We've pulled them out of school.....

[sue1957]

Not AS related, long story, but we are in dispute with the school about holidays in term time. For daring to write to the governors and ask them to review the attendance policy just one of the things the school have done to be as awkward as possible is that the HT immediately slapped a ban on us from seeing him without the CoG present, and the CoG is only available at 8.30 in the morning or late on a Friday afternoon. So we can have no contact in school hours, and this has now been in place for 6 months. We have argued with the LA about the ban as, at the time it was placed on us, under the complaints procedure the HT shouldn't have known about our letter to the governors. The CoG is the only one allowed to be present at any meeting, no other governor or member of staff. When our son got bullied before Christmas, as the HT was away when we asked for an appointment to discuss it we were told we had to wait til he came back the following week (and of course we'd been told previously he had to have the CoG present ) We insisted, and spoke to the Deputy, but there is a definate ongoing policy of making sure we only get access to the clerk who is also school secretary, the CoG and the HT.

 

The LA won't give us a reason for the ban, they now say its "legal privelege" or "best practice." In effect this ban is stopping anyone at the school from talking to us about anything. Last week my daughter was kicked in the face by another pupil, and we weren't told. On Friday this week when they were getting ready to come home she was involved in an incident in the cloakroom with the same child, and was pushed and fell and hit her head on a metal coat hook. A staff member looked at her head, but she was just sent out to go home, and no-one came out to explain that she had received a blow to the head, no-one phoned, or emailed or anything, no-one told us so we would keep an eye on her. She came out looking miserable, and on questioning her at first she just said she had a headache. It was only when I questioned her a bit more that the truth came out. She has a lump and a bruise has since come out. She's OK but had I not questioned her, had she come home and gone to sleep, I would have assumed that she was tired and grumpy.

 

Anyway, now she's been injured by the same child twice in a fortnight and put at risk because of the ban, both kids aren't going back until the ban is lifted and the dispute is settled. Doing a rant letter tonight to the CE of the council saying that they won't go back until their health and safety can be assured. From previous experience they are likely to get awkward. Anyone got any information/experience/ or advice about what happens next?

[phasmid]

The school are within their rights to ban anybody they choose from the premises or,as in your own case, limit access to the school/members of staff. They are not required to give their reaons either, although as a matter of courtesy it would be nice to know why. However, the important bit here is what is happening re your daughter. The actions of a parent should not impact on the education of the child (there is a quote to that effect somewhere, just ot sure where - possibly the Governors guide to the law?). Not informing you that she has been injured by another pupil is downright dangerous where head injuries are concerned. However slight they may appear at the time a head injury can have effects that do not manifest themselves for some hours. And, if you're not looking for them you could miss the signs -that could have dire consequences. The fact she had been hurt should have been passed on to you. If the staff are enforcing the no contact rule to this extent I would argue that they are placing your daughter in unnecessary danger - they have a duty of care to fulfill for all pupils and that still includes your daughter. That is the approach to this that I would take, it keeps any personal issues out of the frame and keeps your daughters well being and safety in it. Keep the letter polite and don't use it to have any form of dig at the teachers OR he head, stick to the one theme - the other is, as such, a seperate argument/issue.

 

HTH

[sue1957]

Thanks Phasmid

 

We toned down the rant - we've managed to keep things icily polite up til now, but when it comes to my kids being hurt.....

 

We've done a letter stating the incidents, and that no-one had told us, which as Friday's incident had involved a head injury could have had serious consquences. We perceive that the unexplained ban currently in place (to only see the HT, only with the CoG present, and only outside school hours) does not allow us reasonable access during the school day, and that the ban in place is affecting the school's communication with us, which has proved to have serious implications on our children's health and safety. They will not be returning before our complaint is resolved and the ban lifted, and we are satisfied that measures are in place to protect our daughter from further injury. (As its the LA holding up resolving the complaint, that might hopefully speed things up a bit).

 

One paragraph just gives a very polite, brief overview, (mentioning no names), of the current position under the published complaints procedures (which is being kept from the governing body by the clerk, HT and CoG) and we've copied in various people including the parent governors, a staff governor, and the vice chair.

