ok so now im panicking

[JenRose]

the meeting is on weds to disscuss the proposed statement. i am so unprepared its unreal, its with R being in hospital last week i was going to use those 2 days to prepare myself.

 

Basically in M,s statement they are allowing UP TO 20 hours a week, no speech and language, no visual stuff, no handwriting programm like the Ed psych suggests,

 

Ive not named the school and have until the 2nd of feb so the LEA lady informs me whether she is right or not i dont know but we want him to go to an independant school and not the one that the LEA suggests we put him in.

 

IPSEA told me the other week that we have such a strong case to win a tribunal because M has been out of school for nearly 18 months.

 

Im panicking like mad, i cant think of what im going to say to them. parent partnership have pulled out of the meeting and its just me and Dave and he doesnt know ANYTHING about SEN and the law.

 

Ive tried to get hold of IPSEA and will do again tomorrow, can anyone advise anything, id be so grateful.

 

Thanks

[charliesvoice]

the meeting is on weds to disscuss the proposed statement. i am so unprepared its unreal, its with R being in hospital last week i was going to use those 2 days to prepare myself.

 

Basically in M,s statement they are allowing UP TO 20 hours a week, no speech and language, no visual stuff, no handwriting programm like the Ed psych suggests,

 

Ive not named the school and have until the 2nd of feb so the LEA lady informs me whether she is right or not i dont know but we want him to go to an independant school and not the one that the LEA suggests we put him in.

 

IPSEA told me the other week that we have such a strong case to win a tribunal because M has been out of school for nearly 18 months.

 

Im panicking like mad, i cant think of what im going to say to them. parent partnership have pulled out of the meeting and its just me and Dave and he doesnt know ANYTHING about SEN and the law.

 

Ive tried to get hold of IPSEA and will do again tomorrow, can anyone advise anything, id be so grateful.

 

Thanks

[smiley]

<'> <'> <'> <'>

 

Oh hun, i know just how you feel - i felt totally un-prepared for my meeting with LEA man.

 

Couple of things - get a list going now of all the bits you're unhappy with - especially the bits you can back up with evidence.... Keep it ongoing, i had a notebook and jotted bits down as i thought of them. Then i made a list from that of what i felt was most important - and what i was likely to get changed without much of a fight. Type this all up and give LEA person a copy as well as you and DH having a copy - if you're anything like me - you'll then have this list to look at when your mind goes blank!

 

Keep in mind - as much evidence as you can get. If there's something in the advices thats not in the statement - quote it. If you can find something to back up what you're saying (ie; on IPSEA or SEN CoP) then quote that.

 

SaLT bit - i printed off bits from IPSEA.

Handwriting programme - ask LEA why it's not in there - as the EP said it's needed.

Visual stuff - has anyone mentioned visual support or similar in the advices? If so, copy it and show LEA person that evidence. If not, dig up all you can about the need for visual support for ASD children - possibly NAS??

 

<'>

Edited January 29, 2007 by smiley

[JenRose]

what about naming the school, should i tell them on weds the name of the school that we wish M to go to?

[charliesvoice]

Personally i would advise you to get everything quantified within the statement especially Speech and Language therapy! ( if your child needs it ) Then fingers crossed the LEA can not worm out of giving you that support! IPSEA are great- keep trying them!

If you read my story ( petition the PM ) thats what you don't want to happen - we were never made aware with speech therapy that the amount of hours therapy your child needs had to be put in the statement - most families in my area just made sure it was put under Education provision!

[smiley]

what about naming the school, should i tell them on weds the name of the school that we wish M to go to?

 

Have you visited the school? Are you certain you want M to go to? Have you spoken to the Head? If yes, then i would - but make sure you're certain. I named a school and then was told that that school will not be able to meet his needs , but as i'd already named it..................

 

<'>

 

I'm sure you must have seen this - but just incase.....

 

Afasic

 

There are lots of bits about - but i found this one the most helpful <'>

Edited January 29, 2007 by smiley

[JenRose]

thanks charlie and smiley.

