Halloween- what you doing ?

[Sa Skimrande]

Halloween tomorrow night is anyone doing anything interesting ?

 

Me I am for once, I am attending a pub quiz where it is required those that participate do so in halloween costume and for once I am going to make an effort and have decided to go as'' the crow'', seeing as I have an over abundance of black clothing, all I need is some black electrical tape and I am sorted, as I already have face paints and oil for the hair to make it look wet.

 

Others ?

[karmadestiny]

Hopefully sleeping through it:)!

[darkshine]

Ignoring anyone who knocks on the door

[Sa Skimrande]

Ignoring anyone who knocks on the door

 

Then you don't know TRICK or treat and I know it is an Americanisation, but you are not obliged to treat, so I tricked and that be blue tacking a drawing pin to the doorbell push button, that is my trick and perhaps not surprisingly I never got any trick or treat people at my door. For you have to understand the origin of trick or treat, it is after all a game of chance.

 

But tonight I went to my gathering as Eric Draven, the adults got it and saw it, for attention to detail worked in this case for I was the crow from the original crow on which I had modelled myself. The face paint I was not happy with realising the pound shop stuff was not the thing and so should have gone with the trade name 'snazaroo' as I know that stuff it's good.

 

The judge of the fancy dress was a youngling aged 10, he chose the Harry Potter characters to win, but he asked what I was and when I told him, he had no knowledge of ''The Crow'', a wraith sent back to enact justice, but a pub is concerned with adults but the pub is a family pub run by a family. Only two of us had improvised, the rest it was bought stuff, but for me it was a hit with the adults and that is all that matters , I was recognised for what I was trying to portray with some saying it is not far different from what I am normally as black clothing is my thing and over tired eyes and pale skin is normal to me given I don't see much sunlight.

 

But the evening was a quiz and I surmised the quiz would be connected to Halloween given the day, so I genned up on Halloween and we won, mind the team was a bunch of pagans and pagans kind of think different to most.

 

But I am only annoyed I ran out of time due to the ###### face paint I could not fit my black painted sharpened false nails, not strictly Crow one , but my variation of it, as I was varying between Crow one and three; ''The Wicked Prayer'' which was largely ######.

 

But the wrapping of black bodge tape around my midriff stopped the back hurting as it forced a back straight crouch and lift, making me pine for the tight lacing corset I used to wear when I first destroyed my back through two slipped disks in the space of three months, An industrial injury no less caused by lifting more than I am capable of, but industry is far from ideal.

 

 

 

 

(Edited to change the words that the website swear word filter has changed, but I guess viewers can surmise so I left what the website has created, but I don't understand why the website filters have so much problem with what is in the Oxford Dictionary as legitimate words)

Edited November 1, 2012 by Sa Skimrande

[darkshine]

The forum filter on swear words can be somewhat annoying at times, particularly when certain words are hardly what most would consider to be offensive.

 

I am unfamiliar with "The Crow" yet I find the idea of a wrath of justice to be intriguing to say the least, do you feel different when you dress for such occasions or do you just feel like you dressed up?

 

I am rather lacking in life experiences, I have yet to wear fancy dress (as an adult) or go to a gathering with other people doing likewise, and my only knowledge of Halloween stems from books, films and comics, I really must remedy that as I gather that the minimal knowledge I do have is highly likely to be inaccurate.

[Sa Skimrande]

The forum filter on swear words can be somewhat annoying at times, particularly when certain words are hardly what most would consider to be offensive.

 

I am unfamiliar with "The Crow" yet I find the idea of a wrath of justice to be intriguing to say the least, do you feel different when you dress for such occasions or do you just feel like you dressed up?

 

I am rather lacking in life experiences, I have yet to wear fancy dress (as an adult) or go to a gathering with other people doing likewise, and my only knowledge of Halloween stems from books, films and comics, I really must remedy that as I gather that the minimal knowledge I do have is highly likely to be inaccurate.

 

The Crow was adapted from a Graphic Novel of the same name by James O'Barr and when the movie came out in 1994 it was an instant hit with me it being kind of dark and gothic with lots of heavy metal back ground music, but I had never as an adult dressed up and wore face paint before this past Hallow'en, but the process of the research what I needed to get to portray the character was interesting and I would do it again as it was fun, and my usual attention to detail made a difference. Of course a lot of why I did it was because there has been lots of changes for me this year where I have found out what I am and so now is the time to stop hiding and start living.

 

But the story focuses on the past as torture and that is also with me where I have to stop dwelling on the past too. But nine years ago on hallowe'en I had a near death experience when I was attacked by a bunch of druggies out for a bit of fun. I died, but I came back but on coming back I had changed, my ex noticed it, my employer and my family as I had the overwhelming desire to find out what I was and basically stop living a lie. I have stopped living the lie, but now my problem is to stop dwelling in the past, so ''The Crow'' character kind of fitted my ideas regards what I must do myself.

 

As said, I was one of the few who had improvised already owned wear, I had leather jeans and a battered old pair of New Rock Reactors, so that was the bottom half sorted, the top half was a long sleeved top that I had at some point managed to shrink in the wash so it was skin tight and on that I wound layers of black gaffer tape. The face paint was a bit of a disaster, cheap stuff from the pound shop was not quite up to the job and it took ages applying it, me not being proficient in applying make up, but I sort of got there eventually, not really to how I had envisaged it, but it had to do and it did, others at the venue asked me who applied it they saying it was good.

 

But the feeling wearing costume after a while and being amongst others also in costume, one did not feel much different, mind a few pints of Hobgoblin helped in that.

