Beavers (again!)

[KateBall]

You may remember that some time ago I complained about my ds having been prevented by the beaver and cub leaders from progressing to cubs - for no apparent reason other than he has special needs - of an autistic like nature (he has no dx so what else do I call it!!). They did not prepare him for a move up - they just kept blocking it. In the end he had to leave because he hated going and being humiliated by children 2 or 3 years younger than him bossing him about. And he knew the score. Whilst it is obvious to me that the group leader gave a grudging apology I have nevertheless had an indication from the Area Commissioner that they will change their policy and training to deal with this sort of situation in a much better fashion.

 

This relates to a Baden Powell organisation which does not seem to have a policy in place as the main scouting organisation does relating to children with special needs. I pointed out to them that they should. I threatened them with legal action under the Disability Discrimination Acts if they didn't apologise and confirm what remedial action they would take. At area commissioner level they were accepting of their wrong doings and said that they would change their leadership training. This is what they had to say:-

 

"I can confirm that steps have been taken by the Baden Powell Scout's Association, Child Protection Training Team to emphasize that children like Simon should be allowed to progress with their peers, thus ensuring this sort of problem does not occur again, either within that Group or the Association as a whole".

 

Therefore if anyone has any such similar problems either in the nature of exclusion or differing treatment please do pursue it and I'd be happy to put you in touch with the Child Protection Officer who I liaised with.

 

They have given assurances and whilst my ds has no further involvement with the scouting movement because of their despicable behaviour towards him, I would nevertheless like to see that they stick to their promises for everyone else. Don't be bullied by local group leaders who are just another source of arrogant "I know best" attitude towards our children.

[pearl]

Good for you Kate Well done!

JP wasnt allowed to go to cubs cos they said they couldnt cope. But it was years ago & I'm a lot bolshier now than I was then. Wish I'd complained.

[Clare63]

Well done Kate, sometimes we just have to do things not just for sake of our own children but those in the future, well done again for escalating this.

 

 

Clare x x x

[pearl]

Just another view from my last post - I was telling mr pearl, & he said, well small cub groups will close if they cant cope, because they are all run by volunteers not paid people. They cant just magic extra help in, & if they accept children with extra needs without extra help & theres an accident, they will be liable.

 

I must admit I hadnt thought about that side of it & now I'm really not sure what to think.

[KateBall]

Just another view from my last post - I was telling mr pearl, & he said, well small cub groups will close if they cant cope, because they are all run by volunteers not paid people. They cant just magic extra help in, & if they accept children with extra needs without extra help & theres an accident, they will be liable.

 

I must admit I hadnt thought about that side of it & now I'm really not sure what to think.

 

 

I simply don't accept this excuse. The Scout law says "a scout is a brother to all scouts no matter what country class or creed the other may belong". What about the scout promise - part of which is "to help other people". This promise applies to the leaders just as it applies to each and every scout, cub, beaver etc. Baden Powell would turn in his grave. Its not that they can't cope - they don't want to deal with anything that may be a little bit difficult. People nowadays just won't accept responsibility. Some of them seem to want the glory and the fun of being a volunteer - but won't take the responsibility that goes with it. I doubt there is a parent here who wouldn't go and attend with their child to help if it were really necessary? Its not therefore about getting in extra outside help. If cub leaders had the will - they would find a way. I am sure Baden Powell would have done. My husband was a scout leader for more than 20 years. He found a way, was a volunteer, held down a full time job. He would have anything up to 50 or 60 children (ages 11 up to 16 including several with disabilities) with only 4 helpers.

[Pippin]

Kate said..." I doubt there is a parent here who wouldn't go and attend with their child to help if it were really necessary?"

 

Sadly I have not found this to be the case.(though I'm talking parents in general rather than us here). The vast majority of parents in my Brownie pack are only interested in "dump and run"......even with the "high maintenance" girls. Our cub pack closed because the only parents to turn up to the emergency meeting were myself and an 8 months pregnant Mum....and I couldnt help cos I'm running the brownies already!! On the occasions I have to take my ASD son along to brownie meetings it's hell-on-legs and I cant concentrate on the girls at all, he really needs one-on-one. At the moment I do brownies so his twin sister can go and to free up the old leader to run guides so my eldest daughter can go there. When it is P's turn to go to scouts I will be there for him.....but I suspect that will mean the Brownie pack closes as I'm sure no-one will take over. I'd love to be proved wrong.

[KateBall]

Kate said..." I doubt there is a parent here who wouldn't go and attend with their child to help if it were really necessary?"

 

Sadly I have not found this to be the case.(though I'm talking parents in general rather than us here).

 

 

I think this is the key difference - we sacrifice an awful lot for our children because we truly know what it is to care for someone who needs it. I feel sure many of us would go and help or look out to them if it was the difference between our children being accepted at cubs or brownies or whatever - and not being accepted. I know I would.

[pearl]

Ok. Not saying I agree with him. But I do think its harder to meet everyones needs if something is entirely voluntary.

 

And I have to admit I didnt volunteer to accompany JP. I know my limits, & part of wanting him to go was us needing a break, as we had no outside or family help whatsoever at that time. We did accompany him to other stuff, for instance he couldnt have gone on the schools outward bound week without one of us going with him, but felt we had to draw the line at cubs as it was a continuous, weekly commitment which we just couldnt manage.

 

Yes we all go the extra mile for our children willingly, but its ironic that the very parents who most need the break are the ones always expected to accompany their child. I dont know what the answer is.

