Advice regarding girlie etiquette in the playground?

[Bagpuss]

Our eldest DD is 10 (AS) and has become abit tearful tonight regarding playtimes at school.

 

She does have friends and often goes to their houses after school or has them here. Often classmates will call for her too, either to walk to school or to play out after school.

 

However, she said that two particular friends, one of which is one of her closest, are going off by themselves to talk at playtimes and she is beginning to feel left out. She said it had been happening for a long while, but she didn't want to say anything about it. She said she is now "going off" her closest friend due to this, even though she has been at this particular girls house twice for tea in the last fortnight. I'm struggling to get a handle on exactly what is happening, as DD can't read these situations clearly, and I don't know if this is being done deliberately or not.

 

She said when they walk off she tries to go over to them, and says hello. They reply hello and then they walk off again.

 

She said she doesn't attempt to say anything further, because she doesn't know what to say.

 

I asked her if she could maybe try to join in with what they are talking about, but she says she doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

I tried suggesting that maybe she could listen to what they were talking about, after saying hello, and then join in, but she's adamant that they will feel she is eavesdropping.

 

I think she feels that if they wanted to talk to her they would include her, and all she needs to do is say hello, and take it no further.

 

She said she then wanders off and finds other people to play with, and specifically people that are playing a game of some sorts. She seems to get on very well with boys and enjoys joining in their games.

 

I'm at abit of a loss as to what to do to help her I asked her if she'd like to talk to her friends and explain that she was feeling left out, but she doesn't.

 

I've asked her if she'd like me to have a word with her teacher, again it was an absolute no from her.

 

I've also said that maybe if she feels uncomfortable with going over to her friends when they are alone and chatting, she could just find her other friends and do something she is comfortable with, rather than attempting to go over and talk to them. She seemed the happiest with that suggestion.

 

She went on a weeks residential school trip recently, and while we were all waiting in the hall with the other pupils and their parents before the bus arrived, I noticed how the other girls were all in small groups, excitedly chatting about their clothes, their hair, the trip, their bags etc, but DD stood on the sidelines, with DH and I. The girls did make attempts to come over and talk to her, often, but it seemed they had to carry the conversation and DD just didn't get all the girlie chit chat. I didn't get the impression she was deliberately being left out or that they disliked her in anyway, in many ways I think they find her quite uncomplicated.......did get a huge lump in my throat though

 

I do wonder if this is all down to girlies just being girlies, but trying to explain that to DD in a way that she understands is so difficult.

 

Any advice?

[Tally]

Maybe you could help her think of some things to say after "hello." Do they all enjoy a particular TV programme she could ask about? I remember my mum telling me that people love to talk about themselves, so if you ask people questions about themselves, you can have a good conversation without actually needing to speak much. Because your daughter doesn't say anything else, they might think it's her who is not interested in joining in. Trying to take the conversation further would at least shed some light on whether her friends are deliberately trying to exclude her or not. It sounds like they did try to involve her before the school trip, but you don't know how they behave when their parents are not around.

 

If she enjoys playing with the boys, maybe this friendship has run its course. Perhaps if she knew that it was normal and natural for this to happen sometimes, she may feel more comfortable with it. You may find that, as she gets older, she becomes increasingly different from the other girls anyway.

 

Once she gets to secondary school there will be a wider choice of people to choose from. She is more likely to come across someone similar to herself. Most of my friends in school were the "unpopular" people who no one else wanted to hang around with. The friendships did not last because they were not based on anything we actually had in common, but at least they were people I could spend breaktimes with.

 

Not yet having my diagnosis, any help offered tended to focus on the wrong type of advice and people just told me to talk more but never told me what to talk about.

[Bagpuss]

Thanks Tally <'>

 

I did try and suggest she took it further than hello, but she thinks they will feel she is butting in. even though I've explained that they possibly could be waiting for her to say something more.

 

I did wonder if, as she became older, and her friends moved onto things other than pokemon and guinea pigs, she would be left behind somewhat.

[pearl]

<'> Baggy <'> used to get lots of this with S & she's NT. Its hard. Never really figured out how to help except to be a listening ear. Sorry.

[Flora]

Baggy reading your post sent shivers down my spine of memories... not only going through this myself, but when my daughter went through it. It's horrible and really tears you apart inside. It seems you're doing all the right things and keeping an eye on the situation which really is about all you can do.