 

But I had to laugh, a pal who normally goes to such events as Darth Vader due to him having the full costume and an expensive light sabre went as a health hazard, him wearing a chemical suit and over shoes with an orangey yellow painted face covered in spots, I was very impressed with the simplicity and another pal went as a mad doctor, him being from a family of doctors he had easy access to antiquarian medical paraphenalia and the white coat. But all others were wearing bought or hired costumes.

 

It's worth doing and geeks tend to do it well.

 

I have still got black nail varnish on and it might stay for a while as I did enjoy wearing my old gothy stuff.

[darkshine]

I might have to look into The Crow, it sounds like it might be suited to my preferences.

 

I wore Gothic clothes for a couple of years, but couldn't afford the proper gear so I had to improvise a lot, I still own the New Rocks (black and dark silver devil ones) they were a gift when my dad had a windfall and my most prized possession at the time, I don't wear black very much any more and because a lot of my gear at the time was limited I thoroughly wore it all out, but I cannot bear to part from those boots and they are still in good nick, I fear I am a lot more unfit than when I last wore them as I tried them on a few weeks ago and they feel heavy when they never used to.

 

I like black, it appeals to me on so many levels, I never was very good at putting on make-up although I got away with looking deathly as I am quite pale, I know that the Gothic appeal hasn't left me, although some industrial elements have filtered into my taste since then, I still have the black nail varnish though, me and a pal at the time used to scratch some off sometimes for a less than perfect look.

 

I'm beginning to write a list of things I would like to do and I think I'd like to give fancy dress a try, I too would rather create something than buy or rent a costume, I like opportunities to be creative in new ways, thank you for sharing your experiences Sa Skimrande.

[Sa Skimrande]

My New Rock Reactors were second hand off ebay, slightly too small but I stretched one of the boots, they were the ones with the red flames, but as I said were, because I scraped off the red down to leather as the red was paint and painted the scraped areas with a stuff called ''cadet shine'', which is a paint that gives a high shine black patent look, the same stuff that is also called 'Tornado nose cone paint' which was originally used by RAF personel on their parade shoes to make an easy 'bulled' effect, a high shine without the labour involved to create it with ''KIWI parade gloss polish'' which took hours. The effect was to create different shades of black and the buckles I also painted black. The metal plates on the soles had long since broken and fell off so I made my own out of more durable aluminium.

 

But heavy they are, but they are still very comfortable and warm, the leatherwork is fantastic only let down by a poor sole unit which with high mileage boots crack, but the cracking can be repaired with a glue called '' Klebfest'' which is a glue used in the shoe industry for sticking on rubber sole units.

 

Oh and the original Goth look was improvised and is not anything like the new teeny bop goths that are industry led. My gear was and still is leather, silk and velvet where I have had to make the shirts I require in the past, through not being able to find them commercially apart from the goth shop poorly made rubbish that costs loads. The shirts I made were the pirate/poet type in black charmeuse silk and black velvet as for some reason I have a thing about textures in that I will only wear soft luxurious fabrics.

 

Music I followed at the time was My Dying Bride and Incubus Succubus which later expanded to Type O Negative and Opeth, I still have the music and I play it often still along with a new one; Haggard.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Sa Skimrande

[darkshine]

My New Rock Reactors were second hand off ebay, slightly too small but I stretched one of the boots, they were the ones with the red flames, but as I said were, because I scraped off the red down to leather as the red was paint and painted the scraped areas with a stuff called ''cadet shine'', which is a paint that gives a high shine black patent look, the same stuff that is also called 'Tornado nose cone paint' which was originally used by RAF personel on their parade shoes to make an easy 'bulled' effect, a high shine without the labour involved to create it with ''KIWI parade gloss polish'' which took hours. The effect was to create different shades of black and the buckles I also painted black. The metal plates on the soles had long since broken and fell off so I made my own out of more durable aluminium.

 

I'm noting the name of the paint for future reference - how did you stretch one of them? I keep meaning to do that with a pair of boots I have but haven't been sure how to go about it.

 

When I was about 14 or 15 I used to have a real thing for Doctor Martins, I didn't have a clue what I was doing but I heard that you could melt the polish and it would work better, I spent hours messing with various processes, melting polish on a teaspoon and then pouring it onto the leather - it worked quite well but the effect was quite matt - it did used to shine up but took an eternity I later added a top layer of dubbin and that seemed to be less time consuming, in all I must have spent many hours with brushes and rags but I was committed to the process and they had to shine.

 

A couple of years later I sort of lost the plot with mental health and depression, AS played a part too (although I was unaware of that at the time) and my boots were getting very scuffed so I decided to add rips in the leather (completely impractical for wet days) but I wanted them to look different, and for some reason it felt symbolic of how I felt at the time.

 

Oh and the original Goth look was improvised and is not anything like the new teeny bop goths that are industry led. My gear was and still is leather, silk and velvet where I have had to make the shirts I require in the past, through not being able to find them commercially apart from the goth shop poorly made rubbish that costs loads. The shirts I made were the pirate/poet type in black charmeuse silk and black velvet as for some reason I have a thing about textures in that I will only wear soft luxurious fabrics.

 

Alas I have almost no skill whatsoever when it comes to working with fabric or cloth for clothing, I have tried many times and this is definitely a weak area for me, although I only ever tried with a needle and thread.... however, I did have some ability with leather but I'm not sure that fixing a pals boots or sewing up a split in a leather sofa counts.

