And so the battle begins.............

[Jadensmum]

Hi everyone,

 

Jaden is 3 (on Wednesday!!) and is due to start a mainstream nursery in January. He is diagnosed with ASD (moderate - severe) Epilepsy and severe developmental delay. He also has no speech and very little understanding of words although he is doing well with PECS.

 

Anyway, we visited his nursery today and the headmistress told me that he has only been given 3 hours per week of 1-1 support. It will be impossible for him to go there for any of the other time (he was supposed to start on 3 afternoons per week) without any support as he really does need it.

 

So, I know this is not unheard of but what do I do now? Do I have to accept it or can I try and get more support for him? if so, who do I speak to?

 

J is my only child so I haven't really got a clue where to start (methinks it's time to venture into the education bit on here!)

 

I knew everything was going too well as I haven't had any problems getting helpand support up until now but I had a feeling as soon as we stepped into education the problems would begin!

 

I would be eternally grateful for any ideas!!!

 

Denisex

 

Sorry just realised this SHOULD be in education!! (Think I'm too scared to go in there incase my brain explodes from info overload )

[Suze]

Hi sorry can,t really help with pre-school provision, but this does,nt sound very good 3 hrs......did any assessment take place to ascertain how much support he would need?

[smiley]

Hi Jadensmum,

 

I might have to say the dreaded word........ brace yourself........ 'Statementing!'.

 

Does he have a good consultant or portage plus team who can go and talk to the pre-school? The funding is there if it's needed. Maybe the pre-school arn't aware he will need constant 1-2-1??? Hopefully once they've been made aware, they can apply for extra funding and give your little one more support

 

<'> <'>

[Jadensmum]

Hi Suze,

 

I think he was assessed at the Special Needs unit he attends 2 mornings per week by a woman from Inclusion Support. She is the one who put the bid (?) in for support.

 

I must admit I have been totally naive about all of this and because I have had no problems so far just let everyone "do their thing" and probably not asked as many questions as I should have done

 

Denisex

[nellie]

Denise,

 

This assessment will have nothing to do with a statutory assessement.

 

You can find the relevant information here, it's also worth giving them a ring.

http://www.ipsea.org.uk/sevenfixes.htm

 

and here.

 

information on SEN procedure, NAS information sheets on Education

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=690

 

Useful Documents on SEN Procedure., For parents of children with SEN.

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=675

 

Hope this helps, any questions just ask, someone will have the answers.

 

Good luck.

 

Nellie xx

[phasmid]

I would also be seeking advice fro the Disability Rights Commission as your son is being denied access to a (full) service soley due to his disabilities. This is illegal. If he was the same age without problems they would not be restricting his attendence. Thay have to take all reasonable steps to ensure he can access the service they offer. The 3 hours a week on offer doesn't cut it!

[Jadensmum]

Thanks for youur replies. Will let you know how I get on x

 

Denisex

[littlenemo]

if look in education, at the top there is a list of important topics that help explain certain issues around statements and inclusion and sources of help - most of this is not discussion as such, more information, so no pressure

 

may be a good place to start

 

Zemanski

[Jadensmum]

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for all of your replies. We had a review meeting today at the Family Centre (Special needs group) Jaden attends 2 mornings per week and it's not all as bad as I first thought

 

I met the woman from Inclusion Support who had put the bid in for the 1-1 support and explained I wasn't happy with the 2 x 1 1/2 hour sessions we had been given. She explained that J could have a 3rd day with 1 1/2 hours if we chose but she thought he was only going to go for 2 afternoons. She then said she had put 7 bids in and the only child in the area who received more support (2 hours per session) was a child who has Cerebral Palsy and is confined to a wheelchair. So that shut me up.

 

It was then agreed in the meeting that Jaden will still go to the Family Centre 2 mornings per week. A daycare childminder (provided through Inclusion Support) for 1 day (5 hours) per week, nursery 2 afternoons to start with (the nursery have said that we should play it by ear about him being there without the 1-1 as there are always 3 staff there and when I went in there were 12 children in the class that day) and the Early years Support teacher who visits us once per week at home will still come.

 

So....a better outcome than I expected. I wasn't expecting the Family Centre or the childminder to continue once he went to nursery.

