Help - trying to change from mainstream to AS special needs school - advise needed please.

[Flower1983]

Hello. My 9 year old son is currently in a mainstream school. He is really struggling to conform and the school aren't meeting his needs. He's very down and is crying and begging me daily to let him move schools.

I have looked around a school which is for boys with Aspergers. My son fits the criteria perfectly but according to the potential new school and the local authority, it'll be a fight to get him in. This is due to the cost of the school as its very expensive for the local authority & there is another local mainstream school with an EMS unit for autism.

My son has a diagnosis of Aspergers and a full statement.

We have started the ball rolling and have an emergency statement review in 6 weeks time. I have to write a report for the meeting stating why the current school can't meet his needs etc.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and can advise me or give me pointers and tips for the process or as to what to put in the report. Thank you in advance!

[Sally44]

What you are looking for is a lack of progress or deterioration mainstream. So is the gap widening between your son and peers academically, socially or emotionally? Is his ability higher than his achievements? Does he need therapy [speech and language, or occupational therapy] that mainstream cannot provide and the level he needs can only be delivered in this AS specific school?

Does he need small class teaching of no more than 8 pupils [whatever the AS school has and which mainstream cannot provide].

Does he have any diagnosis such as Sensory Processing Disorder for which he NHS does not provide the therapy [sensory Integration Therapy] and only his AS school can provide it?

 

What is his cognitive ability? Is he too able to a LA special school?

 

Regarding any mainstream school with a unit - again what is the ability of the children in the unit and is your son of a similar ability.

 

Does the unit feed children across to mainstream for lessons and can your son cope with that? Does he need a consistent class size of no more than 8 [so feeding across to mainstream would not work].

 

Is he very anxious. Is he refusing school. Is he under Clinical Psychology or CAHMS [if he is refusing school I would get a referal asap to Clinical Psychology, to a team that works with children with Aspergers.

 

Are you talking about primary schools now?

 

My son refused school in the January of primary year 5 and was out of school due to anxiety for the rest of that academic year. He was finally given a diagnosis of an Anxiety Disorder, and also developed OCD.

 

My son has an ASD and also Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, Sensory Processing Disorder, Anxiety Disorder OCD to name a few of the things he has a diagnosis for.

 

We went to an educational tribunal [our second], and we had to get all independent reports, and take them all as expert witnesses and I had to represent myself with help from an organisation called network81. We won.

 

We knew of an ASD specific independent school that had children up to age 19, and where my son would be the youngest, but only by 6-12 months. By the time we won the Tribunal he was in year 6 primary and the Tribunal Decision was that they did not believe he would agree to return to his former primary school due to his experiences there. And that there was no way he would cope with a mainstream secondary school, so we sought an immediate move to the independent school on the grounds that they could meet all his needs, and he could gradually return to that school and not have to go through the transition to secondary school.

 

We also did a few 'technical' things before he actual Tribunal. You can send in Request for Changes forms and ask that a Judge makes a decision on certain aspects of the forthcoming Tribunal, so that you limit what you are covering on the actual day.

 

For example, we asked that the Tribunal only looked at the primary age placement because at the time of the Tribunal Decision there would still be the 'transition review' where secondary could be discussed.

 

We did this because we did not want to discuss the secondary placement at the Tribunal because I was worried the LA might argue that they were building a state of the art ASD unit [which still fed children across to mainstream], which I knew my son would not cope in, but which sounded good on paper.

 

We knew that once the Decision was made by SEND, my son would move to the independent school and start in December, and the Transition Review would be held soon after and the LA would have to name his secondary placement by the end of February in the following year. That only gave 2 months from the Tribunal and we knew that the LA's hands would be tied because they could not amend his placement two months after a Tribunal had named the independent school. And once they had named the independent school as his secondary placement it would be impossible for them to move him again because he would [and has] made such progress.

 

But you have to play your cards very close to your chest and do not let the LA know everything and all your arguments because you simply give them time to put together their own case. It is practically 100% sure that the LA will not agree to your placement choice, but as part of the emergency review you can name the school you want him to attend and the LA must go with your choice unless they can prove it is not suitable, or if they can say it is a bad use of their resources [ie. they have a placement that can meet all his needs and costs less].

 

There is no point getting independent reports now, but do start looking for who you might want to use. You need professionals with experience of writing reports for tribunals and attending as expert witnesses. They are not cheap. And you arrange that those professionals see and assess your son so that their reports are submitted just inside of the deadline for submissions so that the LA do not have the chance of having him re-assessed just before the Tribunal.

