OCD

[Brook]

Hi all,

 

Thought this might be of interest to some of you.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4459950.stm

 

Brook

[MelowMeldrew]

I saw this too, aspies have many 'routines' but not all I think have OCD's. It becomes an OCD only when it interferes with day today living, I found once I accepted his need for routine, there wasn't a real issue. I've pointed out to schools that a bit of give and take with some of them,would enhance their interaction with him, it's the refusal to accept an Aspies need to have these routines that provides issue. Obviously IF they have an 'routine' that is causing real problems that's different, but it seems tolerance of routines varies by teacher.

 

My lad e.g. has to have the same cup and plate all the time, that cup HAS to be put in a certain place in the room, when there's a drink in it, he will not drink the last third of it but will want a refill every time, is this OCD ? I didn't actually think it was, because when he trained me (!) to accept what he needs, there was no further issue with it. He always wears school uniform to school as well, and will NOT wear 'casual' even when the school has an 'casual' or party event.

 

What IS an OCD ? surely many of them aren't if people are more accepting of the need for routine ? I wake up in the morning, and get him ready for school every day is that an OCD ! I suppose some would say I am feeding it now ! Routines are part and parcel of coping with life, we all have them.

[mossgrove]

To me a routine becomes becomes OCD when it starts to stop people leading a normal life. To some extent it's a question of degree.

 

For example, it is quite normal to have a fixed morning routine, most of us do.

 

It interferes with day to day life if someone spends two hours rearranging the cupboards every evening making sure that the labels on the packets are facing forward, or has a meltdown if all the ornaments on the mantelpice are not perfectly lined up, or hoovers for three hours after everyone else has gone to bed. This starts to make everyday life difficult and can damage relationships, self-esteem and employent prospects.

 

Often the person with OCD is NOT happy with their routines, and is unhappy about the way their lives are run by something they cannot control, where as a person with Autism may be perfectly happy with their routines and not see it as a problem.(and in general they are not a problem due tothem being accomodated)

 

This does not mean that a person with Autism cannot have OCD, but routines for people with OCD and routines for people with Autism/Autistic traits are not the same thing and shoud not be confused with each other.

 

Simon

[pingu]

Hi All

What an interesting thought. Kieran has got obbsessional behaviour, but how do we know if he has crossed the line with this behaviour, and gone into the OCD "box".

It becomes an OCD only when it interferes with day today living,

 

Kierans interest with his bathplug, takes over every other rational thought that he may have, we can't get him to eat if he's halfway through a "game" while spinning it, likewise we cant get him to bed before 10.30 because of it. Ill give you a quick insight to our evening routine, and as you will see the bath plug and gamecube play a big part of his enjoyment at home, is this just the way he is or is it OCD ?

 

3pm - Go to pick K and and sister up from school

3.30 - Home, K immediatly comes into the room to collect his sonic the hedgehog book, which he left in its normal place before school (and god help you if you moved it during the day). Spends a couple of minutes flicking through it's thinning pages, whilst slapping his leg and taking deep breaths.

4pm - Kieran takes a bathplug from his collection (All the same with white shoelaces tied to them) He spins until Tea time

4.45pm - IF he is finished his 'level/game' he will come to the table and join the family, (Same blue plate, spotted plastic cup, nothing touching each other, and all vegies except broccolli and potaoes raw)

5.30pm - Kieran has a go on the game cube, to play sonic the hedgehog, but insists on playing the same levels over and over again, so usually the other two kids cant get a sniff, we are working on sharing, but usually they cant be bothered to argue and go and do something else.

6.30pm. I make the first warning call, "GAME OFF NOW K"

6.45pm - Second warning call (whislt edging towards the t.v and trying to change the subject to bed)

7pm - Manually remove him from floor, and carry him upstairs. We have to be really careful that all his bathplugs have been removed, because if he see's one we have no chance in getting ready for bed, because even though he likes the routine he will have eyes only for the plug. Bath (which is a story in itself and i wont go there )

8pm - If all's gone to plan, then usually its supper time, where he will have a slice of toast or cereal (Blue plate/ dish).

8.15 - I insist on doing his teeth BEFORE he gets his plug, or else i dont get them done.