 

But we are back to icily polite, no digs. Thanks for your help

[phasmid]

No problem. CC'ing the other governors is probably a good idea. Otherwise it would be possible for the CoG to simply state a complaint had been received from a parent and they had dealt with it...thus avoiding the need to explain more. Normally the LEA/LA do not get involved in these situations so any hold-up in resolving this issue is likely to be being caused by thepowers that be within the school. I should have suggested you put in something along the lines of your desire to re-open the lines of communication with the teaching staff resoonsible for your daughters day to day welfare and education....too late now but worth bearing in mind for any future letters.

[sue1957]

No problem. CC'ing the other governors is probably a good idea. Otherwise it would be possible for the CoG to simply state a complaint had been received from a parent and they had dealt with it...thus avoiding the need to explain more. Normally the LEA/LA do not get involved in these situations so any hold-up in resolving this issue is likely to be being caused by thepowers that be within the school. I should have suggested you put in something along the lines of your desire to re-open the lines of communication with the teaching staff resoonsible for your daughters day to day welfare and education....too late now but worth bearing in mind for any future letters.

 

Our original complaint (from last November) is at level 3, with a investigating officer reporting to a county panel. The IO's report to the panel should have been out ages ago, but we've been denied information, even under FOI, so we haven't managed to complete our position statement, although from the last correspondence the report will be issued with a partial position statement. We've written to the clerk, (who is also school secretary) and she just passes letters to the CoG who then writes to us and refuses to answer as we have a complaint in. Nothing gets past the CoG, Clerk and HT. We're making complaints under FOI but that will take time, but I'm sure the whole governing body don't know anything about it. We have had fake minutes, censored minutes, and falsified attendance records. According to the LA there are no health and safety implications for a child being recorded as being on site when they are away on a residential school trip as they were away in a child protected area, but that it was a "mistake" to record our daughter as being on site, the school would "endeavour" to get it right next time. Oh and issuing fake minutes isn't an offence if they subsequently issue the right ones (i.e. get caught ) I'm not sure the taxman would be as lenient if I were to put in a false tax return!! Apart from the fake minutes we have other minutes that are so censored that they look like they belong to a secret society, not a governing body. Apparently even the position of a repair to a wall is subject to the Data Protection Act. (And its the LA who censored them, not the school )

 

The really weird thing has been that throughout the last 6 months the kids have gone in every day, husbands on the PFA, we went in to parents evening and talked to their teachers about the kids education. It was a bit awkward, but manageable. We have not tried to involve them, and we've been careful not to gossip at the school gates about it or to cause any trouble to the teaching staff. But we are banned from the school office, and denied access to any of the other governors, which has led to rumours that my husband's subject to an ASBO Its been like we are switching between parallel universes

 

But hopefully things will now move on.

[sue1957]

I should have suggested you put in something along the lines of your desire to re-open the lines of communication with the teaching staff resoonsible for your daughters day to day welfare and education....too late now but worth bearing in mind for any future letters.

 

Wasn't too late for the phone call we had this morning.... which my husband took and then I took over as his icy calm was starting to desert him Not a word from the LA or the school office yet to see if my daughter is OK, but my son's teacher saying that as he was off and was missing maths, would we like some work for him to do at home

 

I remembered what you'd said and I was very polite and said that as a family we were obviously deeply distressed about the situation at the school, and were still waiting to be contacted by the LA. We hoped that it would not be long before we were able to reopen communication with the teaching staff, and that if the situation hadn't resolved by after half term perhaps we could get in touch again with her then (and our daughter's teacher) to discuss it further. I appreciated her phoning us about not letting our son get behind with his work, but that I felt with half term on Friday, then under the circumstances perhaps the maths papers could wait a few days. But the door is definately open.

 

Do I get a gold star?

[phasmid]

TWO!!

