Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • Kris

      Depression, Mental Health and Crisis Support   06/04/2017

      Depression, Mental Health and Crisis Support   Depression and other mental health difficulties are common amongst people on the autistic spectrum and their carers.   People who are affected by general mental health difficulties are encouraged to receive and share information, support and advice with other forum members, though it is important to point out that this exchange of information is generally based on personal experience and opinions, and is not a substitute for professional medical help.   There is a list of sources of mental health support here: <a href="http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=18801" target="_blank">Mental Health Resources link</a>   People may experience a more serious crisis with their mental health and need urgent medical assistance and advice. However well intentioned, this is not an area of support that the forum can or should be attempting to offer and we would urge members who are feeling at risk of self-harm or suicide to contact either their own GP/health centre, or if out of hours contact NHS Direct on 0845 4647 or to call emergency services 999.   We want to reassure members that they have our full support in offering and seeking advice and information on general mental health issues. Members asking for information in order to help a person in their care are seeking to empower both themselves and those they represent, and we would naturally welcome any such dialogue on the forum.   However, any posts which are deemed to contain inference of personal intent to self-harm and/or suicide will be removed from the forum and that person will be contacted via the pm system with advice on where to seek appropriate help.   In addition to the post being removed, if a forum member is deemed to indicate an immediate risk to themselves, and are unable to be contacted via the pm system, the moderating team will take steps to ensure that person's safety. This may involve breaking previous confidentiality agreements and/or contacting the emergency services on that person's behalf.   Sometimes posts referring to self-harm do not indicate an immediate risk, but they may contain material which others find inappropriate or distressing. This type of post will also be removed from the public forum at the moderator's/administrator's discretion, considering the forum user base as a whole.   If any member receives a PM indicating an immediate risk and is not in a position (or does not want) to intervene, they should forward the PM to the moderating team, who will deal with the disclosure in accordance with the above guidelines.   We trust all members will appreciate the reasoning behind these guidelines, and our intention to urge any member struggling with suicidal feelings to seek and receive approproiate support from trained and experienced professional resources.   The forum guidelines have been updated to reflect the above.   Regards,   The mod/admin team
Sign in to follow this  
Gordie

Asperger's = genius?

Recommended Posts

Gordie   

I first heard about Michelangelo, as the latest famous person from the past who might have had Asperger's, on the radio yesterday.

 

Here's an article from BBC News' "Magazine" section (indeed it's today's Lead Story in that section!) about what how Asperger's makes us into geniuses (genii? :unsure:) - even though I sure ain't one!! :lol: ...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3766697.stm

 

What I don't get is how it links the condition with creativity, coz I don't have a creative bone in my body - never have done. I'm a logical thinker, not a creative one. Attention to detail, yes ... but not creative detail. So I take Professor Simon Baron-Cohen's standpoint more than I take Professor Michael Fitzgerald's.

 

And on that lighter note, maybe I should watch more of the Simpsons if Lisa is meant to have Asperger's traits! :lol:

 

James

Edited by Gordie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CarolJ   

Hi James

 

Apparently Einstein was an Aspie too, I reckon if you were to research it you would find Aspies throughout the ages that really made a difference.

 

I reckon many people including scientists and professors have strong Aspie traits. You often hear of children who are a genius or child prodigy -but cant tie their shoe laces or make friends.

 

My theory is that there is probably only so much room in the old nuggen for higher intellectual thoughts so perhaps all that knowledge is at the sacrifice of more mundane everyday things like social relationships or shoe laces (anyway it was probably an aspie who invented velcrose shoe ties) LOL :D !

 

I reckon we could put together a list of Aspies through the ages - where would we be without them? :thumbs:

 

Anyway as to TV characters Dr Spock in star trek (logical mind), definite aspie - Basil Fawlty!

 

And I love the Simpsons, well Bart has obvious behavioural problems and well, my daughter loves Lisa Simpson!

