Marriage in trouble

[GBH61]

Hi, this is my first post in the forum. I am approching 61 years old.

About a year ago I was diagnosed as being AS. I have always felt I was different as far back as primary school. I did not mix easily wirh other children, or at any of my schools. Always felt the odd one out, the outsider. I did not have the same interests as other children. I have never had what I would class as a good friend. So called friends always wanted me around for them, but when I wanted something they were always missing. Growing up I always felt more comfortable doing solo things. Such as learning to fly and gaining a pilots licence, doing rallying, playing squash. My first marriage was very succesful, but unfortunately I lost my first wife from cancer. I have two lovely daughters from that marriage, the youngest of whom has also been diagnosed with AS. I am in a second relationship now, and have been for the past 12 years. We are married. Since getting my diagnosis I feel that my present relationship has now becoming more difficult. My wife says that the hope she had that our marriage would be what she was looking for has now died. Our relationship was never very easy, but since the diagnosis it seems to be far worse. I cannot empathise with my wife. I feel as though every thing she says to me is an implied critisicm.

 

I would really like to be able to acheive a better balance in our relationship, and not receive things my wife says to me as a critisicm.

 

Does anyone else out there have similar problems?

 

Thanks

[TheNeil]

Hi GBH,

 

Well my story is similar to yours but hopefully you can learn from my mistakes. I'd been with my partner for about five years when I was diagnosed with AS when I was 31. We were settled, happy and didn't seem to have any real problems. After the dx I went through something of a tough time but my wife was always there. It therefore came as something of a shock to come home one day and find that she'd moved out and had, in fact, been having an affair for three months...and it was three months since I'd been diagnosed.

 

Despite going through hell, questioning myself, and doubting everything and anything I couldn't make sense of it. Now though we're actually good friends so I've been able to find out what was 'missing' and drove her to leave. Not being able to empathise was, as she explained, a problem and me coming out with something 'tactless' could sometimes hurt her but, instead of saying something, she'd just laugh it off or raise any concerns. We'd actually dealt with an awful lot of my own AS 'quirks' long before either of us had even heard of AS but I think that the realisation that I would never be able to fully understand or be able to deal with certain things how she would have liked me to was what led her to do what she did. In my specific case I can't handle children (it's a sensory thing) and while she'd always said that she wasn't interested either, the truth was, she desperately wanted to be a mother and that was the one thing that I couldn't give her.

 

No matter which way you look at it, our problems came down to communication. I would have difficulty communcating how I was feeling or when I wasn't able to cope and she would, likewise, not point out things that were 'unacceptable' or contrary to what she wanted.

 

All I can suggest is talk to her. Explain how you feel, what difficulties you have with things such as empathising and try to work out ways around the 'problems'. It might sound simplistic but the pair of you may need to go 'back to basics' on some things - empathising is obviously something that you find hard so try to discuss what she feels when she's upset (or, rather, discuss them when she isn't upset so that you can have a better understanding when she is upset). She also needs to understand how you are taking things as criticsim. That's not to say that they are or aren't criticism but if you're interpreting them as such and it's upsetting you then she needs to be aware of this. As with the empathising, the pair of you need to work out what you can use to flag when she is being genuinely critical and when she isn't.

 

Dealing with an AS diagnosis isn't easy (as lots of people here will no doubt re-iterate) and everybody does it in their own way. For some it's a relief, for some it's a time of total confusion, for some...etc. etc. etc. When you're in a relationship though then the other person can also have things to deal with. The person that they know and love is still the same as before but now they're 'different'. Have you and your partner sat down and talked about it? Has she said what exactly it is that has 'died' in your relationship?

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, talk to her. Be prepared to be totally honest with her and ask her to be the same in return. Maybe if my wife and I had been able to do the same, we'd still be together but, as it is, I've had to learn the hard way and, maybe, developed an understanding - at the very least I recognise where more of my 'weaknesses' are.

[baddad]

Hi GBH -

 

Sorry to hear of your marriage problems, it must be really difficult for you.

 

One thing I would say is that it's unlikely your diagnosis has created the situation you now find yourself in, and that it's probably timing that has made it feel that way. Unless your behaviour has changed significantly since diagnosis, then it's more likely that your relationship was running into difficulties already, but maybe the diagnosis was a 'crisis point' which provided a platform for your wife to feel confident about discussing those difficulties?

