Upsetting People

[Mumble]

What can you do if you've upset someone to the extent that they won't talk to or communicate with you in any way but you have absolutely no idea what you have done?

 

I've upset someone who's supposed to support me and supposed to understand AS, but instead of guiding me so I can avoid whatever error I've made again in the future she's refusing to respond to any attempts I've made at contact.

 

Now I've got to talk to my supervisor next week about this - and I assume by the way he's written the email to me he knows what I've done - but no-one will tell me and it's really getting to me. I would never ever want to intentionally hurt or upset anyone - quite the opposite, I want to please people. Now I feel totally helpless because I have no communication, no idea what I've done, and nearly a week to wait until I find out, during which I am and will continue to worry extensively.

 

Is it usual for people not to say you've upset them? Are you supposed to guess? How?

[pearl]

Mumble <'>

I am in the same situation with my SIL. She speaks to me (just) but we havent had an invite to their house in 13 years. And I have no idea why. And if I asked, all hell would break loose, cos thats the kind of family we are.

 

Some peeps really are that childish, & if they wont tell you whats upset them, then that is their problem, not yours. But it doesnt really solve anything, as I know from my own family. And the fact that they are supposed to be supporting you yet are putting you through this anxiety, is disgraceful.

 

I'd guess the key to this is your supervisor, if he can explain what has happened without breaking confidentiality. Hope you get something sorted.

[bid]

Hi Mumble,

 

Sorry to hear about this. Can I try and help?? But I don't want to make you feel worse or anything

 

In my experience, us peeps with AS can sometimes say or do something with no real intention of upsetting or hurting the other person.

 

BUT, and this is the part that can be difficult to get a grip on...nevertheless, what we have said or done can genuinely have upset or hurt that other person.

 

What matters is how we then respond to that person's unhappiness.

 

IMHO, I think we need to try hard to understand the fact that what we have said or done has caused (unintentional) upset or hurt. Even though it was uninmtentional, the upset or hurt experienced by the other person is entirely valid.

 

SO, in my experience, if you don't acknowledge the validity of their unhappiness, this causes more problems than the original comment or deed because it makes them feel that you have little respect for them as a person.

 

IME, if you can actively listen to why they are unhappy, acknowledge and apologise for the hurt, you can then say that it was completely unintentional.

 

In my experience, the worst thing to do is to say that you haven't done anything, or that what you have said or done isn't hurtful or nothing to get upset about. This effectively dismisses them as a person.

 

TO RECAP...I think the best thing to do when you find out what has happened is to acknowledge their hurt, apologise for causing it, and explain it was unintentional.

 

Anyway, this is my take on the situation as another person with AS, hope this might help, and I also hope I haven't upset you more as that wasn't my intention!!

 

Bid <'>

Edited February 1, 2008 by bid

[Guest Lya of the Nox]

i upset peeps sometimes, and worry that i have when i haven't

i try so hard not to

but it happens,

those who care about me know i do this, and live with it

if this is your mentor we are talking about then she needed to go away and learn more about AS and understand

if she cannot forgive unintentional hurt then she in wrong job

but what bid says too

x

[Mumble]

BUT, and this is the part that can be difficult to get a grip on...nevertheless, what we have said or done can genuinely have upset or hurt that other person.

I totally agree. And I want to know what I've done so I can begin to sort it - by understanding, I can make sure I never do it again. The thing is I have absolutely no idea at all what I have done (which in turn worries me because I may do it to other people without knowing there's something really really wrong with it). I had assumed when the person concerned stopped contacting me last term that she was off work sick. Now it transpires there's a whole lot more to it. The thing is, she won't respond to any of my contact at all, so I can't begin to make amends. I just wish someone would say to me, this is what you've done Mumble, this is why (if not obvious) it's caused upset. Then I can do something. Right now I feel totally helpless when I want to make amends and I'm very worried about what's going to be said.