 

Yes we have visited 2 mainstream primary schools and the independant school we have also looked at.

 

We couldnt get M into a primary school last october, he became mentally ill through the stress, they want us to try another mainstream when he has been out of school for nearly 18months.

 

He has a dx of PDD but they havent included that in his draft statement either.

[smiley]

He has a dx of PDD but they havent included that in his draft statement either.

 

Have that as number one on the list of things that have to be changed

 

<'>

[JenRose]

what i want to do is to go to the meeting tomorrow with this in mind.

 

Hours/provision need specifying/quantifying

Why has his dx of PDD not been included

Where is his speech and language therapy

Where is the handwriting programme that the Ed psych says he needs

The OT and Edpsych both say he has limited awareness of danger/is vulnerable to bullying/exploitation

how can they ensure that this wont happen

What training will the TA have

and finally i want to get all this right and then name the independant school on part 4

 

but, i dont want to get into arguments tomorrow, for one PP cant come and our Independent psych is unable to come as well and i dont want to be talked into anything that im not sure of.

 

Can i say at tomorrow,s meeting that i want to put everything in writing to them and then ask for another meeting?

 

Thanks

[JenRose]

just heard back from our independant ed psych.

 

He says m,s statement is disgusting, they have not allowed him time for breaks/lunch.

No OT when the OT clearly says he has handwriting problems

No Speech and Language when both the OT and Ed Psych says there are problems

No dx of PDD

 

He says there are far too many changes to make to the proposed statement and suggest that we go along to the meeting tomorrow and say we are unhappy with it and we will be appealing to SENDIST.

 

he says he will draft up a new statement for us thats so watertight that it will do us really well to get M into the specialist school.

 

im confused now, and i still cant get through to IPSEA although i keep trying.

[helenl53]

In order for you to go to SENDIST, you need the statement to be finalised.

 

You have more chance of success at SENDIST if you are appealing all parts of the statement (parts 2, 3 and 4). If they button up 2 and 3 and then finalise it, you may have less chance of a decision to name parents choice of school at Part 4.

 

If it was me - and this is only my own viewpoint, I would not attend the meeting and would request that they finalise the statement and inform you of your rights of appeal. Otherwise valuable time could be wasted dicking about and then they will probably try and issue a 2nd Proposed statement which sets the whole clock ticking off again! By the way, all the time you are negotiating with them about the proposed statement, they can use this as an excuse to delay the statutory deadlines for finalising. Sorry to be a cynic, but I have been there and got the straightjacket!

 

I think that if you have a really dodgy Statement, then it will be easier to argue at SENDIST for amendements to all parts.

 

This is only my point of view and you must take advice and do what you think is right.

 

HelenL

[JenRose]

that is what our independant psych has told us to do.

 

i couldnt understand what he meant, he said he will draft a very thorough statement for appeal so that we stand a good chance of getting M into the school that we want.

 

if we dont attend the meeting, what do we do, shall we just write and ask them to finalise the statement as we dont agree with 2,3 or 4 and then do we name our preferential school?

 

sorry to mither im just a bit confused by all of this.

[helenl53]

I would just write and say that you are unhappy that they have failed to describe his needs in full at Part 2 and have also failed to describe in full all that provision required to meet those needs at Part 3, therefore you would like the statement finalised and information on your rights of appeal. Lodging an appeal at SENDIST does not stop you continuing negotiations with the Local Authority on the content of the statement and in fact SENDIST are usually pleased if agreement can be reached on some points before the Tribunal.

 

When the statement is finalised by the LEA, I beleive that they must name the school that they deem suitable to meet your child's needs. I would not give too much away about where you would like him to go, as the onus will be on you to provide evidence that the school named will not be able to meet your childs needs and in my opinion, it is sometimes best to let them see the school that you are requesting at the Case Statement time. I know it is dodging and diving, but if they know in advance what you are likely to request, then you will be giving them the opportunity to present a better case for the school that they want.

