4-5 times a week 2 hrs sessions??? right?

[smileyK]

i got a friend goes to the gym 4-5 times a week and does 2 hours everyday she tells me she burns 900 calories in one session is this too much? or just right? don't know how to advice her further really at a loss atm?! be grateful some useful advice please! 6th day of wk she goes jogging

 

XKLX

[trekster]

That does sound about right as circuit training could burn 500 calories.

[LancsLad]

Smiley I do all my training with a HR monitor which means I can accuratly calculate how much energy I am burning per hour. If I am going easy it could be as low as 650cal in an hour up to around 850cal when I am going harder. These figures are for constant cycling or running so that is 60 minutes exercise in the hour.

 

If your friend is reasonably fit then I think she should easily do around 700cal an hour. The difficulty is working out how much exercise time she is really doing and how much time is between exercise blocks either between machines, warm downs breaks etc... if anything I think this could be a little higher than 900cal if she was going for it.

[A-S warrior]

its all about quality, not quantity. i think its much more effective to opt for 45 mins to an hour of full throttle intensity. last year i gained 8 pounds of muscle and got my bodyfat down to 6% all in 12 weeks. and i trained for an hour a session, i maxed out intensity and kept my nutrition absolutley air tight. cals lost per hour really doesnt matter. just as long as your diet is in check and your training is effective. and the best fat loss activity you can do, is to do a brisk walk first thing in the morning, in a fasted state (empty stomach). try and do a mile or 2 in the fastest time possible. and then have some metabolisum sparking food for breakfast like fresh pineapple, and some sort of protein source, the sugar in the fruit is fine first thing in the morning as your glycogen will be depleted so you wont store fat.

 

 

for more info follow the link to a topic i started a while back

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/27959-let-me-make-this-easy-for-you-succseful-dieting-tips/

Edited April 17, 2012 by A-S warrior

[smileyK]

my friend nearly passed out in gym today felt dizzy vision went strange she couldn't describe it she had brekkie before hand toast with jam and banana before work out like normal she can't work out why this happened today it scared her lot! she had wobbly legs she had stop before she fell off treadmill!

 

XKLX

[Tally]

By the way, Smiley is talking about herself, and is failing to mention that she is excessively obsessed with how little she eats and how much she exercises. Someone who faints in the gym is doing something very wrong and needs to discuss their diet and exercise regime with a DOCTOR, and not seek affirmation from people on the internet who have no medical qualifications and are not armed with all the facts.

[trekster]

Ask to see a dietician regarding diet and ask the doctor to rule out any other reasons for passing out.

[A-S warrior]

By the way, Smiley is talking about herself, and is failing to mention that she is excessively obsessed with how little she eats and how much she exercises. Someone who faints in the gym is doing something very wrong and needs to discuss their diet and exercise regime with a DOCTOR, and not seek affirmation from people on the internet who have no medical qualifications and are not armed with all the facts.

 

 

ahha! i wonderd where ive seen that name before, alarm bells where going off for me when i heard "fainted in the gym" it can happen to even the most advanced athalete, but if your the average joe just using a treadmill then its time to see the doctor and get assesed. just thought id add tally that most unqualified pepole actully know more than most professionals do, sounds strange but true, im sure someone lke lancslad will agree with me. anyway i worry about this persons saftey and wonder if its an idea to err padlock the thread? not looking for an argument and i wont reply if anyone comes at me, i just care about pepoles saftey and i feel that she may get false security and comfort from some of the posts and not deal with the real issue.

[LancsLad]

Smiley have seen this morning where this post might be leading to, thanks Tally. I do not want to sound judgemental but feel it might be a good point to share some of my own experiences regarding exercise and diet as a warning. Appologies for the length but there are a number of complex issues here.

 

I had reached a point in my life where over the period of a few years I had simply pilled on the weight. I am convinced that a key point in my life was a three year period where I had been on a crazzy cocktail regime of anti-depresants which I believe triggered the gain. I was then at college for some time and working very hard behind a desk or drawing board for hours a day and got little exercise and reached a point I guess of around 115kg which easily made me clinically obese. On finishing my course I decided to make a big effort to get fit and loose the weight and so got my bike out. That first session lasted about 10 minutes. Each day however I slowly did a bit more each time.

