One of those late night wonderings!

[jlp]

How accurately do these reflect a childs ability? And what happens if the child refuses to co-operate with the test?

 

Not that I'm expecting ds to be assessed by an Ed Psych in the near future, but as I say I was just wondering.

 

Is there usually a gap between these test results and other results from in school assessments, SATS etc?

 

Thank you if anyone can satisfy my idle curiosity!

[Tez]

It is generally felt that the psychometric testing done by EPs does not accurately reflect the abilities of a person with ASDs. This is for many reasons, anxiety, sensory pressures can have an effect on the results, different ways of viewing things from NT people mean that answers are often not what expected but technically correct if the reasoning is delved into, and an inability to respond to the person carrying out the tests. I've seen it argued that the only way that these tests should be used is if they have first been standardised on an ASD population, which of course they are not.

 

I believe it was Temple Grandin who was tested with these tests when younger and whose parent's were told that her IQ was so low that she was virtually unteachable, her results placed her in the bottom 1% intellectually. Well, she now has a Phd so I think that illustrates how effective they are for people on the spectrum.

 

Speaking personally, these tests caused us a problem when A was assessed for his statement. They showed a child slightly above average when in fact he's been recognised as gifted. The EP and the school both told the LEA in writing that the tests were not a fair reflection of his abilities because he was selectively mute, and not functioning at the time and the tests were all carried out in a three hour period with no breaks that was too much for A to cope with. The LEA have chosen to use the results not to provide work appropriate to his abilities. I know Zemanski had a similar problem when she asked for Com's to be retested when a set of tests failed to show his giftedness that all previous tests had shown.

[Zemanski]

Com came out as highly gifted when the full tests were done in Y4 by a clinical psychologist at his office (ie out of school)

 

then in Y9 he did the short tests and came out average - this was in school, with the Ed Psych who knew nothing about his earlier tests. We queried the results and he recalculated the scores to give an above average result - don't know how, certainly don't trust it!

 

since then Coran has been tested at home and came out way above average again.

 

I think they are only really reliable when done in a relatively stress free environment and the full tests are used, otherwise they only really show whether or not there may be an additional learning difficulty or an uneven profile, both of which are important to know about. For example Dot's full test last year shows her functioning as well above aerage across all areas except things relating to the written word - her phonemic awareness is in the 12th centile while her verbal IQ is in the 99th showing a clear learning difficulty. Dot is severely dyslexic.

 

Zemanski

[lisa]

We've had a few problems with these tests too. When my daughter was first tested, she was in a place she didn't know, the tests were done all in one go as part of a 7 hour assessment and she scored slightly above average. We were a bit suprised as we'd always thought she was really bright, and very similar to our son who'd scored on the 99th centile. On this occasion the lady who did the test did say that L took a very passive approach to the testing.

 

Almost a year later she was tested again as part of reseach into ASD and epilepsy. On this occasion she scored on the 88th centile. The LEA were trying to discount the 88th centile result because of "practice effects" as there was only 9 months between tests. Obviously they didn't want to acknowledge this result as it would mean she's significantly underachieving. But then an EP did some further testing at home, some of the subtests that she hadn't done before and on these tests she scored around the 87th centile.

 

Lisa

[BusyLizzie100]

Yup, we've had similar probs with DS1. A private EP showed he is Gifted, on the 99th centile for verbal IQ skills, but spatial skills on the 19th centile. At school he is 'doing well'. He should be flippin' head teacher by now!!!!!!!

 

The only 'test' the LEA EP has undertaken so far is to ask him how he rates himself at different subjects and to rate school. This is a child who just does not understand this alien idea of 'rating himself', so he just gives the answers he thinks people want. For example, school is 9 out of 10 and his handwriting is 7 out of 10, although he can't actually read it himself.

 

These people have such potential power, but why are they so poorly trained to use it?/

[Guest hallyscomet]

Hi, Just noticed this:

 

[b]QUOTE:  Tez' date='Jul 7 2006, 07:54 AM' post='107244'][/b]
It is generally felt that the psychometric testing done by EPs does not accurately reflect the abilities of a person with ASDs. This is for many reasons, anxiety, sensory pressures can have an effect on the results, different ways of viewing things from NT people mean that answers are often not what expected but technically correct if the reasoning is delved into, and an inability to respond to the person carrying out the tests. I've seen it argued that the only way that these tests should be used is if they have first been standardised on an ASD population, which of course they are not. 

