School again !!!!

[Viper]

Hi.

 

It all came to a head this morning. Ben flatly refused to get dressed and was not going to school. He screamed, punched, kicked and sobbed his heart out.

 

I rung the school and they said they would send the deputy head to pick him up and he would take him naked if thats what he had to do.

 

I told Ben and he agreed to get dressed and wanted me to take him, I don't drive so we agreed that he could go in his pushchair.

 

Bens reasons for not going are, it's boring. He has used this excuse before when he refused to go to playschool. I spoke to his teacher yesterday and she said it was not uncommon for children who have never attended playschool to behave like this. Is it my fault, should I have made him go when he was younger against all my instincts?

 

I have sobbed my heart out with Ben this morning and told him I will always love him no matter what, and I don't want to do this to him but I have to.

 

What else can I do I am at the end of my tether and don't want to do this to him any more. But what options do I have. Home ed is not an option, he wont do things with me and he needs to learn he is HFA.

 

Any advice PLEASE!!!!

 

Viper.

[lil_me]

From what you've said he will probably not want to goto any school. So if home ed isn't an option it looks like you are going to just have to stand your ground with him regardless of how heartbreaking it is. This is very hard, but sometimes the only option.

 

It seems when the deputy head said he would collect him so he had no option Ben knew then that the time for messing about was up. You may need to use the threat as such of calling the school again to motivate him sometimes.

 

When I gave in with my son he was much worse, where as now he knows I will stand my ground, although he does still make a fuss and admittedly I cry when I get home sometimes, but I also know he needs to learn and the stimulation of school.

 

I do know how you feel as my son reacts exactly the same, what we do now is work between myself, the school and a support team to figure out what we can use to motivate him, previously he was allowed to take a fish book into school and the teacher would spend a little time with him with that. She said she's even learn't from it.

 

If Ben is HFA and saying its boring it may be that the work is too easy for him, we've had this issue with my son, he now gets reading books for 9 year olds etc and he's 6. it may be worth trying to get out of Ben what is the main problem areas and what he'd like to be done about it.

 

We haven't tackled the issues yet this year as first day back he wanted to quit but luckily we have found out he can start to go swimming this year which he is over the moon with and I think that may be one of the key motivators we use this year.

 

<'> Best of luck sorting this out, I know its not easy and try not to be too hard on yourself.

Edited September 7, 2005 by lil_me

[TylersMum]

Viper

 

Forget about playschool - he didn't go and whether that would have made a difference or not is beside the point. Don't crucify yourself with added extras at the moment, just concentrate on Ben getting used to school <'>

 

Why don't you use a reward system, I used one when I was potty training Tyler, he is also HFA, which worked a treat. You can stop when he is used to school and OK with going there.

 

How about a treat on the way home - maybe going to the park, or whatever he likes doing.

 

Have the school got any ideas about what you might try to help with situation? They must have experienced this before.

 

Keep your chin up, the fact that you are upset about Ben being upset shows that you are a good parent, but we all need a bit of independence and school may well give Ben that.

 

Good luck and keep posting. <'> <'>

[lil_me]

Agree with you even after school motivators can do the trick, maybe a Friday deal where if he's good all week a treat at the end, or whichever suits you and your family. As with most children on the spectrum we find they need to know they are getting something out of it before they will do something.

[Tez]

Viper,

 

I'm so sorry. This must be really difficult for you. I don't know the full circumstances so it's difficult to advise but I have been in this position and quite frankly I took the wrong decisions for my son and would do things very differently if I had my time again. It's all too easy to push children to accept that they've got to go to school and yes they do learn to put on a front and pretend to be coping, but you only have to read the many examples on this site to see the devastating effects it can have later in life. My views are always controversial so feel free to ignore me but I think I would like to know what he was like at school, is he still upset, is he getting anything out of going, how is he affected at home?

 

Does he have a statement? It's all too easy to say he will just have to learn to conform, for most ASD kids this is just not possible. Do you think he should be going to school (is it actually causing him any harm) if not why not look if you can get your LEA to agree education otherwise than at school.

[Viper]

Hubby promises Ben a pound every day if he goes to school but that has no effect. We have also told him if he wont go to school he can't go to Golf on saturday, he loves golf and would hate not going but that still had no effect except to make him scream louder.