 

I think it's the fact that I haven't got a clue about what I've done that's really upsetting me. It's this person's job to support me with AS related issues but she's not doing that job because of whatever terrible thing I've done - so it leaves me in a state of not knowing and of not having necessary support.

[Mumble]

Lya - it's not my mentor. I 'disposed' of her long ago for being an incompetent <<rude word>>.

 

It's actually more serious - and I'm stressing on all sorts of levels now because things seemed to be going better and now it's all falling apart again, but this time I appear to be responsible, without knowing how.

[pearl]

If you do your best to find out, but she won't communicate, then you just have to let it go, as it then becomes their responsibility. Its infuriating, & you don't get closure, but life is like that sometimes. Hopefully you WILL find out, then you can do your best to put it right.

[oxgirl]

Mumble, are you sure that it's about you? I mean, is it possible that this person could have had a personal crisis or something which keeps her away from work and out of contact. Have you still seen her around or is it just that she isn't responding to your phone calls, is it possible that she might have had to go away unexpectedly or something like that and hasn't received your messages?

 

~ Mel ~

[marmalade]

Mumble is there not a third party that you can turn to and ask this person what it is that you have allegedly done to them?

 

If they find it impossible to talk to you, which seems daft to say the least, then maybe they would feel able to explain it to a mutual acquaintance or something.

 

I really do hope that you get this resolved as there is nothing worse than feeling worried about something that you can't seem able to solve..... <'>

[baddad]

Hi mumble

 

You said you think your supervisor knows what the problem is, but that your appointment isn't for another week.

Seems reasonable in the meantime to ask him, so you can start to work on some fence mending strategies to run by him next week.

 

Hope that helps

 

L&P

 

BD

[Mumble]

Mumble, are you sure that it's about you? I mean, is it possible that this person could have had a personal crisis or something which keeps her away from work and out of contact. Have you still seen her around or is it just that she isn't responding to your phone calls, is it possible that she might have had to go away unexpectedly or something like that and hasn't received your messages?

That's what I thought the issue was. I was getting worried because I need this person's help with getting my accomodation forms in for July onwards (else I'm kinda homeless) hence I asked my supervisor if he knew where she was/if she was sick (she's in a different building to me so I wouldn't expect to see her - just have email contact), which is where it transpired that I've done/said 'something' that I need to talk about with my sup.

 

Seems reasonable in the meantime to ask him, so you can start to work on some fence mending strategies to run by him next week.

That's what I was wondering. I wasn't sure if it would be considered pushy? He's a good bloke though (does that make him a GB not an OGB? ) so I think he would understand that this has got me really worried. I'm always a bit worried with him however that he seems to have had to take on responsibility for AS related issues, when really there should be a line between these and the academic ones he is responsible for.

[pearl]

I don't think it would do any harm to ask him, as he knows you well enough to know how much you would worry in the meantime.

 

GB/OGB. Hmmm. I reckon if just you thinks he's a good bloke then he's a GB. If more than one person agrees with you then he can be promoted to OGB status

 

We really should have a formal title for Official Good Women too.

[bid]

Had to rush off for the school run!

 

I've got a brilliant Line Manager at work, and I've been watching her closely to see how she deals with staff problems, as this helps me in my job as a Team Leader.

 

I think you need to ask your Sup what you have done/said before the meeting next week, and explain how anxious this whole situation is making you feel.

 

From my Line Manager and from some counselling I've had, it has confirmed for me that all of us, NT/AS/whatever, have a fundamental need to feel actively listened to by others, and that our feelings are acknowledged and accorded validity. When people think their feelings are being dismissed, then they can become withdrawn/defensive/aggressive depending on their personality. This may explain her silence? I know for myself that when I feel hurt or upset, often my head is full of feelings, but I literally can't speak as it's as though there is a physical block in my throat...and of course the longer it goes on, the harder it is to begin (it isn't sulking or a stoney silence, I genuinely can't talk).

 

When you find out what you have said/done, I would say something along the lines of...