 

And unfortunately you have to wait for him to deteriorate to such an extent that his placement breaks down and he is mentally/physically unable to attend school before you have a good chance of winning such a placement.

 

Also start to keep a daily diary of what your son says and does about school. Any physical symptoms of anxiety and stress such as headaches, tummy pain, vomitting, etc.

[Sally44]

Also, be aware that the LA are dealing with children and families like yours on a regular basis. It is not about getting the right things in a report and suddenly the LA will see the light and agree to fund an independent placement. They won't. They will fight tooth and nail not to have to pay those fees and they will do just about anything to achieve it. So be clear that it will involve an educational tribunal.

 

As part of our Tribunal I carried out a Freedom of Information Act search on LA, school and NHS records. I found emails from the LA Inclusion Officer saying that they would fight the placement at all costs and that he had worded the Statement so that it was not legally binding for them to provide the provision it contained. I was shocked when I read that. Because if the Statement had been fulfilled, and if the LAs own professionals had been listened to [apparently they had told the LA he was not mainstream material], we could have saved years of heartache.

[bjkmummy]

just wanted to say that i was in exactly the same position as you just under a year ago. we had an emergency review etc but ultimately we were forced into tribunal to get the school placement.

 

everything sally has advised is exactly what you need to do. sally kindly held my hand as i fought to get the rights school placement and we did win at tribunal and secured an independent asd placement so it can be done - we also represented ourselves

[bed32]

Seems that getting him out of his current placement will be easy, getting him into independent at this stage will be harder. You will need to show that the school the LA propose cannot meet his needs.

 

For that you will need your own independent EP report from a top class psychologist who is prepared to rubbish the LA school.

 

Is he in yr 5? I'm not sure but it may be better to let the LA transfer him and then fight for our preferred school at transition.

[Sally44]

Can you explain what an EMS unit is?

[Flower1983]

Thank you everyone for your advise so far! Very much appreciated!

 

My son is in year 4.

 

EMS (Enhanced mainstream school) - as far as I am aware different mainstream schools can provide specialist provisions for different needs.

My sons current school provides support to children with behavioural, emotional and social difficulties. The school the L.A will probably suggest is enhanced by the Local Authority, to support children with Communication and Interaction difficulties. They would then suggest he goes to the highschool which continues from that school which has a unit for children with Autism.

 

I know a boy with AS who already attends this primary school and it works like Sally said earlier. The children (they currently have 3 pupils) stay in the 'cherry' class for some of their learning and then will go between there and the mainstreem school - suited to the child needs.

I do not feel this will suit my son as he is struggling in a class of 30 now, he's not going to cope with going between a class of 4 and then 30. How is he suppose to take part in all areas of school life, playtime, assembely etc. I also don't know at this point the range of abilities in the 'cherry' class. We have an appointment on Tuesday to look around and ask all these questions.

Also, he does not deal with change very well, this is already his 2nd primary school (due to moving area), he would then go to a 3rd primary and then have the transition to a high school with 1500+ pupils - not good.

The school of our choice is from aged 9 to 18 so only one transistion.

 

The school we would like him to attend is for boys with Aspergers/HF Autism/ADHD. They dont have class sizes larger than 7.

I feel my son can fit in and feel 'normal' here. He cries and begs me not to send him to school and says he just wants to be 'normal' without a 1:1, without a special table, without special jobs & without everyone talking about him.

 

My son is bright and is on the schools gifted and talented register for 3 subjects. The current school is definatley not meeting his need academically.

I would say he is top of the class in most subjects, when he is 'naughty' they sometimes send him in to the year above and the teacher has commented how he is better at maths then most of the year 5 pupils.

My son has 2 friends but it is becoming apparent that children are less forgiving to his outbursts the older they are becoming.

My son tells me that he doesnt know what to do or who to play with in the playground. I feel he gets no support form his 1:1 who supports him at playtime to help him with this. He feels lonely at school.

 

Sally - the questions you ask are all relevent for me to put in the report, with my answers obviously. Thank you! Please can you explain about his cognitive ability?

He has sensory issues which the OT has put in her report from 2 years ago.

Is it worth asking for the OT to come and re assess him so it is more up to date?

 

He is under CAMHS (just). We have an appointment with them in 2 weeks.

