Social Services input into LEA decisions?

[KezT]

As you may remember, DS has been school refusing for the past 6 months, and the school have removed him from lessons and put him on part time hours following EP advice...

 

We have applied for an independent school, been turned down on financial grounds, and are appealing to Tribunal.

 

Tribunal Date is in January 2013. School have no intention of putting DS back into any peer groups in September afaik.

 

Obviously, this has been a stressful time for the family. There are a number of stress factors at the best of times, and the school refusal did cause a crisis:( I just do not have enough time in the day to deal with DS and all the other children, and DH, and go to work, and keep the house!!!

 

DD2 started showing some classic attention seeking behaviours during last term, including disclosing a variety of complaints about me& DH to her school support worker. Obviously the school has a duty to follow these up, and reported on to social services.

We had a number of visits from a social worker, where I asked for support, and she agreed we needed support (again) and them pointed out that she couldn't [provide any of that support...... But she was determined to keep turning up on our doorstep and grilling us about what exactly we are doing and why DD2 is upset that she has been told to tidy her room/go to sleep on time etc

 

After a while, I got bit annoyed, and wrote to SS saying that they were adding to the stress in the family and if they couldn't offer any support then would they kindly F off;)

 

Got a letter back saying the case was being handed over to a senior SW & family support worker - they came to visit me earlier this week and appeared to grasp the situation a little better. The SW asked what would relieve the stress and I said getting DS's schooling sorted would solve all the major issues! FSW volunteered (without prompting) that a Tribunal date of January was too long and could cause long term problems for the whole family which would cost social services a fortune! I agreed, and said I had pointed that out to the LEA, but they didn't care about the SS budget.....

 

When they left, they were intending to contact the Education Dept about this......

 

Can SS have any input into LEA decisions? Can they bring any pressure to bear? Can they joint fund the independent school placement? Is it worth me trying to get any of the above?

 

Does anyone think there might be a good outcome from SS involvement? Not seen anything useful out of them before TBH..... They did say that hey couldn't get the disabled children team involved as AS does not meet their criteria, but adult disabilities are coming back out to reassess us next week.... Not sure if they can help at all:/

[Sally44]

We too found that the childrens SS was ONLY for children with severe/profound learning disabilities, and therefore we did not meet their criteria.

 

However SS do meet the needs of children and adults with other difficulties. So what they mean is that they should refer you to the 'general' childrens social services.

 

What you need to request in writing is a Core Assessment of your child and also a Carers Assessment for yourself and the rest of the family. They have to carry this out. If they don't respond to your request within a reasonable timeframe, and detail that timeframe in your letter], then you can official complain to your Local Authority via their official complaints person [which every LA must have], because SS are basically LA employees.

 

If that does not happen you can lodge a complaint with the Local Governments Ombudsman.

 

What would be useful from a tribunal point of view, would be for a social services report detailing your child's needs, and also your needs as carers for that child.

 

We have just recently received a SW report, which states that their opinion is that our child needs 2-3 nights respite per week, which could be provided at his current school [as it is also a boarding school, but he attends as a day pupil].

 

But where it becomes complicated is regarding WHO is going to fund that residential time. As far as I understand [and please check this via somewhere like IPSEA]. A Statement is legally binding on the LA, but not on the NHS or Social Services. That is why it is important to get all the needs as 'educational', rather than health or social care.

 

Social Services have told us that there will be a Panel meeting [where we go again!], and that funding will be discussed between the LA, CAHMS and Social Care. I doubt there will be an agreement to fund it, eventhough the SS report says we are in crisis. So I will probably have to follow whatever complaints procedure there is.

 

So for ease, if possible, I would definately get the SS Core Assessment and Report completed, as well as the Carers Assessment, and see what their report recommends because you can submit it as your evidence of your childs needs, especially for the residential side. However, I would try to get as many, if not all the needs recognised as being 'educational'. Unless IPSEA advise otherwise.

 

So, to answer the question, yes I believe they can joint fund the placement with the LA or NHS or both, but I don't know how that would be termed on the Statement, and if it is in part 6 [ie. health], as opposed to part 3 [educational], then it is not legally binding on the LA to provide anything detailed in part 6.

 

So I really think you need some expert advise on this.

 

IPSEA has a new email service, maybe you could send them that question initially, or get in touch with their Tribunal helpline.