[sue1957]

oh well, the week has gone and not a word from the school or the LA to see if she is alright. Perhaps they are hoping that if they say nothing, that after a couple of weeks of them at home we'll be begging for them to go back

 

Perhaps I'm being cynical, I'm sure that the delay is only because they are passing round the get well soon card, and organising a whip round at the LA for some flowers and chocolates Then we'll get a full apology, and an all expenses paid holiday - authorised of course Sigh (Well I can dream! )

[jomica]

One paragraph just gives a very polite, brief overview, (mentioning no names), of the current position under the published complaints procedures (which is being kept from the governing body by the clerk, HT and CoG) and we've copied in various people including the parent governors, a staff governor, and the vice chair.

 

Hi Sue1957 and Phasmid

 

I'm Chair of Governors at my children's school. One of the things we cannot do, when receiving a complaint, is copy in other governors.

 

If I can explain .....

 

When a parent or carer makes a complaint to the Chair of Governors it usually means that all in-house procedures (ie class teacher, headteacher) have failed to conciliate. The next step is for the CoG to then carry out her own investigation, having come freshly into the circumstances of the complaint. The idea is that you get a fresh pair of eyes on the problem and someone who can usually use a bit of clout to sort out problems in school if they appear to be happening. I have upheld parents' complaints and, through the governing body, have ensured that systems were put in place to ensure the problem didn't arise again.

 

However, there are some occasions when, even after the CoG has investigated, the complainant continues to be dissatisfied. These complaints are then sent to an appeal panel of the governing body.

 

No member of the governing body can sit on an appeal panel if they already have prior knowledge of the complaint.

 

Sorry to be blunt, but by writing to all or most members of the governing body, not one of them can now sit on an appeal panel for you.

 

This means that for your complaint to go further it must be investigated outside school (probably by the Local Education Authority) - which is maybe okay, and maybe what you're looking for - but it gives you one less chance of getting the desired outcome.

 

All schools have complaints policies which should be followed to the letter to ensure that your complaint is dealt with as fairly, and promptly, as possible. Copies of the policy can be obtained usually from the school office, but are often also available on the school or LEA website (ours is an LEA wide policy).

 

Phasmid: If you'd like, I'll do you some information about how school complaints policies work for the "pinned" section, if you think it would be useful for everyone?? PM me if you want me to do it.

 

Best wishes,

[sue1957]

All schools have complaints policies which should be followed to the letter to ensure that your complaint is dealt with as fairly, and promptly, as possible. Copies of the policy can be obtained usually from the school office, but are often also available on the school or LEA website (ours is an LEA wide policy).

 

Come and take over as CoG please Pretty please!

 

The complaints policy here is slightly different, but we followed it to the letter. We wrote to the clerk, asking the governors to review the interpretation of the attendance policy. The clerk was supposed to confidentially convene a panel. Instead the letter was discussed round the school, and read out at a full governors meeting, and the minutes show that a governor (the clerks husband) proposed a vote of confidence in the HT. At the same time the HT slapped a ban on us from seeing him without the CoG present (only at 8.30 in the morning or late on a Friday afternoon.) The CoG wrote and told us that he had instructed the staff not to talk to us about the complaint, which since then the staff have taken to mean they can't talk to us at all. When my son got bullied we were initially refused an appointment for a week because the HT wasn't in.

 

Because only one governor wasn't at the meeting our letter was read out at, they had to get a panel from another school, so they chose the one my daughter starts at in September. We gave this outside panel all the supporting evidence for our case, they found for the school without getting any documentation from them at all. Under the complaints procedure we should have been given the evidence.

 

We've used FOI but the panel have ignored us, the LA have refused to co-operate under the FOI complaints procedure. The LA also refused under FOI to give us the directives that they were supposed to have given the panel, told us to find it ourselves on the Dfes website. Its now gone to the Information Commissioner but will take weeks.

 

The investigating officer for the level 3 panel has been instructed to deal with part of our complaint, and the LA told us to take up anything else separately with the governors. Surprise surprise, the IO's report has been held up.

 

We wrote to the clerk (as per the procedures) who showed it to the CoG again (in breach of the published procedures yet again) who has written back and refused to discuss anything because we have a complaint in, even though it was the LA who told us to write. Nothing has been getting to the other governors. We've been arguing with the LA for months that the contact restrictions constitutes a health and safety risk. So my daughter getting a head injury and us not being told has been the final straw. Parents who dare to write to our governing body asking them to review a policy needn't expect their children to have the same health and safety consideration as other children. My daughter can be assaulted, and get a head injury and we won't be told, unless we give up a legitimate complaint.