 

I hope this helps and bravo to your independent Ed Psych for helping you.

 

By the way, I must just add that this information is purely my own opinion.

 

Best wishes

 

HelenL

[JenRose]

thanks very much for your advice helen i really appreciate it .

 

I have now managed to get hold of IPSEA, she told me to go to the meeting tomorrow and have a list prepared of what changes i would like and if they dont want to change the statement then ask them to finalise and name the school of our choice.

 

I said is it worth going to the meeting and she said yes.

 

Ive got to check that there is a place for M at the independant school as well, lady from IPSEA said we,ve got a very good case as M has been out of school for getting on 18 months and we have tried to get him back into 2 schools -mainstream ones of the LEA,s choice, we,ve gone along with what theyve said each time but M hasnt made it in and is still signed off for medical reasons.

 

so, dreading tomorrow.............

[helenl53]

It is horrible attending meetings. But sound advice from IPSEA. I am glad you have got some support from IPSEA - they are absolutely the dogs whotsies - I am anly as good as my own experience

 

Keep us posted on how tomorrow goes.

 

Best wishes

 

Helen L

[UltraMum]

Chin up JenRose

 

I'll be for you tomorrow

 

If you don't wish to agree to anything at the meeting I would make that clear at the start. Say that you and your husband need to discuss things with your advisors before making any decisions but that you are willing to listen to their reasons for their decisions and any proposals that they have to make.

 

Then - as Helen suggests - conclude the meeting by saying thank you for your time. In light of the time that has passed since the start of the assessment process in [whenever it started], we feel that, for M?s sake, it is important now to have a finalised statement in order to arrange the appropriate support for him. We wish to see this draft statement finalised, naming xxxx school, so that a programme can be in place for M ASAP

 

If in doubt write out a little speech for the beginning and end...!

 

My own opinion - feel free to plagarise

[Kathryn]

Good luck JenRose, I'll be thinking of you,

 

 

K x

[hev]

goo luck jenrose,its nerve wracking isent it,let us know how you get on,i will be waiting for update <'>

[JenRose]

Dont know if ill actually get to the meeting tomorrow, M and R both have temperatures and look like they are coming down with something.

 

Dave wont go on his own as he doesnt know much about SEN and the law and i cant leave the 2 kids ill with him as they will get distressed as he doesnt really understand their routines etc.

 

So if i cant go tomorrow i will just have to write them a letter,

ive drafted one just in case but if theres a slight chance that i can go, im going.

 

could one of you kindly look at this and tell me what you think, ive left off naming the school because as helen and our psych says we dont have to tell them at this stage and IPSEA told me the other week that i was to tell the LEA there was no point in naming a school when parts 2 and 3 were incorrect.

 

We are writing regarding the proposed statement that ********* Local Education Authority has issued for M,s Special Educational Needs.

 

In view of the time that has passed since the start of the Assessment process in September 2006 we request that you finalise the proposed statement as soon as possible.

 

We also request that you inform us of our right to appeal at the SENDIST Tribunal.

[UltraMum]

Dont know if ill actually get to the meeting tomorrow, M and R both have temperatures and look like they are coming down with something.

J and I have both had it the last few days - very nasty ...

Dave wont go on his own as he doesnt know much about SEN and the law and i cant leave the 2 kids ill with him as they will get distressed as he doesnt really understand their routines etc.

So if i cant go tomorrow i will just have to write them a letter,

 

HOW about ...

 

I apologise that we were unable to attend the arranged meeting due to illness. (Otherwise they will make much of it if you back out of the meeting!)

 

We are writing regarding the proposed statement that ********* Local Education Authority has issued for M's Special Educational Needs.

 

In view of the time that has passed since the start of the Assessment process in September 2006 we request that you finalise the proposed statement as soon as possible, allowing us to approach the SEN Tribunal.

