What questions should I be asking

[Devon mum]

I need some help with getting my thoughts straight, I need to approach the SENCO, who thinks I just have low expectations of my daughter!

 

Okay my DD (9) after years of telling people she has more problems than just being difficult, was given a provisional Dx last October.

The psychologist wanted to get a WISC-IV done and asked SALT to do a CELF-Uk3.

 

These show that her IQ, verbal comprehension, working memory, sentence assembly, recalled sentences and word meanings are all in the bottom range being 2 - 7 percent so 93 - 98 children would fare better than her in those aspects.

 

Her processing speed and recalling sentences are 0.3 % and 1 %.

She has no idea about idioms.

 

She has been referred to CID's outreach by SALT - school didn't do this grrr!

 

I am waiting to see the Clinical Psychologist to get the final Dx.

 

The trouble is that you would not know there was any problem at all to look at her or talk to her, until she gets going that is!

So this then gets her into bother at school, she says things that are either taken the wrong way or are completely wrong but that she believes are true.

 

Now she is older and still not afraid to tell anyone anything, I get some very worried looks from those she catches out, and have to be vigilant with what she is saying when she does engage people.

 

She has a nervous bladder and this lets her down quite often, her teacher this year is great with her but she still got wet last week, the teacher took full responsibilty and was very apologetic!

 

Rebecca is now in year 5, I have no idea what will happen when she has to start year 7 and a new school!

I am worried that mainstream secondary education would not be able to meet her needs.

 

Any suggestions appreciated.

[bid]

Hi DM,

 

I would have a copy of the WISCs, etc, to give to the SENCO.

 

I would also type a summary of the findings using bullet points (a bit like you have done here) so that they are very easy for the SENCO to read and understand.

 

I would also try to give a short example of how each result actually affects her.

 

Hope that helps and good luck

 

Bid

Edited October 1, 2007 by bid

[Devon mum]

<'> Thanks Bid <'>

 

The frustrating thing is that I know the SENCO has had a copy the WISC report which was a four page document.

 

She has been sent the CELF-Uk3 report another 3 page document, I got mine last Thursday so she will have had hers too!

 

Yet she has not asked EP to see Rebecca since the supposed review date came and went back in June 06; not that I have been told about anyway!

 

The SENCO is also the Deputy Head, it used to be the head teacher that was the SENCO at least he made us feel like he may have been listening.

[Devon mum]

I've obviously got a BIG question to ask of the SENCO!

 

I have just seen on another thread that if a child is on SA+ then outside agencies should be involved.

 

Rebecca has been on SA+ for nearly 12 months and as far as I know she has not even seen the Ed Psych.

 

The WISC-IV and CELF-Uk3 were not the schools idea, they were ordered by the Clinical Psychologist.

And SALT referred Rebecca to the CIDS outreach team.

 

Not a dicky bird from SENCO!! :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

[Clare63]

Devon Mum,

 

My son too has a nervous bladder and the school has provided himwith a special pass so he can request the loo at anytime, trouble is he's too scared to use it.

 

Clare x x x

[mum23]

Hi Devon Mum,

I wonder if your daughter's SENCO is just out of her depth and does not really know what to do! I am sure many SENCO's have little real working understanding of ASD. I know my sons SENCO has NO idea unfortunatly she is too over worked to have time to learn about such things.

I found a page on the internet from Derbyshire county council they have put togerther a file ( The Derbyshire File for Autism Friendly Scools) for teacher and TA to support ASD pupils in main stream school, I wonder if something like this might be of use to your SENCO? You could offer it as a guide to how you would like her to proced with your daughters education.

Anna

[Devon mum]

I found a page on the internet from Derbyshire county council they have put togerther a file ( The Derbyshire File for Autism Friendly Scools) for teacher and TA to support ASD pupils in main stream school, I wonder if something like this might be of use to your SENCO? You could offer it as a guide to how you would like her to proced with your daughters education.

Anna

 

Thanks Anna

I'll go take a look see!

 

I just can't understand that if Rebecca is on SA+ why has she still not been seen by the Ed Psych.