 

Flora <'>

[Enid]

Its a tricky age! this is where the divide seems to happen to "OUR" kids, they can muddle along when they are younger but as the other children naturally mature ours get left behind in the social stakes, and we have to teach them what comes naturally to others, as you say they dont mean to leave them out, it sort of happens insiduously (sp) I saw it happen to my son at that age, in fact it was when I first realised there might be something more wrong that just been a child who would`nt behave in school! Not much help, just my take on it!! Enid

[Bagpuss]

<'> Baggy <'> used to get lots of this with S & she's NT. Its hard. Never really figured out how to help except to be a listening ear. Sorry.

 

 

Thanks Pearl <'>

[Bagpuss]

Baggy reading your post sent shivers down my spine of memories... not only going through this myself, but when my daughter went through it. It's horrible and really tears you apart inside. It seems you're doing all the right things and keeping an eye on the situation which really is about all you can do.

 

Flora <'>

 

 

Your right Flora, it does tear you apart. I just feel kinda helpless, and that I can't "teach" her about "girliness".....does that make any sense?

 

We have secondary school looming in a year and I'm already feeling jittery

[Flora]

Baggy, my dd is not dx with anything, but she does have a few traits IYKWIM. She really struggled with social stuff when she hit 10... prior to that she wasn't great but she was girly and giggly with her friends but seemed to lose that around the age of 10/11 (puberty??). Anyway, how I dealt with it was to always be there to support her. Many a night I sat up talking to her about strategies etc and finding ways to deal with it. Her main difficulty was that she was painfully shy and just didn't know what to say to other girls to make or keep up a conversation. I started buying her a girly mag on a weekly basis, then she enrolled in a drama group on a Saturday morning to try to 'find her voice' IYKWIM. I also moved her to an all girls school because round about that age the presence of boys make girls very competitive and it didn't help that dd had braces, glasses and spots and went through a very plain stage!

 

When friend ships start going wrong (which seems to happen with girls around the age of 10) it is awful to see and believe me I know how gut wrenching it is... like I said I still get the colliewobbles when I remember my dd going through this. She's nearly 16 now so is more or less beyond that stage and has some good friends now (though there are still the odd spat that she needs to discuss at length with me on occasion!).

 

I will pm you the name of the magazine I used to buy my dd... it covers all sorts of issues and interests applicable to early adolescence, it gave her ideas on what other girls might want to talk about, and also made up for the fact that for about 18 months she had no friends (it was horrible, we'd relocated and she was ostricised and bullied so much at the school she went to and she was so unhappy that's when I moved her to the school she's at now... it took her about 2 years to get over it!). Makes me shudder to remember.

 

Flora XX

[Bagpuss]

Its a tricky age! this is where the divide seems to happen to "OUR" kids, they can muddle along when they are younger but as the other children naturally mature ours get left behind in the social stakes, and we have to teach them what comes naturally to others, as you say they dont mean to leave them out, it sort of happens insiduously (sp) I saw it happen to my son at that age, in fact it was when I first realised there might be something more wrong that just been a child who would`nt behave in school! Not much help, just my take on it!! Enid

 

Thanks Enid. I can understand what you mean. My eldest DD just does not "get" fashion, make up, hair, etc etc, so if her friends are chatting about that she doesn't contribute at all to the conversation. She also struggles with conversations centred around someone else being complained about...ie, friends falling out with other friends and just the general girlie chats that they begin to have at that age. If they move onto something she is interested in, say Pokemon or DS games, then she can contribute, but otherwise, whoosh, straight over her head.

 

I had wondered if girls on the spectrum found this age particularly difficult, in comparison to boys, due to girls being very cliquey etc. What happened with your son?

[Bagpuss]

Baggy, my dd is not dx with anything, but she does have a few traits IYKWIM. She really struggled with social stuff when she hit 10... prior to that she wasn't great but she was girly and giggly with her friends but seemed to lose that around the age of 10/11 (puberty??). Anyway, how I dealt with it was to always be there to support her. Many a night I sat up talking to her about strategies etc and finding ways to deal with it. Her main difficulty was that she was painfully shy and just didn't know what to say to other girls to make or keep up a conversation. I started buying her a girly mag on a weekly basis, then she enrolled in a drama group on a Saturday morning to try to 'find her voice' IYKWIM. I also moved her to an all girls school because round about that age the presence of boys make girls very competitive and it didn't help that dd had braces, glasses and spots and went through a very plain stage!

 

When friend ships start going wrong (which seems to happen with girls around the age of 10) it is awful to see and believe me I know how gut wrenching it is... like I said I still get the colliewobbles when I remember my dd going through this. She's nearly 16 now so is more or less beyond that stage and has some good friends now (though there are still the odd spat that she needs to discuss at length with me on occasion!).