 

I preferred my own take on the goth scene, some of the clothes in the goth shop were ok, but finding quality was difficult and you are absolutely right, most of it was poorly made and cost a lot but there did used to be the odd rare find for a reasonable price - it was easier to cut and add things to the clothes I could find.

 

To be honest, I have sold out, the couple of goth years were brilliant, I've never been one to follow trends in fashion and people used to comment on my eclectic tastes especially the phase I went through that linked into the goth years where I experimented with various fabrics such as hemp and velvet - but I have sold out I'm afraid, the years of depression and struggles with identity have led me to a dull place of jeans and t-shirts with the sleeves cut off (I find I have a massive urge to keep my arms bare possibly due to the years of hiding them when self-harming).

 

But I find more and more that I'm wanting to explore with things like attire again, most of what I own now is generic and works well for me to fade into the background - not that I wear most of what I own, I rotate between 3 pairs of almost identical jeans and a few mutilated t-shirts.... I used to like the velvet.... and I used to like experimenting...

 

Music I followed at the time was My Dying Bride and Incubus Succubus which later expanded to Type O Negative and Opeth, I still have the music and I play it often still along with a new one; Haggard.

 

I quite liked the Haggard music video you put up a short while ago - oddly enough, through my goth time I was listening to music that didn't entirely tie in to it... although that's not unusual for me.

 

I'm listening to some of the music by the artists you mentioned, its reminding me of things I have forgotten about myself - which could be a good thing since I have quite successfully buried a lot of myself over the last decade, it is interesting to me to rediscover some things that I never fully explored at the time.

 

I've yearned for death for so many years, I find it strange to see my feelings edge the other way towards life, but I find myself standing with one foot either side of a gap at the moment, it is very disconcerting and I find that I fear the hope that is seeping into my world, yet part of me is waking up and it is sort of exciting and scary all at once.

[Sa Skimrande]

First off, how to 'Bull' shoes or boots, ( Bulling as in male cow poo, as that is what it all was, just stuff to keep the brass happy in that if we were not actually working, we were working on our kit and billet, their shoes came already bulled with the patent look finish as officers were too good to do menial stuff).

 

1. Scrape off any existing polish, back to bare leather if you dare, but you need a smooth surface to start with, some of the real shinies

( people who tended to get promoted through looking good ) would even sand the leather back using different grades of sandpaper until the leather itself was almost shiny without polish.

 

2. Start with bog standard KIWI black, heat it until it becomes a smooth paste, at the same time warm the leather, then smooth on the mobile shoe polish keeping it as even as possible and smooth, manipulate it with a dampened soft cloth, keep lobbing on the warm paste until you have an even surface to your liking, but not too thick as it is heartbreaking when hours of work cracks off with the first flex, oh and don't let the polish become too hot that it bubbles as you are expelling the oils and you need them and don't let the polish catch fire it burns like a chip pan and sets off smoke alarms making you very unpopular.

 

3. Then with a damp soft cloth work the surface up to a shine and keep adding more cold solid polish rubbed onto the cloth until you get depth of shine, something like eight to ten layers of polish.

 

4 Then switch to KIWI Parade gloss and go at it again but this time using cotton wool polishing in small circular movement until you have a mirror black.

 

5 After about a minimum of two hours work more like four to six hours look at what you have done and think what a waste of time, get the cadet shine as you will find as soon as you wear the bulled footwear no matter how careful you are it will crack and flake. Of course RSM's and other shinies like to see your hard work flaking off, as it proves you have done it, but anyone that does not have flaking shoe polish the scrotes would stand on the shoe and if the surface did not break you found yourself on a charge for defacing government property with paint, where you would get billed the cost of the shoes as well.

 

Getting charged was a right royal p.i.t.a involving more shiny stuff, and the humiliation of being drilled in front of the guard house by someone that didn't want to be there and your free time was taken up by doing menial work usually in the kitchens dealing with the slops after you had finished a hard day's work doing your trade stuff. I got charged four times all for over sleeping and the slops were not the only stuff that went in those bins to feed the pigs, because the smell made me retch.

 

But enough reminiscing

 

How to stretch shoes or boots;

 

Leather you have to consider what it is and you will find it is skin and skin stretches when it's wet, squaddies used to pee on their boots to break them in, uric acid you see, but as said the New Rocks one of my feet is half size bigger than the other so for comfort I had to stretch one and break both of them in for my foot shape as the boots were second hand. So what I did was filled them with hot water until the leather was that sodden it was oozing through the surface from the inside. I then poured out the water, donned thick socks and plastic bags over the socks put on the boots and walked them dry over the big hill in front of my house, speed marching to give the boots a thorough work out. Then I let them dry properly hard stuffed with newspaper and any other absorbant material then when I applied the leather dressing the leather sucked it up like a sponge and kept applying until it would absorb anymore at which point I put a layer of polish on top to seal the moisture in. The result boots that were undersize and shaped to another's foot fit both my feet like a glove where they are warm and comfortable.

 

But don't for f's sake bull your shoes with polish, it's madness, mind I did it when I got married in goth stuff, ( don't worry I deviated slightly from black for the wedding and added burgundy, the ex wore a dress I had made for her by a rock musician from Glastonbury, medieval style in green crushed velvet with a black velvet hooded cloak to include a solid silver Saxon cloak clasp I had made based on one of the Sutton Hoo ship burial finds), but that was the absolute last time I did that, where the patent cadet shine on my New Rocks all it needs is pledge furniture polish to bring back the deep shine, and the paint is very durable too, flexible but durable.