 

I am trying to figure out a letter to write, but I need to be careful with the wording, so if that site is any good maybe I can inclue some info.

 

 

Off on a tangent here:

I have also just found out this week that Rebecca can no longer tolerate cows milk, she has been complianing for a while that her tummy hurts and what came out of her bottom freaked her out.

So I got her to change over to goats milk, as I drink that too, and now she has no belly ache.

[Devon mum]

I just can't understand that if Rebecca is on SA+ why has she still not been seen by the Ed Psych.

I am trying to figure out a letter to write, but I need to be careful with the wording, so if that site is any good maybe I can inclue some info.

 

Well I got the letter written, the next day while I was doing my bit in the school library the SENCO came in all smiles and said she was going to get her diary and sort out a time for us to meet.

So we get together on the last day of October.

 

I have been doing a lot of downloading from our County Council's website and now I have to do loads of reading so I know what the council say on the matter.

It already seems that I may have a case to push for a statement, based on her learning difficulties alone.

 

The trouble is that the one documant that I have printed off is dated September 2003 - Strategy And Provision for Pupils With Needs On The Autistic Spectrum.

It said according to one review done in 2001 of the approximate 120,000 children in our county at the time 720 could be affected, I wonder if I can find a more up-to-date file?

[pumpkinpie]

the probelm is at secondary schools things are much harder to manage because of the scale involved. the support for transison is poor for kids with difficulties so I think you need to be planning now and not allow yourself to be fobbed off.

As a council tax payer you can request input from an ed psych (an hours time) the school does not have to do it - part of their reluctance is they need more input from the ed psych than the time they are allocated so they put things off!

 

For your child to get a statement you need to show the child has needs the schools cant meet - translated this means the school has to have done all the things it should have and that includes getting the ed psych in. Its important that you push the school as it takes approx 6 months for a statement - you are running out of time to get support in place for the next school.

 

i f i was you i would write and put your concerns in writing detailing exactly what you want resoving from the meeting - be firm , the senco being nice and not doing anything isnt going to make a differnce to your child.

 

I would also tell her you are contacting the schools ed psych direct for advice and to discuss the report.

 

i would start to look at secondary schools asap so you will be a position to push for the school you want

[Devon mum]

Thanks PP <'>

 

I did not realise that I could ask the Ed Psych for her input.

Rebecca has been on the SEN register almost from the start of school and has still not seen the Ed Psych once!

 

I got into trouble with the HT last year because I sent an exasperated email to the Ed Psych, which nothing came of, the HT did not like me doing an end run around them.

The trouble is the SENCO and Ed Psych are quite pally, I remember last year after the provisional Dx, when the CP sent a letter to the ED Psych. The SENCO told me she found the letter condescending!

 

It is the transition to secondary that really bothers me, I am really worried at how Rebecca will cope with all the change.

We don't have much choice of school around here, we have a good school right in the town which both boys have gone to but then the next choices are 10 miles and more away, which we will then probably have to pay travel costs to, unless the authorities say that she needs to go to a different school to the one in the town.

 

Today at school the class teacher very kindly showed me Rebecca's work.

She had managed to write a letter in the neatest writing I have ever seen, it didn't look like R had written it.

 

Teacher said that she had had lots of help from TA's to get this done and it had taken a long time.

So then she slips in that tomorrow Rebecca is to do the work without support - now I don't for the life of me understand the reasoning there.

 

It's like there see she can do it with al this help so she should be able to do it alone too ... Huh?

If it works with the help then keep the help and let the child do some learning!!!!

Of course she couldn't stay and chat as she was as per usual off to a meeting.

[pumpkinpie]

So is your child on school action or school action plus? is she having regular iep meetings you are invited to?

[Devon mum]

So is your child on school action or school action plus? is she having regular iep meetings you are invited to?

 

She has been on school action plus for nearly a year now, the only I.E.P. meeting I have been to was last year and that was to be shown her I.E.P. after it had already been devised and was asked to sign it.

In fact I have never been to any I.E.P. meeting for any of my three children through their primary school years, I did not know I should have done so until this year!