 

'I can see xxxxxxxxx has really upset you. I'm so sorry this has happened. I would never have intentionally said/done anything to upset you because I really appreciate everything you do for me in your role as xxx. It seems to have been a misunderstanding/break down in communication/insert reason of your choice...'

 

The majority of the time, this sort of approach diffuses the situation, and often the other person will admit that maybe they were over-sensitive or over-reacted, etc. If they carry on, you have the moral high ground of having been reasonable, conciliatory and in the right

 

Really hope you get this sorted out asap.

 

One last thing, and I really hope this doesn't offend, as I don't mean it like that at all. Some peeps here have said she should have a better understanding of AS if she is meant to be supporting you. I don't think it will help to sort things out if you go into this with a similar attitude. However good someone's experience and knowledge of AS may be, they also have a right to draw a line for what is acceptable behaviour...I'm not saying for one minute that you have done anything unacceptable, but do you see what I mean?? Just because someone has AS, doesn't mean that all their behaviour has to be accepted by someone else, as ultimately that is actually disabling for the person with AS as it creates an environment where there are no expectations only collusion. I don't know if I have made sense here, and please don't think I am saying you have done anything awful, I'm not...I'm trying to speak more to the peeps who have commented on her attitude to AS??

 

Good luck <'>

 

Bid

Edited February 1, 2008 by bid

[Mumble]

One last thing, and I really hope this doesn't offend, as I don't mean it like that at all. Some peeps here have said she should have a better understanding of AS if she is meant to be supporting you. I don't think it will help to sort things out if you go into this with a similar attitude. However good someone's experience and knowledge of AS may be, they also have a right to draw a line for what is acceptable behaviour...I'm not saying for one minute that you have done anything unacceptable, but do you see what I mean?? Just because someone has AS, doesn't mean that all their behaviour has to be accepted by someone else, as ultimately that is actually disabling for the person with AS as it creates an environment where there are no expectations only collusion. I don't know if I have made sense here, and please don't think I am saying you have done anything awful, I'm not...I'm trying to speak more to the peeps who have commented on her attitude to AS??

I agree I think there's a certain bit though that does still think that I'd hope she would realise that I hadn't understood whatever I've done, possibly as an AS issue, and help me to address it. So not excuse but understand and help me make sure it doesn't happen again. I wouldn't want whatever I've done to be excused if it's wrong, but I do want to understand what it is and why it's wrong, because I'm terrified that I'm going round doing the same to other people without realising it

 

I'm going to email my sup and ask for some clarification. I think.

[bid]

Just had another thought...

 

Are you sure you have upset her...it isn't that she is worried that she might have upset you??

 

Bid

[pearl]

Yes I see what you are saying bid, however if JP upsets me I'd never do the silent thing on him as it would just confuse him. I have to tell him clearly why I am upset, & if I choose not to do so then I should let it go & not take it out on him by sulking.

 

Someone who works with AS peeps should realise this, IMO. Its not about making "allowances" for AS peeps, its about being clear about feelings.

[Guest Lya of the Nox]

that i think pearl was what i meant to say that if she is a pro, she should know that there are gonna be communication issues

for the record if meggz upsets me she knows

[bid]

Sorry, guys, I've probably over-analysed everything here!

 

Bid

[CarolJ]

Sorry, guys, I've probably over-analysed everything here!

 

Bid

 

Still sniffing the pritt stick I see bid,

 

How the devil r u dahling?

 

-----------------------

 

the words "life is too short" and "you cant please all the people all the time" spring to mind.

 

I gave up on social waffling along time a go. I have adopted autie traits by virtue of my babies. I gave up on a lot of people friends and family who couldnt accept the way my son is now autistic. Life is so much simpler.

 

I know I upset people cos I am NT but tough. When it comes down to my kids welfare and happiness and other peoples hurt feelings, theres no competition.

 

I now live by the following rule.

 

" Me, I like to call a spade a spade. I'm not particularly outspoken, I just think it's confusing to use any other term for it."

