Being shy/a loner is anti social behaviour now?

[dekaspace]

Was watching something at weekend on tv and this person(a teacher i think) was going on about what was normal though I dont think they directly called it normal behaviour but made out that normal behaviour was interacting with the world, having friends, making an effort to do something like work hard at school and loads of things along that lines.

 

They then mentioned anti social behaviour then said "sitting in corner alone, not socialising, being a loner" and everything along those lines, so basically they are indirectly saying that unless you are loud and popular there is something wrong with you and that being shy or similar is your own fault(and part of me thinks they are saying you can just change it since its not normal behaviour)

[dotmarsdotcom]

good post dekaspace.

 

<--posts a thumbs up!

 

i wouldn't worry much about what "TV" says is normal?

 

i could do a 1000 page monologue on that.

 

what you have to bear in mind, is the people who usually generate that sort of output are "post university sorts with cough "masters"", (who ain't got a job or a career),

 

so friends of their dad's give em £500 to carry their articles.. etc. blah blah. as an act of kindness.

 

we usually just call that sort of rubbish column filers. no one reads it?

 

my reply to you sir is... ignore it.

 

(or just put yourself in their positions.. they are just starting out in the business world, and their dad's mate has paid his mates to pay them a trivial amount to publish what ever they come up?)

 

all the best

[Aeolienne]

what you have to bear in mind, is the people who usually generate that sort of output are "post university sorts with cough "masters"", (who ain't got a job or a career),

 

so friends of their dads give 'em £500 to carry their articles.. etc. blah blah. as an act of kindness.

For the record, I have an MSc and no job or career.

[dotmarsdotcom]

hi again aeolienne,

 

I've just read my post again, and can't believe I did such a rant.

 

can't imagine what was in my head when I typed that.

 

but just so you know, the comment wasn't about you or anything you said,

 

it was about "some" TV shows and how they present what is meant to be "normal" and what isn't, and my personal opinion about how I tend to take such shows with a pinch of salt.

 

sorry if there was any misunderstandings.

[Mihaela]

I gave up watching TV years ago. Far to often it seems to reflect a way of life very alien to me, and I found it was making me annoyed and depressed.

[dekaspace]

I remember arguing on a website a few days earlier as it listed health problems with the general public and it mentioned learning difficulties as a HEALTH issue and all I did was say "learning difficulties is a health problem now" To get a reply of "well it is" and a huge amount of thumbs down.

 

I got a bit annoyed with that as I meant it in the physical way and by saying it was a health problem it implied they were saying having a learning difficulty meant you were not normal i.e had a fault.

[dotmarsdotcom]

i feel the same way.

 

social/ mental difficulties is not a "health issue"

 

i mean normal people have social difficulties?

 

I've seen social dysfunctionals where no mental issues are at fault?

 

it's just people having made the wrong choices.

 

but then again I see the NT people's view on how I feel... they'd probably have their own views :-(

 

deep subject... there is no answer :-( i wish there was.

[The Exodus]

It's not considered the norm because those with social anxiety act out differently to most other children that socialise. Chances are, most children will have had some friends that they would speak with and play with in, say, nursery or early primary school because that's just a childlike behaviour. I don't agree that being socially anxious is necessarily a bad thing, nor should it be considered "anti social behaviour". I spent my entire life with only a few friends, but nobody seemed to mention the fact that I was so quiet or anxious, at least not to such an extent that it was recognised as a potential disorder (I was diagnosed with Aspergers only a couple months ago and I'm now 18; beyond school life). My point is that I feel this should be recognised as an issue, but at the same time not treated as being intentionally malevolent.