 

The point is there is nothing wrong with exercise in my opinion, I argued this point with my GP last week who thinks my exercise is extreme at times, rather the problems can be around surrounding issues. The first issue I faced was because I was soon riding my bike for one hour a day then two, then three, four and five the weight really started to fall off. None of my existing clothes fitted me and I had to dig around in the bottom of draws to find stuff from years back. At first this weight loss was a really positive experience I was a lot healthier I went through barriers pretty frequently 105kg, 100kg, 95kg, 90kg all in the first year. I then started to think seriously about getting back into racing triathlon.

 

When I first started and given the state of my health my partner insisted that I bought a heart rate monitor as a safeguard as she was worried about me pushing into heart attack territory. This came with some software and I weighed myself daily on her Wii fit and plotted the weight loss, at first this was a healthy realtionship as it was a positive influence on my self esteem which had been pretty low. When I got into running and swimming I again got monitors and importantly another piece of software which had a large diet element to it.

 

It was at this point that the first shoots of a potential problem started to merge.

 

A big issue was that I did not recognise the person I was looking at in the mirror each day. My body was changing fast and throughout six years at college I had built a self image around being a 'big fat bloke'. Very quickly that image of myself was becoming irrelevant but I was not sure what to repalce it with. I then started to look into percentages of body fat and power to weight ratios of elite sportsmen and started to fix targets in my mind about what I might want to achieve. I looked at magazines and was for the first time in my life envious of the bodies of top atheletes and looked to try and find examples of people close to my age who were competitive in professional sport. I was in fact doing the very same things as a teacher I had talked to teenage girls about when they were pouring over the pages of Cosmpolitan magazine or Vouge many years earlier. Could I see it as that at the time of course not, all I was doing was trying to find a positive body image for myself.

 

At this point my new software allowed me to put in targets for weight loss and body fat percentages and set myself a diet suitable to my training regime. As with exercise there is nothing wrong here in basic terms. Because I had gone from obesse to simply being overweight quickly I was mistaken in thinking that I could continue loosing weight at the predictable rate, it didn't cross my mind that it would get harder to do so, my autistic thinking in black and white terms was starting to cause problems. In this respect I simply set myself very hard goals and the software told me to achieve this weight loss I would need to undereat by around 500 calories a day. To achieve this I simply recorded into the software all the nutrition information of what I ate, weighed my food and carried on with my training and new found diet in complete control, and I mean 'complete control'.

 

This level of control is something which has been part of my life for as long as I can remember and logging the exercise, recording my diet and achieving fitness improvements and weight loss was it seemed a perfect scenario. Other things then started to creep in which on their own might not seem problematic. I read a book on 'racing weight' and looked into supplements which might be usefull, some I knew had benefits for my mental health as well so I went with them. The introduction of supplements brought into my life a morning ritual around weighing myself, checking heart rate, supplements etc... At the time I did not see this as 'ritual' but rather an extension of routine. I also started to get driven by following the target line which was predicted weight loss. I can remeber going out for a curry for a birthday and really enjoying the break from my diet and routine and having a few beers. The result was I put on weight in the next couple of days but simply balanced the black and white 'rules' by doing a couple of really hard sessions which had the desired effect. This brought in a new rule and that was you could relax in what you ate as long as you were prepared to put in the work in training to compensate.

 

This new rule was quite appealing, I would get tired of the discipline of a strict diet and longed for regular food, I was by now pretty fit and so compensation exercise might involve running 10km first thing, going out on the bike and ridding 120km and then finishing the day with a 3000m swim. These sort of days were burning in excess of 4000cal in exercise and so allowed a lot of binge type eating to take place. Again on the surface there was little in the way of a problem here. Nor could my partner see one developing from the outside looking in.