Edited February 1, 2008 by CarolJ

[Mumble]

Well.......

 

I asked Mr Sup (GB) and it seems that I've mis/over interpreted him and he doesn't know what I've done. Doesn't make it any clearer how to make things right and I'm not sure if this makes the situation easier or worse. If no-one knows what I've done and the person I've done whatever I've done too won't communicate I'm really stuck.

 

I suppose at least I'm not worrying about being told off next week and maybe together we can make a plan of action to take things forward. And in the meantime I'll try to talk/communicate with as few people as possible do I can't repeat whatever awful thing I've done.

[llisa32]

Hiya - I really doubt that you've done anything 'awful' at all.

 

I know she's not been that much help thus far, and it may simply be that she does not know how best to help you and wants to get a meeting to discuss that.

 

After the many discussions we've had concerning said person I really cannot think of a single instance where you could have been interpreted as being offensive, or upsetting.

 

And if good guy doesn't know either then it really cannot be anything worth over worrying about

 

And point to remember is that you have cc'd both your tut and sup on (as far as I know) practically all your comms with said person - if you'd said anything untoward I'm sure one of them would have told you at the time. <'>

[Mumble]

And point to remember is that you have cc'd both your tut and sup on (as far as I know) practically all your comms with said person - if you'd said anything untoward I'm sure one of them would have told you at the time. <'>

That is a very good point

[Canopus]

I have this problem as well. I often inadvertently upset people and sometimes only find out weeks or months later via some rumour on the grapevine. Sometimes people I upset won't accept my apologies even if I explain that either they or I misinterpreted or misunderstood something at the time. Even worse are those who steadfastly refuse to discuss the issue with me to make good any problems and say things like "I will not enter into dialogue". The very worst of all, are those that keep quiet and give me the cold shoulder so I don't realise I have upset them until some time in the future.

 

Sometimes I feel that my life has produced a big trail of destruction given the number of people I have inadvertently upset.

[bid]

Sometimes I feel that my life has produced a big trail of destruction given the number of people I have inadvertently upset.

 

<'>

 

Bid

[Bard]

I have this problem as well. I often inadvertently upset people and sometimes only find out weeks or months later via some rumour on the grapevine. Sometimes people I upset won't accept my apologies even if I explain that either they or I misinterpreted or misunderstood something at the time. Even worse are those who steadfastly refuse to discuss the issue with me to make good any problems and say things like "I will not enter into dialogue". The very worst of all, are those that keep quiet and give me the cold shoulder so I don't realise I have upset them until some time in the future.

 

Sometimes I feel that my life has produced a big trail of destruction given the number of people I have inadvertently upset.

 

I'm talking about NTs now, not ASDs. NTs who have been upset or distressed by the actions of another, and won't say why or what or how.

That's their choice. No one is telepathic and many people can't pick up on subtle signs of irritation or distress. If all the 'victim' chooses to do is sulk, ignore or be cryptic then maybe they don't want clarity and resolution. Perhaps they wish to wallow in misery and cuddle their grudges.

Working in a profession that is mainly female, we get a lot of that sort of behaviour and it's annoying and pointless. If someone wants to know what they did wrong, then what is to be gained or learnt by not telling them? In writing, through a third party, whatever way gets the message across.

My insensitive NT brother has been happily married for years to a lovely woman after he had a string of less successful relationships. When he's done something thoughtless or hurtful, she shouts at him whilst sticking to the point, waves her arms around and gets red in the face and has been known to throw objects at him.

All his learning needs are met, Visual, Auditory and Kinaesthetic. And then he knows what he's done and decides what he should do next in an atmosphere of clarity and openness.

Most of us leave some destruction in our wake Canopus, but some of it was caused by the people who wouldn't help themselves or us by explaining anything.

[Flora]

I like the way this discussion is going.