 

 

 

This means that some of M's programme can be put in place to address his educational needs whilst the areas of disagreement between ourselves are clarified and discussed.

 

 

 

There still remain areas where we feel clarification or more specification is needed. We are happy to have further meetings with yourselves, regarding these issues, but do not want this to be at the expense of finalising the statement, organising support for M, or our right of appeal to the SEN Tribunal.

 

 

 

We also request that you inform us of our right to appeal at the SENDIST Tribunal. (You can leave this in if you want but they are obliged to do this by law when they send you the final statement - although we all know that LEAs are not always too clear about the legality of some things! )

[JenRose]

thanks ultramum, thats really really helpful

[JenRose]

didnt make the meeting as me and M are both not well with a stomach bug,R was fine this morning and so Dave went to work but i was a coward and got Dave to phone from work.

 

He said the lady at the LEA said "well why dont you come to the meeting then" and he said that he was in work and hadnt intended on coming anyway.

 

So i shall send them a letter asking them to finalise the statement and we shall see what happens from now on.

 

What happens about the independant school we want him to go to, do we have to check there is a place for him when we appeal to SENDIST? im not sure how it works.

 

Thanks

[Kathryn]

Hi JenRose,

 

Pity about the meeting, but these things happen. Hope you are both feeling better soon. <'>

 

Regarding the independent school: if/when you get to the appeal stage, SENDIST will want to see written confirmation from the school that they can offer your son a place.

 

K x

[helenl53]

We currently have a local case going to Tribunal and at the appeal stage, they parent on the advice of the Solicitor asked for 'specialist residential' rather than naming a school. The Solicitor explained that it is better if you can name a school, but this parent did not have absolute confirmation that a place was available. In any event, the school she had been thinking of was deemed to be not so suitable for her child and she has now found a placement in a more appropriate school. I know that at Tribunal, you need to have a place ready - the Tribunal can not name a school if there is no place for the child.

 

Hope this helps

 

HelenL

[helenl53]

Sorry, should have said that this particular parent was able to name a placement in her Case Statement - so from appeal to case preparation she had about 6 weeks which gave her enough time to find somewhere.

[JenRose]

Ah thats cleared it up for me now helen, our psych has repeatedly said to us over the last couple of days NOT to name the independent school we want M to go to (he,s very good,IPSEA trained as well!!) and so now i understand why, so i can liase with the school beforehand, i have been speaking to the headteacher over the last few weeks and she has helped me with advice etc, she said they have places for september but that they are all usually taken by May, this doesnt give us much time, but our psych said that they may hold a place open for M so i think ill phone her and tell her that we are going to tribunal.

 

On the plus side i do know that there are a few pupils from our LEA area that do go to the school and IPSEA said that this is a good sign as obviously our LEA do pay for pupils.

[Kazzen161]

Being cynical, I would say a reason not to name the school until I had got the LEA to agree to the amendments, woudl be that they would then make sure there was not sufficent in it to support the placement!

 

Do I take it that you are wanting the LEA to name their choice of school on the Statement, so that you can then appeal? Are you happy for your child to go to this school should you not win your appeal?

 

You can offer to mediate with the LEA whilst the appeal process is going on - you can always stop the appeal should you then come to a satisfactory aggreement.

 

Karen

[JenRose]

hiya kazzen yes we want to appeal against the school that they will name on the statement.

To be honest if we lose then this school will have to do, its the best of a not very good bunch but the headteacher is very nice, although a bit horrified at the prospect of having m in her school.

 

I have just received a letter from the LEA this morning

 

it says

Sorry you couldnt make the meeting yesterday due to illness.

it offers me some further dates in Feb and then says that due to us not attending the meeting yesterday and making parental representations that they feel they will not be able to meet the deadline of making the statement final in the 8 weeks.

 

so im sending them the letter today telling them to make it final and that we are going to appeal to the tribunal.