 

The fake minutes, the censored minutes, I can cope with, but the falsified attendance records and the banning of parents who write to the governors...... We are in month 7 of the ban, it won't be lifted until the complaint is over. They hold up the report and the stage 3 panel, maintain the ban and we have been left with a choice. We give up a legitimate complaint, or we risk our children being injured and us not being told.

 

Because she's been injured we can pull them out of school, and continue the complaint. But what might have happened?

 

The complaints procedure here is a complete farce. And what's worse, the LA think that sending dodgy minutes isn't an offence, that a school only needs to "endeavour" to get the attendance register accurate, and that they are perfectly entitled to slap any ban they like on parents without explanation, can ignore FOI, crown copyright, anything. Be notified a child has been hurt at school? Someone will contact you "in due course." We're still waiting.

 

With people like that around giving the schools advice, at the moment I'm frightened to send my kids to any school in the county.

[oracle]

I know a lady called Anne McLean who could offer som 'free' expert legal advice and she may just have something that you could use? This stinks of a VERY corupt piece of machinery and you may need to bring in th heavy squad.

 

Let me know if you would like her details?

 

Oraclee

[sue1957]

I know a lady called Anne McLean who could offer som 'free' expert legal advice and she may just have something that you could use? This stinks of a VERY corupt piece of machinery and you may need to bring in th heavy squad.

 

Let me know if you would like her details?

 

Oraclee

 

Yes please Oracle

 

We've got the first 2 of several complaints off under FOI.

We wrote to the Dfes with a copy to the MP before this incident, specifically about the attendance records, and so far have been ignored. (We asked for our kids records to prove to a court if we were prosecuted that they otherwise had 100 per cent attendance records, and found some "mistakes" implying children are on site when they are not).

 

We've reported the head injury incident to the Health and Safety Executive this week, as the LA knew it was a health and safety risk (at county solicitor level under stage 3 (final) of FOI). We've complained that parents are having to use FOI for health and safety concerns, and that even when it reaches level 3 under FOI it is being ignored. Parents who write to a governing body can be subjected to bans, without explanation, that put their kids at risk.

 

Two weeks after the governors panel found that the school had acted in accordance with Dfes and LA guidelines in threatening ALL parents with substantial fines (per child, per parent) if they went on holiday in term time, and that the HT had the right to refuse to consider ANY requests at all..... they then issued a new policy (now published on the county website) that says that holidays can be authorised in exceptional circumstances.... limiting to employment categories of armed forces, parents whose livelihood depends on the tourist industry, etc i.e. if you aren't employed in the right category the answer will be no, and as for the unemployed..... We yesterday made a separate complaint to the equalities department at the council about the information on the website, and that it was being pushed through at least 2 local schools (so will presumably spread throughout the county) as being the law, and governors are rubber stamping the policy because they think it has to be right if it comes from county.

 

We are fast running out of options, and the kids can't go to school next week. We could probably use some heavy guns very shortly. <'>

[oracle]

Hi Sue

 

Anne Mclean works for a firm of Solicitors called Maxwell Gillott. She has been around the world of home ed for many years now giving us all brilliant advice. BUT she has also helped many of my none home ed parents and she really is the business. You can contact her by phone here is a bit about Anne

 

Anne McLean

Anne has provided telephone advice on special needs and other educational issues for organisations such as IPSEA, and Resources for Autism since 1997, having become involved in the work since the birth of two children with special needs. She originally worked as an assistant for people with mental health difficulties, and has also run a specialist advice line for parents who are home educating children with special needs. She also provides full support on the specialist Telephone Advice Line, as well as working within the firm on cases involving home education and related issues.