 

I totally agree with what bard said. There is absolutely nothing to be gained for anyone by sulking and giving someone the silent treatment. It's childish and counterproductive. Obviously there are situations which could arrise when someone has deeply hurt another person and it takes time (some times never) for that person to move on. However, in this case with mumble, this woman is supposed to be working with her in a professional capacity so she's not doing anyone any favours by being silent about it. She should either discuss this properly with mumble, or she should find someone else to do the job.

 

I can't stand subterfuge and people bristling around full of hurt indiginant silence; it's very off putting and just puts them in a bad light.

 

I'm all for people speaking their minds. Yes it sometimes can cause fireworks, but at least everyone knows exactly where they stand, rather than someone causing atmospheric vibrations and harbouring simmering resentment.

 

Flozza

[Mumble]

When he's done something thoughtless or hurtful, she shouts at him whilst sticking to the point, waves her arms around and gets red in the face and has been known to throw objects at him.

I hope you're not suggesting I copy this behaviour? Actually, on second thoughts, throwing things does sound fun, and the resultant mess could go in the Tate Modern (yes it's the same woman I was thinking of another art installation for ...)

[Mumble]

I'm all for people speaking their minds.

Really????? :whistle: :devil:

[Flora]

Really????? :whistle: :devil:

 

 

I know you'll find it hard to believe but it's true!!

 

[Bard]

I hope you're not suggesting I copy this behaviour?

Not unless you marry my brother. Wouldn't it have been clearer if she'd stomped up to you and yelled? Or written a rude email?

 

Actually, on second thoughts, throwing things does sound fun, and the resultant mess could go in the Tate Modern (yes it's the same woman I was thinking of another art installation for ...)

 

THE SAME WOMAN?

Why are you worried about having upset her? I'm on my way with a hacksaw, a helium canister and some silver and blue balloons. How can you have forgotten our imaginative plan?

If we'd carried it out then she'd be ART instead of still being around to confuse you.

[Canopus]

I'm talking about NTs now, not ASDs. NTs who have been upset or distressed by the actions of another, and won't say why or what or how.,

 

I think that most of the people I have inadvertently upset are NT rather than ASD.

 

That's their choice. No one is telepathic and many people can't pick up on subtle signs of irritation or distress. If all the 'victim' chooses to do is sulk, ignore or be cryptic then maybe they don't want clarity and resolution. Perhaps they wish to wallow in misery and cuddle their grudges.

 

I have wondered if this is the result of some etiquette or culture that some people follow but not others. British culture has etiquette like concealing your emotions and not making a fuss in public, and I'm wondering whether the refusing to discuss matters or the keeping silent approach are extensions of this etiquette.

 

Working in a profession that is mainly female, we get a lot of that sort of behaviour and it's annoying and pointless. If someone wants to know what they did wrong, then what is to be gained or learnt by not telling them? In writing, through a third party, whatever way gets the message across.

 

I can second this that women are more likely than men to adopt the keeping silent approach.

[pearl]

My insensitive NT brother has been happily married for years to a lovely woman after he had a string of less successful relationships. When he's done something thoughtless or hurtful, she shouts at him whilst sticking to the point, waves her arms around and gets red in the face and has been known to throw objects at him.

All his learning needs are met, Visual, Auditory and Kinaesthetic. And then he knows what he's done and decides what he should do next in an atmosphere of clarity and openness.

 

Oh bard that did make me laugh, you have just described me & mr p! I'll remember that Visual, Auditory, Kinaesthic thing when we have our next row!

[CarolJ]

I think that most of the people I have inadvertently upset are NT rather than ASD.

 

 

 

I have wondered if this is the result of some etiquette or culture that some people follow but not others. British culture has etiquette like concealing your emotions and not making a fuss in public, and I'm wondering whether the refusing to discuss matters or the keeping silent approach are extensions of this etiquette.

 

 

 

I can second this that women are more likely than men to adopt the keeping silent approach.

 

I have to agree here. I myself have adopted a no-nonsense approach to others its purely that I lost my NT social nicely with sugar on top beat about the bush approach and adopted a direct outspoken and straight to the point approach.