[Sally44]

We too found that the childrens SS was ONLY for children with severe/profound learning disabilities, and therefore we did not meet their criteria.

 

However SS do meet the needs of children and adults with other difficulties. So what they mean is that they should refer you to the 'general' childrens social services.

 

What you need to request in writing is a Core Assessment of your child and also a Carers Assessment for yourself and the rest of the family. They have to carry this out. If they don't respond to your request within a reasonable timeframe, and detail that timeframe in your letter], then you can official complain to your Local Authority via their official complaints person [which every LA must have], because SS are basically LA employees.

 

If that does not happen you can lodge a complaint with the Local Governments Ombudsman.

 

What would be useful from a tribunal point of view, would be for a social services report detailing your child's needs, and also your needs as carers for that child.

 

We have just recently received a SW report, which states that their opinion is that our child needs 2-3 nights respite per week, which could be provided at his current school [as it is also a boarding school, but he attends as a day pupil].

 

But where it becomes complicated is regarding WHO is going to fund that residential time. As far as I understand [and please check this via somewhere like IPSEA]. A Statement is legally binding on the LA, but not on the NHS or Social Services. That is why it is important to get all the needs as 'educational', rather than health or social care. Because, for example, if OT and SALT input were in part 6, rather than part 3, the LA cannot be compelled to provide that support or therapy. That is why there are so many case law outcomes regarding this issue ie. SALT and OT are EDUCATIONAL needs.

 

Social Services have told us that there will be a Panel meeting [here we go again!], and that funding will be discussed between the LA, CAHMS and Social Care. I doubt there will be an agreement to fund it, eventhough the SS report says we are in crisis and that our son and the family need it. So I will probably have to follow whatever complaints procedure there is and fight for that respite because of the report we will now have.

 

So for ease, if possible, I would definately get the SS Core Assessment and Report completed, as well as the Carers Assessment, and see what their report recommends because you can submit it as your evidence of your childs needs, especially for the residential side. However, I would try to get as many, if not all the needs recognised in that SW report as being 'educational'. That is not something you would discuss with SS, but is something your solicitor, advocate or yourself would have to interpret as being edcuational needs, because case law has quite a wide definition of what 'education' is.

 

I would definately contact IPSEA for their advice. Probably their tribunal service.

 

So, to answer the question, yes I believe SS can joint fund the placement with the LA or NHS or both, but I don't know how that would be termed on the Statement, and if the residential aspect is in part 6 [ie. health], as opposed to part 3 [educational], then I don't think it is legally binding on the LA to provide anything detailed in part 6. But what would happen in that instance ie. SS decide to stop funding the residential side, I just don't know. Any amendment to a Statement can be appealed, and I presume it would be very difficult for Social Care to justify such a change, especially if that school were too far away to be a day student - I just don't know.

 

So I really think you need some expert advise on this.

 

IPSEA has a new email service, maybe you could send them that question initially, or get in touch with their Tribunal helpline.

 

So, for the time being, I would push for the core assessment and carers assessment and not say anything about your views on who should fund it.

[Sally44]

In my own case, i've just phoned the SW, who says that social services have decided that the residential respite should be funded by education, and so i'm going to phone again on Monday to see what is happening about that.

 

I've also spoken to someone at Network81.org, and they've said that any residential aspect of the education would go into part 2, and would also be detailed in part 2 or 3 as to why they need it. They said that the LA should still be liable to fund it, but that they would try themselves to claim anything back that they could via health or social care. And that you still need to word the need for residential around the educational aspect ie. that without that residential aspect and the consistency of surroundings and staff and therapy, that your child's access to education, or attendance at all, would be severely affected.

 

So I think that any report you get via SS is going to be useful. So make sure they are going to carry out a Core Assessment [i think there is a timescale of 35 days for them to complete it, so you should be able to submit this report as part of your evidence towards your tribunal].

[Sally44]

In my own case, i've just phoned the SW, who says that social services have decided that the residential respite should be funded by education, and so i'm going to phone again on Monday to see what is happening about that.

 

I've also spoken to someone at Network81.org, and they've said that any residential aspect of the education would go into part 4, and would also be detailed in part 2 or 3 as to why they need it. They said that the LA should still be liable to fund it, but that they would try themselves to claim anything back that they could via health or social care. And that you still need to word the need for residential around the educational aspect ie. that without that residential aspect and the consistency of surroundings and staff and therapy, that your child's access to education, or attendance at all, would be severely affected.