If you look at statistics, marriages do run into difficulties all the time, and often those difficulties are brought into focus by crises of one sort or another. Sometimes they can be quite dramatic - infidelities, deaths of loved ones, children moving out of home, career changes etc - but sometimes they just happen, leaving couples not quite sure what happened: the 'we just drifted apart' situations. That's not to say that aspects of you personality (whether arising from AS or other factors) couldn't play their part, but after 12 years that shouldn't be held responsible for the breakdown. If you and your wife want to get things back on track, then neither should it be allowed to 'colour' whatever the fundamental problems are in the relationship, because you're not going to be able to suddenly 'switch off' the person you've been for the past 12 years (or indeed the past 61).

Reading your post it's not entirely clear whether the changes since diagnosis are something you've felt more strongly or whether it has clarified your wife's feelings? The point you make about feeling that she's criticising all the time is an interesting one, because it could be she said these things in the past and that you didn't take them in quite the same way? Maybe the diagnosis has changed the way you feel about those aspects of your behaviour, and maybe, after years of 'blaming' yourself for those things you now feel angry at being 'judged' for things which are entirely natural for you?

I think everyone who goes through a marriage breakdown tries to find answers and explanations. More often than not, they amount to the same things; In men's terms, 'My wife doesn't understand me', while women say the same thing but far more articulately. Usually they will include things like 'he doesn't want to talk about things', 'he doesn't understand my emotional needs' he doesn't empathise with me' etc etc. There's been a million books written on the subject (Men are from mars and codds like that), but usually it's just differneces between the way men and women think that are different and incomprehensible to one another (sweeping generalisation, but elements of truth to it usually, none the less).

If you think about it, you've had two very successful marriages (12 years isn't to be sniffed at by anyones standards, and hopefully if you negotiate this crises it's not over yet) and your relationship with your kids seems strong, so 'autism' certainly isn't compromising your ability to sustain lasting relationships. There are millions of 'NT's' who've never been able to negotiate relationships that successfully, so while autism might look like a convenient 'reason', it's unlikely that that's actually the case.

 

Hope that's helpful, and very best

 

[LicklePaulie]

Hi GBH,

 

Two possibilities strike me about your situation (which, trust me, is becoming less and less rare).

 

i) Your wife initially chose, as do many people, to spend her life with someone who they believe will adapt into the perfect partner. A dx of AS is a very clear message that you are even less likely to fit into that mould than most people because those of us with AS simply don't have the skills to change as quickly as our NT cousins. Such a blunt appraisal may simply lead her directly to the honest conclusion that your relationship is not worth the effort she would have to give in order to make it a workable proposition.

 

ii) Your dx has left your wife (as it did mine) in a period of "mourning" for the person she thought she had but has been told you are not. You cannot (the textbooks say) empathise with her, feel her pain, or intuitively understand her needs and wants. In our case, my wife came to terms with this and was still able to appreciate what she did have rather than grieve over what she did not. We have before and since spent many hours trying to understand our differences in order to make our marriage work but I do know of others who have not been able to negotiate this successfully.

 

In either scenario, you need to talk things through as openly and honestly as possible. It may well turn out that you are unable to get over the hurdles that arise - there is no how-to manual that reflects everybody's situation - and that is the hard truth that you may have to bear. For instance, would it be any more fair to expect her to stay in a relationship that could not meet her requirements (e.g. for intutitive, empathetic love on her own terms) than to ask you to stay in one that failed to meet your own (e.g. adaptation to your sensory or social needs)? The truth needs to be weedled out and that, in itself, can take up a great deal of time and effort from both parties, which each of you may or may not be prepared to invest.

 

I wish you well in your task...

[GBH61]

WOW. Thanks for all the replies. It is really helpful to know that my situation is not unique. All your replies are most welcome. I think principally our greatest difficulty is in the art of communication. If my wife says something about a situation or problem then I immediatly come up with what I think is a practical solution. I am a 'Mr Fix It' type. Whereas my wife usually looks at the situation in much more broad terms. Also, my wife says that when we are trying to talk something over, I keep interrupting her. I find it difficult to know when someone has finished speaking and it is my turn to respond. I am told that I am always interrupting, cutting across someone talking. I am not aware that I am doing this, only that I am involving myself in the conversation with a free exchange. It does seem to difficult for me, and I assume most AS persons to engage in conversation. I do not seem, at least I think so, to have this difficulty at work.