 

But this last Hallowe'en I donned some of my old gothy wear and enjoyed wearing it and since, the stuff has not gone back in the cupboard to go mouldy ( everything does in this place ),but is still out as I think I might go back to it as I felt happy in it that night and I am still wearing the black nail varnish. But the Steam punk fashion sort of appeals to me as well as my gothy clobber is not that far removed from Victorian period attire save for the colours, predominantly burgundy and black and I always fancied wearing the pocket watch and Albert, chain and fob, so much nicer than a wrist watch or far worse a cell phone in hand.

 

For the last few years I had also descended into boringness in terms of attire and quite frankly looking like a bit of a slob in much the same as everyone else, jeans albeit black, boots- my old issued para boots and anything comfortable which I tend to wear for days, weeks sometimes, but I am an individual, not one of the mould, I need to go back to my old self I think and as the saying goes ; Clothes make'th the man, time to stop being a slob I think, clothes I used to enjoy and I will again, mind made up, and I am not cutting my hair again, passed shoulder length now, it can keep on truckin, but I regularly dye it with Henna, not that I have any greys that need colouring, I don't, it is just that Henna is good for long hair and I love the smell of it, where I sometime bung in vetivert and patchouli

 

Depression I have found is caused by living a lie, that is trying to fit in with others expectations one sacrifices themselves and that doesn't do us any good at all, but death, it's a waste really when there is so much living that can be done once one frees themselves form others expectations, like the goth scene for example, you said you listened to your own music and dabbled with your own appearance, that is good, that is individual, one finding themselves via creativity, but as soon as we deviate from ourselves, well I know what happens, we lose ourselves and then depression forces us to stop and think and find our way back to ourselves again. For the world outside is false, it is a construct nothing else and everyone scurrying around in it are trying to find their individual ways, it is chaos.

 

Darkshine you call yourself, for you know there is light in darkness, if you feel a tinge of the old magic exciting you, isn't that a clue ?

 

I was going to finish with a poem I used to use as inspiration years ago, but it seems to have disappeared along with my old myspace account, but it was all about the light in the dark.

[darkshine]

But don't for f's sake bull your shoes with polish, it's madness, mind I did it when I got married in goth stuff, ( don't worry I deviated slightly from black for the wedding and added burgundy, the ex wore a dress I had made for her by a rock musician from Glastonbury, medieval style in green crushed velvet with a black velvet hooded cloak to include a solid silver Saxon cloak clasp I had made based on one of the Sutton Hoo ship burial finds), but that was the absolute last time I did that, where the patent cadet shine on my New Rocks all it needs is pledge furniture polish to bring back the deep shine, and the paint is very durable too, flexible but durable.

 

I can see why I totally messed up as a teenager, I must have set fire to the polish half a dozen times before I got the knack of not setting it alight, I made a wonderful mess trying to figure it out (not very successfully but reasonably enough - well I thought so at the time) I think I prefer the sound of the cadet shine approach. Thank you for the details of stretching leather, I will try it out, its the sort of task that I need to be in the right mindset for but now I know what to do (in principal) I can have an attempt.

 

But this last Hallowe'en I donned some of my old gothy wear and enjoyed wearing it and since, the stuff has not gone back in the cupboard to go mouldy ( everything does in this place ),but is still out as I think I might go back to it as I felt happy in it that night and I am still wearing the black nail varnish. But the Steam punk fashion sort of appeals to me as well as my gothy clobber is not that far removed from Victorian period attire save for the colours, predominantly burgundy and black and I always fancied wearing the pocket watch and Albert, chain and fob, so much nicer than a wrist watch or far worse a cell phone in hand.

 

I used to carry a pocket watch, I never fully enjoyed it because it worked from a battery and I felt that a winding mechanism would be more appropriate. That was part of my ruffian phase of ripped boots, black jeans and shirts (denim or checked, mainly), so I couldn't use the chain and fob in the correct way so I would place the fob in my rear pocket of my jeans and the watch in the front pocket (it had a long snake link type chain) I thought that was a good look at the time, I am not so certain now upon looking back though.

 

For the last few years I had also descended into boringness in terms of attire and quite frankly looking like a bit of a slob in much the same as everyone else, jeans albeit black, boots- my old issued para boots and anything comfortable which I tend to wear for days, weeks sometimes, but I am an individual, not one of the mould, I need to go back to my old self I think and as the saying goes ; Clothes make'th the man, time to stop being a slob I think, clothes I used to enjoy and I will again, mind made up, and I am not cutting my hair again, passed shoulder length now, it can keep on truckin, but I regularly dye it with Henna, not that I have any greys that need colouring, I don't, it is just that Henna is good for long hair and I love the smell of it, where I sometime bung in vetivert and patchouli

 

I think there's something in what you say, part of my obsolete look is because I don't want to be noticed, but I sacrifice part of myself by appearing as something other than myself. Its a shame that it is so easy to stop doing something that you enjoyed, or to forget that such things gave you pleasure, I find that I've forgotten a lot, mainly due to the fact that I am remembering more and more of late.

 

Depression I have found is caused by living a lie, that is trying to fit in with others expectations one sacrifices themselves and that doesn't do us any good at all, but death, it's a waste really when there is so much living that can be done once one frees themselves form others expectations, like the goth scene for example, you said you listened to your own music and dabbled with your own appearance, that is good, that is individual, one finding themselves via creativity, but as soon as we deviate from ourselves, well I know what happens, we lose ourselves and then depression forces us to stop and think and find our way back to ourselves again. For the world outside is false, it is a construct nothing else and everyone scurrying around in it are trying to find their individual ways, it is chaos.