 

In hindsight I should have been a lot more aware of potential problems in developing these sort of behaviour patterns. Throughout my life I have been a self harmer. My earliest memories are of around the age of seven taking thick yarn and stitching patterns into my arms and putting clothing over the top. When stressed and feeling out of control at school for example I could pull at these threads through my clothes to inflict pain to regain a level of self control. This even got past parents as I would be carefull with trying to soak blood stains out of school shirts etc.. It came to a head when I was caught in school and was given the cane for doing this which given my nature was like a double reward this simply led to more secretive type self harm patterns developing.

 

What I had been doing in respect to exercise and what I ate came to a head watching an eppisode of 'SupersSize vs SuperSkinny' on the TV with my partner. On the surface she felt I was a very balance exercise enthusiast who was getting pretty fit. When she saw the programme she started to ask questions as to how many calories I was eating and wanted to see my software charts. I was initially of the opinion that I could not be developing an eating disorder because i was a male, middle aged and hardly underweight. Yet parts of my body looked as if they were very thin mainly my arms and face, I also look anemic at times. I was in a bit of denial because what I was doing was serving a purpose, obviously there would be a point where I would step off this treadmill once I reached 'racing weight' and fulfilled my own prophecy surrounding self image of looking a certain way physically. In fact it was really important I got there as quickly as possible because I did not have a body image of my own and was struggling to relate to myself, when I was mr perfect this would be so much easier wouldn't it?

 

Whilst it was hard for me to recognise I was developing a range of eating disorders, what I could see was that many people on TV with such disorders were in my eyes self harmers. All the levels of control, ritual, low self esteem etc... were all there. So was I self harming with my exercise and diet combination? The answer was yes I was. On one hand I could say I had not self harmed at all since finishing at university on the other hand I had found the perfect self harm system. In this system you systematically undereat and then you set yourself up for an exercise session. You go through all the self talk that you are nothing unless you get through this session at a certain level. The effect is you put strain on your muscles, heart and lungs as the case of regular exercise. But the self harm is far more subtle than that it stresses key energy systems and it creates a deep low key pain which permeates throughout your whole body. In my past I found a connection between cutting myself and watching the blood flow down my legs. I would move my body to create interesting flow lines along my skin an wait for the blood line to congeal. I would then cut again and try and create parallel lines without letting the fresh blood touch the old one, and so on untill my self harm desire was satisfied. At that level there was a disconection between my pain/body and my mind. By self harming with diet and exercise I was bringing that gap so much closer into touching distance and keeping in control was so much more difficult but rewarding at the same time on a very dark level.

 

I felt I wanted to share my experience not to say Smiley this is what you are doing, but rather to show how one thing can easily lead into another. These things can have knock on effects and we should all be mindfull of things in our past lives which can re-merge and manifest themselves in new ways. Last week I went to see my doctor over a number of issues and he looked at me in amazement when I raised the issue of potential eating disorders in my life and wanting help with it. We live in a society full of stereotypical ideas, which in so many ways can act as a smokescreen for many of us to live our lives in very destructive ways. I know I tread this very fine line on a daily basis. Exercise is really important in my life, it gives me so much which is beneficial. Diet likewise is important and I consider I eat a balanced and nutritious diet, so on the surface everything looks fine and rosy. With me this is often not the case. I have been out on my bike and been riding along with people chatting but knowing I am on a self harm day, they will swing off to go home and then I will go and find a steep hill and know I have catch up to do as I start to punish my body and the pain starts. I then go home download the data and say I have had a good training day if anyone asks, the truth is it was emotionally a very dark day and as with all my self harm I go to bed not tired but with a feeling of guilt and weakness.