[Helen_1980]

Hmm, you know if I were you I would try to avoid that meeting. It may not help your case. I tend to think that meetings are waste of time unless you have good reason to feel that the LEA will shift their position. I can't see how it would help you really. It would be better for you to outline your preferences once you have the proposed statement - in an email or letter where you will not be in a position where you could say the wrong thing.

 

That's just my view for what it's worth.

[Kazzen161]

>>I can't see how it would help you really.

 

A Tribunal might see a refusal to meet as you not giving the LEA an opportunity to resolve the issues. However, the LEA will know that the places in your preferred school (and most other schools) will be gone by May, so if they can delay the appeal til after that, there will be no places left.

 

I believe that you have to name your preferred school after the proposed Statement (but before it is finalised), then if the LEA disagree, you can appeal.

 

Many residential schools will only agree to take a student after a three day trial, which may take time to organise.

 

 

Karen

[Helen_1980]

It's not really for the tribunal to judge how it was that you got there and why, but to look at the evidence on the table and decide whether the LEA's provision is appropriate or not - and you can make your views clear without having to meet with them (which would give them plenty of time to resolve anything). But I agree there is a fine line and you need to look as though you have cooperated. The danger is that the LEA could use the meeting to score points.

 

I think it depends on what you are looking for in the statement, and how polarised or otherwise your view is likely to be from the LEA's. If they are miles away from where you want to be then any amount of meetings are likely to be futile in my opinion.

[JenRose]

yes our LEA are miles away from what we want.

Part 2- they wont acknowledge M,s dx of PDD

Part3 an LSA up to 20 hours to be used within groups and 1-2-1

frequent mentions of "when he,s back in school" and "we need a date when he would be attending full time school" if the medical people cant give them this how can they expect us to?

and "when he,s back in school a further meeting to see if the level of support needs adjusting as he makes progress"

and the school they have named, its on a busy main road,not secure (M,s an escape artist), his classrooms right next to the dinner hall and theres his sensory problems, there is already a boy in the class with "severe behavioural problems" -head,s words not ours and she,s concerned that there could be an issue with regard to M being vulnerable to bullying/exploitation.

 

He,s been out of school for 2 years and only has 1 year left before high school and we want him in a school that can cope with him and vice versa.

 

Its a really bad proposed statement, i am writing to them tomorrow to ask them to finalise the statement and naming the school that we want in part 4 as the school have told me that they start allocating places from Feb.

 

Will they have to make the statement final as i have asked them to?

[Helen_1980]

They will have a number of weeks to issue the final statement - I can't remember exactly (does it say in the code of practice?) I think you are doing exactly the right thing. I doubt arranging a meeting with them will do anything but give them a chance to start making arguments against what you will seek in your appeal.

[UltraMum]

Time limits

8:57 On receipt of the proposed statement, parents have a right to state a preference for the

maintained school their child should attend and to make representations to, and hold

meetings with, the LEA. It must also be explained to parents that they have the right to

raise any other issues relating to the body of the statement. The LEA must normally issue

the final statement within eight weeks of the issue of the proposed statement. Exceptions

to the eight-week time limit are set out in the Education (Special Educational Needs)

(England) (Consolidation) Regulations 2001 appended at Annex A.

[JenRose]

oh arent they sly?

The new proposed statement came at the beginning of Jan so they have until the end of March to make it final?

 

And we cant approach SENDIST for an appeal until then.

 

I hope that the independent school will be understanding and hold a place for M.

 

I have sent the letter yesterday telling them to finalise the statement, do you think they,ll try and get us to have more meetings?

 

I saw the PArent Partnership lady yesterday and she asked me what was going on so i just told her, im not putting him in the mainstream school of their choice, we have tried 2 other mainstream schools and they,ve not worked, i think he needs a special school especially in light of his dx of PDD.

 

She agreed with me

 

She said they will probably say no, and i said i knew that, but she said this has gone on too long now and M is due to start high school in 2008 and whats the point of putting him in another mainstream school for one year?

 

I was really shocked that she had said that.