smallworld Report post Posted January 18, 2006 Hi, My son has 1:1 lunchtime support as part of his statement. Does anyone know if lunchtime support staff are considered to be part of the midday supervision team or school staff ? This particular lady is having lots of problems with the dinner ladies constantly sniping about what my son's up to in the playground 'should he be jumping in that puddle ? shouldn't you be stopping him from doing blah, blah,blah...' etc.. She wants to try and get on with the dinner ladies but they constantly interfere and try to tell her how to do her job ( as well as getting her to do other normal dinner lady jobs !!!) Today she has been handed a card by the head dinner lady with a list of behaviour rules for pupils to adhere to at lunchtime, and told **** has to learn all these rules if he wants to stay in mainstream. She's very upset about the situation and I'm scared she'll leave if the situation doesn't improve. I've told her (and school) that I don't think she should be classed as a dinner lady at all, doesn't need that identifying apron, or to do anything other than support my son. She feels stuck cos these women are the only other adults on the playground, and is feeling more and more isolated everyday sorry this got so long, wac Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UltraMum Report post Posted January 18, 2006 Can you talk to the SENCo and try to verify exactly what her role should be? - it seems to vary from school to school in my experience ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jill Report post Posted January 18, 2006 OMG. Why are these dinner "ladies" (altho I would dispute that term) being allowed to bully the support person? And the statement "**** has to learn all these rules if he wants to stay in mainstream" is absolutely unbelievable, who died and made them the boss? I would definitely talk to the Head about this - she needs to speak to the dinner hags and 1) stop the bullying 2) make them realise that their comment about your child following rules is verging on disability discrimination. Does the Head know this is happening? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 18, 2006 Don't think she knows either poor woman seems to have more bosses than necessary ! oops, better go to school bye for now, wac Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phasmid Report post Posted January 18, 2006 If these are statemented hours they are likely to be paid for by the LEA therefore, if the head won't act talk to the LEA inclusion officer/manager etc. The use of the LSA ('learning' support assistant)during the lunch period ought to be set out in the statement. I stress 'learning' above because they ought to be helping him to cope with this long period of un-organised activities paying particular attention to his social skills. What she IS NOT, is a mid-day supervisor. Her role is to support, 1-1 if that is what the statement says, your son. The MDS's may not like it but it is not up to them. The head should have explained this persons exact role to them and the MDS. If it needs to be clarified then the head needs to do this sooner rather than later. As for this: Today she has been handed a card by the head dinner lady with a list of behaviour rules for pupils to adhere to at lunchtime, and told **** has to learn all these rules if he wants to stay in mainstream. Oh really? On whose say so may I ask. Does this MDS make these decisions for the school then? That'd be a first! I'd be bringing that to the heads attention PDQ if I were you and asking where she has got this 'power' from. Bang out of order on the latter, and confussion needs clearing up on the former! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 18, 2006 Am back from school with the latest, Jill, we must have crossed posts, I agree with you, I do think that this is bullying, and the head is now aware of what's going on. 'dinner hags' is the term for this bunch, they are usually in a huddle in the middle of the playground, plotting more backstabbing I'm in a difficult position here cos the 1:1 doesn't want school to know that she's told me what's been going on. I can understand this, so I have to tread carefully...... wac Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 18, 2006 (edited) Hi Phasmid, we found at the annual review in december that all lunchtime support staff are now paid from school budgets in our LEA, but I think it might still be worth talking to the LEA, asking if they can define this role so that everyone is aware that the 1:1 is not a dinner lady in any way. The head is apparently 'disgusted' by the supervisor's comment ( I wonder if she knew she'd been deposed ) I think all this is kicking off again cos the dinner ladies are going to lots of meetings about their role in school Is this to do with giving more power to non-teaching staff ?? God forbid, the dinner ladies here already think they run the school wac fingers crossed that she doesn't pack it in, she's great with my son, and he loves her Edited January 18, 2006 by waccoe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phasmid Report post Posted January 18, 2006 Is this to do with giving more power to non-teaching staff ?? God forbid, the dinner ladies here already think they run the school Careful Wac! I am non teaching staff!!! ...and I was a mid day supervisor (never a dinner lady - I was called er...er...miss ******* for ages! Never did get called Mr *******, bless 'em). As for meeting about their role...it's not my school is it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 18, 2006 Sorry, no offence meant but believe