 

I will pm you the name of the magazine I used to buy my dd... it covers all sorts of issues and interests applicable to early adolescence, it gave her ideas on what other girls might want to talk about, and also made up for the fact that for about 18 months she had no friends (it was horrible, we'd relocated and she was ostricised and bullied so much at the school she went to and she was so unhappy that's when I moved her to the school she's at now... it took her about 2 years to get over it!). Makes me shudder to remember.

 

Flora XX

 

Flora, I'm sorry to read what your DD went through, that's awful <'>

 

Thanks for the mag idea, I hadn't thought of that She tends to pick animal or pokemon mags when we go out, but maybe if I just buy her a girlie one, and leave it on her bed, she may take a look.

[NobbyNobbs]

it's the age! my 9 year old sister is going through the exact same thing. every day she comes home and tells that someone or other isn't talking to her because they think she's horrible. she has no particular friends so seems to get it from all angles, but also talks about the close-knit friend groups she follows round and how they all fight and change who they're talking to/like. they seem to just go through a phase where they have to test the social rules by being horrible to one person and 'best friends' with another... then they swap, so that's good news for your daughter!

 

will she be friends with boys or are they gross and giggle worthy? boys go through the stage later so they might be a more reliable person for her to try to be around at the moment. that was my tactic anyway. they're also slower to mature so might buy your daughter some more time to continue her interests and grow up.

if i remember correctly we seemed to calm down somewhen in year 6 when the big scary of secondary school loomed and we suddenly needed to be friends with the people going up to the same school as we were.

 

a great story that sort of covers it in a round-about way is sleepovers by jacqueline wilson. although mainly about a secret disabled sister it does also cover the politics of childhood best friends and might be of use in explaining how fickle kids can be.

Edited July 9, 2008 by NobbyNobbs

[Bagpuss]

Thanks NobbyNobbs.

 

Yes, she does get on well with boys. She treats them as she does her "girl" friends, and there is one particular boy who she is very close too, and has been for years. He calls for her every morning for school, and often on evenings too.

 

She also enjoys alot of the games that the boys play in the playground.

 

 

Thanks for the book idea She loves reading, so I'll see if the library has it in.

[justamum]

Unfortunately as her and her friends grow older they will probably become worlds apart with her friends no longer wanting to play games she wants and want to walk around chatting, part of the reasons why my son will not be starting High School this year. He was still playing with Primary 1's and enjoying it so the shock from that to being 'all grown up' would have been too much for him.

[Bagpuss]

Thanks Justamum <'>

[madme]

This did make me feel sad. My Dd 7 (AS) is not quite there yet but I can see this sort of thing happening. I have that book Aspergers and Girls which doesnt cover this in detail but there is a useful chapter on relationships. Youve had some great advice. Good luck

[Enid]

Thanks Enid. I can understand what you mean. My eldest DD just does not "get" fashion, make up, hair, etc etc, so if her friends are chatting about that she doesn't contribute at all to the conversation. She also struggles with conversations centred around someone else being complained about...ie, friends falling out with other friends and just the general girlie chats that they begin to have at that age. If they move onto something she is interested in, say Pokemon or DS games, then she can contribute, but otherwise, whoosh, straight over her head.

 

I had wondered if girls on the spectrum found this age particularly difficult, in comparison to boys, due to girls being very cliquey etc. What happened with your son?

 

Well, its not good He muddled along for about a year getting increasingly left out and playing with the younger kids, the only thing that made it easier for him was that I worked at the adjoining pre-school and he used to come accros to me and help out. He also did not get the endless talk about sport/cars/girls etc, as I said the differences are more pronounced as they get older , and they need us as back up more than ever! Enid

[Zosmum]

Hi

Z is now 12 and a secondary and is being left behind more and more

She's never been one for loads of freinds, only 1 or 2 at a time (she can't handle any more) and yes it breaks your heart.

I found if I try to push the situation she pulls back even more. It seems that you just got to leave them to it and hope it all turns out ok. I suppose it might help them to find their own coping stratagies for when they're older

[Bagpuss]

Thanks Zosmum <'>

[Bagpuss]

Well, its not good He muddled along for about a year getting increasingly left out and playing with the younger kids, the only thing that made it easier for him was that I worked at the adjoining pre-school and he used to come accros to me and help out. He also did not get the endless talk about sport/cars/girls etc, as I said the differences are more pronounced as they get older , and they need us as back up more than ever! Enid

 

 

Enid <'> <'>

[Bagpuss]

This did make me feel sad. My Dd 7 (AS) is not quite there yet but I can see this sort of thing happening. I have that book Aspergers and Girls which doesnt cover this in detail but there is a useful chapter on relationships. Youve had some great advice. Good luck

 

 

Thanks for replying Madme, will check that book out <'>