Genetics

[kirstie]

Ok, so at the risk of sounding as thick as mince, can someone please explain what this means? The environmental triggers that is?

I am well aware that it it's highly likely the ASD dx of both my sons is most likely genetic but the other bit i don't understand.

Thanks.

[Shnoing]

environmental trigger

The fact that the nicely compartmentalized class society where everyone knew his/her place is gone? Too much fast food? Global warming?

 

Personally, I wouldn't buy into 'environmental trigger'.

[baddad]

Hi kirstie -

 

environmental triggers : things that occur in an environment (rather than something internal - part of the person) that 'triggers' or exacerbates autism...

This can mean several things - imperatives from the 'local' environment like parenting, intervention techniques, expectations etc, or wider environmental factors like vaccines/antibiotics/food additives etc.

In the former case, something like 'expectations'... if the parents of an autistic child blame negative aspects of the childs behaviour on autism it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, because they never take action to overcome the behaviours, on the assumption that they are incurable because they are 'symptoms', rather than anything the child can overcome...

In the latter, something like MMR/Antibiotics/Gluten may possibly 'trigger' or exacerbate an existing predisposition that would maybe have remained dormant/and or less disabling had the environmental trigger not been introduced.

The former goes without saying - absolutely every intervention in autism is based on the assumption that environmental input can effect change... The only time that gets argued against is when anyone suggests that the environment can have a negative effect too, but maybe that's a defensive reaction ...

The second is more complex, but there are many, many parents who believe emphatically that that is the case, and there does seem to be increasing evidence (i.e. from Omega 3 oils, which are 'environmental factors') to back that up.

If you look at MMR for example, all three components (measles virus, mumps virus, rubella virus) have historically been linked to the onset of autism. It doesn't seem too far fetched, then, in that context, that artificially introducing all three simultaneously into a brain at precisely the point that it is undergoing its most significant period of development could be problematic!

 

Hope that helps

 

[rocketgob]

Probably totally off here but I thought it meant things like how you are brought up - sort of lifestyle factors?

 

Ignore me - listen to the others LOL - they know what they are talking about!!

[Tally]

Potentially yes, it could mean things like that as well. It doesn't apply with autism, but this type of thing could be considered an environmental trigger for many other conditions.

[Mumble]

It doesn't apply with autism

Erm, not sure I agree I'm not saying I disagree, just that I can't agree because the scientific evidence isn't there. OK, so the 'Refrigerator Mom' theory has been disproved, but lifestyle factors do influence who a person is and therefore they surely influence who an autistic person is and how their autism impacts on their lives? I'm not saying how you're brought up causes autism, but, as for anyone growing up, your environment influences how every aspect of your character, including autism if this is part of you, manifests itself. And this is what I think triggers are about - not a cause in themselves but something that, as BD says, turns a predisposition into whatever manifestation you see. Therefore, lifestyle is likely to be a genetic trigger in how autism manifests itself. If it weren't, you would expect every autistic adult and child to be the same in whatever environment you put them in, but we know that both over the short and long term, how 'autistic' an individual appears, changes, often depending on how comfortable they are with their environment.

[jb1964]

Hi,

 

I think it's a mixture of everything too -it depends on whether you say environmental factors result in autism - or whether you are saying environmental factors trigger the things that make autism worse.

 

For us personally I would have to say that the environmental trigger is one of the biggest triggers for my daughter to be more 'autistic'. The lifestyle around my daughter, I.e school, home etc.

 

For instance if I constantly had the tv on loud and everyone spoke either loudly or whispering at the same time for instance when my daughter was in the room this would cause her to rock more, to pace more, to flick her fingers more, to get agitated, anxious and probably result in some sort of meltdown - obviously there are loads more triggers I could think of here in both home and school etc.

 

Someone I know has a friend who is the grandparent of a child with aspergers and she worries terrible because the boys parents do not believe he has a problem - that he is simply a naughty disobedient child etc - he is constantly in an anxious state because he does not get help at home - although this revolves around again into more disruptive behaviour and in turn more rows and more anxieties - it is so sad - I would have to say that this boys autism is worse because of that factor - which is environmental.

 

Take care,

Jb

[Tally]

Well yes, upbringing does have an effect on all people, on their personality and level of functioning, whether they have autism or not. I never said it didn't. But it is widely believed that upbringing does not cause autism.

[baddad]

Someone I know has a friend who is the grandparent of a child with aspergers and she worries terrible because the boys parents do not believe he has a problem - that he is simply a naughty disobedient child etc - he is constantly in an anxious state because he does not get help at home - although this revolves around again into more disruptive behaviour and in turn more rows and more anxieties - it is so sad - I would have to say that this boys autism is worse because of that factor - which is environmental.