 

It saves time and if I upset people then tough. When I did it the NT way I found I was the one who invariably felt as if I wasnt getting anywhere and it allowed others to delay and ignore me. Eventually I realised that given the choice between myself and my kids being upset and others, well there really was no competition.

 

I do apologise for for my blunt approach but its usually before I make my point so I prepare them.

 

My partner is on the spectrum and he has shown me how confusing he finds social chit chat and indirect social interraction. Hes always upsetting me and others and I have to tell him that he has. Now he doesnt mind but the confused look on his face is priceless

[Mumble]

I'll remember that ... Kinaesthic thing when we have our next row!

Oops - see what you've done now Bard? Aiding and abetting husband-basherising

[CarolJ]

Is it usual for people not to say you've upset them? Are you supposed to guess? How?

 

Yes its the NT way rather childish and petty i know many prefer to to seethe in silence and martydom and can get spiteful without you knowing why. As an NT with adopted Autie traits I know exactly when I am upsetting people.

 

What can you do if you've upset someone to the extent that they won't talk to or communicate with you in any way but you have absolutely no idea what you have done?

 

I've upset someone who's supposed to support me and supposed to understand AS, but instead of guiding me so I can avoid whatever error I've made again in the future she's refusing to respond to any attempts I've made at contact.

 

Well i think your last paragraph tells me that this person doesnt understand AS and how it affects people. If she refuses to accept your explanation and is ignoring her role as your support then thats highly unprofessional. One of the best ways I find to truely communicate with people is through writing. an email, a letter a card sometimes people listen to the written word more than the spoken because written words arent so emotional.

 

Try putting your case down in writing and if she still sulks then thats her problem not yours.... good luck.

[CarolJ]

One last thing, and I really hope this doesn't offend, as I don't mean it like that at all. Some peeps here have said she should have a better understanding of AS if she is meant to be supporting you. I don't think it will help to sort things out if you go into this with a similar attitude. However good someone's experience and knowledge of AS may be, they also have a right to draw a line for what is acceptable behaviour...I'm not saying for one minute that you have done anything unacceptable, but do you see what I mean?? Just because someone has AS, doesn't mean that all their behaviour has to be accepted by someone else, as ultimately that is actually disabling for the person with AS as it creates an environment where there are no expectations only collusion. I don't know if I have made sense here, and please don't think I am saying you have done anything awful, I'm not...I'm trying to speak more to the peeps who have commented on her attitude to AS??

 

Good luck <'>

 

Bid

 

Wise words bid but at the same time my experience of AS, especially with my now AS fella, is that I explain to him how his words made me feel. Unless someone explains this he will carry on his merry way and if they react with upset and anger (which is how I first reacted before I realised it was because of his AS) my aggression would trigger defensive arguments from him, he then becomes defensive in return because he doesnt know why the person ie me is acting like this. If someone is supposed to be supporting someone with AS surely it also includes explaniing about social faux pars!

[baddad]

Wise words bid but at the same time my experience of AS, especially with my now AS fella, is that I explain to him how his words made me feel. Unless someone explains this he will carry on his merry way and if they react with upset and anger (which is how I first reacted before I realised it was because of his AS) my aggression would trigger defensive arguments from him, he then becomes defensive in return because he doesnt know why the person ie me is acting like this. If someone is supposed to be supporting someone with AS surely it also includes explaniing about social faux pars!

 

Hi carol, while totally agreeing about explaining social faux par etc, I think the point bid was trying to make (and I'm sure she'll put us both right if I'm getting it wrong!) is that it's a matter of how you present that, and that going in 'demanding' understanding is actually going to compound rather than resolve any issues. I also think there's a very real danger that such a strategy can be used as a 'get out of jail free' card (you have to accept what i do because you know I am autistic and are supposed to be supportive of autistic people) which I KNOW mumble is totally against.