 

I have lived a lie for half my life under other people's expectations and it crushed me and I lost myself, and what wasn't crushed or lost I buried, I stamped it all out because I didn't feel I should be in this world or was worthy of a place in it.

 

I honestly have deviated from myself so far that it isn't a surprise that I lost my way. I believe that depression does serve a purpose, it does make us stop and work things out, I wish it hadn't taken half of my life to begin to see that there could be a way out of this.

 

Darkshine you call yourself, for you know there is light in darkness, if you feel a tinge of the old magic exciting you, isn't that a clue ?

 

Yes. I do know there is light in the darkness and some of the old magic is unearthing itself, and I find that I am more afraid of this light than I am of the dark, I've spent so long in it and know it so well, all of my adult life has been this way, living in darkness and losing myself, burying the light but it wouldn't go out, no matter how close I came to extinguishing it, I couldn't put it out.

 

I've felt and been so split, into so many pieces, so many me's, that it has been hard trying to discover who is the right one, I'm still not sure, I split myself into so many pieces fractured myself before I was even 20 that it is not only confusing that I do not know this me that is emerging, but it is also frightening seeing some of the pieces come together and seeing that they could well be part of one me and not several.

 

I sort of feel like a die has been cast and set something into motion, I'm trying to find what I need within myself to move in a direction and see where it leads, I think I sometimes go round in so many circles that it isn't a surprise I can't see where I am.

[Sa Skimrande]

Ha, that's an old one everyone is afraid of that, the light not the darkness and is exemplified by the famous piece of writing by Marianne Williamson wrongly attributed to Nelson Mandela who it was thought gave it at one of his inaugural speeches in 1994 where he actually didn't;

 

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.' We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give others permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others ( http://www.aetw.org/mandela.htm)

 

But it is true, we are so used to being put down by everyone and every thing it is hard to not be afraid of the light, because you understand what people are doing when they put someone down, they are gaining power or rather maintaining it, keeping themselves in the cosy little world of nothingness because they are also scared of the light. And this stuff starts early in life; school, that bastion of learning is full of it, then there laws of the land that also put down and not all of the laws are wholesome or even right but we are constantly being put down, then politicians wonder why we are such a negative people with no get up and go in us, they not realising we have been well trained by our country to be negative and that negativity is being bolstered daily. If minds and moods are to be changed attitudes have to change and that is not happening.

 

Part of my own personal realisation from Wednesday was that I had stamped on the madness that used to grip me, that madness was me doing what I felt I wanted to exemplified to outside world in my appearance, it went deeper than that, much deeper for pre diagnosis I was what many called an eccentric where now I am a recluse. Sure I have cleared out all my cupboards and shown my interests the light and have accepted them as just me, so I have nothing hidden anymore, nothing that I am some how ashamed of because of societal expectation and people may take me or leave me as suits their choice, that is up to them not me for I at last know what I am and I am totally comfortable with it. But my personal issue being a recluse, is I need to get out a bit more as fear of people is not going to get any better by remaining a recluse and I also see myself as a die that has been cut as I am here to do stuff, not wither and die like so many are doing daily through fear of the light, for we are all here for something, we all have something to achieve, what that is is the meaning of life but we have to keep trying and do that by following our instincts not the false constructs of the outside world.

 

 

And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give others permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

 

But life is circular it is why so many ancient civilisations and beliefs had a thing about spirals and spiral patterns abound everywhere in found antiquities and nature itself an spirals is one of the reasons why I study so called Sacred Geometry as I understand life to mathematical but with an element of random thrown in just to make things interesting, but the circles on our lives are not exactly circles are they, for each time we come around to where we think we were we are in fact in a different position perhaps adjacent to where we were as exemplified by the Archimedean or linear spiral, thus indicating the experiences we had since the last time we were in what we think of as the same position, we have achieved learning and if we take the spiral pattern as life, no matter how dark things can get, we will eventually move into light as summer follows winter and day follow night. But because of my beliefs based on mathematics and pure laws I understand if we take ourselves out of the equation nature will put us back in it because life is circular, so there being no escape one has to just get on with it.

 

And so belief, spirituality, call it whatever where long ago I learned one of the differences between christianity and paganism was the fact that christians believe life in linear and pagans believe life is circular where I understand they are both right as an Archimedean spiral is the perfect description through it being both linear and circular.

 

The movIe I particularly hate is Groundhog Day, I don't do well with comedies but in that movie I see teaching as life can be groundhog day and it indicates the spiral of life really well.

 

I do have a spirituality and it is 'encompassed' in my daily living through a belief in nature bordering on the Gaia hypothesis that everything is connected and so we all mean something to the universe because the universe created us for a reason and that reason I believe is to experience and learn as we experience for learning is good, positive despite appearing negative at times.

[darkshine]

Part of my own personal realisation from Wednesday was that I had stamped on the madness that used to grip me, that madness was me doing what I felt I wanted to exemplified to outside world in my appearance, it went deeper than that, much deeper for pre diagnosis I was what many called an eccentric where now I am a recluse. Sure I have cleared out all my cupboards and shown my interests the light and have accepted them as just me, so I have nothing hidden anymore, nothing that I am some how ashamed of because of societal expectation and people may take me or leave me as suits their choice, that is up to them not me for I at last know what I am and I am totally comfortable with it. But my personal issue being a recluse, is I need to get out a bit more as fear of people is not going to get any better by remaining a recluse and I also see myself as a die that has been cut as I am here to do stuff, not wither and die like so many are doing daily through fear of the light, for we are all here for something, we all have something to achieve, what that is is the meaning of life but we have to keep trying and do that by following our instincts not the false constructs of the outside world.