 

Today I have got a more balanced view I plan sessions better and will only do a really hard workout if it has been preceeded by normalised and balanced eating, no startvation or binge/purge attitudes present. Some of the tools which contributed to the issues now help monitor the problem. Last summer I made progress in this area by sitting back and understanding at the heart of this was my lack of self esteem. The changes in my life had come thick and fast and I had to pause take a restock and get things in perspective. I had to understand that my life was made up of a number of elements and not just one and by becoming fixated on it something as an Aspie I do all the time I had put in place a scenario where issues could emerge. I still have problems with getting diet and exercise in a healthy balance in respect to my mental health and I guess this will continue as these elements are very much part of the person I am. What I am today is more aware of them and being aware of what I am doing and why I might be doing it is a massive step forwards in creating a healthy and balanced lifestyle for myself and importantly my family.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[smileyK]

i on and off self harm when stressed low anxious depressed etc ( cut myself) i watch obese :year save my life USA and also like you watch supersize v's superskinny on Ch4 i don't see any ED within myself though to be honest & fair with you .... where to go from here ... where next? i had bloods taken at docs few weeks ago heard nothing to assume if anything serious would been in contact by now so don't need investigate any further feel drained tired but don't feel no need wasting docs time!

 

XKLX

[A-S warrior]

i on and off self harm when stressed low anxious depressed etc ( cut myself) what? thats a discussion for another forum. i watch obese :year save my life USA and also like you watch supersize v's superskinny on Ch4 i don't see any ED within myself though to be honest & fair with you .... where to go from here ... where next? love yourself and be proud of who you are, and be thankfull your not in africa drinking dirty water and/or being used as a sex object for money, i had bloods taken at docs few weeks ago heard nothing to assume if anything serious would been in contact by now so don't need investigate any further feel drained tired over trained and under nourished but don't feel no need wasting docs time! not a waste of time if you need them.

 

XKLX

 

 

of course these are my opinions and my advice, you can do whatever you wana do.

[smileyK]

i've bruised my right foot jogging i fell on to it's side now can't walk properly on it hurts but still want to go gym mum reckons i should rest it up for few days don't think i could stand going without the gym for that long and got weight nurse on friday morning ... so can afford take time out or day off if i do i feel stressesd/anxious etc

XKLX

[A-S warrior]

ive nearly finished having a week of from the gym and i look better than i did before, it gives time for the body to rest and do routine repairs. if your worryed about a set back just go for a walk first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, that will keep you ticked over. but to be honest a few days rest isnt always a bad thing. if your calorie depleting and doing intence exersise you could be overtrained and have turned catobolic, this is when the body burns muscle instead of fat. the body acumilates fat to cope with the stress. so a few days off to get your metabolic rate back up again, shock the metabolisum with some icecream and let the body recuperate is going to help fat loss in the long run belive it or not.

Edited April 22, 2012 by A-S warrior

[smileyK]

i hate my body and myself right now this been long standing issue hate what see in mirror reflection but yet have to check feel so miserable low had enough so fed up exercise onl thing makes me feel good better! don't know if i can stay away from gym and for how long! gr

[smileyK]

everything i do eat i want to burn right away either joggin ,gym or swimming! just don't feel like doing enough! feel so wrong have time off even if it is only days to me that too long!

[A-S warrior]

i love the gym because its fun, and ive spent all my adult life there, made alot of friends and the place feels like home. but for you it seems to have control over you and there is obviously a underling reason that your tied down like this, some might say its body dismorphia or anorexia but to me it sounds like depression. alotough the other two could also be present. but take it from someone whos un biased, if your one of the girls in that profile pic then you dont have to worry at all. because none of them strike me as fat, and they all look happy and healty. the gym should be fun it should not and can not control you. same with diet. the cure for you is education, do some legitamate reasrech and not reading magazines to see the latest fad diet. all you really have to do is a calorie defisit and gentle exersise to get awsome fat loss. get in touch with someone at the gym and tell them everything you,ve told us. and more than all of that dont ever hate yourself.

[smileyK]

i'm at back on the right hand corner of the photo btw all i see in the mirror is fat and ulginess can't bear it anymore something taken hold grip of me and i can't let go scared too... i buy magazines to read celeb weight loss stories!

[A-S warrior]

thats a shame you see yourself like that because its really not true. and id take what celebritys say with a pinch of salt, just go for a nice well balanced, well rounded off from all food groups, eat enough to fit your calorie requirements for yor goals (see dietition to determine what they are) and drink plenty of water. and train intensivley 3 to 4 days a week. and the rest of the days just do some gentle walking or some yoga on the other days.