 

Homer Simpson is a role model for my other half!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lisa   

Hi,

 

I agree with Carol. I don't think there's room for genius and practical. My son is a member of MENSA and we've been told he's in the top 1% of the population for intelligence yet he can't tie his shoelaces, he's impossibly unorganised and extremely forgetful of "mundane" everyday tasks. He can recite word for word whole episodes of dialogue from his favourite television programmes and films but can't remember what he's supposed to be doing my the time he gets to the top of the stairs!

 

Lisa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gita   

Hi guys

 

I've just noticed there's 2 programmes on tomorrow on BBC1 at 1.45am and 2.45am called 'In search of genius'. This is the middle of THIS NIGHT.

 

These were on a few weeks ago, but I only caught part 1. It was very interesting and one of the points it made was about 'mapping' to help remember information and to aide learning. I remember thinking at the time that this is a visual thing and since ASD people a usually visual learners, this way of learning would be useful.

 

Am going to programme my video, if I can figure out how. Usually hubby does it, but he's now gone off to sleep.

 

Goodnight

Gita

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gordie   

CarolJ: Yeah - that's a good theory! One that I would subscribe to as well, having to live in such a way.

 

I knew a kid at school who was in some of our lessons (usually Science and Maths), even though he was about 4 or 5 years younger than the rest of us, and even though we were a top-set group! He showed incredible intelligence in those classes, and was extremely enthusiastic about them. In fact he was so enthusiastic, it got him a reputation, coz he'd put his hand up to answer virtually every question that the teacher asked, and he was always correct with his answers. He got very excited every time he was right as well. Obviously I knew nothing about ASDs then, but now that I do, looking back, it was very obvious he showed signs of an ASD, probably ADHD. I used to snigger at his funny ways, just coz everyone else in the class did - it was just the done thing, and remember I was always trying to "fit in" myself. It was almost a relief to me that the target of everyone's jokes wasn't me for a change, and that at least I wasn't quite as "weird" as he was. Of course now I wouldn't be laughing - I'd be much more sympathetic, knowing I'm on the same autistic spectrum as him, me being much milder than him though.

 

But it was obvious he lacked social awareness that everyone else takes for granted, but made up for it with amazing intelligence - there was no way my mainstream school should have been teaching him really. It may have good for me, coz it integrated me into regular school life. But as I say, I'm at the much milder end of the autistic spectrum compared to him, and I think he should have got more specialist help than he appeared to get.

 

James

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CarolJ   

James

 

even though we were a top-set group.... maths

 

See, you were in the "top" maths group. I was in the "plasticine" class for maths, still using my fingers :P

 

I am hopeless at logical things, I cannot do simple mental arithmatic - my brain siezes up on me - it hurts :blink: , although I am very intuitive about other people's feelings and am very aware not to upset other people! :crying:

 

You know something, many a time I wished I could ignore that awareness/feeling and "just be myself" - as I was growing up the amount of times I "held back" and did not say anything through fear of upsetting others - at the sacrifice of my own feelings :tearful: - see us NTs have their problems too!

 

Of course now I have ASD kids I have had to "condition" myself "to shut out or ignore that awareness" - so therefore I have conditioned myself to behave more like someone with ASD :thumbs: - just as aspies condition themselves to try to read social cues and signs to "fit in"! - the world has gone mad :P

 

Sigh, perhaps you could give me lessons? Although I dont think I'll bother with maths though (shudder!) :hypno: all those fractions!

 

One thing I have never understood, although John has tried to explain to me gazillions of times, is the "off side" rule in football! My brain just cannot aborb the information - it hurts! :tearful:

 

And you think you have problems .... :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all!

Has anyone ever read Stephen Fry's biography?

His Dad was super-intelligent, but totally clueless when it came to the more mundane, practical side of life. Also quite reclusive.....I think he might have been on the spectrum.

Someone here once said that history without ASD's would be very, very different and I think they were right. I would be chuffed to bits if my boy could achieve what many of our past, great aspies have. Although I'd be just as happy if he decides to become a lollipop man or something.