 

Although, they haven't actually found anyone to be his 1-1 yet. So we'll see what happens there.

 

All of the staff at the nursery went on a signs and symbols course last week which I am really pleased about too.

 

So I feel a lot more positive than I did on Friday

 

Denisex

[Jadensmum]

Ooh and I am going to ask for him to be statemented. Although I have been told by a friend who is a SENCO that this county doesn't like statementing

 

Denisex

[phasmid]

She then said she had put 7 bids in and the only child in the area who received more support (2 hours per session) was a child who has Cerebral Palsy and is confined to a wheelchair. So that shut me up.

 

Out of order!

 

This is tantamount to emotional blackmail ("So that shut me up."). The needs of any other child are simply NOT your concern. Their problems have nothing to do with your childs problems or provision. She was WRONG to bring that up.

 

Although I have been told by a friend who is a SENCO that this county doesn't like statementing.

 

That makes a change from the line "We don't do statementing anymore." I suppose. But the answer is still tough luck. You have every right to ask for an assesment to be carried out whether they like it or not!

[slt101]

This is tantamount to emotional blackmail

Why is that blackmail? If we lived in the perfect world where money had no bearing on the support offered children with complex needs I would agree with you. BUT we do live in a world that is governed by money. There is a finite level of money available to support children with needs (I agree that it is not enough, by a long measure it is not enough) but we have to work within the framework and funding that is available. I don?t think the lady from Inclusion Support was using the �Nobody was successful with the bids for support� as an emotional blackmail statement.

[phasmid]

Thats exactly what she was doing AND, whatsmore, she should not be discussing other clients without their express permission. Thats a breach of confidence. As for not living in a perfect world, I think all of us on here know that without being told - but thanks for reminding me!

 

I work in education and know the limits of what is and isn't available. However, the issues faced by a n other child/ren with regard to SEN funding have no relevance to this person's child. They are a side issue that Jadensmum need not concern herself with. The LEA cannot use the criteria of funding not being available to dodge writing a statement ( the fact thet they then have to fund the provision set out in the statement is another issue - but that is their problem). Not my opinion. A fact.

Edited December 5, 2005 by phasmid

[smallworld]

Spot on

 

wac

[Hectorshouse]

Clear as crystal Phas

 

I was reading this thread and about to post the same thing as Phas when I read about the other child with CP ... Jadensmum, it quite simply isn't anything to do with you and was a breach of confidentiality by the Inclusion Support.

 

I would go ahead with the statementing process yourself, early intervention is meant to be the way forward according to the COP and 'Every Child Matters', you don't have to ask the SENCO to do this you can start this process yourself, if you wait for the SENCO you might end up waiting a long time.

 

No county likes statementing it will cost them money!

 

slt - thanks for reminding us that the world isn't perfect ... we all know there are budget limitations that is exactly what we fight so hard about, the needs of the child are what is meant to be considered not the needs of the LEA's budgets. The fact that the inclusion officer had to 'bid' for the support of SEN children says it all!

 

HHxx

Edited December 6, 2005 by Hectorshouse

[Jadensmum]

Thanks for your replies. I must admit when the woman from Inclusion support mentioned the other childs support (or not as the case seems to be!) it did cross my mind that she was indeed mentioning it to make it look like I should be grateful for the support we HAVE received. I wasn't expecting her to say anything like that so it really did throw me.

 

As for statementing, I'm definitely going to go for it.

 

Denisex

[slt101]

she should not be discussing other clients without their express permission. Thats a breach of confidence.

How is this a breach of confidentiality? Was there a name mentioned? Was the school mentioned? Was the area of the county even mentioned during this conversation? If not then I am not sure how confidentiality has been broken?

 

I work in education and know the limits of what is and isn't available. However, the issues faced by a n other child/ren with regard to SEN funding have no relevance to this person's child

Maybe the Inclusion Support lady shouldn't have said that but that is exactly what is happening, if someone takes a huge amount of money then this will influence what is left in the pot for others. Whether we like it or not that is what happens!