 

I don't know where to turn any more.

 

Viper.

[Flora]

Viper, don't feel bad about him not going to playschool. I made my youngest go and when he started primary school I felt so bereft that I still feel guilty to this day (he's 8 now) that he DID go to nursery. So either way you'd probably have guilt to deal with!

 

I was all set to home ed my 11 year old starting now but just at the end of last term we were given the option of allowing him to repeat year 6 (he started this morning not exactly kicking and screaming but in a very depressed state, which is far more peaceful but none the less distressing).

 

Just take one day at a time, which is all any of us can do really. You will likely have more days like this, but then there will be good days. I hope things smooth out for you and your little one.

 

Best wishes and lots of sympathy and support

from Lauren X

[Tez]

Viper,

 

Does your son have any sensory problems? Is he afraid of something at school?

 

You can't "bribe" (don't mean that the way it sounds but I'm brain dead this morning and can't think of a better way to put it) a child who is frightened or in pain. Do you know why Ben is so reluctant to go to school, only when you do can you go about solving the problem.

 

My son was just like this. His teacher was telling me he was fine in school. My friend who taught at the same school told me he wasn't and she'd never seen a child so upset and distressed for so long. I did persist in sending him, he did learn to pretend to cope and now I'm dealing with the consequences. Sorry if I'm coming on abit strong but you just can't treat our kids the same as others, it doesn't work.

[mossgrove]

Viper

 

As you know we are still raw from going through the same issues ourselves. I have been thinking of you.

 

Is the school you are sending Ben to a mainstream school? We never ever managed to get H comfortable with a mainstream school, despite trying for a whole year. We eventially managed to get him a place in an assessment unit (Joint venture with CAMHS and the LEA) for three mornings a week for 6 weeks, and the resulting asessment was good enough to get him a place in Special School despite the mainstream school insisting he had no issues. For the first time this term he got into his taxi this morning wthout fuss or obvious distress and he was more or less his normal self last night.

 

I suspect that school being boring isn't why he doesn't want to go. It will have a lot to do with spearation from you, being overwhelmed by the number of people, unfamiliarity with being told what to do and no knowing what is happening. If the school are not making any special arrangements for his issues then it is not surprising that he is declining to coperate.

 

Having thought about your situation, my honest thoughts are that he is only 4. If he doesn't go to school until after christmas the world won't stop turning on it's axis, nor will he come to any long term harm.

 

It might be better to call a halt for now and look at trying again next term. In the meantime arrangements can be put in place for any necessary accomodations and 1:1 support, asessments and a proper re-integration plan can be prepared, along with visual timetables etc. It may also be the time to ask for asessment with a view to a statement of SEN.

 

H does seem to be settling into school at last, so I cannot say for certain that the current approach will not bear fruit, BUT there are some key differences, H is at a special school not a mainstream one, he is nearly 6 not nearly 5, there are two staff (One teacher, one LSA) to 8 pupils and he has addtional 1:1 support (50%) funded by the LEA to help him settle in this term.

 

You also have to think about how much longer you can carry on doing this without causing youself problems.

 

All this makes me think you should call a halt for now. I may be wrong, but at the end of the day you can only do what you think best.

 

Simon

[Zemanski]

It takes any new child time to settle into school and even some NT kids react this way at first - he needs time to get used to the idea of school, the environment, the people, the routines. Ben is going to take longer than most and his reactions will break your heart but you do need to see if he will settle and this may take some time, give it a few weeks at least.

 

don't wait for the end of the week to reward him - keep rewards as immediate as possible, at 13 I still try to give my son rewards on at least a weekly basis, there's no way he could have focused for a week on something this hard at Ben's age.

 

I know getting him dressed and out the door is a major issue - you could give him tokens or points for each step he completes ending with a small treat - even if it's something like small sweets or raisins or whatever to be eaten on the way to school - 1 for each for each thing he cooperates with.

 

to make going into the school itself easier ask if you can make some special arrangements for him - you could take him into the classroom before anyone else comes in so he doesn't have to face a bewildering playground first thing or arrange to meet his support worker in the foyer to hand him over so that he s taken into class by his adult who is going to stay with him there.