He keeps refusing school, feels sick most of the time, cant sleep due to the worry and high anxiety about school, is hurting himself at home & school (head banging on wall and kicking the wall in bare feet mainly) and threatens to kill himself.

 

I keep asking for him to be re reffered to a SALT but so far nothing has come of that. I asked my GP about 6 weeks ago again, but have heard nothing. His speech is fine (apart from he does speak quickly) but I wanted it more for his social use of language.

 

After diagnosis all the professionals who were involved with him have signed him off. It seems to be very difficult to get any support or help from anyone.

 

If we are going down the route of a private Phyc, any ideas of costing for this? I was thinking i would probably have to pay for someone to represent me if it goes to tribunal.

 

Thanks again :-)

[bed32]

If your son is G&T then take care with the AS/HFA type schools - they may not be able to satisfy him academically and may not really represent an appropriate peer group for him. Some are better than others but do read the Ofsted reports, and look at their positions in the league tables.

 

A private EP will cost between £1500 - £3000, and you would probably want a private SALT as well - you should be lining them up now as the good ones are usually booked up a long way ahead (and if you want to get him into an independent school then you need a good one!) Going to tribunal is expensive, if you get someone to represent you then the total cost could be over £10000.

 

As you will find there is unlikely to be much CAMHS can do - they are much more geared towards Mental Health than disability, but you may be lucky in finding someone who knows about ASD.

[Sally44]

cognitive ability is about the childs intellectual skills. It should be assessed using "standardised assessments" which can identify his strengths and weaknesses. The same applies for SALT, they should have carried out standardised assessments of his receptive and expressive speech and also his social communiction and play skills. Just because a child can talk does not mean they have no speech and language difficulties. He must have them to have gotten a diagnosis in the first place. He will have problems with comprehension, inference, literal interpretation,work meanings, formulating sentences, imagination etc. That will affect his school work and his social interaction.

 

For the emergency review I would just be quite general about things and say that "all of my sons needs are not detailed in part 2 of the Statement [such as anxiety, self harm etc - list them]. Therefore the Statement does not quantify provision to meet all of his needs. As parents we do not think our son is coping in the current placement due to the self harm and anxiety he is displaying at home and his school refusal. We would like him placed at xxxxxxx school which is for children with ASD and which goes up to age 18."

 

That is all you need to say. Try not to be drawn as to what you specifically want in part 2 or 3. Just say that you would like the EP, SALT and OT to assess your son using standardised assessments so that they do identify all of his needs.

 

It is 99.9% sure they will not agree to amend to your placement in part 4. But after the emergency review, when you get the Decision letter from the LA as to whether to amend or not, you have the right to appeal to SEND, and that is what it will take.

 

I would recommend you phone www.ipsea.org.uk to find out what the timescale is for an LA to send out their Decision letter after an emergency review. After the emergency review you should get a copy of the report sent to the LA [and all the report prepared for the emergency review - has anyone done an up to date report?].

 

If the LA do not issue a Decision letter in a timely manner, as advised by IPSEA, I would recommend you lodge a complaint with the LGO about the delay in the LA issuing their Decision letter after an emergency review - which my its very name suggests there is some urgency to get a Decision.

[Flower1983]

I think the school will be fine academically, they have boys doing maths alevels a few years before they are meant to. Each child has an individual timetable based on their needs and ability. It slightly does worry me socially as he'd be the youngest with most boys being high school age. Also, a lot of the boys are happy with their own company. My son does want friends, just struggles to make them in the first place and then keep them.

Still tho, its got to be better then the stress & anxiety of where he is now. Where his peers are moving on from him and know his triggers so are horrible to him as he gives such a spectacular reaction for them to watch.

 

Sally - that is all brilliant and so helpful as I'm at a loss as to how much and what I need to write in this report. Parent partnership want me to email a copy to them first to check it before the meeting.

Would you at this point say that we have viewed the L.A school with the communication unit and why we don't feel that school is suitable?

 

Thank you!

[Sally44]

You will need your parental choice of school to demonstrate that they can put together a peer group class. My son is in a mixed age class. He was the youngest to go there last year, but since he joined as a year 6, it enabled the school to prove that they did have younger children and so now they also have a primary class.

 

If he is 9 now, you are going to be at tribunal when he is 10, or thereabouts, so if they have other children who are 11 that should be okay. But if he was 8 in a year the 3 year age gap would be too great.