 

Take care,

Jb

 

Hi JB - Hope you don't mind me asking, but i'm a bit confused by the last bit of your post... surely if the child has a diagnosis of autism the parents would have been instrumental in the process of arriving at that diagnosis? I can't think of a situation where medical professionals could diagnose a child without having the child's problems drawn to their attention by the parents in the first place? Is it that the parents sought the professional input and then disagreed with the findings? Even if that were the case, it seems odd that they would deny the 'symptoms' even if they disagreed with the dx, as the symptoms would have been the very thing that sent them to seek professional help in the first place(?)

Sorry if I've missed something - I'm just trying to get a 'handle' on the situation you described and at the moment it's eluding me!

Having said that, I do believe that more problems arise for autistic children because parents over-compensate than do because of denial, but that's not to say that both can't be equally problematic.

I agree with you that NO child is 'simply' naughty and disobedient - there are always reasons, but it is just as possible for an autistic child to be naughty and disobedient for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with autism as it is for a neurotypical child. Kids is kids, whatever else might be going on!

 

[kirstie]

Oh aye, i agree that kids will be kids and children on the Spectrum can be naughty.

I think, to me it sounds like the parents are either in denial about the dx or are very ill informed or not informed/educated atall. It can be tough knowing in those early days how best to handle certain situations or how to choose your words even can make all the difference. It's not something that will usually come natuarally to a parent/carer who has had no previous experience or knowledge of Autism Spectrum Disorders.

Thanks for the replies on environmental triggers. I had never known quite what that meant. I do now!

I agree that parenting does not cause autism but not doing certain things as a parent to help a child on the spectrum can lead to , well a situation like jb1964 describes.

[baddad]

I think, to me it sounds like the parents are either in denial about the dx or are very ill informed or not informed/educated atall.

I agree that parenting does not cause autism but not doing certain things as a parent to help a child on the spectrum can lead to , well a situation like jb1964 describes.

 

Well, I've got to admit I'm even more confused now, because I really must be missing something in JB's post!

I still don't understand how the child could have got a diagnosis without the parents instigating it (or at the very least acknowledging the need for it), and if that's the case why would they then 'deny' the very things that led them to seek the dx in the first place? I have met parents who seem to be in denial over their children's needs, but never once have I met parents in denial who are actually pushing for diagnosis - the two things seem mutually exclusive to me(?)

Perhaps they thought their child had something else?

 

On the situation JB desribed - yes I do see the potential damage arising from parental denial of a child's disability, but I do think that denial of their abilities is far more common, and that the consequences are potentially far more disabling. Maybe in this regard I'm just a 'glass half full' sort of person, or maybe it's just my freudian slip showing - my 'environmental triggers'... I've just never heard of someone having self esteem issues through being told 'I think you can achieve this' and then achieving it.

 

[bid]

I still don't understand how the child could have got a diagnosis without the parents instigating it (or at the very least acknowledging the need for it), and if that's the case why would they then 'deny' the very things that led them to seek the dx in the first place? I have met parents who seem to be in denial over their children's needs, but never once have I met parents in denial who are actually pushing for diagnosis - the two things seem mutually exclusive to me(?)

Perhaps they thought their child had something else?

 

BD, both Jester and I have come across this situation in our respective workplaces. In both instances these were children who had severe problems and were in special placements. In one case the family would not accept an ASD dx. In the other case the family would not accept a dx of epilepsy for cultural reasons.

 

I think this is probably not uncommon: a child can have problems that warrent investigation, but for a whole variety of reasons, parents can then refuse to accept a dx.

 

Bid

[baddad]

BD, both Jester and I have come across this situation in our respective workplaces. In both instances these were children who had severe problems and were in special placements. In one case the family would not accept an ASD dx. In the other case the family would not accept a dx of epilepsy for cultural reasons.

 

I think this is probably not uncommon: a child can have problems that warrent investigation, but for a whole variety of reasons, parents can then refuse to accept a dx.

 

Bid

 

Hi bid - yes, I can appreciate that in specialist placements where other people are able to intercede on the child's behalf, but this isn't (I don't think?) the situation being outlined here...

No point guessing, I suppose - we'll have to wait for JB to clear it up!

 

[bid]

No...certainly the ASD case was in mainstream and has only just joined a specialist placement.

 

I also know of situations where one parent will actively deny a dx.

 

Bid

[jb1964]

No point guessing, I suppose - we'll have to wait for JB to clear it up!

 

Sorry - only just logged on and read these posts - didn't mean to cause a fuss.

 

To be honest this is something I am remote from so I do not know the whole story - other than a friend of mine goes to chapel with the grandmother of the young lad. She's told me that the grandparent is always talking about the lad - and my friend has intimated to me that the parents do not seem educated in helping him and that they are not the type to go to the library/they don't have the internet etc - or have no inclination to do so - although the grandmother is very inquisitive and I've printed off some stuff for my friend to give her. I do not know how his diagnosis came about other than he was diagnosed several years ago following problems at school although the grandparent said that they had been having problems at home for quite some time - and I think he's about 8 or 9 at the moment. I'm therefore assuming the school approached the parents? - but that it simply an assumption.

 

I really can't say anymore than that - sorry if that doesn't clear things up.........

 

Take care,

Jb