8.20pm - BATHPLUG TIME. He now spins this until at least 9pm, goes and annoys the other two, becomes very stimulated, carries on spinning until 10, then we have to try and calm him down enough to think about sleep.

On a good night, which what this example has been we usually get him in bed with his sonic magazine for about 10/10.30pm.

 

But taking in mind that most nights dont work like this, and he will find a plug, and wont get ready wont eat his tea, wants endless snacks, which we refuse, which sends him on meltdown, those nights are more like 11-12pm.

 

Is this OCD or is it just the Aspergers. Now im actually very confused. But thanks for staying with it.

 

I Have irrational thoughts !!!!!

Take care

Shaz

x

[Minxygal]

Often the person with OCD is NOT happy with their routines, and is unhappy about the way their lives are run by something they cannot control, where as a person with Autism may be perfectly happy with their routines and not see it as a problem.(and in general they are not a problem due tothem being accomodated

 

 

 

And I think it would be very easy to confuse the two, but I think there is a big difference between obsession and OCD.

 

 

I have OCD and for me the intrusive thoughts that I have definitely disrupt my day to day routines. I agree with what was said about people with OCD not being happy with their routines. I've never met anyone who got anything but anguish from their OCD and I would do anything to be rid of mine and I would also point out that OCD isn't just about routines and we don't all count or clean as it seems to have been portrayed on the TV. For me, my OCD manifests as a fear of getting ill and I worry about every cough, lump, spot etc to a point where I find it hard to think of anything else. I suppose my routines would be things like taking my temperature and my pulse and that sort of thing.

 

 

For anyone who has OCD theres a really good website and forum at

 

OCD UK forum

[Brook]

Thanks for the link Minxygal

 

I will certainly be looking in on there later.

 

Brook

[smiley]

My little lad is having a rough time at the moment - when he's extreamly stressed he does have some very exteme rituals that prevent him from doing anything.

 

But when he's not too anxious this doesn't happen.

 

Stress induced - definately. But, OCD, i really don't know

[mossgrove]

Minxygal

 

I am sorry if I made OCD seem narrower than it is.

 

A friends partner has OCD and part of that is a phobia about smoking to the point where he will change into a different set of clothes which he keeps in the car before going into a house where someone has smoked that day , and he won't go into the room where someone has smoked that day at all. He will then change back into his other clothes when he reaches the car, there's plenty of other stuff too only some of which related to routines.

 

Shaz

 

I'm not sure how the line is drawn to be honest, but it sounds like it might be worth asking for a professional opinion. Like a lot of issues to do with autism there are 'overlaps' with symtoms of other conditions and it can be hard to untangle it all.

 

Simon

[Minxygal]

I am sorry if I made OCD seem narrower than it is.

 

 

No no, not at all hun. I just thought I'd point out that like autism there are many sides to OCD and not just the stereotypical ones that seem to be portrayed in the media.

 

I think for me my imagination plays a huge part in my OCD. I'm not sure if its the same for everyone else and it seems to be worse when my anxiety levels are raised.

[ceecee]

I would consider that I have ocd as well as mild aspergers.My ocd is really revolving around cleaning.Everything has to be just so and i can't leave the house until I have done my housework to my satisfaction.I hoover numerous times a day and if i cant I stress.

 

I know this is really stupid but I wont buy any food that creates crumbs e.g. stick loaves or crumbly cakes etc.

 

I hate glitter because it makes a mess.

 

I cant bear to go to the park when it is muddy.

 

\I also have a fear of things getting lost or broken.

 

 

I think this is ocd.My husband and 2 kids will be sitting waiting in the car to go and I will find something else to tidy.

 

I've probably made myself sound worst than I actually am.I do my best to overcome these things with the help of my husband and for the sake of a normal family life.

 

I read somewhere that ocd and aspergers can often run hand in hand.Dont know if that's true though.

[Kathryn]

My daughter has OCD tendencies and ASD. Sometimes its hard to distinguish which obsessive behaviour is OCD and what is part of the ASD. I think the OCD behaviours increase when she is anxious. For example, in the past year she has had a habit of shutting every open cupboard door that she sees. Now that there is less uncertainty in her life this behaviour has all but disappeared. Similarly, she was refusing to eat or drink from crockery that had been used by someone else- she is now able to go out for pub lunches.