 

Of course the support given to a child should not be decided on how much money is left in the pot but the LEA has a budget and has to prioritise its resources. We would all want each child with complex difficulties (ASD or not) to have the support they need to help them develop to their full potential. BUT resources are rationed because of how much money the LEA have to spend on SEN.

 

Resources rationing isn't just restricted to education, I am sure that all Cardiothoracic surgeons would love to be able to complete all the heart bypass operations they need for all their patients but this is also controlled by resources.

[phasmid]

First the original comment that started this 'debate':

 

She then said she had put 7 bids in and the only child in the area who received more support (2 hours per session) was a child who has Cerebral Palsy and is confined to a wheelchair.

 

How is this a breach of confidentiality?

 

I've already answered that, but keep reading I'll answer it again...

 

Was there a name mentioned? Was the school mentioned?

 

You'd have to ask jadensmum that one...

 

Was the area of the county even mentioned during this conversation? If not then I am not sure how confidentiality has been broken?

 

Clearly you'd only have to know what geographical area this lady is responsible for to work out where and (if not named directly) who this child with CP is - there's enough information in what jadnesmum has said on here and I'm betting she has given us the abridged version. Quite simply I would not discuss another childs support or progress with anyone but them, their parent/guardian or a colleague, niether should she. You ought to know that, assuming SLT means your a speech and language therapist as appears to be the case (no, I'm not doubting your word on that one). It is just something that a professional does not do - ever.

 

This is a case of somone from the LEA using underhand tactics to make a parent feel grateful for the crumb of support they have been offered, and no doubt had to fight for, when a slice should have been given.

 

We would all want each child with complex difficulties (ASD or not) to have the support they need to help them develop to their full potential. BUT resources are rationed because of how much money the LEA have to spend on SEN.

 

This is another tactic used by LEAs to dodge the issuing of statements, or fulfilling the obligations they should when they do issue them. Have you looked at the response from the DfES to the letter from IPSEA yet? The DfES admit it happens to the point they are telling LEAs it is ILLEGAL! The only way we will change the situation of general lack of funding is by sticking up for our kids (and in my case those I work with) and demanding they are supported properly. We are NOT WRONG to do this. We have every right to expect our children SEN or not, ASD or not, to be enabled to access the full curriculum to the fullest extent of their ability...if that requires funding in order for the to achieve it then it should be there. If we all keep banging away at the drum long enough the DfES, government, LEAs etc will HAVE to listen to us in the end.

 

It seems to me that you almost think you have to fight this womans corner for her. Why? I don't defend teachers, schools or TAs who get it wrong because I work in a school (just the opposite in fact). If they are in the wrong thats their fault - not mine. If they need to be told I say tell 'em. I'd do it in person myself for anyone who asked if I could. But I can't, so I'll offer help, advice, pointers and so on on here instead.

 

LEAs ought to realise parents are not mushrooms - they can't keep us in the dark and feed us Bull****, we won't take it....more to the point: why the ###### should we?

 

Jadensmum, you go fight for the provision your son is entitled to, just as I am certain the parent of the child mentioned to you by the LEA lady has had to do. They are both entitled to it, and it is not at the expense of each other or someone else...that's just a ###### feeble 'guilt trip' excuse, whoever uses it! I'll back your fight to get it as much as I would back the other mum's. The real shame of it is that any of us have to battle for it in the first place, is it not?

 

 

It's not a perfect world, but it can get better. We can make them hear us if we shout at them for long enough. The 1944 Education Act was the point where parents were first given a real chance to have any input on their childs education. What a crying shame that some 61 years later we are still having to stomp up and down and cry 'foul' in order to be heard.

[smiley]

 

Couldn't agree more Phasmid!

 

[Jadensmum]

Thanks Phasmid

 

This is all new to me. Jaden is my only child and I knew nothing about Autism before I had him. I also have limited knowledge regarding our children's education and the in's and out's of it. Funding, statements etc are all new terms to me(Although obviously I'm beginning to learn!)

 

I feel like I have been quite naive so far as I have not had to really ask for any support as it has always been forthcoming, but this has given a me a HUGE reality check.

 

With regards to Inclusion Support mentioning the other child... no names were mentioned but I'm guessing as she works in this area, then it would be a child in this area.

 

That was really all she did mention as I was stunned into silence!!!