 

I have also just realised that this firm has another brilliant bod working for them again someone who has been advising the SEN home groups for years her name is Isobel Brookfield

 

Isobel Brookfield

Isobel has worked part time with Elaine since 1996, carrying out case work, and providing telephone advice on education cases. She has also provided advice and tribunal representation for IPSEA (Independent Panel for Special Education Advice), the National Autistic Society, and Resources for Autism, and has two sons with special needs. She has a Post Graduate Diploma in Education Law from University of Buckingham covering all aspects of education law. She is now working for us on a part time basis, providing telephone advice on the advice line.

 

Here is a link to their site where you will find the numbers to contact them. http://www.maxwellgillott.com/index.asp

 

Both Anne and Issy know me so I don't mind if you tell them who gave you their names. I really do hope that they can help because as an ex COG I am shocked at the way you are being treat. We had parents in your situation but never for your reasons. Usually they had hit or threatend a teacher of another parent. Once we had a parent in the school yard who was bullying another child - but that is about a zillion miles away ffrom your situation.

 

Oracle

[jomica]

Oh Sue, this is a complete and utter shambles. How the HT and governors can do anything except hang their heads in shame and accept the consequences, I do not know.

 

It is fair to say that all schools take a pretty dim view of children taking term time holidays but, as far as I know, you are entitled to take up to 10 days with permission of HT before any sanctions (fines at discretion of HT) come into force. However, I fail to see why the HT cannot see you without the CoG present just because you've asked the governors to review that policy. After all, reviewing policies is quite a lot of what governing bodies do. If it were my GB I'd agree to review the policy even if we did not, as a result of reviewing it, make any changes. I would then contact you to explain to you why we'd decided to change it or keep it the same. It certainly wouldn't be grounds for banning all contact with everyone except HT and CoG.

 

Moving on, the school has patently not followed its own complaints procedure - firstly by reading out your complaint (or was it a request at that stage, which would make a difference?) to the full governing body and by not providing you with the evidence outlined in the policy.

 

Were you allowed to attend and address the complaint hearing with the other school's GB? Was your current school represented at it?

 

The Freedom of Information Act specifies what information an individual can request and reasonably be provided (sometimes at a cost). The Data Protection Act also provides for requesting more personal information, like school records. I'm not sure which category attendance records come into - so maybe someone with better knowledge than me could comment on that? But, whatever, there are time limits for responding (or saying why you're not going to respond) and you are right to take your concerns to the Information Commissioner.

 

Moving onto the investigating officer's report, which you still haven't received. Does the complaints policy also state how long you would have to wait for such a report? Are they already outside that limit?

 

I think the school is also discriminating against your children because of the complaint. There should be no good reason to take the kind of action they are taking, especially when it compromises the health and welfare of your children - the head injury being a case in point.

 

Fake/censored minutes? What's going on there? Absolutely unacceptable.

 

Falsified attendance records? A school's attendance records are a legal document which must be correct at any point in time - certainly schools must do more than "endeavour to get it right". Ofsted would take a very dim view of this.

 

So, where to go next?

 

Things are currently completely out of hand. The school isn't following its own procedures/policies, it is paying no regard to FOI, there are H&S problems arising from them discriminating against your child.

 

Legal redress is certainly a good option in these circumstances. You need to talk to someone who can clearly cut through the red tape. You might also want to think about writing to Ofsted and the Local Government Ombudsman about your concerns. Ofsted will be interested in falsified minutes and attendance records. The LGO will be interested in the same, plus the failure of the school and LEA to follow procedures.

 

Overall, it seems to me that the relationship between the school and your family has totally broken down and someone, somewhere needs to conciliate. This doesn't appear to be happening, even to the point of using your daughter's new school as the investigating panel which surely must be the lowest, most low down trick they could play on you.

 

At this moment I'd love to come and be CoG at your school, if only to knock all their heads together.

 

Good luck <'>

[sue1957]

Thanks Oracle will get in touch with them on Monday - will sort out a bullet point list of whats happened so I dont finish up a rambling gibbering wreck which is how I feel today, after the response from the Dfes to the attendance records.

 

Unfortunately we managed to attract a response from someone who couldn't even be ar**d to sign their letter, let alone contact the LA and make some enquiries. The Dfes aren't interested in falsified attendance records it seems.