 

Gary

 

Hi GBH,

 

Two possibilities strike me about your situation (which, trust me, is becoming less and less rare).

 

i) Your wife initially chose, as do many people, to spend her life with someone who they believe will adapt into the perfect partner. A dx of AS is a very clear message that you are even less likely to fit into that mould than most people because those of us with AS simply don't have the skills to change as quickly as our NT cousins. Such a blunt appraisal may simply lead her directly to the honest conclusion that your relationship is not worth the effort she would have to give in order to make it a workable proposition.

 

ii) Your dx has left your wife (as it did mine) in a period of "mourning" for the person she thought she had but has been told you are not. You cannot (the textbooks say) empathise with her, feel her pain, or intuitively understand her needs and wants. In our case, my wife came to terms with this and was still able to appreciate what she did have rather than grieve over what she did not. We have before and since spent many hours trying to understand our differences in order to make our marriage work but I do know of others who have not been able to negotiate this successfully.

 

In either scenario, you need to talk things through as openly and honestly as possible. It may well turn out that you are unable to get over the hurdles that arise - there is no how-to manual that reflects everybody's situation - and that is the hard truth that you may have to bear. For instance, would it be any more fair to expect her to stay in a relationship that could not meet her requirements (e.g. for intutitive, empathetic love on her own terms) than to ask you to stay in one that failed to meet your own (e.g. adaptation to your sensory or social needs)? The truth needs to be weedled out and that, in itself, can take up a great deal of time and effort from both parties, which each of you may or may not be prepared to invest.

 

I wish you well in your task...

 

[baddad]

I am a 'Mr Fix It' type. Whereas my wife usually looks at the situation in much more broad terms. Also, my wife says that when we are trying to talk something over, I keep interrupting her. I find it difficult to know when someone has finished speaking and it is my turn to respond. I am told that I am always interrupting, cutting across someone talking. I am not aware that I am doing this, only that I am involving myself in the conversation with a free exchange. It does seem to difficult for me, and I assume most AS persons to engage in conversation. I do not seem, at least I think so, to have this difficulty at work.

 

Gary

 

Hi Gary

 

'Mr Fix It' - you and about 99.9% of the male population in most women's eyes! The term was actually coined in one of those self-help/codd psychology books I mentioned ("Men are from Mars") and it has absolutely nothing to do with your autism whatsover - it's just an acknowledged and recognised difference in the way that most men and most women think. It's to do with male brain pathology rather than 'autistic' brain pathology, and as it applies to around 50% of the population it is equally reasonable to say that the 'problem' is that your wife doesn't think like that; but that's a line of logic few women have sympathy with, despite their 'higher communication centre'

The second thing is an area where a communication disorder could have a negative impact (but that said, there are plenty of people who will atest to the fact that their partners, male and female and non-autistic, are guilty of the same crime), so it's something well worth working on as a couple if you can.

Important to bear in mind though that any 'fix' has to be a two way thing - that your wife has to appreciate that you're not doing it on purpose and that it shouldn't be used as a 'tool' to deny you your opinion or to take control of the conversation when she wants to speak.

One thing that could help massively is to work out a visual cue you can both recognise and that can be used alongside of the natural body language that you tend to miss. If you're going to use it in public it will need to be quite subtle (otherwise it could look as though your wife was being patronising even though she was actually working with you to an agreed and mutually beneficial strategy), but in general terms variations of the signals I used with my son would probably help. If he's gabbling, and dominating the conversation, I hold up a flat palm like a 'stop' sign, and when I have finished I extend the flat palm toward him gesturing that i have finished. Now he's better with this kind of thing we have a stock joke we use all the time - I say: 'Sorry to talk when you're interrupting'

One other thing to bear in mind, and I think it's really important for you both, and particularly for your self-esteem. This behaviour is not new behaviour that's arisen since your diagnosis. It is behaviour that has been part of your successful relationship for 12 years, and presumably (as it was unconcious behaviour) something that occurred in your previous successful relationships too. whatever is going on in your relationship now it is not because you are autistic and it is not because you have been diagnosed (though as i said in my post, the latter could have been a key factor in bringing pre-existing problems out into the open). Blaming autism for the problems you are encountering isn't going to do much to reassure you (which is what diagnosis should do), and it's not going to resolve anything; so your best bet is to look at the problems and work on those rather than trying to pin a convenient label on the problems and write them off.

