Bionetics

[Lynden]

Has anyone heard of this company? We were discussing urine and hair analysis at Early Bird today and I'm definitely having Logan tested for gluten/caesin intolerances but one other lady was having her son tessted for heavy metals too and I wasn't sure whether I should or not.

 

http://www.bionetics.co.uk/bionetics/Autism.htm

[weelewy]

hiya, where are you getting this test done, i was looking for a test for heavy metal, just to rule out the possability but cant find one, i found a site, it was american, and it said that depending on the way a vaccine

was given that there ma be a higher dose of mercury than there should be, dont quote what i say, you have to look the site, if you google autism / mercury it should come up, but could you let me know please thanx

luv kirsty

[justamom]

I might get this done for my son!!! Thanks

[jb1964]

Thanks Lynden,

 

Might give this a go for my daughter - anyone used it before?

 

Jb

[Lucas]

Gut issues and food intolerances are not actually more common in Autistic people, but they get associated for quite a number of reasons. Don't buy into any 'Mercury-causes-Autism' hype either; they started with this assumption and then tried(tried!) to fill in the blanks to produce the evidence. The Mercury hypothesis relies on the assumption that there is an 'Autism epidemic', that the number of Autistic people itself has increased disproportionately. For this to work you have to conveniently ignore the fact that most Autistics are adults and that their numbers corrospond with the average life-expectency of a male.

 

We also don't have any Mercury in our vaccines in the UK, yet our Autism incidence is slightly higher than that of the US where this Thimerosal panic started.

[Lynden]

Gut issues and food intolerances are not actually more common in Autistic people, but they get associated for quite a number of reasons. Don't buy into any 'Mercury-causes-Autism' hype either; they started with this assumption and then tried(tried!) to fill in the blanks to produce the evidence. The Mercury hypothesis relies on the assumption that there is an 'Autism epidemic', that the number of Autistic people itself has increased disproportionately. For this to work you have to conveniently ignore the fact that most Autistics are adults and that their numbers corrospond with the average life-expectency of a male.

 

We also don't have any Mercury in our vaccines in the UK, yet our Autism incidence is slightly higher than that of the US where this Thimerosal panic started.

 

Hi Lucas

 

I wasn't thinking along the lines of mercury causing autism as Logans is almost certainly genetic (hubby we're sure has aspergers). The cf/gf thing I want to get him tested for because he definitely has gut and bowel problems and if it may help, we'll give it a go.

 

I'm not sure about the mercury testing to be honest because I dont like the idea of chelation etc so not sure what I would do if it came back positive.

 

Lynne x

[Lucas]

When I think of Chelation, I always have this image of poo-ing silver bars.

 

A suprising number of people do get bowel problems at some point in their life and not just old age. I think inflated reports of it among Autistic children are due to us being more sensory and feeling the effects of it more readily.

[sue1957]

I can't make up my mind about hair analysis.....

 

If you can test for heavy metals in the hair, then is the hair the body's own chelation kit? i.e. is it a function of the hair growing to bring out heavy metals? If there is no heavy metals in the hair does that mean that there is no heavy metals to bring out or that the chelation function of the hair isn't working?

 

But I don't think the machine on this website is testing for the physical content of heavy metals in the hair - its talk about energy signatures and the funny looking machine with the little beaker in the top, it doesn't look very conventional to me. If you go to the "Your hair test" at the bottom of the screen and page 10 of the process...... Not saying there's anything wrong with it being unconventional, but if its not conventional I think it ought to be a bit clearer, but maybe I'm missing something obvious. As a analysis for heavy metals in my children, I'd be asking a few more questions.

[call me jaded]

This is the best source of info on hair testing:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html

 

We've done it/do it. School are reporting 'amazing' progress. They don't know we're doing it.

[melly]

A freind of mine used the biotecnics company on her son, she initially went to get some dietary advice and came out having signed up for the whole lot!

 

The hair analysis has been problematic for them, the first showed such high rates of lead that it would only be possible if he was eating the lead pipes daily! They did think that the result was an anomoly (sp?) so took the information to the consultant pead they see (privately) who said whilst he didn't believe the results could ever be that high in a child without showing signs of severe lead poisoning, he has taken blood samples to check the levels of lead and some of the other heavy metals. I'm seeing her at the wkend to find out the next episode in the saga!

 

I am not against any kind of alternative, but this one was a very expensive excersise for my freind.

Have you thought about using the uni of sunderland for the ketones (sp?) testing for gluten and caisin? Its only about ?60 for that test. Would your pead or gp be able to arrange further testing for metals if you requested?

[Lucas]

And just to repeat that there is no science showing a link between heavy metals and Autism, nor the 'water into wine' ability of Chelation to reverse damage that can be done by heavy metals.

 

Anyone who does have an ounce of critical thought can see the paradox in testing for something like Mercury poisoning through measuring excretion. The claim is that Autistic children(and it's been made about adults too) can't excrete heavy metals like Mercury from the body effectively. To test for this they give the subject a chelating agent which gives an exaggerated reading(they do this under the premise that the subject if Autistic really can't be excreting metal), they then decide it must be Mercury poisoning if the following two scenarios happen:

 

1. Mercury excreted is high.

 

2. Mercury excreted is low.

 

They can not give a definition of 'ideal' in the amount excreted because there is no ideal amount. If the Mercury excreted is high, they say this means there is a lot in the body causing harm and it needs chelation. If it is low they say the person has severe problems excreting.