 

Jomica, we asked for holiday, and were told no, that the head couldn't authorise anyone, under any circumstances, and that if we went that we would be reported to social workers because we needed 11 days (because of flights). Up until that time we were 100 per cent attendance. We didn't ask the governors to authorise our holiday, we asked them to review the school?s interpretation of policy, but it was under the complaints procedure.

 

The minutes saga occurred because when we found out that the governors had discussed it at a meeting, we asked for the minutes. They weren't approved so as a gesture of goodwill we were given the draft, which showed that the letter had been read out, the vote of support made for the head, and that we were being asked to attend a DISCIPLINARY panel. The draft minutes were intended to intimidate us into giving up the complaint. When we later asked for the approved minutes, the HT suddenly didn't seem to understand that minutes approved at a full governors meeting the week before had been authorised by the governors. He needed the CoG?s permission to let us see them, which he hoped to have by the end of the week. My husband was even turned away from the school office when he asked to see them. Even after the LA had told the HT to issue them to us as they were an approved and therefore open document, he insisted on posting them to us, and sent an unsigned document in a half addressed envelope, second class, so that we got them at half term. On this version the item on our complaint was the same as the draft. They for some reason needed another 2 weeks to get a signed set of minutes that we could have, which weren?t quite the same as the unsigned, although the item on our complaint was the same. All three sets look like something someone has cobbled up on a home computer, and are nothing like the standard of other minutes we have since seen prepared by the clerk.

 

The censoring of the minutes occurred after we had complained to the LA about the first dodgy set of minutes. We also asked the school, under FOI, for minutes for a period up to the date of our request. Should have been in a file, easy to copy. For some very obscure reason the school were going to email text of the minutes held on computer (i.e. not the signed minutes available to parents) to the LA for the LA to redact chunks under Data Protection, print them out and then send what was left. That was why the LA couldn't provide them ?promptly.? They did not want the very simple job of photocopying a few sets of minutes supposedly available to parents. Had they done what they wanted, we wouldn?t have been able to compare the standards of the minutes with the dodgy sets we hold. Having asked for the signed, open records available to parents, and therefore entitled to hard copies of paper records, we refused them. By then the school had shut for Easter.

 

The LA then sent an officer into the school to get them, also sending in the person responsible for FOIA. Between them they censored the minutes ? black felt pen job, no mention of why or what part of the FOIA/Data Protection Act they were invoking. When we complained under FOI, the same person involved in censoring the minutes was the one investigating the complaint. Under the FOI complaints procedure being operated she claimed the LA was perfectly entitled to redact what they liked under data protection. They had blacked out large chunks of the committee minutes, and small sections of the full governors minutes. We were told they will not provide us with copies of uncensored minutes and they closed the complaint. (I?m sure the wall that was repaired will be happy to know that the position of the repair has been kept secret from parents under the Data Protection Act?)

 

We had asked for copies of minutes for the period including that when the dodgy minutes would have been approved. This last meeting was inadvertently ?missed out? by the LA, and the wording of our request altered to exclude this last date, apparently an unintentional mistake. We offered to go in and get them at 11 a.m. the following day from the school office. Surprise surprise we had a set hand delivered at 10.30 a.m. to our home 2 miles away, in an envelope we believe written by the CoG. Again the minutes don?t look as if the clerk has done them.

 

Hence the clerk and CoG not wanting us to have access to any other governor or member of staff? Hence the CoG instructing staff not to talk to us about the complaint.. Hence the ban in school hours ..? Hence the LA supporting the ban, even ? under FOI ? claiming first that?s it?s the result of ?verbal advice,? then ?legal privilege? and finally ?best practice.? And, as the minutes are part of the investigating officer?s enquiries, probably why the report isn?t ever likely to be issued.

 

As for the new attendance policy?.. the school issued it to parents saying it had been approved by the governors at their meeting the previous week. The LA didn?t censor minutes that show that the HT told the committee that it was a county policy being issued. By the full governors meeting the governors hadn?t even seen it, it hadn?t finished being written, so it certainly wasn?t approved. Parents were misled.