me, these dinner ladies ( I think they're all ladies !) certainly already think they rule the school in their own lunchtime Come to think about it, THEY DO !! there's no staff around (teaching or non-teaching ) Is this normal practice in an infant school ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LKS Report post Posted January 19, 2006 Wac on your behalf. The power has obviously gone to their heads. This sounds as though it has been badly handled from the start. Couldn't the head have introduced her to the other dinner ladies as 'This is *** learning support assistant. She will be working closely with **** during break times. I know what a supportive team you all are and will give your help and assistance if asked. I once had a very nasty episode with a dinner lady who kept putting notes in my dds lunch box suggesting healthy lunch options l Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phasmid Report post Posted January 19, 2006 No offence taken...I know exactly what you're getting at (and it wasn't me). Sometimes MDS tend to thing they are the be all and end all and can be told nothing they don't already know. Been there and earnt the T-shirt, and they're wrong! There is plenty they could learn. Part of the trouble is their role is not always treated importantly enough by the school, there can also be a 'them and us' attitude - comming from both sides of the fence. Until such time as MDS are given proper training and there role is acknowledge as being important to the running of the school this will continue. Recently my head and I have had quite a few discussions regarding lunchtimes and I'm happy to say she has followed up many of my suggestions and 1 in particular. They haven't gone down well with all the MDS but the problems caused at lunchtimes can, and do, have a huge impact on the classroom. I wrote a 10,000 word research project on the impact of breaktime and the impact on classroom behaviour - it is a bit of a hobby horse! So I'll leave it there for now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathryn Report post Posted January 19, 2006 (edited) No offence taken...I know exactly what you're getting at (and it wasn't me). Sometimes MDS tend to thing they are the be all and end all and can be told nothing they don't already know. Been there and earnt the T-shirt, and they're wrong! There is plenty they could learn. Part of the trouble is their role is not always treated importantly enough by the school, there can also be a 'them and us' attitude - comming from both sides of the fence. Until such time as MDS are given proper training and there role is acknowledge as being important to the running of the school this will continue. I agree with you Phasmid. I did this role for a couple of years when my son was at infant school and they were short of people. We certainly weren't treated as part of the team - not even encouraged to go into the staffroom and make ourselves a cup of coffee before or afterwards. Trouble is, for an hour a day, standing on a freezing playground and dealing with blood, vomit, wee and discarded food, (hopefully not all at the same time!) who in their right mind is going to want make a career out of it? It isn't like teaching - as a dinner lady - or man, you get all the stress and few of the rewards. Waccoe, the attitude of this MSA is unbelievable! When I was doing my stint there was an LSA supporting a child with AS, 1 - 1. She was always with him in the playground and didn't do anything apart from look after him, as was her role. We wouldn't have dreamed of telling her what to do as we had our hands full looking after the other 170+ children. We were only too grateful that she was there. Edited January 19, 2006 by Kathryn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 19, 2006 Thankfully this whole situation is now being looked at, hopefully with the outcome that my child's lunchtime support has something in writing setting out her actual role in school. this should have been done when she took on the job but she's the first lunchtime person they've had, but that's no excuse really is it ? apparently this whole episode is being seen as bullying, finally !! wac Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathryn Report post Posted January 19, 2006 Yes, her role should have been clarified right at the beginning, but better late than never I suppose. I hope it's sorted out soon for her sake and ultimately your son's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 20, 2006 So do I, she's very much like me and cries when struggling to contain emotions, we both ended up like she says, if she was a 'hard-faced cow' she wouldn't be the right person for the job ! lots of today about elder son and school, am ringing tomorrow to make appt to see the head that'll be more from me with DOH (dear other half) saying 'get a grip woman !! ' Am off to buy lotto ticket for euromillions, need to purchase a desert island smartish wac P.S. HV said to me last week 'how do you keep smiling ?' that's guaranteed to make me blub !! but I bit my tongue and laughed as usual Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UltraMum Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Cor - never rains but it pours - glad 'young'un' is getting sorted - hope it's not too traumatic getting old'un' sorted next! <'> <'> <'> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 20, 2006 thanks Mother (that makes me ) will be ringing melanie aswell tomorrow to see if she can help with prodding juniors into action re our 10 yr old, they can't see any problems (a common story, I feel ) but today he's been put on