Annea Report post Posted February 21, 2008 HI everyone.... I have been reading Elefans post about wanting to get her little one into a certains chool which is apparently full, and have read the replies with interest regarding levels of fullness. Our problem is a little different and wonder if anyone can help out a bit... We are at the moment awaiting a 3 day assessment at an independant priory school as we feel this is the only viable option for our daughter. In school the bits she struggles with are the sensory stuff, she can't cope with the movement around the school, the noise of the classes even the lighting. She is bullied badly, and all attempts at tweaking her IEP come to a dead end as she can't cope with the changes the school impose on her, it just causes extra stress where she is only just managing. She has no social life at the school, as all her breaks they encourage her to stay in because she can't cope with the crowds... (surely she has a right to be able to go out and get some fresh air- whilst not compromising her sanity?) Therefore we feel the only option would be to get her into a much smaller school which is totally set up for children like her. NOW, the LEA have told me that they feel she should be able to access mainstream education, and have told me of two schools in particualr they would want her to attend. We have visited one which has an A/S sattelite unit. This has reasons that would make it innapropriate for her to go to because frstly 70% of a childs lessons are int he mainstream bit of the school and the school is even bigger than where she is now, it is also much larger, so more movement etc <all the things she can't cope with> They have told us they are FULL, we asked about 'levels of fullness' and they said that based on the square footage of the unit, they were at maximum capacity... ie no room for extra staff or children. They say she will not get in the unit! The second school has no A/S unit but apparently has excellent pastoral care. We can't even get a visit to this school because the SENCO tells us that after speaking to the deputy , they are full and they have no room for her. This school is also bigger again than the other school, about 500 more pupils etc etc, so we feel that she will still have the same prolems should she move to either of these schools... What are the LEA likely to do? are they likely to insist that the school take her or will they look around for another school and build evidence to make my daughter fit the criterior? I was told that we have to nominate a school that can definately take her or the panel will not take the appeal case, is this the case? Does this also apply to the LEA, do they have to offer alternatives that can definitely take her? We are going use independant specialists to build a case around dd's need for specialist placement, but how other than asking directly can I find out what the LEA is likely to propose? I presume the inc officer has not done her homework as yet as she is not yet aware that both of her choice schools are full, but she is bound to find out. If anyone can help I would be very grateful..... DEEDEE.. you mentioned a human rights law regarding "having a family life " (seems like a luxury to me) Can I ask where you found this information, I would be very interested in whether or not our kids have 'the right' to be able to play in a non damaging atmosphere.... Can you or anyone help point me in the right direction? Thanks again.... Anne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deedee Report post Posted February 21, 2008 Hi Annea I printed it off give me a bit of time and I'll find it its in my file *its just rather a BIG file lol*...I'm sure its got the whole quote in there.. Sounds like a nightmare you're going through too I'm so sorry <'> I'm wondering too what will happen if everywhere is full the LEA want..(with us I'm hoping that IS the case as we want independents too)I'm pretty sure they have to find somewhere?? Keeping my fingers crossed you are able to get the Priory School, theres one I got the info on and spoke to the head who sounded lovely!! M is hopeless at travelling and sadly its too far away for us to consider,but the way things are going we may even have to move to get him somewhere suitable..His main issues are the sensory stuff too and he's also being kept in at break etc.. Right I'll go and have a look now for that quote back soon! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cariad Report post Posted February 21, 2008 I had a similar kind of thing with my son, they wanted him to go into a MLD class in a HUGE high school with no ASD support, he was already struggling in a special unit in a small primary school with no ASD training! In the end I went to tribunal found the perfect school and everyone even the LEA agreed it was the best one and it was full, we even had a speaker phone at the tribunal and pleaded with the HM to let him in. I just cried after almost �5,000 being spend on independent Ed psychologists and SALT reports and representation, it was heartbreaking. If I were you I'd look everywhere for a suitable school just incase you can't force the full school to take your DD with a tribunal. Try to work with the LEA (if thats possible but sometimes they can be the enemy), I would say to call in an Ed Psych to visit these schools to fight your case. At the end of the day it is the LEA's job to find your DD a school place, we hit lucky and the LEA did find a very good school for our son, at cost to them though! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deedee Report post Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/005.htm Here's the treaty and its part 8 which states Article 8 ? Right to respect for private and family life Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. I also got a whole load of stuff from a parliament study.It was done through the department of education and skills and many proffessionals submitted their memorandums about SEN...There are submissions from NAS,Treehouse,Autism Bedfordshire etc etc and I went through them all highlighting what they said about education for pupils with Autism..took me a while and I'm lucky I get printing ink cheap http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/c...478/478we01.htm Edited February 21, 2008 by Deedee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annea Report post Posted February 21, 2008 I had a similar kind of thing with my son, they wanted him to go into a MLD class in a HUGE high school with no ASD support, he was already struggling in a special unit in a small primary school with no ASD training! In the end I went to tribunal found the perfect school and everyone even the LEA agreed it was the best one and it was full, we even had a speaker phone at the tribunal and pleaded with the HM to let him in. I just cried after almost �5,000 being spend on independent Ed psychologists and SALT reports and representation, it was heartbreaking. If I were you I'd look everywhere for a suitable school just incase you can't force the full school to take your DD with a tribunal. Try to work with the LEA (if thats possible but sometimes they can be the enemy), I would say to call in an Ed Psych to visit these schools to fight your case. At the end of the day it is the LEA's job to find your DD a school place, we hit lucky and the LEA did find a very good school for our son, at cost to them though! Hi Cariad, the school we want is NOT full, but it is an independant.... It ;s the LEA's choices that are full...... I wanted to know if the LEA can force a school to take over their numbers.... I am positive my daughter won't cope in MS any longer, she is becoming more and more depressed and anxious. The LEA don't want my daughter to go independent purely because of the cost considerations <although they won't admit this> Thanks everyone for you imput and thanks DEEDEE for your info... I have just found this website too its the Convention of the rights for the child and clearly states the childs right to Play and socialise as well as some other things that are very pertinent to out children. http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/k2crc.htm hope it is of help to you. Anne x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bid Report post Posted February 21, 2008 My DS went to a Priory school. We were lucky that we got funding without a fight, but I do remember the school saying that they supported parents with going to tribunal. Good luck! Bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kazzen161 Report post Posted February 21, 2008 The LEA have to name a school in Part 4 in order for you to go to Tribunal against that. I was in the situation that the LEA could not find a school (they were either full or not suitable) to name in Part 4 (and they tried lots!). I found an independent school that was suitable, but could not go to Tribunal as the LEA could not name a school. I am sure they were trying to drag things out as long as possible so there was no longer a place at the school I wanted. I had to ask my MP to intervene in the end. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annea Report post Posted February 21, 2008 The LEA have named a school in part 4 of her statement, it is where she is now. The same school that we won a dissability discrimination claim against, and the same school that the chair of governors said that 'disabled children should be grateful for what they get- and yes I dohave that in writing!> As we appealing part 4 I know we appealing against that school but I also thought that the LEA are likely to fight by recommending alternative MS schools. The two of which we have laready investigated ourselves and are full. Can anyone clarify further about the process by which the LEA will try to fight us getting our specialist placement? thanks again Anne x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bid Report post Posted February 21, 2008 Can anyone clarify further about the process by which the LEA will try to fight us getting our specialist placement? thanks again Anne x They will basically try to prove that one of their LEA schools can meet the provision as laid out in her Statement. You have to prove that none of their schools can do this. We were helped by the fact that both my DS' consultants put in writing that he needed a residential special school, and why. (Having said that, my DS' Statement laid out provision that was impossible for a MS school to provide.) HTH Bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annea Report post Posted February 22, 2008 Thanks Bid, as always... Anne x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cariad Report post Posted February 22, 2008 They will basically try to prove that one of their LEA schools can meet the provision as laid out in her Statement. You have to prove that none of their schools can do this. We were helped by the fact that both my DS' consultants put in writing that he needed a residential special school, and why. (Having said that, my DS' Statement laid out provision that was impossible for a MS school to provide.) HTH Bid Yes I second that Bid, sorry Annea I got a bit confused about the schools. The almighty panel would have the power to make space, the LEA wouldn't even try if it is at cost to them! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kazzen161 Report post Posted February 22, 2008 I thought that once the LEA had named a school, the Tribunal was just about them proving that that school was suitable and you proving that it was not suitable (and proposing your choice). I didn't think that the LEA could then name a different school (why would they, as the school they name must be suitable in their opinion, and have a place). I would check with ipsea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annea Report post Posted February 24, 2008 Thanks Kazzen I will be speaking to IPSEA tomorrow for clarification. Anne x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scrappybunny Report post Posted February 24, 2008 (edited) just wanted to wish you luck getting it sorted. My son was home for several years whilst the LEA 'looked' for a school, they offered very little and were also adamant we had a typical EBD child (so not true). I wanted an ASD specialist and ended up looking for schools myself, arguing with the LEA to send off his paperwork (which they didnt, so I did myself). Finally shortly after one very challenging Annual Review, they did an about turn and agreed with our decision. We had a lot of evidence to support our choice too. Now we have a place at a Priory school and its working out really well. Our statement named a Mainstream school for many years, despite no mainstream school being able to take him, and the LEA were unwilling to change this. At our most recent review, I found that our statement had been amended to mention an EBD school without my knowledge! After this review I'm making sure its correct! Edited February 24, 2008 by scrappybunny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deedee Report post Posted February 24, 2008 Its good to hear so many great reports on the priory schools..I still think we may have to move to get suitable schooling for M I've found a few near Goldalming and I know there's a Priory there too. Annea good luck with Ipsea tomorrow the lady I spoke to was lovely Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annea Report post Posted February 25, 2008 I spoke to IPSEA this morning <someone from the helpline> I was told that we WILL be appealing against the school the LEA have named in section 4 and not any others they suddently decide they want to nominate. However I am waiting a call back from IPSEA to let me know whether they are able to represent me at the next tribunal, apparently this lady is an expert and will give me diffinitive answers!! I was told it is likely the panel will want to know if we have looked at other local provision <which we have> and will need to see expert proof as to why this local provision is not satisfactory and suitable. I will let you all know when I get a more diffinitve answer!! Anne x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deedee Report post Posted February 25, 2008 Thanks for the update Annea that helps me out too (I'm off to see one of their possibles on Thursday..I'll be taking notes!) Glad IPSEA was of help to you and I hope they'll represent you it might take some of the strain off <'> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annea Report post Posted February 26, 2008 If they don't represent me, I will pay for a representative who works both for independent and IPSEA as he was fantastic at our dis disc appeal... he was very professional and really knew his stuff.... I would prefer to get it for free though as we are struggling with the pennies at the moment..... Anne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flora Report post Posted February 29, 2008 Hi Not sure if I've read this thread wrong and misunderstood, but when you go to tribunal for part 4 of the statement you have to be prepared that at any time right up to the hearing itself the LEA can propose a different school that they claim can meet your child's needs. They are allowed to do this if they have good reason to. ie, the evidence in your case statement and any new evidence that comes in, or even just if they have looked at the evidence again and changed their minds. This has just happened to me. I was at tribunal yesterday for parts 2,3 and 4 of the statement and right up until a week or so before the tribunal the LEA changed their case from a mainstream school to one of their own special schools. I had done masses of research into the local provision and hadn't found anything that could my son's needs. However the school they proposed later was one which they said could meet his needs. We were fortunate that I'd had advance warning of this by things said in a mediation meeting back in January. My team then sprung into action and went to visit this school and I went to visit it twice and my son's dad went once. Even though when you lodge your appeal you are appealing against a named school in support of your preferred school it is very important that you are prepared to spring into action when and if the LEA put a completely different school on the table. (incidently the new school the LEA proposed is 'full' but it was obvious that this would NOT be an issue if the panel decide to go with the LEA's choice). Hope this helps, and apolgies if I've got the wrong end of the stick! Flora Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