 

You can say that about the LA school. But they may push you for specifics. Do you know what level those children in the unit are working at? If he is average/gifted, it is not a suitable peer group if they are much lower than him acdemically, or socially or emotionally. You could just say it is not a suitable peer group for your son, and that he is not coping mainstream.

 

Find out exactly what your choice of school provides for their fees - this is very important because if they don't provide for whatever is recommended by your independent professionals, you will need to get quotes for that additional provision, whatever that maybe.

 

If your son does want to socialise, but has problems doing so, this school should have some other children who also want to interact. Do they have social communication groups?

 

For example my son has severe dyslexia and dyscalculia. The independent school did not have any teacher qualified to both teach and assess children with dyslexia, so we had to get quotes for the LA to fund that on top of the fees. Remember that the Statement does not have a monetary limit, and it is unwise to try to get as little provision as possible because you worry the Panel will not agree to fund it. If you have reports that state a need and quantify provision, then that is what the Statement MUST contain, and the more provision, the less likely any LA school could deliver it. My son's fees are around £50K a year + £10Kpa for dyslexia teacher, plus £10K for one night respite in school.

 

If he has sensory issues you really need a diagnosis of Sensory processing Disorder and an independent OT to specify hours of Sensory Integration Therapy [which your choice of school can provide and which no LA school or NHS provides]. But if you just have "sensory difficulties" detailed in the Statement that is not the same thing, and the LA could say they would buy in an OT for xx hours per term and that a TA would deliver the OT programme. So it is very important that you understand that you really need a diagnosis for each difficulty your son has.

 

If my son did not have the diagnosis of dyslexia [and I fought the LA for years to get him assessed until I went independently], then he would not have got the specialist dyslexia teacher. Once they have a diagnosis they need appropriate teaching/therapy, and an independent EP would quantify xx hours of specialist teaching each week/term from a dyslexia teacher qualified to both teach and assess [must be qualified to do both otherwise how can they measure progress].

 

The Parent Partnership can be useful, but remember that they are also employed by the LA. So keep your cards close to your chest with them because they will tell the LA what you are saying and wanting.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Sally44

[Flower1983]

Hello

We have now looked around the mainstream school that the LA want our son to go to.

We went very open minded as we decided it could be a good place and if its that difficult to get him in to Aspergers school, then this may be an option.

Anyway, the head mistress said to us that she didn't feel it was a suitable setting for our son.

The schools specialist provision is for children with speech, language & communication difficulties, and autism. For children who have been out of mainstream for a while and will benefit from the transition period of a small class to mainstream.

None of that is suitable for our son. Why pull him from one mainstream to another, where he'll start off in a classroom which takes children from reception age onwards, mainly with speech & communication problems, all different academic ability.

As it is a speech etc school, it is absolutely covered from floor to ceiling in picture, words etc. visual sensory overload.

It also is on huge grounds and the gates aren't locked. My son runs off from school (and me) and myself and the head had concerns about that. She said she wouldn't let him play out often due to the worry of that.

My sons current school have said they can't back us up to the LA for AS school, as my son is moving on educationally. What about his other needs tho?

2 big incidents have happened this week, he's run off and got to the gate, had to be restrained and brought back in. Got a phone call on fri at work to say there had been an incident that morning where he had attacked at 1:1, run off to the music room and thrown stuff around - my son says its because he was making an Easter card and the 1:1 said 'you can do better then that' - which then caused a meltdown.

Got review meeting mid April. Stuck as what to do really. At least we've ruled out school LA want him to go to. As long as they can't make him go there?

If we keep him where he is (as we have no back up from current school now) - how much say so we have in his next 1:1? What else can we suggest to make his life happier there?

It's all so difficult! We just don't know what's best for him.

Sorry for the rant. Thank you in advance for any advise

[bed32]

We have similar issues with our 9 year old son. He really struggles in mainstream, and the school find him very difficult to manage, but he is well above average in some areas, and "gifted" in a couple. We looked at pretty much every special needs school within an hour of here (and we are in S London so there are a good few) and eventually decided that none of the special schools was an option, At his age they were all for children with much more specialised needs. We are lucky that our current mainstream school is very supportive (if lacking the skills really needed) and his class mates are very understanding so we decided to keep him there until the transition at Yr 7 (when we will have a problem).