 

Hope that helps

 

[Delyth]

Hi

 

It might help your wife if she knows that the change that she is hoping for is possible - that having AS does not mean being unable to change. It is a developmental disorder and people with AS grow and learn new skills too if they so choose, though the change might be more difficult to achieve. My husband has AS and is learning new ways to think and communicate - ways that are more 'relationship friendly', so my experience is that it is possible, if not easy. I haven't given up hope yet!

 

My husband also often percieves comments as criticisms of him and it does make conversation tricky at times and adds to his defensiveness. I don't know why he does this, maybe low self esteem? maybe still having a developing sense of 'self and other' so he still sees the world as if he is the cause of everything, the centre of everything? Anyhow, I have learned that he does this and now will usually ask how he has understood any of my comments before our conversation progresses to make sure we understand each other correctly and don't get side tracked. He is able to repeat back to me what he heard (or even read) me say and often it is 'twisted in some way' to fit into his preconceived idea. I then reword things to make my point clearer or stress things differently. So checking what is heard is a strategy that helps our communication. And I never assume that what is said, is what is received. These strategies have helped us communicate better.

 

I think it's great that you have posted and are looking for solutions and it's wonderful that you have recognised and acknowledged something that may be causing your wife problems too.

 

Good luck

 

Delyth

[Kinda]

Hi, this is my first post in the forum. I am approching 61 years old.

About a year ago I was diagnosed as being AS. I have always felt I was different as far back as primary school. I did not mix easily wirh other children, or at any of my schools. Always felt the odd one out, the outsider. I did not have the same interests as other children. I have never had what I would class as a good friend. So called friends always wanted me around for them, but when I wanted something they were always missing. Growing up I always felt more comfortable doing solo things. Such as learning to fly and gaining a pilots licence, doing rallying, playing squash. My first marriage was very succesful, but unfortunately I lost my first wife from cancer. I have two lovely daughters from that marriage, the youngest of whom has also been diagnosed with AS. I am in a second relationship now, and have been for the past 12 years. We are married. Since getting my diagnosis I feel that my present relationship has now becoming more difficult. My wife says that the hope she had that our marriage would be what she was looking for has now died. Our relationship was never very easy, but since the diagnosis it seems to be far worse. I cannot empathise with my wife. I feel as though every thing she says to me is an implied critisicm.

 

I would really like to be able to acheive a better balance in our relationship, and not receive things my wife says to me as a critisicm.

 

Does anyone else out there have similar problems?

 

Thanks

 

Hi GBH

 

I have a 25 year old AS son and my wife also calls me "strange" at times which leads me to at least ponder if I'm on the AS route as well.

 

That is just a bit of background for you since you asked if others were having the same trouble and how did they deal with it.

 

There has been some excellent advice given and not detracting from their postings it would appear from your initial message that the problems with your marriage had been ongoing prior to diagnosis and so for me this is the area to concentrate on with frank communication with your wife. I think the AS diagnosis is the secondary issue and obviously hasn't helped your case.

 

I guess you have to ask your wife what she wants from you and were she feels you are not meeting her requirements and then see if you can understand her issues and recognise them and if that is the case can you then change, that is if you want to that is.

 

As has already been said its all about communication and respecting each others feelings.

 

Kinda ....hopefull for you.

 

[billabong]

My husband also often percieves comments as criticisms of him and it does make conversation tricky at times and adds to his defensiveness. I don't know why he does this, maybe low self esteem? maybe still having a developing sense of 'self and other' so he still sees the world as if he is the cause of everything, the centre of everything? Anyhow, I have learned that he does this and now will usually ask how he has understood any of my comments before our conversation progresses to make sure we understand each other correctly and don't get side tracked. He is able to repeat back to me what he heard (or even read) me say and often it is 'twisted in some way' to fit into his preconceived idea. I then reword things to make my point clearer or stress things differently. So checking what is heard is a strategy that helps our communication. And I never assume that what is said, is what is received. These strategies have helped us communicate better.

 

Good idea, Delyth - I'll give that a go.

 

Billabong