I think the fact that they become fixated on things like science aids their brilliance in their field. If you spend most of every day studying one thing, then you're bound to become great at it, surely? And, yes I think that a lack of practicality aids this too. Am I speaking tosh, here?

Would'nt be odd, really, seeing as it's me, would it? :P

Esther x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gordie   

CarolJ: So where am I in that big, long list of Aspies then? :lol: Must say the "contemporary" part of that list is pretty interesting - some names there that I really didn't expect to see, like Tony Benn and Michael Palin, among others!

 

And, well, I tend to upset people without trying, when I'm communicating on-line anyway. :( I have no idea when it's gonna happen - it just does, often when I least expect it. I sometimes think people almost twist my words just so that they upset them - like they almost want to find something negative in what I've said. :rolleyes: And they think it doesn't upset me, to realise I've caused them unhappiness for some reason. But it affects me just as much. :tearful: They're friends of mine - why would I want to upset them? *shrug*

 

As for the off-side rule, that's so much easier to explain visually than in just the spoken/written word. It's much easier if you've got pictures, or a Subbuteo set with players and ball you can move around. So I can't really help you there!

 

James

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CarolJ   
I sometimes think people almost twist my words just so that they upset them - like they almost want to find something negative in what I've said.  And they think it doesn't upset me, to realise I've caused them unhappiness for some reason. But it affects me just as much.  They're friends of mine - why would I want to upset them? *shrug*

 

James,

 

I think online its difficult because you cannot see peoples faces or expressions. I myself have upset a couple of people (mostly with my twisted sense of humour). In person I am very sensitive to reading body language, can tell when someone is "not themselves" or when they are bored - its almost like a sixth sense, I walk in a room and I get a feeling about things or intuition.

 

In the past I was always too conscious about reading signals from others and often held back my own thoughts and feelings to accommodate others through fear of upsetting them. Of course now I have learned to "block" it out - especailly when I can feel people staring at my son and tutting when he is screaming and throwing himself about, and generally doing what he does best - the amount of times I have told people "what the **** you staring at - my son happens to be autistic okay", I have really had to develop a hard shell.

 

What I have learned is that we cannot go through life without upsetting someone - unintentionally or intentionally.

 

Dont worry about the offside rule. I am happy to go through life ignorant of this knowledge.

 

Take care

 

PS. Not sure where you are in the "hall of fame" but hey, you are only young - you never know what you may do one day - perhaps write a book?

 

Many famous people werent famous when they were young.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oho, I think I'm with James on this one- I'm always putting my foot in it, it seems to be a personality flaw of mine!!

I'm not too bad at reading people's moods but I have on occasion said the wrong thing.....most embarrassing!!!

And like Carol, I agree that life often teaches us to be a bit more defensive in sticking up for ourselves...and our children!!! Not entirely a bad thing, I feel!! :)

 

As for the offside rule...I thought I had it, then FIFA went and changed it again...I'm back at square one! All disoriented and clueless again!!! :crying:

Typical girlie!!!

Esther x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gordie   

CarolJ:

 

... the amount of times I have told people "what the **** you staring at - my son happens to be autistic okay" ...

The first thing I thought when reading that was "Keep doing it, Carol!! Don't stop!" - maybe it'll sink in eventually!! :pray: Going the other way, becoming more thick-skinned (which I actually can't do, no matter how much I'd like to), it leaves the critics of your child thinking they're right. At least shouting at them made them think about their words, whether they thought you were right to say them or not.

 

pookie170: Speaking of putting my foot in it, I recently exposed a classic Aspie trait - remembering useless, insignificant things, and completely forgetting the more important things in life. The person I regard as my best friend on-line (because she's been consistently supportive of me for 6 years now) showed me photos she'd taken from a wedding party she went to. On some of them were pictures of an old-ish fella, with "dad" as part of the filename on each photo. I asked her if they were pictures of her dad (coz I'd never seen a photo of him before) ... only to be told he was dead. :oops: How could I forget something like that?!

 

And ignore the offside rule changes - they'll only change it all back again before too long, coz even those involved in the game don't get it either! :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gordie, don't worry about it! My friends are always getting embarrassed when they moan about their parents, then realise I'm there, parentless as I am.