I believe it was Temple Grandin who was tested with these tests when younger and whose parent's were told that her IQ was so low that she was virtually unteachable, her results placed her in the bottom 1% intellectually. Well, she now has a Phd so I think that illustrates how effective they are for people on the spectrum.

 

Just like to add:-

 

My sons Paediatrician feels that there are so many Educational Psychologists out there that are not properly qualified and don't know enough about ASD, all they end up doing is confusing the parents.

 

He maintains that if you had this test with someone recognised (referred/ preferred) by the Paediatrician or and EP who is employed by or referred by the Autism Association, only then would he consider looking at the results. Only then would they be accurate, then go over them with Paediatrician as well as this EP.

 

H.

Edited July 9, 2006 by hallyscomet

[jen]

my child Ed Psy said he was not prepared to carry our an IQ test in school because the results would not accurately reflect his capability. (He suffers from a lot of sensory problems).

 

He said it would be more in the childs interest to use the scores he had achieved in tests and the teachers views on my sons ability.

 

 

Jen

[Tez]

Just to add to Jen's post. The EP who assesed A for his statement refused to carry out any psychometric testing, saying that they would not accurately reflect A's abilities. We were told when A was dx'd that from the tests that the psychologists carried out they placed A in the genius level with an IQ of around 158 and he has also sat Mensa tests which placed his IQ around the same level. This was noted in his dx report. The EP accepted this, he did however set A various tasks which he'd discussed with me previously to ensure that he would enjoy doing them and that they wouldn't make him anxious. He then sat speaking to us whilst at the same time observing A and he assured me that he could tell far more in this manner.

 

The EP who did the application for exam dispensations halted the testing because she said A was too anxious and noted that she had not tested to limit but noted that from observation she knew that A was excellent in a, b, and c.

 

The SENCO who did everything possible to thwart my attempts to get A the help he needed, pushed him through every test she could think of in her office whilst he was signed off school sick. The results were completely topsy turvey and showed him as a slightly above average child. His weakest areas were shown as his strongest because these were the tests she performed first when he was least tired. I really regret agreeing to take A into school for these tests because they achieved nothing and have caused problems, but the SENCO told me that without the tests the LEA would not agree to statutory assessment, something which I now know from the EP was not true. Unfortunately, LEA's will use whatever information best suits their purpose and despite the hospital reports, despite both EPs and the Deputy Head writing to the LEA asking them to disregard the SENCO's test results and despite A being on the gifted register for Maths and Science, the results they keep quoting at me are the SENCO's results.

 

I have been assured by the EP that increasingly with ASD children they are relying more on observation and setting tasks that the children enjoy doing than formal testing. The results are considered more accurate and in our LEA are all that are necessary for statutory assessment. I hope someone else can learn from my mistake.

[Zemanski]

a senco is very unlikely to be qualified to deliver such tests, she should not have done them at all and the LEA should not be having regard to them, particularly as he has had other tests done by a professional psychologist

 

Z

[Canopus]

Do people with AS do better or worse at aptitude tests than NT people? I had a job interview last week that involved aptitude tests.

[Guest hallyscomet]

Just adding

 

My sons Paediatrician and EP said it isnt good to have these test twice in the same year as this can affect their accuracy also.

 

H.

[OPooh]

I think that they don't just look at test results anyway but view the whole picture.

[phasmid]

The tests should only make up a part of the whole process. They cannot be used in isolation to general observations.

[madme]

Hi im not sure about the validity of these tests. My son was tested pre ritalin and came out as below average which the psych said didnt reflect his achievement levels. He was tested sybsequently on ritalin and scored at well above average. I know a child who was tested and found to have a very low IQ and therefore LEA were arguing that he should be sent to an MLD or SLD school. When retested he was found to be average and has just achieved level 4 in sats.

[Anneuk]

When my dd was tested by ed psych she came out at lower average, whereas in reality she is in the top of the upper range in most subjects.

 

My dd wouldn't cooperate as she couldn't really understand the process and as she has massive self expectations, unless she knows exactly what she is doing, she won't do it as then she can't fail.

 

Personally our ed psych is a waste of time and has no experience with AS children, it's very frustrating when their opinions can carry so much weight.

 

Anne