 

He has a statement - the first version of this was useless - it did give 1:1 but that was about it. So we got a range of experts and went to tribunal. As a result we got provision that stands a chance of succeeding in mainstream (SALT, OT, CBT, 1.5 TAs) as part of that there is some wording (although not enough) around the experience of each.

 

I think if you want to keep him in mainstream (and I think that may be the best approach) you need to get the statement modified to give the provision you want; In terms of what say you have over the next TA - technically all you can do is require that they comply with the statement, in practice I would hope that the school will consult you but they are likely to be constrained by budget. The best approach would be to make sure that the statement explicitly states the required experience.

 

The LA cannot make your son go to a special school - you have the absolute right to a mainstream education that they cannot override. Also they can'r really force you to move school unless the school he is at says that him being there impacts the education of other children.

 

So if you want to keep him in mainstream you will need to find a good independent psychologist to write a recipe of the support he needs in the mainstream environment. Ask for that at the review meeting, and then go to appeal when the LA refuses. If you have a review meeting shortly then try to find evidence that his current 1;1 is not coping (and lashing out at him, running away is pretty strong evidence) and use that to show that you need a higher level TA with AS experience - the school may support you in asking the LA for that, and if it is all you are asking then the LA may concede.

 

See if you can get the opinion of the head of the alternative school to say in writing that they are not appropriate and why, Then you could look at local independents, if you don't want him to go to one then if the LA know you are considering one then they may be more flexible in considering increased provision in the current Mainstream setting - it can do no harm to try it. If you do want to get him into an independent then you need to take a different strategy.

[Sally44]

The Statement process is going to run along, then the tribunal process. Your son will remain where he is until the Decision of the SEND Tribunal Panel.

 

At the moment you concentrate on the Statement and getting all his needs identified in part 2, and getting provision to meet each of those needs quantified and specified in part 3.

 

The LA will issue a proposed Statement. It will be pants. You will negotiate with them for a couple of weeks, and then due to the legal timescales involved the LA will have to finalise the Statement. It will still be pants.

 

So you lodge an appeal. The appeal date will be made about 4-6 months from you lodging the appeal. You can negotiate with the LA right up to the appeal itself.

 

I would start looking now for the school you want [don't bother to mention it to the LA yet, because they won't agree anyway]. And also look for the independent professionals you may want to assess your son [sALT, EP, OT etc] and get dates provisionally booked once you have your appeal date.

 

Then you send in your evidence for the appeal which will be all your independent reports and your parental choice of placement [which will be the placement you want him at, that can meet all his needs and can provide all the therapy detailed in the independent reports you have commissioned].

 

Your son has a trial period at your choice of school and the school offers your son a place in writing.

 

By law, the LA must go with your parental choice of school [even if it is an independent one], as long as it is a suitable placement, and as long as it is a good use of their resources.

 

The latter argument is the one they are likely to argue. Ie. they have a mainstream school that can meet all his needs and which is a better use of their resources [ie. costs less].

 

So your reports have to state things that a mainstream school cannot provide eg.

 

small class sizes of no more than 8 pupils.

ASD peer group.

Similar cogntive, emotional and social development.

Specialist teaching [ASD qualification or dyslexia qualification if relevent]

Speech therapist on site.

Occupational therapist on site.

Therapy can be delivered flexibly across the week [ie. not a once a week appointment that your son could miss due to 'running off', not engaging etc. If the therapists are employed on site they can see your son later that day or on another day during the week. With the 'appointment' system he would miss his therapy until the following week.]

Specific therapy that can only be delivered in your choice of school, such as Sensory Integration Therapy [the NHS does not provide it or fund it - so it has to be bought in privately].

 

Get in writing that the LA choice of school cannot meet his needs and is not a suitable peer group and that they have concerns for his safety due to running off. Send in a letter of your conversation eg. "Thank you for seeing me on xxxx, when we discussed my son and whether xxxxx school is a suitable placement for him. You said xxxxxx etc."

 

Then see what they reply. They may not reply. But you will have this letter you sent as evidence of what you were told. And you need to get everything on paper because you cannot submit 'verbal conversations' as evidence. It has to be on paper in correspondence or reports.

[Jazzy'smum]

Hi, I know this may sound a little odd but do you work or receive benefits? If you do receive benefits you could be eligible for Legal aid, we received it and we had our private assessments and reports taken care of by the solicitors etc. They cannot represent you at tribunal but they build your case for you and I do not know what i would have done without them.