It's just one of those things, your friend wouldn't have been offended.

I find the worst thing is meeting an old acquaintance of my parents...they ask "So how is your Mum/Dad?"

Having to tell them they have passed away is awful- but there you go!!

Esther x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Helen   

Gordie's post about his 'best friend on-line' reminded me about an instance that happened to me just over two years ago.

 

Daniel was taking part in the school's Christmas concert in the local church hall. I had taken my seat when a few minutes later, an older gentleman sat next to me. This gentleman was a teacher who used to teach me when I was in primary - I hadn't seen him for a few years. He knew my mum very well as she had been a dinner lady in the school canteen for approximately twenty or so years. Anyway, he was very surprised to see me and explained that he was now a grandfather and that he was seeing the nativity play because his grandson had a small part. His wife by then had also joined us and so we had a brief chat before the play began.

 

The conversation led onto the subject of my mother who had at that time, been deceased for just over 6 years:

 

"Well Helen it's great to see you, you haven't changed at all and how is your mum, I haven't seen her for a while?"

 

"Oh Roger, you don't know.... Mum passed away six years ago".

 

"You must be joking!!!" :o and it was at that point in time that the look of true horror came on his face, for he realised what he'd just said.

 

I have a warped sense of humour ;) - It was then that I had to control an unwanted grin which was trying it's best to creep onto my face. I certainly didn't want to make light of this man's discomfort. I miss my mum terribly and I love her with all my heart, a part of me died when she died, however when he said that last sentence, I could imagine her - wherever she is - rolling in an uncontrolable fit of laughter :P

 

He immediately began to apologise to me when at the same time his wife was looking daggers at him. I tried to reassure him throughout the entire play that he hadn't offended me and eventually I think I pacified him.

 

Another instance was, as my mum had passed away in the month of March, one of my very closest friends sent me a certain type of sympathy card. She gave the card to a mutual friend to give to me as we were meeting for lunch that day. My second friend gave me the card and as I opened the card in front of her, she was horrified by what she saw - this card was a 'left over' Christmas card, which had a picture of a child with Christmas toys. It didn't bother me in the slightest, because the sentiment within the card was beautiful and ever so caring and thoughtful.

 

So you see Gordie, everyone has the odd slip of the tongue, so I'm sure your best on-line friend certainly didn't take offence to anything you had said at that time.

 

Helen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CarolJ   
I find the worst thing is meeting an old acquaintance of my parents...they ask "So how is your Mum/Dad?"

Having to tell them they have passed away is awful- but there you go!!

 

Awwwww, sorry to hear this - Esther hun, youre an orphan!

 

I miss my mum terribly and I love her with all my heart, a part of me died when she died, however when he said that last sentence, I could imagine her - wherever she is - rolling in an uncontrolable fit of laughter

 

And Helen, you too, missing your mum - although its good to smile because I am sure that is what you mum would have wanted.

 

I dont have a mum (since I was 4) so I know how hard it is being without a mum (and dad in Esther's case), especailly when you have ASD children. Someone to turn to for advice and support - it was when my kids were born that I realised how important it is to have a mum around. Many of my friends mums are built in baby sitters and spoil the kids rotten. I feel sorry for my kids (although they dont realise what they are missing out on). Emma once brought home a book about a Grandma - and she was asking questions about her Grandma. I felt really sad for her. Awwwww.

 

Never mind - I just make up for it and spoil them myself!

Edited by CarolJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awwwww, sorry to hear this - Esther hun, youre an orphan!