I only got the most recent I.E.P. sheet after I let the teacher know I wanted to discuss it during parents evening at the end of September, she got me a copy the next day.

 

I'm feeling a bit like a mushroom!!

[pumpkinpie]

You could do with getting a copy of the sen code of practice and sen toolkit. I think they are breaching the act.

[Devon mum]

Yes I have been looking at the SEN code ofpractice and have used section 5:54 in my latest letter to the SENCO.

As you say I am running out of time for my daughter to get the best out of her time left at primary school and to make her transition as good as can be in 2009.

 

I will take a look at the SEN tool kit tomorrow, I don't think I have come across that in my search so far but I'm sure I will find it tomorrow.

Myself and my husband are through with being fobbed off now.

 

I have been told by the latest person I saw through CAMHS (who was also a governor at his child's school) that if I am not happy I should complain to the board of governors and then the LEA.

 

Let's hope it does not come to that.

 

<'> >< Thank you for your interest PP <'> ><

[Kazzer]

Hiya Devon's Mum,

 

SENCO's may have a title, but in our recent meetings , we have found them to be out of there depth, we are also woried about our son and year 7 , he is also in year 5...

 

I keep a diary of evidance for him, as he is really bad at telling us about whay happends to him,

I use this at all meetings i have with the school, I have been advised by the parent partnership team, to keep evidance that supports the schools lack of ability to deal with JC's Needs ... ( This may be helpful for you Devon's Mum )

 

Doing this has really helped me be foucsed , our School did not suppport our application for a statement,

I am detremined to have an assesment for JC, by keeping a full log , to use to the LEA, as " do other parents spend this much time in school" and do other children need this amount of addtional care, is this normal .... etc etc

 

the battles we face for our children are long , hard and painful, we will always have them , we must stand firm and show the schools, that they need to listen to us...

 

Challange there policys, I am not allowing the school to tell me that they are not able to help Jc, I am demanding the corect level of support, if they can not provided that then they need to ask the LEA for help ( Statement )

 

Good luck , you are not alone, even though some times it can feel like it..

 

Best wishes

K

[Devon mum]

Hi Kazzer

 

Thanks for that, I have written a second letter quoting from the SEN code of practice and a little document to do stating the Council's strategy for ASD children.

 

I think they may start to sit up and take me more seriously this time around.

 

Just so you know, hun, my screen name is more to do with my geographical location than whose mum I am.

 

I don't think they will be able to provide for Rebecca's needs without admitting that her educational difficulties mean that she needs a statement.

I am just going to have to push them to do it before the end of this school year.

I now have the WISC-IV and the CELF-Uk3 reports behind me and we are now waiting for the Communication and Interaction Difficulties (CID) - Outreach

Team to give the school advice, I know that this itself will be an excuse for more delay until the visit has happened.

 

None of these three things were asked for by the school, they have asked for no external support fro Rebecca since she has been on SA+ so in effect the are already not providing for her needs by lack of action, even though they may be giving her extra support at times in class, they still have made no effort to find out the reasons for Rebecca's inability to settle and do her work consistently.

 

I have been the one to get all the referals, right from the half term when she was in year 1 and the teacher didn't know what to try next to get Rebecca to comply.

And still the school don't seem willing to accept the reports, even the CAMHS nurse went in to see the SENCO.

[mum23]

Hi Devon mum,

Have you by any chance managed to contact the county Autism team? I live in east Devon and will hopfully be seeing one of the guys from the county Autism team at the end of Oct. at a ASD meeting we have in our home town. I can get his number and pass it on to you if you would like. I have looked all over the Devon gov site to find an up to date ASD guide but to no avail, infact I was told by one of the county inclusion officer that 'our County does not like to print guidelines as parents would then expect them to be acted on and that that is not always possible'!!!