 

I've been reclusive, its hard to experience and learn a lot of things that way, maybe part of the madness can be a good thing, but I think such things need to be channelled or they can lead to destructive places - that's my experience at least.

 

 

But life is circular it is why so many ancient civilisations and beliefs had a thing about spirals and spiral patterns abound everywhere in found antiquities and nature itself an spirals is one of the reasons why I study so called Sacred Geometry as I understand life to mathematical but with an element of random thrown in just to make things interesting, but the circles on our lives are not exactly circles are they, for each time we come around to where we think we were we are in fact in a different position perhaps adjacent to where we were as exemplified by the Archimedean or linear spiral, thus indicating the experiences we had since the last time we were in what we think of as the same position, we have achieved learning and if we take the spiral pattern as life, no matter how dark things can get, we will eventually move into light as summer follows winter and day follow night. But because of my beliefs based on mathematics and pure laws I understand if we take ourselves out of the equation nature will put us back in it because life is circular, so there being no escape one has to just get on with it.

 

Oddly enough, the first link you put up is one I am fairly familiar with although my knowledge of geometry in general is very undeveloped, I like the concepts, but sometimes in the living of life it is difficult to maintain a level of self awareness to see that things are progressing and that things are changing.

 

I think the interesting aspect here is the difference between the two, the linear spirals progression seems quite orderly and consistent, whereas the nautilus gets bigger and broader very quickly.

 

Personally the nautilus example appeals more to me, because each time you want to move to the next stage you have more and more to do, and it pushes outwards a lot quicker and seems less uniform, when you pass the point where you pass an inner line its further away, it suggests moving on and each time as you don't pass so close to the previous stages as with the linear spiral.

 

It also gives me an element of patience as I realise that the first steps were easy compared to what needs to be done to proceed - its daunting - but it feels accurate when viewing such things against a human life and gaining experience.

 

With the linear spiral you could keep passing the same point and it would be easy to be unsure as to whether things actually have changed because of following the same lines over and over - that would be a good explanation of the last 30 years of my life, but I reckon for the next 30 the golden mean stuff is a better example as you really have to work and put a hell of a lot in to get to the next stage - I think for some developments in life that is true, sometimes it does take a lot more to move on, sometimes the boundaries have to be pushed right out, and if that happened we would move noticeably further away from the lines we pass from our pasts and as we gain in experience.

[Sa Skimrande]

Geometry, I have an architects drafting board in my flat and a plethora of drawing instruments, some of it from my past and some of it I have sought out as I do love the old Rotring Variant pens where I first used them as an office assistant ( gofer) in an Architects office when I left school in the mid 80's, but with this stuff I play with geometry and try not to use a protractor for angles as angles can be created by compass arcs, the more useful ones anyway.

 

But the Golden Ratio is the ideal spiral to follow if one can as for sure it will require a pretty bullet proof positive mindset and perhaps a mind that does not look backwards for stability as I understand one could lose their grasp quite quickly if they had a period of negativity, but the rewards will be great and perhaps the leaf on the wind mind would do well- don't look down.

 

But I think the ancients were more in tune with the linear spiral, that is the normal folk concerned with day to day work following the seasons year on year, where perhaps only the intellects of the time might move more towards the golden ratio because they have the time whereas someone say concerned with the land, farming their day consisted of what sunlight dictated with perhaps little room for anything else so their knowledge progression through the years of their life might grow steadily.

 

I also believe the linear spiral to be the model of many a normal modern day folk as to just look at it, the societal model; born- school- job-partner- house- family- retire- die- ad infinitum assuming of course the standard societal model is achievable which is looking less and less likely these days.

 

But the Golden ratio is an interesting concept and kudos to the designers of the standard credit card for it's dimensions of 54mm x 86mm creates a ratio of 0.628 which is 0.010 mm off from a perfect golden section.

 

And a cabinet maker friend also employs the golden mean and the fibonacci sequence in designing and making furniture, the idea being the finished article automatically has appeal through divine proportion before anything else is considered.

 

And interesting movie about mathematics and in particular Pi if you can stand the high contrast mono the film is produced in ;

 

 

Thus a warning, just how nutty it can get if we pursue the seeking of the patterns and with me I am confident they are there, I just don't need to prove it to myself and I use geometry for designing stuff to make and sometimes trying to work out the rhyme or reason in British Iron Age asymmetrical curvilinear mirror decoration which was all scribed by compass, and some of the designs have faces in them, like this one if it were viewed upside down.

[darkshine]

But the Golden Ratio is the ideal spiral to follow if one can as for sure it will require a pretty bullet proof positive mindset and perhaps a mind that does not look backwards for stability as I understand one could lose their grasp quite quickly if they had a period of negativity, but the rewards will be great and perhaps the leaf on the wind mind would do well- don't look down.

 

If there's any choice about such things this would be my choice, I do not know what I am capable of, or who I am, I don't know a great deal - but I know this golden ratio concept appeals to me so much more than the linear spiral - from the moment I first saw it months ago, it wouldn't leave my mind, it played on my thoughts until I had to do something with it, so I played with it and fell upon an idea, I converted a concept I had been working on and it just seemed to fall within these rules and it felt right, even in my inexperienced way it felt right and honest, and it still won't leave my thoughts I look for it hoping to see it around me and I am still learning to look and see so its a challenge - but it just won't go away now its here, so I guess if it works for me I had better not look back and not look down

 

But I think the ancients were more in tune with the linear spiral, that is the normal folk concerned with day to day work following the seasons year on year, where perhaps only the intellects of the time might move more towards the golden ratio because they have the time whereas someone say concerned with the land, farming their day consisted of what sunlight dictated with perhaps little room for anything else so their knowledge progression through the years of their life might grow steadily.