*snif*...I know!!! :crying:

 

:P S'okay, it comes to us all....though I'm terrified by the fact that I sound more and more like my Mum every day!!!! :blink:

I'm more upset that they never got to be grandparents- I should never have listened to my mother's advice and should've had her first grandchild at 15 instead!! :P

I must admit, I read Helen's post and laughed out loud. When Mum died (I was 17, my sis was 18 and my brother michael ...'Pig' to us....was 14)my sister Marjory and I had to inform many people of her passing. Well, we also had to inform our respective Saturday job employers and some family friends who owned buisnesses in town. So we went from shop to shop, informing away, and also breaking the news to some people we met in the street. The thing that made us laugh...and you're all going to be horrified.......was the looks on people's faces. The human face can be contorted into many different forms of shock/disbelief,etc. We stood for a moment after breaking the news, waiting for the person's jaw to close and for their power of speech to return. I think we'd told so many people that day and were still in shock ourselves that we were slightly hysterical. To my eternal shame, we got out of the shopping centre and clutched on to each other, laughing manically for ages!!! :wub:

I hope Mum wasn't peering down from her cloud too disapprovingly!! I must be a horrible person, for even now, I think of Marjory and I hee-hawing not 6 hours after our mother's death and smile........

Do I sound completely strange now????

I must point out that most of the people we had to tell were not close friends at all, but had to be told as we needed compassionate leave and such. We were quickly sobered by then having to go to our Mum's best pal from school to tell her, which left the three of us bawling our eyes out in the middle of saturday shoppers....

I must admit, I wish my parents were here as I miss them very sorely,very often, but at least I had them for a good while. And I couldn't have asked for better, so I'm far luckier than many in that respect! ;) My sister, good old Auntie Maba, has stepped in to fill the gap for my kids, she's a champion spoiler and second defense commander for my Aspie boy!!

Esther x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CarolJ   
To my eternal shame, we got out of the shopping centre and clutched on to each other, laughing manically for ages!!!�

I hope Mum wasn't peering down from her cloud too disapprovingly!! I must be a horrible person, for even now, I think of Marjory and I hee-hawing not 6 hours after our mother's death and smile........

 

I dont think this is wicked at all! Your mum and dad would have been pleased to see you were still able to laugh. Alot of the time it is hysterical laughter, caused by shock and grief! At least you have got something to smile about when you look back at those sad times.

 

I remembered when my gran died. I cried and cried when I found out. By the time the funeral came around I was all cried out. I was standing with a family friend and we dropped the hymn book, we both bent down and I cracked my head off the wooden pew in front! Needless to say we were in stitches of laughter. The vicar was frowning at me (that made it 10 times worse) he was talking about hell :devil: and damnation :devil: - know where I am going - I'll see you there then :devil::devil: . Hey at least it is warm all year round!

 

Take care

Edited by CarolJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gordie   

:oops: Thanks for those little anecdotes there, folks, but ummm ... :unsure:

 

Sorry - what I didn't make clear in my last post, about when I asked my best friend on-line about whether that picture was her dad when he was in fact dead, was that she had already told me about it before (or I'd read about it somewhere). It might have been years ago now, but something like that I really ought to have remembered. It wouldn't have been so bad if she had never told me before, but she had, so she did actually take offence a bit. :( But it wasn't too bad - we often clash about one thing or another, but because we're both guilty of messing up sometimes, we get over these things quickly too.

 

James

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back to Asperger's as geniuses [which is correct as well as genii] : I think it can likely become damaging to come up with arguable lists of famous people who might have had it. Firstly, a diagnose that covers so many great people can be, to some extent rightly, taken as a joke about the nerdy scientists who theorise so much that have lost any touch with reality. It can jeopardise taking the not only the surmission but the diagnoses into question. [in support of it, Simon Baron-Cohen's idea about autism as a manifestation of the male brain definitely sounds like medievalish musing.] Secondly, if so many geniuses had it [the word "might" slips from consideration ever so easily], then you lose no more than you attain - it's surely manageable to live with it. Ops, pardon me, but you can't have Asperger's, you show no extraordinary ability.

 

James, it seems to me like a somewhat exaggerated reaction from your friend, but I can't be sure w/o better knowing the context.