 

So I think that any report you get via SS is going to be useful. So make sure they are going to carry out a Core Assessment [i think there is a timescale of 35 days for them to complete it, so you should be able to submit this report as part of your evidence towards your tribunal].

[Sally44]

Sorry, about the double post. I can't seem to edit my posts anymore???

 

What it should say is that residential should be in part 4, which details in part 2 and 3 as to why that residential placement is needed.

[Sally44]

I've spoken with someone from the IPSEA Tribunal Service, and they've said that ONLY educational needs are legally binding on the LA. So involving SS can complicate things because SEND have no powers to Order SS to provide anything. Which is what I knew anyway.

 

So ALL your childs needs have to be demonstrated as being educational, and the need for residential needs to be educational too [rather than respite etc - as an educational need for respite is harder to prove].

 

So I would concentrate on that and ensure that all your professionals are stating that residential is needed because of issues that ultimately educational.

 

If SS assess and produce a report you don't have to submit it as evidence if you feel it is not helpful - although the LA could submit it as evidence that certain needs are social care and not educational??

 

It is a very difficult area to get into, and so I would only argue the educational need for a residential placement.

[Sally44]

I also wanted to add that a Core Assessment should produce a report with recommendations and those recommendations should then produce a CARE PLAN from social services.

 

Where it becomes muddy is, as it appears in our case, that SS have said he needs residential, however they have said it is their view that it should be funded by education rather than social care. And so I have to get a response from the LA about whether they do agree to fund it. I doubt they will agree. That being the case, I have been advised it is worth appealing to SEND, and that if SEND find that the residential side is not an educational need and do not order the LA to provide it, that I can use Judicial Review on Social Services to Order them to provide what they have recommended.

[KezT]

Thanks Sally

 

We have the adult SS assessment for DH and myself next week, so will see what report that provides. Family support worker is back again next week too, so I will just ask her how the conversation with Education went for now.

 

Got a letter from Education this morning saying that they have passed DS case to senior SEN manager as they received the Tribunal papers. Als hat they are not refusing to provide DS a full time eduction but are working to support him to an "appropriate education". As IMO t is "appropriate" for him to have a full time education, I shall be replying that they may not be refusing to provide this, but they are certainly "failing" to provide it, and as it is their legally binding duty, they had better find a solution to such failure...

 

will keep you all updated.

[Sally44]

I wouldn't push them too much to do anything, because when you go to tribunal you will have lots of evidence that they did nothing. If you keep pushing for them to provide support, they might provide it; which is not what you want. You just need to prove that ONLY your choice of placement can meet your son's needs, It is up to the LA to prove that they can meet his needs. So leave them to try to prove that if they can. Don't help them by keeping reminding them of their obligations and what they are not providing. Try to forget about the LA and what they are or are not providing, and just prepare your side of the case.

[Sally44]

It is useful to find out what your LA's various departments could potentially provide, and what the qualifications of their employees are. But you ask that directly of the various departments and not via the SEN Inclusion Officer. You don't want to forewarn them about what evidence you may use regarding their specialist teaching service for example; or make them aware that you know that the OT service does not fund sensory integration therapy.

 

Have you started preparing your Working Document yet? When you do start work on it make sure that you annotate every single need in part 2, and annotate provision for each of those needs in part 3. Do not give a copy of the Working Document to the LA that contains all your annotations. Leave them to annotate it themselves. You want your Working Document to help you and your case. Don't make anything easy for them. Believe me, the SEN Inclusion Officer is going to be struggling to read through all the evidence/reports and annotate it themselves.

 

My LA pushed time and again for us to 'demonstrate' where we had found the needs we had included in part 2 and the provision we detailed in part 3. We simply said we had taken it from the same reports that the LA had access to.

 

On the day of the tribunal it was obvious that we knew our Bundle of paperwork inside out and back to front, and the LA side had no idea who had said what or recommended what. We could immediately state where we had got part 2 and 3 from. We also gave a copy of the annotated Working Document to all the Panel members, because you want to help them to do their job as efficiently as possible and to be able to quickly refer to reports and evidence which identified needs and where recommendations had been made.