oracle Report post Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) deleted Edited November 3, 2006 by oracle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bid Report post Posted October 6, 2006 I've registered, but I don't seem able to work out how to read people's posts!! I'm trying to read your's, Oracle! Bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lorryw Report post Posted October 6, 2006 Hi Carole, I cant find it, Ive spent 20 minutes faffing around but no joy. Loraine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jericho Report post Posted October 6, 2006 I'm lost for words! So we're all overinvolved parents who will do anything to wring a few more pounds out of our child's ASD - while searching for a cause of that ASD??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bid Report post Posted October 6, 2006 Oh well, probably just as well I can't seem to read any of the threads...I'm feeling pants enough as it is today! Back to the red, then! Bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lorryw Report post Posted October 6, 2006 Ill join you Bid.......still cant read the thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathryn Report post Posted October 6, 2006 This is very frustrating and tantalising. I haven't been able to get in at all. I can't seem to register because I'm already registered, apparently. I've clicked "get password" several times and although it assures me one has been emailed, I haven't received one yet. So I'm sorry, Oracle, I can't read any of these. K x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UltraMum Report post Posted October 6, 2006 I've registered, but I don't seem able to work out how to read people's posts!! I'm trying to read your's, Oracle! Bid I've used the 'flat' option for reading the posts - the threaded one is a nightmare ... just means that replies are not necessarily next to the message they refer to but it's definitely easier to follow. To read a complete thread in the threaded view click on the bottommost message and it opens the thread for that aprticular part of the discussion (I think) Go to 'Discussions' at the top then ... The overinvolved parents bit comes under 'autism and services' - Oracle's is under Education and then 'autism friendly services - it's the law' Hope this helps navigation... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UltraMum Report post Posted October 6, 2006 This is very frustrating and tantalising. I haven't been able to get in at all. I can't seem to register because I'm already registered, apparently. I've clicked "get password" several times and although it assures me one has been emailed, I haven't received one yet. So I'm sorry, Oracle, I can't read any of these. K x Can you register again? My password ended up in my junkmail ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lorryw Report post Posted October 6, 2006 Thanks Carole, Over simplistic, psyco babble, God help the poor souls who came across this so called professional. No mention of the lack of support or trained and interested professionals. Lorainex Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmuir Report post Posted October 6, 2006 Clearly written by a clueless moron! If parents aren't involved enough, they're criticised and if overinvolved, criticised. No win situation. Fact is nothing is handed out on a plate in terms of support, diagnosis, etc. Caroline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gladysmay Report post Posted October 6, 2006 I thought it was very flimsy, and the conclusions, well I didnt read the list of offences parents were meant to be guilty of, the examples didnt support the list as far as i could see, it was a matter of interpretation and it was his interpretation, sometimes the so called professionals are just over involved! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bid Report post Posted October 7, 2006 (edited) I haven't been able to read the subsequent posts on this topic, so I can only comment on the original article. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the original article...the author is discussing some parents. I know from first hand experience in my job, and from listening to my father and my DH (who both worked/work within the Special Needs field) that some heart-breaking things happen. I think it's unrealistic to assume that all parents of children with special needs are 'special' and exempt from any kind of criticism. Some parents are fantastic, some don't give a toss and probably the majority just muddle through. In this I think they reflect all parents of all children. Bid Edited October 7, 2006 by bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curra Report post Posted October 7, 2006 It gives ammunition to SS, schools etc to criticize parents for their involvement. I got the impression from reading the paper that for this doctor the best interest of the child with ASD is not first priority . His purpose is to first, make parents feel guilty, back down and withdraw their involvement with the services so that THEY ( the "professionals") can do their work without being challenged so much; and second, he's trying to blame the parents when something goes wrong, saying it was due to their overinvolvement. My personal experience has not been bad with professionals (apart from some people at school), especially with doctors, but I have never been told by them to stay away from my child and leave the care in the professionals' hands, quite the contrary, they have expected me to access the services available and make sure that my son gets the help he needs. So I don't know what this doctor is really talking about. Maybe he has a personal grudge against some parents? Can't tell, but whatever it is, he's not being fair with the majority of the parents! Curra Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lindy-lou Report post Posted October 7, 2006 Oh crikey Does this mean i am also too involved in my pregnancy? cretins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bid Report post Posted October 7, 2006 Wow, that's interesting Curra, because I didn't get any of that from the