 

She still has routines - freaks out if a book is removed from her room without her knowledge as she has them in a certain order and checks them all, but I think this is ASD.

 

She was put on Cloripramine, an antidepressant which is supposed to help with severe OCD. I don't know if it did or if the OCD would have lessened anyway as other aspects of her life stabilised. She is now off the drug it as we feel that most of the obsessive behaviour she has now is part of her ASD and here to stay.

Edited November 24, 2005 by Kathryn

[ceecee]

Yes i think your right.It is hard to know which is ocd and which is as.i can fully sympathise with her on the book being removed thing.i think this is just she likes to know where everything is and it's not lost.I am exactly like that.My problem is i have a little three year old son who takes things and hides them so i sometimes get rather stressed!!!I think both as and ocd definately increase the more anxious someone is.My aspergers and ocd both seem to increase when I am tired as well which is frustrating because ocd wears me out anyway!!!

[LizK]

My understanding is that there is an increased risk of OCD in someone with ASD but the obsessions typical of autism are different to obsessions in OCD. I think this is why some people prefer to call obsessions 'special interests' instead to separate it from the obsessions of OCD. In OCD the person usually has insight into their obsession, knows that it is illogical but is compelled to perform it by thoughts or anxieties often causing them a significant degree of distress. In ASD there *may* be a lesser degree of insight and it doesn't always cause distress or anxiety and can sometimes be used to the person's benefit. My son has a door obsession, when he's anxious he does get more fixated on slamming a door as a way of chilling out (so decreases rather than increases his anxiety) but also he gets times when he simply enjoys playing with doors for example he loves trips to the supermarket as he can run through the doors which is great fun (for him) . Both OCD and autistic obsessions can affect someone's life but the way the obsessions are dealt with are different. In OCD you'd aim to treat and get rid of the obsessions whereas in ASD you may well not choose to do this (depending whether you are into behavioural interventions or not I guess ) maybe looking at ways of modifying the external environment rather than the person if the obsession was causing significant impairment or doing nothing at all if the obsession wasn't causing impairment or was beneficial

 

Tony Attwood has a good section in his book explaining the difference

 

Liz x

[Helen]

My OCD began not long after Daniel was born, he's nearly fourteen. I went through the cleaning stage, the washing hands stage, the counting stage and also the checking stage - whilst I've managed to control the first two I still count and check (to a certain degree), to the point of actually saying out loud that I've checked on particular items.

 

When we moved into the house that we're now living in, the previous owners had emulsioned the hall, stairs and landing area an awful peach colour. I decided to emulsion it in a light colour, something like white/Magnolia. I'd only done half the hallway when I made a rash decision to stop emulsioning altogether; I knew that having to put up with seeing the contrast of the two colours throughout the day/seven days a week etc would either make or break me. I didn't want this condition to rule my life, I persevered and my hall remained two-tone for 2 ? years until I was able to 'accept' and be comfortable with seeing two different colours next to each other. I later emulsioned over the lot - in Magnolia. I know a lot of people find this colour boring but for me it was quite refreshing.

 

A few years ago I went through a phase of thinking some really, really dreadful thoughts, all to do with the safety of my family members. I had two thought categories. Category A: I would be overly concerned by some thoughts due to their possible outcomes. Category B: seriously negative thoughts would pop into my head, yet I could detach myself from becoming emotional about them, and this realisation frightened me.

 

I watched a documentary about OCD earlier this year, a few OCD sufferers took part. If I remember rightly a family man who had been interviewed told of his despair of having disturbing and upsetting thoughts regarding the safety of his young daughter. It was explained to him that these type of thoughts are, for some people, part of OCD.

[ceecee]

Helen

 

I know where your coming from and I feel for you.Hope you manage to keep your ocd under control.I know how hard it is

Take care.best Wishes.

 

Liz

 

I agree with your explanation of the differences entirely.Although I personally do not have obsessions or special intersts whichever as part of my aspergers.I have obsessions as part of my ocd things I have to do and i know are totally illogical and I get no satisfaction from doing. e.g. hoovering ten times a day!

 

 

I think that perhaps is a key difference.Obsessions in aspergers are things you enjoy love to do and obsessions in ocd are not necessarily things you get any enjoyment from doing but things you still feel compelled to do.Hope this makes sense.

Edited December 3, 2005 by ceecee