Also you need to be awear that the Devon county SEN team will try to fobe you off with 'we are trying to reduce the need for statments and that measures should be in place at your childs school to help your child' (let it be said that this is a nation wide stratagy) DO NOT listen to them and request a parental statutery assesment if you need to. DO NOT be fobed off like I was as by the time you get to secondery school things get even more complecated. Sorry to sound negative but I've been there and am still trying to access help for my 3 kids that have other medicals conditions ontop of th ASD, all at secondery school now. I think this not understanding ASD or not wanting to understand is a problem in some schools in Devon not all, as some good and understanding ones out there as well really!

Oh about milk thing all my kids can not eat or drink milk products. never have since babies, lots of nice alternative stuff out there now thanfully.

Anna

[Devon mum]

Hi Anna

Yes I know what you mean about the fobbing off they did it with my boys!

 

I have phoned the CID outreach team and left a message, the person I am in contact with at Parent PArtnership suggested that I do this as it may speed things along a little.

I am not taking any messing about this time around, I listened to the school telling me DS1 was not far enough behind to get a statement and he was a lot worse when he was tested in secondary school and he left school still having not learned to spell, he is now in a small branch of Bridgwater college and really enjoying himself.

I was treated much like a mushroom with DS2 and his CATS etc during year 7 meant he has had life skills lessons, extra spelling, extra reading and missed nearly all of the summer term due to what seems to be IBS. He is now in year 8 and is getting retracking and is going to have some Alternative Curriculum Education.

 

DD is so much more complicated and she obviously has learning difficutlies as shown in the results of the WISC-IV and CELF-Uk3 assessments, the school is for the most part a good school. But as you say they just do not understand what it is to live with Autism and be expected to just fit in. I know they are trying with Rebecca but they are not comminicating with us properly and they are not going to get away with keeping us in the dark this time, I have a copy of the SEN code of conduct and the SEN tool kit which I need to go through.

 

Thanks for you input - I am in Kingsbridge by the way.

[MichelleW]

J is in year 3 (having moved from infant to junior school) and has been on school action plus since starting infant school. As far as I am aware (in this area anyway) school action plus means that the child is having input from external agencies (even if it is just one such as speech and language therapy or OT). I don't believe that being on School action plus means that they have to call in all external agencies. I know that the Ed Psych has not been called in for J, and I'm under the impression that the Ed Psych only comes in once the statementing process is initiated or underway. This is my next step.

 

However, I am getting feedback from J's class teacher which is completely different from his Year 2 teacher. I arranged a meeting with SENCO, who seemed to know what to do, but she had only been SENCO for a few weeks and it is new to her. The general impression I got from her was that I need to subject my son to everything that I know will distress him (i.e. school productions, nativity plays etc.) to be able to get the "evidence" to support a statement. Until this happens and the junior school start seeing the same behaviour that was witnessed by his year 2 teacher, I will not have any real evidence from the school. J's class teacher thinks he is doing really well, which makes it harder for me to prove he needs a statement.

 

All I can advise is to keep pushing the SENCO to call in the necessary agencies, and if the school doesn't, then go through the LEA, or directly to the external agencies.

 

Michelle

[Devon mum]

The general impression I got from her was that I need to subject my son to everything that I know will distress him (i.e. school productions, nativity plays etc.) to be able to get the "evidence" to support a statement. Until this happens and the junior school start seeing the same behaviour that was witnessed by his year 2 teacher, I will not have any real evidence from the school. J's class teacher thinks he is doing really well, which makes it harder for me to prove he needs a statement.

 

Is it just me?

But that suggestion seems totally barbaric, it just shows how little understanding most teachers have of Autistic (of what ever degree) children and what the families go through.

Do they really expect you to subject your child to what amounts to torture just so that you can prove your child has their particular needs and difficuties that go with it?

I know I wouldn't even consider it, and I guess you wouldn't either nor would any of us. Good Grief life is hard enough for our children.

 

Reviewing IEPs - from SEN code of practice.

5:53 IEPs should be reviewed at least twice a year.

Ideally they should be reviewed termly, or possibly more frequently for some children.

At least one review in the year could coincide with a routine Parents? Evening, although schools should recognise that some parents will prefer a private meeting.