article Just shows how much personal interpretation can vary! Bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curra Report post Posted October 7, 2006 Wow, that's interesting Curra, because I didn't get any of that from the article Just shows how much personal interpretation can vary! Bid Personal interpretation can really vary, Bid, especially when the wording is vague and lends itself to different points if view. I have reread the article and I still find that although on the surface the interests of the child seems to be paramount, if you notice, all the examples and the conclusions lead to show the parent's "overinvolvement" as what triggered the child's additional problems. Here's one: Thus, these parents unwittingly cause emotional arousal in the child, showing in symptoms that range from anxiety (with an increase in autistic symptomatology) to aggression whether to himself or to others. They can also disrupt the service being provided It looks to me that he's saying very directly that in the example he gave (as in the other exanples too) the worsening of the symptons of this child with dangerous implications to himself and to others were caused by the parents' overinvolvement and that is also the reason why the services could not be provided as they should have. My personal reaction to this paper, is that this doctor's negative view of parents looks like something personal, but of course I cannot know. He is blaming the parents for situations in which something went wrong, but we don't have in the article the parents' view, why they acted in this way. We get at the end of the paper that some parents, like the ones in the examples, are too overprotective, etc but I think that is not fair on them because we don't get to know their true reasons. Maybe they know their children better? Whichever way I see it, I find that the paper is not fair on the majority of the parents. From the reactions in the Awares forum it seems that there are lots of parents who feel offended by this paper. Curra Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bid Report post Posted October 7, 2006 (edited) This is an interesting discussion ...as I said, I can only comment on the original article. To me he is discussing the behaviour of some parents. But it simply can't be denied that there are some parents of children with special needs who do behave in ways that many of us would find hard to understand. In the same way that it's unhelpful if professionals view all parents negatively, I think it's also unhelpful if parents take the view that parents are somehow exempt from any criticism. Both views are unrealistic, in my personal opinion. Bid Edited October 7, 2006 by bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pingu Report post Posted October 7, 2006 (edited) Oracle. I could'nt resist adding my two penny worth.. Which i have now done. Be it right or wrong, i have also added thet the problem is not Overinvolved parents, But UNDERINVOLVED professionals. We just have to look at Paula's story (onecrazygal) to confirm this point. shaz Edited October 7, 2006 by pingu Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lorryw Report post Posted October 7, 2006 Hi Shaz Youve hit the nail squarely on the head. I have absolutely no faith in any professionals I have met. Over the years we have been let down, betrayed, ignored or forgotten. I am now deeply cynical and accept nothing at face value which is sad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oracle Report post Posted October 7, 2006 (edited) deleted Edited November 3, 2006 by oracle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karen A Report post Posted October 7, 2006 I have just left the Awares Conference before I blow it up I am so angry Do you know that parents who post here all need to get a life We are so busy supporting each other that we are failing to remember we have autistic children. Check it out Autism and Services Overinvolved Parents Re:Patterns of Parental Behaviour http://www.awares.org/conferences/bb.asp?c...on=000100010002 Oracle No no no........I have a life because of others who have been prepared to post here--So when things feel bad I know I am not alone.This is where I find out how to manage with my child. If I could find the angry face I would use it.Karen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gladysmay Report post Posted October 8, 2006 (edited) Curra, I read this the article and found it one sided, as you say, we had no idea why some things went wrong, I have made my thoughts known on the conference site but personally I do see exactly what you mean, there is a certain leaning shal we say toward it being the parents to blame every time, we dont get the chance to see the whole picture where it might show that actually Dr whoever was not fully understanding the need or maybe even something small that had been missed. there could be all kinds of reasons for things to start to unravel in a parent/professional relationship and it is arrogant for the professional to always think they are right, and I would add parents get it wrong too but the professional has all kinds of back up available and should seek advice from someone less close to the case for appraisal, objectivity etc. I would recommend Larry Arnolds paper over at Aware.Voices from the spectrum. Edited October 8, 2006 by gladysmay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oracle Report post Posted October 8, 2006 (edited) deleted Edited November 3, 2006 by oracle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UltraMum Report post Posted October 10, 2006 I'm getting cross now with some of the ther contributors ... I've joined in your debate, Oracle, with some of my research from last year ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gladysmay Report post Posted October 10, 2006 it is a very varied mix of responses over at Awares, some of them are quite startling, Idisagreed with someone and was hauled over the coals for it quick as you like. nevertheless it is a great opportunity and I would not let that put me off. thanks for the heads up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