[Laddo]

To be honest I think being shy has always been seen as antisocial. It is quite ironic considering the loudest and most 'outgoing' people tend to be horrible, corrupt human beings when you chip away the surface. They tend to be the type who feel most comfortable complaining about other people behind their backs. They are usually very manipulative, too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is something very wrong with a society that praises the manipulative and demonises those that are shy. Most of the shyest people I know are incredibly nice people once you get to know them, but the trouble is the twisted society we live in doesn't allow them to come out of their shell. Introverts are essentially the 'runts' of the human race

[Mihaela]

I agree with you completely, Exodus and Laddo.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is something very wrong with a society that praises the manipulative and demonises those that are shy.

You're certainly not wrong! It doesn't take much reasoning on ethical matters to come to this conclusion. Any society, any culture, inevitably embodies the collective psychology of its members - a sort of 'averaged' mass personality. So it's pretty obvious that our current English society is highly dysfunctional, and the same can be said for all 'advanced' societies. Anthropological studies have shown that far more compassionate and far less judgmental societies/cultures do exist or have once existed. The problem with capitalist societies is that they tend to attract ruthlessly ambitious people - both politicians and business leaders. (Capitalist ideology has no ethical basis: it views greed, power and ruthlessness as virtues, and has distorted interpretations of 'progress' and 'success'). These types of people make atrocious role models, as do most 'celebrities' - they work against the natural order of life - which is all about nurturing and caring, being in harmony with our environment, living peacefully, etc. Morally we know this is right, but in practice the pressures of society are so strong that few of us escape their stranglehold. We submit to our weaknesses, blindly following the herd, and confine our caring sides to our families and close circle of friends.

[verbeia]

To me antisocial means being aggressive to others or very inconsiderate. I think they mean to say 'asocial', which means indifferent to others (still not true if you're actually shy). A lot more emphasis in education now is being put on leadership and speaking out. I can see this might prepare young people for the tough world of business management, but that's only one line of work, people with other skills are also needed in the workplace.

[Mihaela]

Few Aspies are even asocial, for we're not indifferent to others; we just can't take them in large doses - unless we share special interests.

The kind of active leadership being promoted that you speak of isn't a good kind. Passive leadership is far better - when others look up to you simply because you show integrity and practise what you preach. Political and business leaders rarely show these qualities.

[Laddo]

To me antisocial means being aggressive to others or very inconsiderate. I think they mean to say 'asocial', which means indifferent to others (still not true if you're actually shy). A lot more emphasis in education now is being put on leadership and speaking out. I can see this might prepare young people for the tough world of business management, but that's only one line of work, people with other skills are also needed in the workplace.

 

 

I am oh-so sick of the current obsession with 'business' in this country! When I say 'business' I mean all the worst parts of business, too - manipulating others, using ridiculous buzzwords and the constant lying and altering of truth. Young people are being pushed away from following their dreams and pushed into the execu-world. I did a Business and Communications Systems GCSE which was essentially half ICT and half Business Studies. The business studies side basically taught me nothing useful apart from a few terms and phrases. Now I know it's only GCSE level, but why is this being considered such an important subject when you don't actually learn anything? You can't really learn how to be a successful businessperson - if you don't have a manipulative, competitive and ruthless personality you will not do well in business. Simple. Plus, it's so irresponsible to hold 'business' in such high esteem when it has been proven through several stock market crashes, recessions and depressions that the current system does not work! The older generations are essentially setting up the younger generations to be drones. And what happens? The ruthless prosper, the meek are trodden on.

 

We need to give future children the tools they need to succeed. This does not include a load of stupid phrases like 'blue sky thinking' and all that waffle - no, they all need to be encouraged so they develop some self esteem, they all need to be able to find and develop their best skills during their school life. They say school is a horrible environment to reflect the working world, well... can't they make the working world more pleasant for everyone including shy people? So there's less unemployment? Stop the depression epidemic? Keep NHS costs down because people tend to be healthier if they're happier? Oh wait, no, that won't let rich people have even more money to buy things they don't need. How selfish of poor and shy people to be fed up with the shocking deal we're getting. How unreasonable.