Reviews need not be unduly formal, but parents? views on the child?s progress should be sought and they should be consulted as part of the review process.

Wherever possible, the child should also take part in the review process and be involved in setting the targets.

If the child is not involved in the review, their ascertainable views should be considered in any discussion.

 

With Rebecca as far as I know the clinical Psychologist in the only one who has requested external input over the last year, which is about long she has been on SA+.

I only know she is on SA+ because I saw it on her I.E.P. I have not been consulted, or otherwise involved, except for the once when the I.E.P. had already been written and they wanted me to sign it.

[mum23]

Not only you! it is barbaric but it does seem to be reality!

My kids primary school head thought she was wiser than my sons paed. and thought because my son never played up in school he could NOT have AS, this attitude cost my son an earliy diagnosis and earliy intervention, which is such a big shame.

The thing about IEP's and SA and SA+ is that schools an LEA's are trying to fase these out, not too sure what they think thay will replace them with though! in my kids school the SENCO wants to put in a pupil fact sheet instead. The idea being that it will list the childs details strenths and weaknesses but droping targets and goals.

About EP's, down here our school has already been funded for its SEN buget and it has to buy in EP services, well infact most services I think, which means they have to prorities this tends to mean that if you have a child that is not meeting tagets but is quiet and plods on they will be, in the eyes of staff, less of a priority to the child that is also not meeting same tagets but is also behaving unreasnably in class.

A friend of mine had to pay for her daughter to be assest privetly at a well known center in Somerset, as for the last 3 years D had been going futher and futher behind at 14 her oral and visual comprhension age is only 8 to 9 years! (lots more problems as well) She has only ever got support in English all other lessons she has had to fend for herself. On handing the lenghthy report into school the SENCO called my friend and said that it was really interesting and that they will now try and get some support into place. Da 3 years wasted because school did not think she worrented the cost of an outside agency. Our local parent carers suport group is seeing this sort of thing happen much more now and it does seem to be a trend. I'm still batteling for my 3 kids and in hope school will learn to understand in the long run it works out cheaper to implament good SEN and disability practice and all students would benift from a more understanding school.

Anna

[Devon mum]

My kids primary school head thought she was wiser than my sons paed. and thought because my son never played up in school he could NOT have AS, this attitude cost my son an earliy diagnosis and earliy intervention, which is such a big shame.

This has been my experience with DS1 it was a battle to get them to even admit he was dyslexic much less that he was also ADHD and DD well I'm sure they just think she is not really bothered half the time, when actually she doesn't understand what she is being asked to do.

<'> She had a guided reader called Oh, Otto that she read to me last night, I had to smile cos the mistakes the little alien boy made were so much her mistakes! <'>

 

The thing about IEP's and SA and SA+ is that schools an LEA's are trying to fase these out, not too sure what they think thay will replace them with though! in my kids school the SENCO wants to put in a pupil fact sheet instead. The idea being that it will list the childs details strenths and weaknesses but droping targets and goals.

DS2 in secondary school has a Student Information Sheet, very detailed and asks for input from all teachers and parents, so this is working as far as he is concerned - DS1 never had one and he is now in college where he is still having the same issues with focus and getting things mixed up. He also still cannot spell - even DD can tell him how to spell a lot of the words he gets stuck on - not that he appreciates that of course!!

 

About EP's, down here our school has already been funded for its SEN buget and it has to buy in EP services, well infact most services I think, which means they have to prorities this tends to mean that if you have a child that is not meeting tagets but is quiet and plods on they will be, in the eyes of staff, less of a priority to the child that is also not meeting same tagets but is also behaving unreasnably in class.

Yes this is the reason that DS1 never really got the help he needed, he would do anything not to be noticed, the rest of the time he was usually daydreaming at the times when he needed to be listening and that meant he missed out on important info.

DS1 said himself that if he had realised playing up would have got him more help, then he would not have spent so much time trying so hard to obey the rules!

 

My second letter last week has resulted in the HT wanting to touch base. Couldn't talk to him yesterday as I was WAAAAAY too emotional about other stuff, so I'm to find out this morning.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Devon mum