I really have problems with assumptions that behaviours of autistic people are all rooted in their autism. To do so denies their fundamental humanity. Behaviour arises from some very basic psychological drives - usually of the 'I want' nature. How NT's and autistics respond to those drives and learn to make compromises may be very different (or very similar sometimes) but that doesn't detract from the universal nature of the fundamental impulses, or from the individual ability (NT or autistic) to manipulate their environment to achieve those needs.

So I'd agree that someone who is within a support network should make all efforts to help and explain etc, and that's certainly appropriate in the circumstances mumble's outlined, but to assume that someone is being (i.e.) bl00dy minded because they are autistic rather than entertaining the possibility that they could just be being bl00dy minded for exactly the same reasons NT people might be bl00dy minded does nobody any favours. I think the crux here is accepting that the 'supporter' has as much right to have their errors explained too, which the blanket response of 'I am autistic - you are supposed to support' doesn't allow for.

 

Hope that made sense - pushed for time...

 

COMING BEN....................................

[Mumble]

Just to make things totally clear (as mud, right? - never will get that saying, mud, in all my experience of the stuff, isn't very clear at all) - anyway...

 

All I want (related to this particular situation) is to understand the error/faux par/thingy I have done/said and if not obvious to understand why I shouldn't have done/said it so that I can avoid doing it again. At the moment I'm really worried about doing the same thing with no awareness I shouldn't do it to others and having others respond in a similar way. Not having too many contacts with people, I can't really afford to be cutting them off.

 

As far as the woman concerned being in disability support, I think she needs to understand or be open to a discussion that I may, as part of my AS, commit social blunders without realising them. I'm not saying she should think this is OK because I'm AS (absolutly not - that puts me in the same position as above of doing it and not realising), BUT, I do think she has some responsibility to guide me through what I've done, to help me understand why it has caused the hurt is has and to help me alliviate my anxiety over doing it again. I want to repair whatever damage I've caused and move on, but currently I'm in a situation where this is being made impossible and I am very anxious.

[CarolJ]

I think the crux here is accepting that the 'supporter' has as much right to have their errors explained too, which the blanket response of 'I am autistic - you are supposed to support' doesn't allow for.

 

Hope that made sense - pushed for time...

 

COMING BEN....................................

 

Hi BD I kinda that that was exactly what I was trying to say. Just because my partner has AS doestn give him the excuse to ride roughshod over my feelings. If I know hes done something as a result of his AS I calmly explain to him how i feel and why I feel when he says or does something to upset me. He then takes this into account if a similar situation rises. I get the right to voice my hurt and anger and upset but in a constructive manner not a personal attack. And then I allow him to apologise (he struggled with this at first becasuse he said why should I apologise for being me?) I adopt the same approach with my kids too. I wont allow DD to use her ASD as an excuse which she has tried to do and avoiding responsibility for her actions.

 

My DS well i know he takes the P*ss and I wont allow him to get away with stuff when I know he knows better.

 

Mumble, you wont know what you did unless you ask and are answered honestly. Try putting it in writing all these discussions are probably confusing the issue I know it does me.

 

Write a letter or note this person, saying something along the lines of.

 

To

 

As you are aware, one of the areas people with AS have is social interraction. Your recent actions towards me seem to indicate that I have upset you. As someone with AS I am not always aware that I do this. If I have upset you then I offer you my sincere apologies. I was truly not aware of any hurt that I caused. Please can you tell me what I did/said to upset you, as unless I am told, I cannot hope to avoid the same mistake again in the future. At the moment I'm really worried about doing the repeating this action without being aware that I shouldn't do it to others and having others respond in a similar way. Not having too many contacts with people, I can't really afford to be cutting them off.

 

You are my assigned disability support, and as such I would hope that you are aware of the possibility that I may, as part of my AS, commit social blunders without realising them. I'm not saying this is OK or an excuse because I'm AS (but unless I am made aware of what I do wrong- it being explained in a constructive way without personal feelings - it places me at a distinct disadvantage.