 

There is no scenario in which they will conclude that a person with an Autism diagnosis does not have Mercury poisoning, even if the readings from an Autistic person corrospond with that of a Neurotypical person with no health problems. They of course 'know' by definition that Autism IS Mercury poisoning so allowing for the possibility that it isn't is 'reckless' and you must be a 'pharma shill' part of a grand pro-vaccine conspiracy.

[call me jaded]

Just to clarify on mercury in vaccines in 2004 it was still being used:

 

Thiomersal (also known as thimerosal) is present in the following childhood vaccines: the combined diptheria-tetanus-wholecell pertussis and Haemophilus Influenzae vaccine for

 

5 May 2004 : Column 1627W

 

primary immunisation and the combined diptheria/tetanus vaccine used for boosting teenagers. Details of the vaccines used in the childhood immunisation programme can be found in the national health service Factsheet, Thiomersal and vaccines.

 

Other vaccines that contain thiomersal are: Anthrax vaccine, some hepatitis A vaccines, some hepatitis B vaccines, some influenza vaccines and the diptheria-tetanus-wholecell pertussis vaccine.

 

The use of thiomersal in vaccines has not been discontinued in the United Kingdom

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/c...xt/40505w39.htm

 

But by 30 January 06 they had been removed:

 

None of the vaccines that are currently part of the recommended childhood immunisation programme contain mercury.

 

No link - it's longer than the quote!

[Lucas]

The 'Thimerosal' vaccines listed so far as I'm aware do not actually contained Thimerosal, but Thimerosal was used at some point in batch production. This means there can be trace amounts in some batches but falls FAR short of the claim that the Mercury/Autism problem is caused by too many vaccines with Mercury in too short a space of time is overloading immune systems.

 

The problem I find most worrying with the Mercury-causes-Autism lobby is that unlike scientists who abandon a hypothesis once it has hit a fatal problem in it's validity, they do not and instead modify it to suit the 'new reality' suggested by circumstance.

[call me jaded]

Richard Lathe's 'Autism, Brain, and Environment' gives an excellent and readable summary of the extremely complex science.

[sue1957]

Richard Lathe's 'Autism, Brain, and Environment' gives an excellent and readable summary of the extremely complex science.

 

Jaded, is it mainly about mercury? Or more general?

[Lucas]

An excellent and readable summary of Lathe's book would conclude that it is irresponsible myth-spreading and is yet another example of some people having to rely on an assumption that Autism has actually increased for their crackpot ideas to make sense. Mr Lathe is not the one that has to bare the brunt of his parents efforts to 'help' him.

[Lynden]

A freind of mine used the biotecnics company on her son, she initially went to get some dietary advice and came out having signed up for the whole lot!

 

The hair analysis has been problematic for them, the first showed such high rates of lead that it would only be possible if he was eating the lead pipes daily! They did think that the result was an anomoly (sp?) so took the information to the consultant pead they see (privately) who said whilst he didn't believe the results could ever be that high in a child without showing signs of severe lead poisoning, he has taken blood samples to check the levels of lead and some of the other heavy metals. I'm seeing her at the wkend to find out the next episode in the saga!

 

I am not against any kind of alternative, but this one was a very expensive excersise for my freind.

Have you thought about using the uni of sunderland for the ketones (sp?) testing for gluten and caisin? Its only about ?60 for that test. Would your pead or gp be able to arrange further testing for metals if you requested?

 

Hi Melly

 

I've been on the sunderland website but can't find where to order the test? I did email them with no joy but would definitely like to have the the gluten/caesin test done. I think on further reading I may give that bionetics a miss.

 

Lynne

[call me jaded]

Jaded, is it mainly about mercury? Or more general?

 

No, more general.

[call me jaded]

Here's a review.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8123-2160195,00.html

[Lucas]

Please compare the 'review' of that book to reviews on The Da Vinci Code or Freaks, Geeks and Asperger Syndrome. It wasn't a review but a sales pitch, saying nothing at all about the book but promoting unfounded claims about Autism not balanced with an opposing view.

 

Not once is anything challenged.

[pim]

HI

 

I did the testing at Sunderland and Ds was positive to both gluten and casein. But I never did the diet seriously. I could never find a good alternative to milk and soya sent ds hyper. I also became overwhelmed by the list of things to do and the conflicting evidence I was reading. Should I use enzymes or probiotics? There seemed so many things to try and I didn't want to treat ds like a guinea pig. It did feel that way to find out what sent him hyper, was it because I changed his fish oil or something he did at nursery. In the end I thought I don't know. He could just be having a bad day.

 

But something that did make me feel critical about the diet was when I was told by one of the technicians that 50 % or the rest of the family were to do the test they would also test positive. So I could test positive or DD could. I do know that DS is more sensitive to food than either DD or DD2. But I was thrown by the fact that they could test positive. So how do they test intolerances. Could DS be more intolerant then me and if I tested positive does it mean I'm slightly intolerant but not enough to have to cut it out of my diet. There were too many unanswered questions.

 

I think the diet works for many people and I can understand if it has why they would recommend it so highly to other people if it has made a difference to their child. My MIL is a stomach specialist and with a family of doctors and scientists. Her take was that no-one really knows and the way the stomach works is so complicated with one little thing affecting the other. There could be inbalances but it's difficult to know why as every-one is so different.

 

pim

Edited May 24, 2006 by pim