 

I also believe the linear spiral to be the model of many a normal modern day folk as to just look at it, the societal model; born- school- job-partner- house- family- retire- die- ad infinitum assuming of course the standard societal model is achievable which is looking less and less likely these days.

 

I see how this could apply to certain things, its interesting to me on a basic level within a persons life - maybe this could hold some importance too, I'm not sure, my thoughts are just initial wonderings but its possible in terms of certain knowledges or experiences in a persons life....

 

It still doesn't appeal to me as strongly as the golden ratio, I see the linear one plodding on forever in close confines and little room for deviation, forever reminding me of what happened before, and my life just doesn't feel like that's how it should be and I didn't see things before in the way I'm starting to now - although I admit I have no idea about many things about myself - I just feel the progression the golden ration holds to feel more true, if you take the spiral away and look at only the squares that make it up, each one is going to take longer to fill up, each one will require different things to develop, learn and grow, and each time you go to the next stage its bigger and more open, requires more, it continues onwards in a different way.

 

I see there is value in both concepts in this context but one definitely has grabbed my interest a lot more than the other in the sense of personal growth, knowledge or the pattern of a life and experiences within it.

 

But the Golden ratio is an interesting concept and kudos to the designers of the standard credit card for it's dimensions of 54mm x 86mm creates a ratio of 0.628 which is 0.010 mm off from a perfect golden section.

 

And a cabinet maker friend also employs the golden mean and the fibonacci sequence in designing and making furniture, the idea being the finished article automatically has appeal through divine proportion before anything else is considered.

 

I didn't know that about the credit card - do you think divine proportion works on a sort of subliminal level that people just naturally connect to given that this sequence is apparent in the world around us?

 

And interesting movie about mathematics and in particular Pi if you can stand the high contrast mono the film is produced in ;

 

Thus a warning, just how nutty it can get if we pursue the seeking of the patterns and with me I am confident they are there, I just don't need to prove it to myself and I use geometry for designing stuff to make and sometimes trying to work out the rhyme or reason in British Iron Age asymmetrical curvilinear mirror decoration which was all scribed by compass, and some of the designs have faces in them, like this one if it were viewed upside down.

 

I can stand high contrast mono - I think that although to some degree seeking patterns does drive me mad, mainly because I don't have enough knowledge yet to even remotely have anything like a more in depth understanding - but then if I learn more I have the very strong inkling that that might not be enough either...

 

Sometimes I think one has to be content with seeing the brilliance in the world without knowing everything that goes on behind the scenes.

[Sa Skimrande]

If there's any choice about such things this would be my choice, I do not know what I am capable of, or who I am, I don't know a great deal - but I know this golden ratio concept appeals to me so much more than the linear spiral - from the moment I first saw it months ago, it wouldn't leave my mind, it played on my thoughts until I had to do something with it, so I played with it and fell upon an idea, I converted a concept I had been working on and it just seemed to fall within these rules and it felt right, even in my inexperienced way it felt right and honest, and it still won't leave my thoughts I look for it hoping to see it around me and I am still learning to look and see so its a challenge - but it just won't go away now its here, so I guess if it works for me I had better not look back and not look down

 

 

 

I see how this could apply to certain things, its interesting to me on a basic level within a persons life - maybe this could hold some importance too, I'm not sure, my thoughts are just initial wonderings but its possible in terms of certain knowledges or experiences in a persons life....

 

It still doesn't appeal to me as strongly as the golden ratio, I see the linear one plodding on forever in close confines and little room for deviation, forever reminding me of what happened before, and my life just doesn't feel like that's how it should be and I didn't see things before in the way I'm starting to now - although I admit I have no idea about many things about myself - I just feel the progression the golden ration holds to feel more true, if you take the spiral away and look at only the squares that make it up, each one is going to take longer to fill up, each one will require different things to develop, learn and grow, and each time you go to the next stage its bigger and more open, requires more, it continues onwards in a different way.

 

 

Yes, it is the 'rooms' that bother me for do you understand the concept 'tired', for I am that which I know is depression and where new things don't entice nor spark my imagination so much anymore, but living small is what we are encouraged to be and when we try to break the mould we get hammered down quickly as no one is 'allowed' to thrive in this society unless they keep others sweet as well and so I understand the failing of this country is the system itself and we will not be anything better unless there is a massive change of thinking, for right now this society through various organisations is stamping on it's talent.

 

I see there is value in both concepts in this context but one definitely has grabbed my interest a lot more than the other in the sense of personal growth, knowledge or the pattern of a life and experiences within it.

 

 

 

I didn't know that about the credit card - do you think divine proportion works on a sort of subliminal level that people just naturally connect to given that this sequence is apparent in the world around us?

 

Yes, there are natural patterns we are attracted to and the golden ratio is one of them, but as an experiment for yourself look at where it is in artisan products and I find much that I keep tends to have a pattern about it, one I know, or one I have yet to work out for it strikes me there are other patterns perhaps not yet found as we simply don't know everything.