[trekster]

I have self harmed similar to yourself in the past smiley. I had to find out why I was wanting to hurt myself.

i can hear your crying or screaming out for help.

 

A number of resources I have found useful include mainly books, 'how to be yourself in a world that's different'.

'Anxiety and depression workbook for dummies'. The 2nd book is really difficult and im going back to it because

I need some more help with my MH stuff.

 

Your posts seems to be asking for reassurance? There is some control we can have over our lives and some

we can't. I realise that is one of the hardest things to live with being on the spectrum. If you wish to PM me to

discuss privately what's upsetting you then feel free.

[LancsLad]

Smiley I think you need to be really honest with yourself. When you say that when you eat something all you want to do is exercise it off straight away it comes across that there is an awfull lot of guilt inside there. I have felt like this and still do and would view this behaviour as a binge/purge response. I eat and feel guilty but have to try and get rid of the food somehow to do this I exercise it away and the cycle begins again.

 

I know when we get into exercise it can be really hard to have a balanced opinion of our own bodies. Because of my weight loss I really struggle with this. In one sense I can see parts of my body which are lean, toned and muscular. In other places because of the loss of body volume there are rolls of body tissue and stretch marked skin which I can view as fat others might see as layers of skin. It has taken me a long time to 'start' to come to terms with this. I now realise I might never get the look I want, aestheticaly speaking my body is going to always be a very mixed picture. A-S Warrior is right in raising potential issues regarding body dismorphia, I will take that one on my shoulders fully.

 

I think there are other factors which are at play here and a big one is the gym environment. I am now very carefull about using the gym as it is full of people with all sorts of issues in respect to health and fitness and self image. I do not find it to be a healthy mental environment. There is a lot of self comparison taking place, and whilst this might be a positive driving factor for some personality types for others I think it is dangerous. I have been in situations doing interval work on a treadmill aimed at going above my running race pace for periods and then recovering where people alongside me have increased and decreased speeds as I have and on one occasion I stopped a planned session because the person next to me was in heart attack territory, I had a right go at him. I am guilty of this as well, when it comes to endurance based cardio work I am one of the fittest members there, when it comes to weights roles are reversed. I can be quite happy going through an appropriate strength session untill some A-S Warrior type guy gets on a machine opposite me and is pushing three times what I can, the result is I get very self concious and can either take on too much and hurt myself in the process or pretend I have finished which I have not. When it comes to clases I know I simply could not cope with the environmental factors nosie, smell, lights etc...

 

Smiley I would think about what the gym does for you bost from a positive angle and a negative one and make some balanced decisions. I know I am far better at exercising by myself outdoors in the countryside with no other pressures than those I place on myself at the start of a session, this is healthy for me. A large part of me sorting out my own issues in respect to exercise and diet was in placing real value on the emotional quality of the exercise to the point I did not want my destructive and obsessive eating habits to spoil it and turn it into something which it was never meant to be.

 

Trekster is right as was Tally there is a massive cry for help coming out here and you need to talk this through with someone. There are very large elements of control in your behaviour and your injury might have brought home that this is very close to if not already an addiction, the behaviour patterns are there as is a large amount of denial.

 

I really, really feel for you, but there are times when tough love is the right response. I think you are getting a lot of tough love off the forum on this one and that must be hard to take. The reason we are doing this is because we al really care about you, even if you can not replicate those feelings to yourself at present. Not much more I can say feel a bit helpless on this, because you have to start helping yourself Smiley.

 

kindest wishes.

[Tally]

Smiley has been going on and on about this for as long as I can remember. She desperately needs APPROPRIATE help and attention from a doctor, but she point blank refuses to seek the APPROPRIATE attention and continues to attempt to use the forum as her sole source of support with her psycholOgical health issues. She pays no attention to anyone who advises her to see s doctor about this medical issue, and my sdvice to anyone would be that Smiley is not worth wasting your time on as she doesn't listen to a word anyone says.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Tally

[LancsLad]

Tally thanks for the input I have obviously only come to the forum in the new year as have others. I think this is one of the things in life we have to see for ourselves. Personally exercise in my experience can be a massive smokescreen which we use to hide behind but it is very dangerous. Like all addictions our bodies adapt to the effects of exercise and we often seek more and more and things can get out of control.

