Dog lovers - Some advice please

[SidiousUK]

Hello all,

 

I bought a new puppy a couple of months back to give me an excuse to go out on a daily basis.

 

We have just been for a walk in the park and were walking along the perimeter next to the stream.

From half way across the field, a staffie and a lab came hurtling towards my little 4 month old German Shepherd and cut him off from me (being young, he doesn't stray that far from me when off the lead) and his only escape was an 8 - 10 foot fall into the stream.

 

After a lot of frantic searching for him (we could not see each other) I managed to find him and fished him. The women walking the dogs (5 in total) still had not put the staff and lab on a lead and were waiting for us to come out of the stream.

 

"They are friendly" was the first thing that came out of their mouths.

 

I explained that my dog does not know they are friendly and they did not seem interested in playing, more like attacking as they had cut him off from any form of safety (main me) and no viable escape route.

 

They then tried to get all 5 of the dogs they had to sniff my shaken puppy.

 

I came home and called the 101 non emergency line to ask the police what I was legally allowed to do in the event of another dog attacking mine. Someone told me I can take any action necessary to get the other dog off mine and I should call the dog warden.

 

So I called the dog warden

 

The person I spoke to was far from helpful and just kept saying that they could not offer any advise and I should contact either a solicitor, the citizens advise or the police and I was not allowed to injur another animal if it was attacking mine.

I told her this was at odd with what the police had said before they referred me to the dog warden.

 

I now feel like I don't want to take him out for walks as I can't protect him without knowing what I can and cannot do if he is attacked.

Obviously I know I cannot belt the living daylights out of the owner (as much as I want to) and I don't particularly want to hurt another animal but I would kill one if I had to but would I then get the RSPCA or police knocking at my door.

 

I am also now back to square one of not wanting to go out thanks to a couple of chav's who had no intention on controlling their animals and I doubt they could have if they wanted to.

 

 

Can anyone offer advise?

[Mannify]

That must have been so worrying .

 

My mum's dog was attacked to within an inch of its life by four staffies who were not on leads. The only thing which saved my mum's dog was that she has some whippet in her, so even with her injuries she was able to outrun them. Unfortunately, even despite the gravity of the attack, mum was unable to get anyone to care very much and was told that action would only be taken in the case of a person feeling threatened. This isn't what you were wanting to hear, really, is it?

 

I can only really suggest that you take a different route or go at a different time so as to avoid confrontation with those particular dogs. The thing is that, as a German Shepherd, your puppy will very quickly be big enough to be much less of a target, and will be able to stand its own ground. It's been a bad experience, but it really is important that you keep taking your pup out so that it gets used to other dogs, even the difficult ones. I see a fellow dog-walker who has taken over an elderly gentleman's dog who wasn't taken out enough as a pup and now is not socialised; he always takes treats out and rewards him if he interacts pleasantly with other dogs, but the dog is about 3, I think, so socialisation is a much slower process.

 

Sorry to have been unable to offer more hopeful advice.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Mannify

[SidiousUK]

I have had a GSD pup before and lived with them all my life hence me choosing the breed as I know their quicks and body language.

 

He is going to be a VERY big boy when he gets older but I need to protect him now whilst he is growning up

 

We go to "dog school" every Sunday which we both throughly enjoy.

But I feel I need to know what I legally do to another dog if it attacks him whilst he is too little to defend himself

 

We will be going out for our evening walk later so I will be able to see how much this has affected him (probably affected me more than him)

[Mannify]

But I feel I need to know what I legally do to another dog if it attacks him whilst he is too little to defend himself

That's the thing, it's rubbish, it's not fair, but I don't think there is actually a law which protects your dog, although I know for a fact that if you felt threatened, the dog warden would react. They told mum that if the four dogs had been threatening to people, action could have been taken. It stinks, I'm afraid Edited October 1, 2012 by Mannify

[LancsLad]

Sidious I think the prioroty has to be a well balanced dog in respect to his mental health. As such you need to keep taking him out.

 

I would keep him on a lead untill he is trained to a level to walk to heel all the time if needed. I would also carry an extender lead and if the area is clear of other dogs let him have a bit of movement but the number one lead or default position should in my opinion be a shortish lead with a choke chain put on the right way. This will make him feel secure and conected to you.

 

As with any dog I think the thing is that if they are anxious they come back to you and go to heal, or if you are you can call them to heal. I have had a number of dogs mostly Border Collies. The one I have now was the runt of a litter and is naturally a bit skitish and so he never goes off the lead. Even when he was one of five or three he did this because that is where he is happiest.