 

I can stand high contrast mono - I think that although to some degree seeking patterns does drive me mad, mainly because I don't have enough knowledge yet to even remotely have anything like a more in depth understanding - but then if I learn more I have the very strong inkling that that might not be enough either...

 

Sometimes I think one has to be content with seeing the brilliance in the world without knowing everything that goes on behind the scenes.

 

My pattern searching I know drives my friends mad, but they have at least said if they observe the pattern I am seeing they see the truth emerge, and it is with people though I cannot work out their motives, most work to a pattern and once you know the pattern you can see what they are going to do, and so be ready for it.

 

But part of maturity is acceptance and so much these days I just accept instead of trying to search out every last detail as when one does that, one can lose track of the original question.

[darkshine]

Yes, it is the 'rooms' that bother me for do you understand the concept 'tired', for I am that which I know is depression and where new things don't entice nor spark my imagination so much anymore, but living small is what we are encouraged to be and when we try to break the mould we get hammered down quickly as no one is 'allowed' to thrive in this society unless they keep others sweet as well and so I understand the failing of this country is the system itself and we will not be anything better unless there is a massive change of thinking, for right now this society through various organisations is stamping on it's talent.

 

I have been tired too.... I suppose that its about balance, of yourself as an individual against the society in which we live. Society might stamp on talent and have a harmful kind of thinking, but in such circumstances I can't help but think that we have to be true to ourselves first before we can make a real contribution to society - and then society can basically take it or leave it.

 

The mould is not right for me Sa Skimrande, so what do I do? What do you do? Or anyone else for that matter? For if we do not fit the mould without pain and depression, and if we break the mould we get hammered, and if society does not "allow" people to thrive.... then I guess we have to find a new way, find our inner strength and not get hammered for if we are true to ourselves and find inner strength and understanding then it matters not what everyone else thinks.

 

If we understand why the majority cannot break the mould then maybe that understanding can provide us with tools in which to work - you say you work with metal? I saw some of the photo's you put up showing some of the things you have made. Are people not like metal? Don't some metals bend easily while others are rigid and brittle? The heating temperatures are different, the colour, the finish, some polish up wonderfully while others hold beauty in their subtlety.

 

I think one of the things that made me feel a bit better is the second line of my signature that appears below every post I make, there are people of value out there, people who can truly inspire us, but they are not the majority, they are not everywhere and we have to seek them out with open eyes and open hearts, and they are worth finding I know it. For if we don't not look we do not see, and sometimes I reckon people can be like a nugget of precious metal buried in the earth, they can show themselves like the sun rises in the morning, or maybe as something very undeveloped that we have to seek out and discover, that when worked with can become intricately wonderful, or strong and steady - who knows? But if we do not look we do not find out.

 

But part of maturity is acceptance and so much these days I just accept instead of trying to search out every last detail as when one does that, one can lose track of the original question.

 

I struggle with acceptance, but I find myself becoming more accepting and it makes it easier within myself, I don't feel so much turmoil. I think that you are right, in searching out every last detail the original question can be lost track of... But by the same gesture I did have acceptance in my depression and that acceptance was not a true acceptance, it was a negative reaction to the world around me and the people in it and my opinions and feelings based on certain events from my life.

 

It's easy to lose faith, hope, belief and become battered and weak, and I believe that the answer lies within ourselves because in constant looking inwards or outwards we do not see the whole picture....

 

Sometimes maybe we are like clay, we can be moulded by others and fired and we can become fixed as something in their minds and in our own, as something we are not, maybe in returning to ourselves we can rework ourselves and make our own mould, our own design and find inner peace in doing so.

[Sa Skimrande]

And with that I will thank you for now because whilst reading that, I was also thinking of a metalwork problem I have at the moment of how to determine the correct shape and size of a void in order to make a plate to fit that void so I can get onto the next stage which is making 'walls' ( as in champleve enamelling ), so I can fill the void with cold set resin enamel.

 

Of course what you said has no bearing whatsoever on the problem I had, but the idea just came as I was reading what you wrote, whereas I have been puddling about this problem over the last few days and I have a deadline to meet, xmas, a present for my mother.

[darkshine]

Glad to have indirectly assisted - my mind does that when I'm working on a problem, suddenly something completely unrelated gives me the inspiration I was looking for - its like the cogs in my mind line up and take me to another place,

 

What does your name mean? It reminds me of Swedish or Norwegian words...

[Sa Skimrande]

It is Swedish for something I have not yet discerned exactly, I should ask the Swedes in the family but I haven't yet, but I took the name from a book of the same name, a book on photography a family member gave me to remind me of what I could have had if I had had the wherewithall to stay in Sweden and give it more of a go at living there. But I quit through communication, sure I could learn Swedish and did reasonably, enough to get by, but it's not just the language is it, it is others and how one fits in with them, what we experience here in the UK but magnified massively for the Swedes are a different culture to us- a largely under populated country and not generally gregarious in most apart from some cities, a person on their own if lonely could get lost and my mind at the time was bad enough pre diagnosis AS, I just did not fit in.

 

The same there to get citizenship one has to work, but no one gives work to immigrants without papers, one is an immigrunt until one is known so much for the EC dream, it doesn't exist. The option was black market work cash in hand in places one should not be or return to the UK and go on the dole. One job came up I was set to go on involving black market work working on a military base, knowing what I know of military security I declined the offer and returned home to a job I had applied for on line and been assured the position on the strength of my cv and inquiries the employer had made. I lasted one day short of two years when I was made redundant and the last five years I have been a benefit scrounger, the number one or is it number two public enemy according to media education.