 

And, well, I tend to upset people without trying, when I'm communicating on-line anyway.  I have no idea when it's gonna happen - it just does, often when I least expect it. I sometimes think people almost twist my words just so that they upset them - like they almost want to find something negative in what I've said.  And they think it doesn't upset me, to realise I've caused them unhappiness for some reason. But it affects me just as much.  They're friends of mine - why would I want to upset them? *shrug*

 

Exactly my experience, - apart from the knowing what they think bit. It'surely a commonplace thing among people in general; the difference if one is different, I think, is that it can escalate significantly more likely.

 

first smilie of mine:

 

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And, well, I tend to upset people without trying, when I'm communicating on-line anyway. :( I have no idea when it's gonna happen - it just does, often when I least expect it. I sometimes think people almost twist my words just so that they upset them - like they almost want to find something negative in what I've said. :rolleyes:

 

James

This medium of communication is pretty flat regardless of whether its person to person in a chat room or posting. The biggest problem seems to be that "we" try to inject as much about our personalities as possible into this method...erm typically in a chat room situation rather than in this forum.

 

In doing so, I suspect that, "we" portray our true feelings as easily as others present fictional aspects about themselves. It isn't always easy to spot flaws in what people say about themselves and the written word is just as deciteful.

 

Consequently it is easy to attach yourself to the ideals of a dream character who in reality is often quite the reverse, unless of course its their own dream of how they wish to be percieved.

 

In my estimation someone who cannot understand why people get upset over comments made during an on line chat session IS someone for whom words have little or no meaning. In other words a FAKER/BILLY LIAR character....hey I'm not shouting so calm down :dance:

 

Personally I used to host a chat room on the American chatnet server and was an op in several other chat rooms there as well...so I've the experience to go with my view.

 

Tim

 

Tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

James-whoops, you DID actually make that clear, pal, I just mis-read your post!! Sorry!!! :wub: Glad your friend got over your wee faux-pas though!

 

Ivan(hope you don't mind me shortening that!!); I see where you're coming from. I think a lot of parents (I am one of them! :) ) like hearing about famous folk who might have had an ASD because we run up against a lot of negativity. Speaking form a past experience, upon the revelation of my son's Asperger's, a former work colleague opined that he would need to be in care for the rest of his life, how could he make a valuable contribution, yadda yadda.... :o

I'm not getting annoyed, far from it. I can see your point very clearly. Funnily enough, my son's DX was swithered over at one point because he has no 'classic' obsession, and is not a fact-fiend. So I have to agree to some extent with this!

(And your thoughts on Baron-Cohen made me smile!Thanks! :P )

 

I must confess to being a little perplexed/confused about the faker/billy liar thing??

Again, I'm not being aggressive or defensive, I can be a bit slow sometimes though (Blame Jester and his Captain Morgan!! :P ) Just needing clarification as I am a wally!! :D And I must agree again, in my own chat room experiences, many people are not exactly honest about themselves. I think the written word can often be more deceitful. Also, in postings and such, the writer may intend to convey sarcasm/irony, but this doesn't always translate well on-line.(This is meant in a general sense!) Also, people are very complex and different. Two people could read the same thing and interpret it totally differently.....

Esther x

Edited by pookie170

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I must confess to being a little perplexed/confused about the faker/billy liar thing??

Again, I'm not being aggressive or defensive, I can be a bit slow sometimes though (Blame Jester and his Captain Morgan!! :P ) Just needing clarification as I am a wally!! :D And I must agree again, in my own chat room experiences, many people are not exactly honest about themselves. I think the written word can often be more deceitful. Also, in postings and such, the writer may intend to convey sarcasm/irony, but this doesn't always translate well on-line.(This is meant in a general sense!) Also, people are very complex and different. Two people could read the same thing and interpret it totally differently.....

Esther x

Well don't be confused all you did was put over the same point of view in a more thoughtful fashion :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

Tim (this time without the echo)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
andrwg   

I am referring to "Asperger's = genius?".

My own article, "Asperger, an outstanding personality", was written before I read the above mentioned one.

 

I was very happy to read the article "Asperger = genius?". My own words are only my own thoughts about having Asperger. It was moving to read rather similar thoughts and expressions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×