 

When it comes to other dogs and their owners, as a runner confidence is key when you come across these types of dog. As I understand within the law you are entitled to defend yourself and your dog if attacked. In my experience however intervening often makes things a lot worse. I know from time to time my own dogs would have a domestic and the best thing to do was to let them sort it out. Often they will fight to get a hold of the loose skin behind a neck and force the other dog to submit. Once the energy was out of it I would split them and simply show then who was boss not them but me. I would do the same grab them by the same loose skin and show them I was stronger than them. It is what a bich does to her puppies all the time to educate them in social order and they are hot wired to respect this.

 

In my experience when I have seen people go into a dog fight they either get hurt themselves or they simply frighten the dominant dog which makes things worse because it is threatened and gets really aggressive.

 

I was out running last year and a big Mastiff one of three chased me and was jumping up at me, its owner was on her phone not paying attention I asked her to call it off and when she didn't I grabbed it as I have explained behind the head shook it very vigerously and pushed it to the ground where it became passive and she put a lead on it. I said to her that I expected it be on a lead when I see it because I run there frequently. For a week or so it was then one day it was loose but when he saw me he ran the other way. I said to her if i saw it off the lead again I would report her to the police for not having control of an aggresive dog. I haven't seen her out again with it, I guess she must exercise it somewhere else or it doesn't get out. I made the point I didn't have an issue with her other two dogs.

 

Sidious there are rouge dogs out there and they do attack things but we have to decide is that a reason for us restricting our own lives and that of our pets. My last point was I was out running earlier this year when I was stopped by some local dog walkers and asked was I the runner who had been attacked by a white Staffordhire cross the week before and needed ambulance treatment. I said no but I knew the dog and I had run past it quite a few times with no problems whatsoever. The police took the dog from the owner, I don't know if it was destroyed. I asked around when I came across other runners and found out who the runner was, the sad thing is I haven't seen him out since. I find this sad because the dog isn't there and his wounds will have physically healed but psychologically he might have given something up which was doing him some good.

 

I would say though you have had this bad experience try and put it behind you and build up the realtionship with your new friend, Getting out and about is something which will do you both good you just might need to build his confidence up bit by bit and that is about setting him a good example and often dogs pick up our own fears so work them through yourself and get back on track so to speak.

 

Best wishes.

[SidiousUK]

I've been trying to read the dangerous dogs act and you are right, it only seems to make mention to if a dog attacks a person or if a person feel threatened.

 

I would like to apply the "Survival of the fittest" rule and my steel top-capped boots are stonger than a staffies head

 

Many years ago, I actually had to kill a doberman that was attacking one of my dogs and me but the police said that it was OK as I was attacked and my dog (he was a fully grown GSD) was trying to defend me.

 

Personally I would rather attack the owners than the animal and even if I were to ask them for their details so I could contact the police, I doubt I would be given the correct details.

 

I always take my mobile with me so next time I think I will just call 999 and try to detain the owner as long as I can using "Reasonable force"

[SidiousUK]

Seems that the police change their tune depending on who you talk to.

 

I am not being told that if another dog is attacking mine and I kick it in the head and it dies, the owner of the other dog can take a civil case out against me.

I think in future I will put myself in the middle and wait for the other dog to attack me upon which point I will be able to defend myself

 

I blame the owners and it is chav's like today that give staffies a bad name!

[Isobel]

My golden retriever Amber has been set upon on a couple of occasions, both when she was on lead or with me in the process of putting her on a lead, so there was no way it was her fault. Owner didn't do anything to control the other dog that was off lead, and then tried to blame Amber.

[LancsLad]

When I was younger I was into a lot of mountaineering but didn't live close enough to any mountain areas to be part of a local search and rescue team I wanted to train up a search and rescue dog of my own. The standards these dogs have to be trained to is at an unbelievable level. The key part is when they are very young up to 6 months they have to be placed in a down position a long way from you and other dogs are used to walk sheep around them, if they flinch which is very hard for something like a Border Collie when they see the other dogs rounding up they are out at the first hurdle.

 

As I had a litter of pups I went to see a couple of farmers about how to go about training the dogs so they were not interested in attacking sheep. One method which I used was to take them as young pups near sheep in a controlled way and when they reacted to them to bite their ear pretty hard. I know this sounds cruel but it works for the common good. Interestingly the ###### I took learnt her lesson first time the dog took about five goes before he lost interest in the sheep. The other approach used by farmers is to put a young dog in a pen with an old ewe which gives it a hard time and there is a level of respect ingrained into the dog and that is why they never go in really close because they remeber being hurt.