report for calling a teacher 'idiot'. The way he tells it he was just 'telling her exactly what he thought of her' !! ?? for telling him to go to the back of the line for 'being at the front' more ??? !!! My sister told him 'that might be your opinion,but next time make sure she can't hear you !' he just doesn't get this he's been asked if he's sorry but told me rather than tell a lie, he just said nothing. Says it all really We'd been put off going for dx by youngest's paed cos she was beginning to think much of his behaviour was down to felling left out cos of demands of junior. I really feel we've left to get on with it all.... I've hijacked my own thread but I have a feeling this is just the start of another saga with not such a speedy outcome wac Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UltraMum Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Cor - there must be huge puddle with all the rain at your house! I've hijacked my own thread but I have a feeling this is just the start of another saga with not such a speedy outcome wac On dear ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 20, 2006 How did you know about the burst radiator ? Oh well, at least I've stopped crying now, back to being Miss Flippant ( need a new avatar for that ) And they're all finally asleep, even DOH ( I like that name for him ) I had been so good about getting some earlyish nights, but tonight I just wanted to sit on my own and think for a bit.... wac Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathryn Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Waccoe, good luck for tomorrow, I hope you sort out that situation too. Roll on weekend eh! I was planning to be a reformed character and go to bed early i.e. before midnight for me, but I haven't been too good at that recently. I love the quiet in the house when everyone has gone to bed. K x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Hah, Have been trying to think of that idiom about 'oh well, sod it ' Got it finally, 'might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb' hence haven't gone to bed yet, once I get past midnight, I tend to think 'what the he**' I'm just trying to delay tomorrow really wac Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UltraMum Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Hope you have a good day today - and a wonderful weekend. <'> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Been at A&E all day until now with my daughter,who turns out just to have a sprained knee I think she's trying to get a full set of x-rays Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phasmid Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Thankfully this whole situation is now being looked at, hopefully with the outcome that my child's lunchtime support has something in writing setting out her actual role in school. this should have been done when she took on the job but she's the first lunchtime person they've had, but that's no excuse really is it ? apparently this whole episode is being seen as bullying, finally !! wac That's good news Wac. Hopefully the outcome will be a good one for all concerned, not least of all your son. Yes, it should have been sorted from the outset in all honesty. The important thing is that it is now being done. Once the role of the lunchtime support is finalised lets hope the MDS back off and let her do what she is ther to do - look out for your son. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UltraMum Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Been at A&E all day until now with my daughter,who turns out just to have a sprained knee I think she's trying to get a full set of x-rays LOL! Must still be raining in your part of Doncaster - or did you get the hailstones this morning? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 20, 2006 A nice calm day (not the weather, but no hail here ) saw a lovely rainbow going to school the home/school worker is going to get in touch, wac Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathryn Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Waccoe, I think you need the weekend! Sorry to hear about your daughter - I hope she gets better soon. K x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 21, 2006 (edited) thanks Kathryn, she's ok, just hobbling about as per usual, no hypermobility unlike her brothers, the doc thinks this knee problem is down to too much sport !! he was flexing her knee outwards slightly, I was sat there thinking 'is that as far as it will go ?' she obviously is 'her father's daughter', and totally inflexible !! this might explain why she's the one who breaks her bones, the boys just bend.... wac Edited January 21, 2006 by waccoe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smallworld Report post Posted January 22, 2006 Got my win in the Euromillions draw, ?7.30 Back to school for them all on Monday then.... wac Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phasmid Report post Posted January 22, 2006 We won last week...why are there no tropical Islands for sale for ?7-20? ###### unreasonable if you ask me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathryn Report post Posted January 22, 2006 We won last week...why are there no tropical Islands for sale for ?7-20? ###### unreasonable if you ask me! There probably are but you would need a magnifying glass to see them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phasmid Report post Posted January 22, 2006 As long as that means spotting them on a map it'd do. If it means in real life...I'll keep saving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