 

So an attendance policy heavily influenced by the educational welfare officers who have their own agenda to reduce absences, that breaches the legislation, and crown copyright, one that practices blatant discrimination on the grounds of employment status, income and goodness knows what else has been promoted to parents as a lawful document, checked, approved by a governing body on parents behalf. Having written to the clerk about this, she tells the CoG who says that he won?t be convening a governors panel because we already have a complaint in. (Not influenced of course by the fact that we might mention dodgy minutes to the governors on a new panel).

 

And because its County trying to push the attendance policy through the schools, and have published the same c*ap on their website, they are just not answering anything now. And if one county starts getting away with this sort of attendance policy, it is likely to spread to others.

 

We can give up so that as parents we at least have SOME health and safety rights, and just hope that the school can ?endeavour? to get the attendance register right sometimes (but if even the Dfes don?t give a monkeys why bother?) and pray someone will tell us if our kids get hurt. At least they would get an education of some sort. Not much of a choice.

 

But my biggest fear is that it?s going to take a big health and safety crisis before anyone takes it seriously. So we?ve got to fight on and keep the kids out of school and uneducated in the meantime. Presumably at some point we will be fined for failing to send our children to school, we?ll refuse to pay and it will go to open court.

 

What a system.

 

Sorry, rant over. But after the letter from the Dfes this morning, I?m having a very bad day.

 

But thanks Oracle, I?ll get in touch with who you suggest. Maybe one letter from someone who seriously knows their stuff, putting a rocket up ?em ??

 

And thanks Jomica and Phasmid for the advice and support. <'>

 

On the bright side, the only way is UP!!

[jomica]

Sue - I've dug out some information from the latest "A Guide to the Law for School Governors" which might help to explain some of the background to the minutes:

 

Chapter 3, Sections 62-63:

 

62 The clerk must ensure that minutes are drawn up, approved by the governing body and are signed by the chair at the next meeting.

 

63 Regulation 13 of the Procedures Regulations provide that the governing body must make available for inspection to any interested person, a copy of the agenda, signed minutes and reports or papers considered at the meeting as soon as is reasonably practical. Information relating to a named person or any other matter that the governing body considers confidential does not have to be made available for inspection. From January 2005, the governing body is obliged to make this information available upon request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, unless any other of the specific exemptions in the Act apply. Therefore the governing body will only be able to withholdinformation that constitutes personal data or confidential information, in each case, within the meaning of the Freedom of Information Act (see Guidance for Schools on FOI, available on www.governornet.co.uk).

 

 

More of a hindrance than a help, but it does show where they've been coming from re FOI/Minutes, probably.

 

Re: the home computer bit - the clerk usually minutes full governing body meetings, but someone else (usually another governor) minutes other committee meetings. It does mean that the standards of minute taking differ, but there are no rules to say that the clerk has to minute every meeting, just that minutes have to be taken of all formal meetings, whether full governing body or committees.

 

Still a shambles though. <'>

Edited June 2, 2006 by jomica

[sue1957]

It does mean that the standards of minute taking differ, but there are no rules to say that the clerk has to minute every meeting, just that minutes have to be taken of all formal meetings, whether full governing body or committees.

 

Still a shambles though. <'>

 

The committee minutes I expect to be done by anyone, but to be honest they are so heavily censored that you'd think it was a secret society, not a governing body. But as they'd been presented at full governing body meetings, hard copies existed as part of the governors records.

 

But the dodgy minutes are for full governors meetings, which were supposedly clerked by the clerk to the governors.

 

Just been talking to hubby about it all. The Dfes took weeks to come back with a load of rubbish. The H&S Exec, the MP and the Information Commissioners Office might also take weeks to respond. If we go to the Ombudsman it will also take weeks. Even if the LA slaps a fine on us for not letting the kids go back to school, which we won't pay, it could be months before it gets to court.

 

Although we can continue with all that, and will, I think we will have a word with the people Oracle has mentioned. If after talking to them they think they can do something, FIL has offered to contribute to the legal expenses, and we'll just have to find the rest.

 

But the Ombudsman, and some specialist legal advice - definately time to get in the big guns.

 

I'm starting to feel a bit more positive. Thanks