 

I sincerely hope you will forgive my actions and assume the role of mentor and explain what I've done, to help me understand why it has caused the hurt is has and to help me alliviate my anxiety over doing it again. I want to repair whatever damage I've caused and move on, but currently I'm in a situation where this is being made impossible and I am very anxious. sad.gif

 

Yours

 

Mumble a heartfelt apology goes a long way and its much easier if its done in writing. Perhaps you can buy her a little Im sorry gift or "card". We all make mistakes now and then, even us NTs. But its up to those who know about your AS to try and help you as much as possible not judge you or take it personally. Its perfectly clear that you are really upset by this. I am sure if this lady knew this shed feel differently.

 

Hope this helps

 

p.s. just correct my dreadful spelling ...

Edited February 3, 2008 by CarolJ

[bid]

I have to agree here. I myself have adopted a no-nonsense approach to others its purely that I lost my NT social nicely with sugar on top beat about the bush approach and adopted a direct outspoken and straight to the point approach.

 

It saves time and if I upset people then tough. When I did it the NT way I found I was the one who invariably felt as if I wasnt getting anywhere and it allowed others to delay and ignore me. Eventually I realised that given the choice between myself and my kids being upset and others, well there really was no competition.

 

I do apologise for for my blunt approach but its usually before I make my point so I prepare them.

 

My partner is on the spectrum and he has shown me how confusing he finds social chit chat and indirect social interraction. Hes always upsetting me and others and I have to tell him that he has. Now he doesnt mind but the confused look on his face is priceless

 

Ooooh, Carol...you won't know, but I was dx'd with AS last summer!!

 

BD...ta for extrapolating my original point. May need your assistance to unravel what I'm further about to ramble

 

OK, this is going to be diffcult to explain what I mean, but I'm going to try (BD on stand-by, I hope!).

 

First of all, Mumbley: I really hope this all turns out to be 'something and nothing', but if not I hope she explains whatever you have done/said, accepts that you did it inadvertantly, and most importantly gives you some ideas/strategies for hopefully not doing it again! <'> <'>

 

Carol, I agree to a certain point that as advocates for our children we have to stop worrying about 'upsetting people' so that we can get then the provision they deserve.

 

BUT,BUT,BUT...I think that there is a very real danger that if this comes across as 'aggressive' rather than 'assertive', this doesn't help our kids and can even end up in some really awful situations.

 

Now, for the burbley bit!! Now that I'm working, and I think the same is true for Mumble in her academic world (tell me if I'm wrong, M ), I want and need support for my AS. But not 'support' that ultimately disempowers me by reducing me to a position where there are no expectations that I can function and compete on a level with the NT world.

 

In other words, I would rather be given strategies, behaviour I can model and explanations I can understand rather than an attitude that says 'well, everyone else needs to understand AS and make allowances accordingly'.

 

This won't help me at all, actually. What does help me, both to compete and to 'grow' in ability and confidence, is to have good, effective 'NT' communication skills explained (even if the explanation is ultimately, sorry, it's illogical, but you just have to accept that's how the NT world functions) and most importantly presented so that I can then model them in my own interaction with the people I work with.

 

I am lucky in that I have a fantastic line manager, and I am getting better at being a team leader because I consciously think all the time 'How would X deal with this', when I'm having to sort out staff problems, etc, and I model my behaviour and how I say things on her (grammar left the building, sorry!).

 

I know that some people with AS, and people who support them, parents, etc, feel strongly that we spectrum peeps 'shouldn't have to do this', it should be the NT world that changes to accommodate us. To a degree, I think this is true, the attitude to ASD does need to change, but not to one where disabling collusion replaces true support and acceptance. After all, parents struggle with toileting, because for their child to be able to 'conform' to NT expectations as far as this goes, is actually more empowering for them, even if it goes against their innate autistic imperative.

 

Phew, don't know if any of this makes sense, and as ever, it's only my opinion/experience as an autistic person who feels they are finally getting somewhere in the NT world after 40 odd years of largely failing.

 

Bid

Edited February 3, 2008 by bid