SALT.

 

I don't know IF the LA would agree to involve a SALT at this stage, and if they do it would delay the process, and there are set timescales involved which the LA have to adhere to. So the LA may finalise the Statement anyway.

 

Although an NHS SALT report may contain some useful information, IMO they are never very indepth and tend not to quantify and specify or carry out full standardised assessments anyway.

 

As the OP is looking at an independent placement, they are highly unlikely to get an NHS or LA report that will identify all needs and recommend the level of direct therapy for SALT, social skills, emotional communication etc needed/provided in an independent placement, so independent reports will probably be needed anyway. And the fact that the school/EP/LA have not referred this child to a SALT since he was 3, will actualy work in the OPs favour.

 

The OP would want their reports to be the most up to date ones. There usually should be a period of around 6 months inbetween standardised assessments. What the OP would not want would be for a SALT to assess her son, produce a weak report, and to then find that an independent SALT would have wanted to carry out those same assessments.

[kirky]

Should I get an assessment now or wait for the statement? I have found a local independent SALT who will assess him for a reasonable amount of money!