 

he has such a lot to get used to and there is no real reason why he should be expected to do it all at once - when you have him used to the classroom and his significant adults then you can begin to back off and he can perhaps begin to wait in the playground (his LSA might come out to meet him there and stay outside with him for just a few minutes at first or he might start by taking a friend in with him and then move out to the playground gradually with his friend) or learn to line up with the others but this may take months or even years - do it slowly and calmly and with lots of incentives, follow what Ben finds easiest where ever you can.

 

stay strong

 

Zemanski

[Sallya]

Viper,

Im a bit clumsy at wording this sort of thing, so ignore me if you

want to, firstly I wouldn't accept from the teacher that Ben is upset because of not attending nursery, there are very good reasons why he did'nt, and they are becoming evident now. He has just had his dx, and if I remember rightly, he was refused a statutory assessment. I would be asking all of this to be documented,as evidence that Ben is'nt coping, and quite possibly is'nt in the right school placement. And asking for the school to support you with a stat assessment for Ben.

I'm sure you would feel happier about pushing him to go to school, if you knew that they were handling things in the right way. Personally, I don't think much of the school's way of handling things this morning, it's tantamount to bullying. Give it another try, but don't feel you've got to make him, it's only going to make things worse. My son had teachers that did'nt accept his dx, did'nt understand the autistic spectrum disorder, and shouted at him every day, until he was in such a state. I moved him to another school with a fantastic head, and he was placed in a class, where the teacher had experince with children on the spectrum. Although it took a lot of hard work and a long time, he slowly built up his confidence again, and he changed from an anxious frightened little boy into quite a lad. I regret pushing him into going to a school that, with hindsight, made things so much harder for him, when he already had enough to cope with. It took a lot of rebuilding to help him enjoy school, and his new first school was pretty amazing with him. If he had stayed where he was, he would be having a hell of a time now.

I've learnt from that experience, not to go with what every one else thinks, and I visited 4 schools before choosing his middle. It meant picking a school that he only had 3 of his friends going, and an awkward school run, but I'll do it because i already he has settled in, and made new friends. The SENCO is good, and the teacher knows what she is doing.

There was a lot of opposition from school about moving him away from all his friends, as they were going to the middle attached to the first, and they felt he needed to be with children he already knew. But I had a strong gut feeling, that the SENCO there was rubbish, and the school was'nt right for him.

Viper, I would ask for a meeting with the school, and tell them this can't go on. Try and get them on your side that he needs a assessment/statement. Ask school to contact the LEA so that they know what is happening, and go with the feeling inside that you can't make Ben do this.

Hope that does'nt make you feel worse than you already do, I just wish someone had told me to stop making him go to that damn place at the time.

Take care

S

xxx

Edited September 7, 2005 by Sallya

[Genna]

Viper-We had similar problems getting our son into school last year. (He is now 6). His problems were largely rooted in anxiety about school.The clinical psychologist working with him (he was then undergoing assessment) suggested trying the star chart system. I must admit I was very sceptical-M was getting himself into such a state every morning I doubted that he would be open to reason at those times. However, to my surprise it worked like a dream and before very long, the routines were so established we could abandon the star chart. It might be worth a try.

I must say your school does not sound to have much understanding though!

[lil_me]

Every child is so massively different, they all react so differently, my son responds better to a weekly reward and stickers in between, or earning something to build up to it, has done from being about 4, but it is obvious that other children are completly different. So many suggestions, so many good and bad experiences, this must be so confusing for you, I remember you saying how close the two of you are, I really wish you the very best of luck in sorting this out for your sake and Ben's. Getting to the bottom of why he is so bothered about going is going to be the hardest part and no matter how many guesses people make based on their experience, until he tells you, you won't know.

[mossgrove]

Reward schems can help if the child is reluctant to go or would rather be doing something else. Theuy will not help if the child is terrified beyond endurance, and the judgement about what is going on is heart-rendingly difficult.

 

Rewards work far better than a sanctions-based approach though.

 

Simon

[call me jaded]

Viper I threatened to take my son in his pyjamas on his second day. He really tried to hurt me as he was hauled across a thankfully empty playground. It feels horrible to do this to your child. Incredibly stressful too. Luckily it didn't last more than two weeks, but I did wonder if I'd been neglecting his needs in favour of my ASD boy.

 

My only suggestion is that you persist.