 

Denisex

[slt101]

Clearly you'd only have to know what geographical area this lady is responsible for to work out where and (if not named directly) who this child with CP

 

I think you would have to be Sherlock Holmes to work out who this child is with that amount of information, especially if we are talking about a city/county wide service. I am not "defending" her, just trying to add a suggested other side to the coin, the other side that is never represented on this forum. It is very easy to cast comments concerning this and many posts on this forum when not in possession of all the facts (that was certainly not aimed at anyone). You give the same information to 20 different people you get 20 different interpretations. My comments are not designed to cause a debate but to add opinions from a different view point.

 

This is a case of someone from the LEA using underhand tactics to make a parent feel grateful for the crumb of support they have been offered, and no doubt had to fight for, when a slice should have been given.

 

I am completely fascinated in the concept of LEAs being "underhand". Do you think the Director of Education at your local LEA sits in their office thinking of how many dastardly ways he can cause misery to the many thousands of children with SEN in their county? Do you think SEN officers smile with glee over the prospect of providing pittance with the amount of support they offer or enjoy all the "guilt" they can inflict on someone. Or do you think they don't have enough resources to cover the ever increasing numbers of children with SEN? I am sure LEAs don't relish being illegal in many of their actions but this is done out of necessity.

 

We live in a resource led society.

 

BUT I do applaud the members of this forum who do take time to petition people in influential offices to change the way our children are supported.

[phasmid]

I am completely fascinated in the concept of LEAs being "underhand". Do you think the Director of Education at your local LEA sits in their office thinking of how many dastardly ways he can cause misery to the many thousands of children with SEN in their county?

 

Not quite in the way you suggest I don't but, I do think they distance themselves as much as possible (to allay guilt maybe?) and operate with the attitude that a penny saved here is a penny to spend somewhere else. The director of education in the LEA I work for has never made an apperance locally that I am aware of, no have I or many of my colleagues been given the chance to have our say on the issues that matter to us and the children we work with. I for one would take the chance to do so - with relish.

 

Do you think SEN officers smile with glee over the prospect of providing pittance with the amount of support they offer or enjoy all the "guilt" they can inflict on someone. Or do you think they don't have enough resources to cover the ever increasing numbers of children with SEN?

 

In some cases, BOTH! In most cases, thankfully (attitude wise at least), it is the latter. But that still does not mean it is right. 'Each child should be treated as an individual' not a word for word quote from the DfES letter to IPSEA but close enough.

 

 

I am sure LEAs don't relish being illegal in many of their actions but this is done out of necessity.

 

That ranks alongside 'I was just following orders' as an excuse. It simply doesn't wash. Alas a lot of the problems our children face due to lack of support do come down to money, or rather the lack of it! Some of them, I'm sorry to say, also come down to ignorance and the unwillingness to accept the findings of professionals from other fields - including, no doubt, your own. As for the LEAs and funding, perhaps they too should join us in making the points about funding that we make to those in the government who control the purse strings. Maybe they could make them listen where we can't.

 

We have taken the topic away from the purpose of the original posting on this thread and therefore I think we should draw a line under it at this point and allow the thread to return to the original issue(I could keep this up all day but feel we ought to start a new thread on it in order to do so).

[neda]

Jaden's mum, I'm glad you got more than expected for Jaden.

 

Phasmid, thanks for stating things so clearly. Your explanations make a difficult situation more understandable when it comes to the rights our children are entitled to.

[Hectorshouse]

Phas ... well done as ever eloquent and absolutely right, this is not a thread about a debate on LEA's etc ... this is a thread about Jaden and the support he has been offered. The purpose of this forum is to support and inform, so Jadensmum, we are here to help you if you want it, don't feel intimidated by the process or the professionals.

 

HHxx Good Luck.

[Jadensmum]

Thanks Hectorshouse,

 

I will definitely mention that I'm not happy with the answer given by the woman from Inclusion Support. As it stands at the moment, Jaden will have quite a full week and I don't lose any support either so I'm happy to see how he goes at nursery with the hours he has got.

 

As for statementing...it will be full steam ahead...and I won't be accepting any thing less on that one!!!!

 

Thanks again everyone

 

Denisex