 

I am worried about Smiley even little things such as changes to her profile portrait indicate she is pushing herself into the background. I am like this at times, sometimes I want sympathy, sometimes there is a genuine cry for help a lot of the time I am simply self perpetuating my own negative self image and would not welcome any comments rather I am in a self destruct mode. I understand all of this as do you. All we can do is offer our own experiences up and give any advice we feel appropriate. It is freely given with no conditions attached and as such Smiley can take on board what she wants in her own time and at her own pace, my best wishes go with her.

[A-S warrior]

i have a side of me that will help anyone, even pepole i hate. thats just the way i was raised, some pepole need alot of patience, and encouragement. smiley is getting support either way, i think eventully she,ll catch on to what were saying. i think reacting to her in a negative way is just going to make her hate herself even more. i made that mistake a few posts ago, not that im knockig you tally, your a good moderator, but some pepole as frustrating as they are stil need to say whats on there mind, we sometimes forget that we,re all in united by aspergers, and everybody needs time and attention.

[darkshine]

This is a reply of 2 parts.

 

PART 1

 

Ok, I'm gonna be the really stupid person who asks what may be a REALLY stupid question....

 

Are you - smileyK - also the smiley1590 that I was talking to last year? You sign off the same and talk very very similar? Cuz despite the join date disparity one went away and stopped posting as the other arrived and took over...

 

I'm sorry if this causes offence - but I've been thinking this for a little while now but I have not said anything til now...

 

Edit - colour change

Edited April 23, 2012 by darkshine

[A-S warrior]

no such thing as a stupid question darkshine, just stupid awnsers.

[darkshine]

PART 2

 

If my really stupid question has an answer of yes - then it would be frustrating... to say the least.

 

http://www.asd-forum...590#entry310433

 

http://www.asd-forum...590#entry308336

 

http://www.asd-forum...590#entry307372

 

......................................

 

Potential Eating Disorders are serious things and in my opinion its kinda like an alcoholic admitting they are an alcoholic - until that happens there can be no way forwards...

 

I myself have balanced on that edge of having an eating disorder - and still do - the only difference being is that I have told numerous people and they do nothing to help me.

 

Edit - same reason as other edit

Edited April 23, 2012 by darkshine

[A-S warrior]

pc darkshine, troll police

[darkshine]

I just want to know is all - I bear no judgement or anything else - I read some of the comments and it just made me finally ask my question. A question that I have been wanting to ask several times but haven't so far.

 

Wouldn't you want to know if it was someone you'd talked to, and then they disappeared and someone else who reminds you of them so much appears... wouldn't you want to know if they were one and the same?

 

It was Tally's reaction that made me do it because it made me remember one or two of the links I have added from last year. It just all seemed so very very familiar...

[Tally]

The two Smiley's are the same person. I don't believe Smiley has ever tried to fool people about this, I think she assumed we'd all realise she is the same person. She has stopped using the previous account, and has never used them both simultaneously.

 

The reason it gets frustrating is because she keeps asking for advice, receives the advice to talk to her doctor, and then ignores it. There doesn't seem a lot of point giving it if she's not going to listen to it.

 

Without help, Smiley is going to feel the way she describes above forever. I'm sure that people would be keen to support Smiley through seeking treatment and getting better. What we can't do is support her indefinitely. If saying, "you don't look fat to me" could cure Smiley's problem, she would be cured by now. But she isn't, she still believes she is fat and ugly, which is why she really needs professional input on this. Preferably before she develops physical health problems or even dies. But no one can force her to do that, and it gets frustrating and it isn't fair to do that to people here.

[darkshine]

I never thought it was for deception - I was just confused about it - I guess I just like to know who someone is (as in their member name) its confusing when people have two. I actually thought it might be due to an account problem (like forgotten password).

 

I didn't mean to infer anything by mentioning your name Tally - its just the things you said prior to just now - made that final connection in my head...