[karin]

hi viper can only offer you these <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> and hope everything works out for you everybody is right get the school involed and ask for an assessment for his special needs im going to this year dont let them away with anything he needs to feel happy and secure in his schooling not upset all the time keep smilin luv karin xx keep us posted to the developments good luck

[Guest flutter]

viper you must not beat self up about whether you did right thing at preschool time!!

i suppose you got to try a bit more and see what happens

(( <'> ))

 

it has hit my fan too today,

C xxxx

[Viper]

Hi everyone.

 

Ben came out as usual with a big smile, he said he loves school but isn't going any more. I really don't understand him. The only reason he gave today was that he misses me. What can I do about that? Yesterday I put on lipstick and kissed a piece of paper then wrote "A kiss for my little man, Love you loads from Mummy" I put it in his bag so he can look at it and always have a kiss when he misses me, he said today that he didn't need to look at it when he was at school.

 

We had an appointment today with the pead. After Bens assesment at Guys they said they would refer him to camhs to deal with his seperation issues but there are no local pshycs available, his pead said the same, she hasn't even got one on her team, the money is available but no one has applied for the job.

 

I am still in contact with the pshyc from Guys who rings me weekly (not this week he is away) and we discuss issues that I am having problems with, not ideal but it helps.

 

I wonder if Bens problem with school could be a combination of his oppositional defiance disorder and his seperation anxiety.

 

Thank you all for you excelent help and advice and just for being there, it helps to know you have such wonderful suport at your finger tips.

 

I have a meeting on Friday with his teacher, head , and various other people to discuss how he got on this week. I will be asking what they plan to do to help me deal with all this and they are going to tell me what the plan is for next week.

 

I'll keep you all posted.

[mrs q]

sorry you are having a hard time.....

 

hope you meeting goes well

 

all the best

[mossgrove]

Hi Viper

 

Have things got any bettter?

 

Simon

[lynyona]

hi Viper

 

None of my kids ever went to pre school groups.The two youngest did go to nursery school a term before they started in the infants school.Kieran who is 19 went through a phase where he didnt go to school for 3 weeks and this was when he was 15 no reason he got up to go to school just sat there in his jim jams with me screaming and bawling at him till his transport came for him but no he wasnt going.I rang school and they sent a teacher out to see him after two weeks lol and he promised her he would be at school tomorrow andi knew full well that he ll say anything anyone wants to hear and hence to say he still didnt go.The third week the head and his form teacher came to see him,they went and had a talk with him and they came out and said kierans coming into school with us.Off he went and after that day he never had a day off again.He actually loved school he went to a special school and i think he d have stayed forever if he could have.The thing that riled me most was the teacher that came to see him wrote later in a report that if we had handled the situation better it could have been sorted sooner i was so angry i didnt challenge her about it as he was leaving school anyway.Kieran can also not be cajoled by promises of treats etc he just takes them or leaves them.At one point when i didnt think he was ever going to go back to school i was looking into home ed because if school was making him so unhappy why subject him to it but it righted itself in th end.Hope yours carries on well with school. lynn

[Zemanski]

Com is just starting Y9 after a dreadful Y8.

We've negotiated lots of provision, some of which is finalised.

 

I knew I would have difficulties getting Com into school this week and sure enough he poked and screamed and prodded and stormed.

 

But I know he will do this anyway in the first week, whether things are going to turn out well or not (and last year's experience obviously made it worse this year as his anxiety levels are already higher)

 

I'm just sitting tight and trying not to panic too much yet - I have already seen the senco 4 times and have already demanded changes where things were not right; he had 4 LSAs on his first day when the agreement, in writing, was 3 and the senco sorted that immediately (there is some hope)

 

Yesterday Com noticed the changes for the first time - he had 1-1 PE, followed by 'life skills' which he had never had before and thoroughly enjoyed (he went shopping with his LSA and practiced finding things in a computer shop and comparing prices he also practiced crossing a road) and then in Maths he was told he would be having 2 individual lessons a week from now on (which we haven't been told about yet - his maths was still up in the air last term) and in his usual class he would do work set by his individual teacher so he didn't have to do anything that lesson which pleased him no end!

 

Today Com didn't scream and storm. He's still poking but I can cope with a bit of poking

 

another couple of weeks and we should know if things have changed for the better and whether it is enough to meet Com's needs

 

fingers crossed!!!

 

Zemanski