 

When it comes to these irresponsible dog owners I think the pen idea might work. Find a couple of big aggresive Rotweilers or something similar and throw these people in for a couple of minutes to find out what it is like to be on the recieving end. I then suspect they would be fine for the rest of their lives lesson learn't.

 

I would always blame the owner not the dog.

 

Just a thought.

Edited October 1, 2012 by LancsLad

[SidiousUK]

My father was a police dog handler so as well as having GSD's as pets I have had working dogs around me all my life.

 

Even though I have picked up some training techniques, I still go to dog class mainly for the "socialising" aspect of things and so he knows how to react to other dogs.

He is OK with them and today it was "2 against 1" which caused him to panic olus not being able to get back to me for protection.

 

I now find myself forcing myself out with him.

 

Many of the people I meet in the park as OK and they always ask if I am a policeman and if he is a police dog.

 

Think from now on I am going to say yes and see how they behave with their dogs then

 

###### human beings!

[In Exile]

This article on the very same subject might help you.

 

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/dogwalkattacks.htm

[justine1]

I am sorry if I offend anyone but my opinion is ALL dogs should ALWAYS be on leads!!! Whether its other dogs or people how can we all tell if another pet is harmless,just because they may be harmless to the owner does not mean the same for everyone else. An animal is an animal,they defend their territory and they defend their owners.

 

I grew up abroad where we have very large gardens,so there is not a necessity to take a dog for a walk,its more of a treat I suppose,when we did they always had to be on a lead whether they were big or small dogs. We never had less than three dogs at a time,my mum is a bit of a rescuer whenever she found a stray she would bring it home if the owner was not found we would either keep the dog or find it a loving home. She still does this now,as well as cats. So I know plenty about the bond people have with their pets and I am not particularly afraid of animals.

 

However...my son Dan(6) has always been afraid of dogs,my brother got his dog just before Dan was born so he was introduced to him at a young age but he is far too fearful to go near him. He gets very anxious. It did not help that about 2 years ago we were walking back from school and some careless woman let her rotweiler come bounding towards Dan,then aged just 4,not only was he scared but he was also unsteady as he has hypermobility syndrome. She did not apologise or even call her dog instead she was texting...worse of all she had a baby and I thought how can a mum allow that to happen to a child. A few months ago I was taking my other little boy Eli(4),who has not been that afraid of dogs,to pre-school as we got out our front door our neighbours german shepard came bounding to him and growled and barked in his face,he was shaking and crying like you can't believe. She was with the dog but had let him play on the green without a lead,she was apologitic and being a neighbour I did'nt make a fuss,but I was very upset. He did'nt even go to school because of how upset he was.

 

As I say my brother has a dog,a westie,and as lovely as he is he can even turn nasty at times as he is getting on a bit. Animals are just so unpredicatable,regardless of how good you are as an owner it does not mean they are incapable of harming another animal or human. I really do think the law should be changed,in some states in the US they have lead laws meaning all dogs should be on a lead,if they are'nt the owners are charged and can face prosecution if the dog behaves aggresively.

[Isobel]

My two are fine off lead, its other dogs and people that are the problem. Nervous people actually make Amber more nervous (although she'll never bite).

[justine1]

Yes but my boys don't chose to be nervous,you can chose to put a lead on or not,thats the difference. I think peoples needs should ALWAYS come before an animals,your dogs need for freedom to be off a lead is (IMO) not as important as my boys' need to feel safe and secure without having to worry about dogs bounding towards them. They are even afraid of dogs when they are on leads but at least people can steer them away when they see how scared they are. It happened last week when a lady had her two on leads she saw how my son froze and was crying and she said don't worry they won't harm you and she steered them away,on the other hand someone whose dog is not on a lead cannot provide that reassurance when they saying the dog won't harm them yet allowing the dog to come right up in his face.

 

Many people are fearful of different things if you afraid of the dark you can switch on a light or if you afraid of heights you can avoid looking down,this means YOU are in control of the fear.So my boys' are afraid of dogs but they have no control over people letting them off leads its just wrong. Saying "my dog is fine off the lead,its other dogs and people to blame" is no different to me saying "my son lashed out because the other child wound him up" there is no justification for it. One act of aggression is one to many IMO,it does'nt have to be a bite,as I say my boys have not been bitten but have as much fear as a child/person who has because of people not taking anything other than their dog into consideration.