 

The problem with stuff like this (unhealthy obsessions/eating disorders) is that it makes you not tell - that's why I said about the alcoholic example cuz its sort of similar - something inside you makes you not tell people. Makes it secret. Makes you obsessively control and hide it.

 

However, I do understand why you are saying what you are saying - when something is really obvious to everyone else it is difficult to continue trying to help forever... and I am kinda dis-spirited because I really tried to get through last year and hoped that we would get somewhere.

 

The thing is, although it is unfair to people in one sense to keep having this discussion many times - is if we all give up then who's left to keep trying?

[LancsLad]

I think what is important is that the forum is about the realities of the real world and does not become some politically correct place which simply tries to say and do the right things as a default position. The problem with politically correct realities is that they are often not real at all, especially concerning minority issues but merly a reflection of a concensus opinion. As such I would feel obliged to keep responding to similar posts, I also think it is important that we vent our personal frustrations if we harbour them, in my view there is nothing wrong with that.

 

I am no expert other than I have experienced similar things in my own life. I may have been very fortunate in that I have come close to the edge in respect to entering into an eating disorder zone and have managed to more or less stay on the side of the line where I have been able to understand what was happening and been able to reflect on things in time to modify my behaviour. I feel there are times where when we cross that line for any time there is no easy way back. We then enter a period of distorted belief patterns and our behaviours become entrenched in our lifestyles and become a vicious cycle. I think in such scenarios it is almost inevitable that we have to hit rock bottom, whatever that term may mean to an individual.

 

It may be the case that Smiley is in such a belief and lifestyle position. On the way down to the bottom she may well be simply sounding people to see if they are still around knowing deep down she may need their support in future but is not ready for it yet. Concensus views tell us we should not do this as it infringes on other peoples time, 'cry wolf stories' from our childhood social education. It is difficult to help people for what seems forever and more and more society is supporting the position that our personal lives are really important and that the important thing is to look after number one. There would have been a time in our recent past when people would have for example gently questioned other adults who made the decision to put their parents into residential care at the end of their lives, not any more. Now we understand "it must be difficult" and provide empathy as they continue unabated in their pursuit of consumerist ideals. If we were to adopt a contemporary stance it might well be one of "go and sort it out for yourself", we might also think "I gave you some time once, twice, possibly more than that". I know it is frustrating so what do we do?

 

I guess we resort to traditional behaviour models. We care, and we take vigil. I know I came to the forum and posted my own experiences. I suspect this was not the first time someone has dones this with Smiley and others in similar positions, nor I suspect will I be the last. In a way it is like being on watch over someone, people may come and people may go on the forum but I hope there is always someone there to keep watch over people and their issues. It takes real strength to do this day after day, month after month, year after year, and as such Tally you have my respect. For others that may equate to a few months and as such we may have seen a previous cycle or two am thinking of Darkshine and Trekster in this respect. And then there are A-S Warrior and myself, we come to this fresh.

 

What I find interesting about all the posts it is more about a hand over type scenario than it is about really trying to solve the issue which is out of our hands and of course lies with Smiley to a very large extent. And in that respect I think Smiley can be reassured that traditional values orf care and support are alive and kicking on the forum. What I also find interesting where that support comes from and that is wholly from inside the Aspie community, and I think that simply highlights to me where we have got to with society in general terms. The post's title is not exclusively aimed at one section of the forum community and it is placed in 'general discussion' but the politically correct response of the majority position is one of silence. It may be the case that some of us become frustrated by recurrent issuse in respect to some members of 'our' community, that's how it is, that's how it will always be. The answer is to work together, to share the responsibility, to take vigil. New people will turn up from time to time to take part and it is important that we create the right tone in our posts. The reason I have wanted to talk about this is because I feel strongly that this post is in exactly the right tone. There are some tough words in here based on experience, there is also a lot of compassion as there is respect.

 

I think the fact that Smiley keeps coming back in cycles with similar posts says something about her for sure, but I also think it says a lot about the forum and the people on it.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[darkshine]

I am here - I may be of some use - I may be of no use - but for now at least - I am here - that is all I have to say