[KateBall]

Ok. Not saying I agree with him. But I do think its harder to meet everyones needs if something is entirely voluntary.

 

And I have to admit I didnt volunteer to accompany JP. I know my limits, & part of wanting him to go was us needing a break, as we had no outside or family help whatsoever at that time. We did accompany him to other stuff, for instance he couldnt have gone on the schools outward bound week without one of us going with him, but felt we had to draw the line at cubs as it was a continuous, weekly commitment which we just couldnt manage.

 

Yes we all go the extra mile for our children willingly, but its ironic that the very parents who most need the break are the ones always expected to accompany their child. I dont know what the answer is.

 

Sorry Pearl - didn't mean to sound angry at you or anything. Quite agree with what you say here. I know I would go and accompany my ds - in the hope they would realise the eventual need for me not to go. I wouldn't be happy at having to though. I agree - we need the breaks when we can get them.

Edited June 28, 2007 by KateBall

[pearl]

Dont apologise hun <'> I wasnt offended. Its an emotive & complicated area innit?

[sandyn]

Hi Kate, its quite ironic that Ive read your post as I have just ranted on my ADHD website about more or less the same thing!

 

My son ( 7 ADHA, HFA and Dyspraxia) is due to go to Cubs in October. For one thing and another I had to speak to the Beaver leader last nite and the subject came around to his medication. His paed has agreed to give him an afternoon dose (Equasym - very like Ritalin) for any out of school clubs he belongs to as his ADHD becomes VERY apparent. I know his behaviour hasn't been great but I personally don't think its been that bad, considering his problems. I have also been a parent helper for a long time and all 6 to 8 year old boys are a complete nightmare!!!! Anyway, I told Beaver Leader that she should see some improvement in behaviour. She then told me that the Cub leader has refused to have him in his cub pack (despite him being in the division for almost 2 years), his reason was that he cannot deal / handle his behaviour. Now, like you, I have got extremely rattled by this. He hasn't even spoken to my husband or myself about any problems.

 

Anyway, where we are at the moment is DH is going to speak to said leader and explain R's problems and hopefully it can be resolved. DH will offer to be a parent helper for support . I think he's kinda excited at the thought!!!!

 

I just wanted to say to you that you are not alone and well done for fighting your son's corner. It is SO SO sad that we have to do this for so many things, especially when these social groups could help our children so much.

 

Well done for fighting for your son.

 

Sandra

[oxgirl]

Yes we all go the extra mile for our children willingly, but its ironic that the very parents who most need the break are the ones always expected to accompany their child. I dont know what the answer is.

 

 

I totally empathize with this. A few summers ago I enrolled Jay on an Art session during the hols and it just so happened they were doing papier mache and he hates getting his hands messy so it didn't go too well. The following year (last year) I phoned to book him up for it again and I was refused. They told me he had needed too much 1-2-1 and the teacher wasn't experienced and could I go along with him. Well, this isn't so bad for littlies maybe, but I wasn't going to humiliate him by going along with him and having him, at 12 1/2, having his mummy sitting with him and helping him when all the other kids were there alone. I didn't bother with it in the end, but I felt really let down and felt he'd missed out unnecessarily on a valuable social opportunity, which are few and far between anyway. I expect all the other kids had loads of stuff going on in the hols, friends to see, clubs to go to, fun to have, etc., but for us this was all he had, one afternoon, and we weren't even allowed to enjoy that without being made to feel humiliated.

 

Sorry for rant, I know this isn't Scout related, but it's kind of relevant.

 

~ Mel ~

[KateBall]

Sandra - good luck and I hope it gets sorted for your son. There is a good chance they are in breach of Disability Discrimination legislation but I know how difficult it is to start accusing - you get branded a trouble maker I'm afraid. I'm sure if you had to take it over leaders head the powers that be would not agree with the leader. They just have to make appropriate provision and if that means learn about the issues - allow parent help or whatever is reasonable then they must do it.

 

Mel - it doesn't matter it's not scout related - its the same issue isn't it? My ds was thrown out of his after school football because of so called "bad behaviour" when the reality was that the football coaches had no experience of dealing with special needs children and failed to recognise that their long winded (and incomprehensible) instructions were causing him all sorts of frustrations to which he obviously reacted.

 

If we don't fight for our children - who will? But I fully understand that sometimes we are just too tired to do it ourselves. I've been there too and let many things go by. But I'm not going to let all of them go.

[witsend]

Just wanted to say good for you for following it through and getting a response which may make it better for the next kids joining. There are so many things over the years I have meant to do the same about but have let them go because I've just been to downhearted and knackerd to follow it through!

The volunteer thing is a difficult one because of the gratitude factor. I work in a hospice and we have many volunteers with a range of roles, recently we started having volunteers whose sole purpose is to 'talk to' the patients ( ) unfortunately it has turned out most of these volunteers have little tact or sensitivity or understanding of the patients situation, I know this sounds awful but it seems many of them are just there to have a good nosey about and a gossip and fill there vast spare time! In short they are fulfilling some need in themselves but not in the patients and as nurses we find ourselves looking after the voulnteers and monitoring the situation as well as looking after the patients!! Sorry going off on a bit of an rant here, but I do think if someone volunteers for a specific role then they need to understand what is expected of them and once in that role deliver or do something else, I guess first responsibility lays with those who select/co ordinate the volunteers? Anyway don't want to offend anyone here I've been a volunteer in the past and I know most of them do fab work but when it comes to working with people often good intentions alone are not enough.

Anyway well done again Kate.

Luv Witsend.