[Mihaela]

I am oh-so sick of the current obsession with 'business' in this country! When I say 'business' I mean all the worst parts of business, too - manipulating others, using ridiculous buzzwords and the constant lying and altering of truth.

This applies equally to the voluntary sector nowadays. The 'board-room culture' and its inane management-speak has permeated virtually every organisation. I once made a long list of the shallow and meaningless jargon used at these meetings - and vital for successful interviews. It's become a kind business etiquette that opens doors of opportunity for so many - but woefully lacks ant real substance. Of course, the whole idea of 'business studies' along with most of its jargon comes from across the Atlantic, and some of that jargon comes straight from baseball pitch ('ball-park figure', 'whole new ball game', 'cover one's bases', 'touch base', etc.) http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2007-03-30-baseball-jargon_N.htm

 

The business studies side basically taught me nothing useful apart from a few terms and phrases. Now I know it's only GCSE level, but why is this being considered such an important subject when you don't actually learn anything?

Very true. Gullible ('dumbed-down') folk actually do believe that they've learnt skills of importance. In fact all they've learnt is to adopt a certain mindset which is all about using the 'right' language. They use it to impress their equally friends.

 

You can't really learn how to be a successful businessperson - if you don't have a manipulative, competitive and ruthless personality you will not do well in business. Simple.

True again. It requires a certain personality type to 'succeed' - in the popular, but so misguided, meaning of that word.

 

Plus, it's so irresponsible to hold 'business' in such high esteem when it has been proven through several stock market crashes, recessions and depressions that the current system does not work! The older generations are essentially setting up the younger generations to be drones. And what happens? The ruthless prosper, the meek are trodden on.

 

As ever, society never seems to learn from its mistakes. Capitalism simply doesn't work, for by its very nature it generates wealth for the 'lucky' few and poverty and suffering for all the rest - very extreme in many parts of the world. What they now call 'The Economy', that ever-consuming and voracious monster, has become an object of veneration to be propitiated and fed libations in order to grow fat, with the primary aim of making the 'fat cats' who run the show even fatter, at the expense of all other living things.

 

We need to give future children the tools they need to succeed. This does not include a load of stupid phrases like 'blue sky thinking' and all that waffle - no, they all need to be encouraged so they develop some self esteem, they all need to be able to find and develop their best skills during their school life. They say school is a horrible environment to reflect the working world, well... can't they make the working world more pleasant for everyone including shy people? So there's less unemployment? Stop the depression epidemic? Keep NHS costs down because people tend to be healthier if they're happier? Oh wait, no, that won't let rich people have even more money to buy things they don't need. How selfish of poor and shy people to be fed up with the shocking deal we're getting. How unreasonable.

You talk so much common sense! NT society talks so often of 'common sense' but I see very little there. It's all empty talk, and no sense.

History proves that whenever we get an urge to appease a deity ('The Economy'), any type of behaviour becomes acceptable to those who believe in the dogma (capitalism). We are unwittingly sacrificing our humanity, our very souls, to please the Money God.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Mihaela

[Laddo]

History proves that whenever we get an urge to appease a deity ('The Economy'), any type of behaviour becomes acceptable to those who believe in the dogma (capitalism). We are unwittingly sacrificing our humanity, our very souls, to please the Money God.

 

 

The economy has become a deity in the eyes of the majority, hasn't it! I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.

 

This is another contributing factor to my theory that aspies are either a throwback to an earlier species of human or a step forward in evolution. We far less likely to desperately need to appease the Economy God as NTs do. There are of course many religious Aspies but certainly every one I have spoken to is more driven to the loving-and-sharing side of religion rather than trying to appease God by arbitrary means. Could shyness and being a loner partially be so vilified by NTs because it represents a better side of humanity? Considering the modern, loose definition of friendship of knowing people and facts about their personal lives (gossip culture) rather than actually being friends with them, this would not surprise me.

 

I can see ASBOs being handed out for being shy in the next few years. Bleak times for introverts everywhere.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Laddo