Maximum numbers in class

[LKS]

As you know son is having few problems particularly in maths. He told me today there are 38 in the class SENCO told me there is nowhere for L.S.A to sit, so she does circuits of the class, poor woman especially in doubles I was wondering if there is a limit you can have in a class in secondary school. I also asked Senco if son could have handouts with homework. She said the teachers really didn't have time, but will try to ensure that an L.S.A. writes any in his book. That sounds o.k. but son was a bit reluctant about this and said it made him look different. Also he doesn't have support in every lesson. Sorry this has gone onto a different subject.

[Kazzen161]

I don't know that there is a rule, but the Twin's secondary school tries to keep the classes below 30 (25 is seen as ideal).

 

How big is the year group and tutor groups? Are the children put in sets or streams for Maths?

 

Karen

[Zemanski]

there is no legal limit to class size except for the KS1 class size pledge - I'm not sure this is actually statutary but it is adhered to as if it is.

 

any other limits are placed by policy not law and therefore are not generally bothered with. I think there are limits to the number of children a school can take overall though - something to do with the number of children per square foot

 

 

I think that should be the other way round - square feet per child

 

Zemanski

[LKS]

180 in the year. The children are set for maths. There has been a bit of a problem apparently as so many children got a level 5 in their sats.

[Kazzen161]

180 - That is about the same as the Twins school. There are 6 classes of 30ish.

They are split into "halves" ie: three classes per half, and then each half is set into at least 3 sets (it maybe 4) for maths, english, science, ICT and french.

 

Even if a child gets a level 5, the schools get their actual %, so the groups can still be split into high level 5 vs low level 5, so no excuse. Does this mean that the lower ability groups only have a few children in?

 

Karen

[phasmid]

KS1 limit is mandatory (except under exceptional circumstances) and is 30 per class. KS2 and above the only limit that applies is based on a formula that is 1.54m squared per pupil or 54 square metres per 30 teaching spaces. Exceptional circumstances can include the LEA directing a school to take a pupil on SEN or medical grounds, if it a family of travellers or in the case of looked after children.

 

Mrs P applies these limits when chairing admission appeals. She says if you are worried about whether or not the classroom itself is being used for above capacity classes you need to ask the school for the list that was given to them the last time the government inspectors (HMI, NOT Ofsted) assessed the schools pupil capicity. If it is being exceeded you have a legitimate right to complain to the the governors.

 

If however you are just talking about the effective teaching and learning in the class there is no limit (save the above) that applies.

[LKS]

thats exactly what I was thinking kazzen. Just seems an awfully large class. And a very big class to have put my son in with no support at first. Regarding my other bit of the post as well. Should teachers be expected to produce handouts for pupils that are shown to need them. Or is the exscuse they haven't got time a reasonable answer. The main reason we all discussed handouts was that we thought it would enable son to be a bit more independent, and that he wouldn't be waiting for his L.S.A. to check he had everything copied down. When a teacher writes homework on a board are they usually reading from notes, and couldn't these be copied and handed out to pupils that need them. What makes me laugh is that this is a specialist mathematics and computing school. All the right noises were made as to how technology could be used to support my son. But I suppose the word that springs out in that sentence is could.

[phasmid]

Absolutley, 100%, and without argument should a pupil who needs a handout be given one. Large print for a pupil with vision problems for example. There can be no excuses at all for not doing this. None. It would be disability discrimination - and illegal not to provide this support where it is needed.

[Kazzen161]

I was told that with the interactive whiteboards it was easy to print off a copy of what is on the board.

 

This has never been done for R though, and like you he doesn't like the LSA to do it. Hence R comes home with very little written in his planner

eg: "Shaksper" -Shakespeare- what? when? who? why?????

 

Luckily his Twin is in the same Maths, Science and ICT classes, so we can use his info for that.

 

Karen

[phasmid]

If it's on an interactive whiteboard you hit print and there it is - done. If this is happening, or rather isn't, you need to ask why not. It's hardly making any extra work for the teacher.

[Zemanski]

the whiteboard computer may not be connected to a printer but even so there is a capture facility so things can be printed later.

 

unfortunately most staff probably don't know that they can actually do this - you could try suggesting it, they shuold be able to ask their ICT coordinator or technician

 

Zemanski

[LKS]

thanks again everyone. Very interesting the bit about being able to print off straight from inter active whiteboard. As school is promoting themselves as specialist maths and computing school I shall ask them if they will do this. The E.P. is always telling me how important it is to wean the children off of being velcroed to their L.S.As I think they should be providing my son with every possible opportunity to help him work independently. Hopefully handouts would provide not only the homework, but examples of what they are expecting. However this doesn't seem to be the case in maths. Latest maths homework was (remember this is the top set) what is soduko and what are your feelings on algebra. Son wrote I have no feelings about algebra. I have no opinion about it one way or the other Think I have to agree with him there!

[UltraMum]

Should teachers be expected to produce handouts for pupils that are shown to need them. Or is the exscuse they haven't got time a reasonable answer. The main reason we all discussed handouts was that we thought it would enable son to be a bit more independent, and that he wouldn't be waiting for his L.S.A. to check he had everything copied down. When a teacher writes homework on a board are they usually reading from notes, and couldn't these be copied and handed out to pupils that need them. .

I was chatting to a friend in Tesco's this morning re this very subject - they have got it written into their son's IEP that the teacher has to write down the homework in their son's homework planner or give him a handout with it on.

 

She says every time there was a problem in the first year she ramg the school and played merry hell - the teachers soon cottoned on and did this for him!

[Flora]

A friend of mine has just qualified as a teacher. Last year when she was doing her teacher training she went to a placement in a school where she spent the whole week showing all the qualified teachers how to use an interactive whiteboard. She only knew because she bothered to teach her self how.

 

So it's highly possible that the teacher doesn't know how to use the equipment.

 

Lauren

[phasmid]

It isn't difficult to do, on my system I have something called 'ScreenPrint32'.

I hit 'shift' and 'print screen' (along the top row of keys 1 to the right of F12) and it lets me print a selected area of the screen, the active screen or the whole page. It's dead easy to use and FREE. Thats how simple it is to print off whats in front of you. We have a visualy impaired pupil at school. It takes seconds to provide him with the resources he needs to access the lesson. Ignorance is no excuse - as Lauren says her friend taught herself how to do it. Whenever I do something like this for school I write it down and show others - they do the same.