Teachers' understanding of ASD

[lbj]

What would an early years teacher usually know of ASDs? Is it only what they pick up as each individual child comes along? My son had his first session in nursery today and I think it went well overall - tho' I get the impression that he spent all afternoon playing happily, by himself, with trains and/or the computer. The teacher (who I know has had a ASD affected child in her class before) told me (with a worried look on her face) that Els hadn't joined in with the other children and done the various daily activities even though she'd explained it to him. I said to her that his understanding of language is less than perfect and he is more self-driven than a lot of three year olds and that I would expect his compliance to improve as he gets used to the set-up. Is it just that she only knows about the other child whom she had in her class last year and whom I know to be very different from Els in his manifestation of ASD? In that case it's laudable that she's not generalising however... Do early years teachers not even know that it's a communication disorder and there's a clue in that classification? I like the girl, she seems very patient and my older son got on well in her class but it just seems a shame that she's not a bit more clued up.

 

I am glad that Els came out smiling this time, after a disasterous introductory session due to them having put the wrong time down on the letter (just the wrong kid for that to happen to!)

 

Janine

[Mumble]

You probably won't want this answer, but I think you're right and you're actually lucky she isn't generalising (and that she has some experience of ASD). In my teacher training, we had a morning session on SEN ... in three years ... and that covered 'everything' apparently. The other side of the argument that teachers should know and be trained is of course how on earth do you do that - ASDs are by no means not the only issues a child in your class may face - and these issues/challenges extend far beyond disability. It wouldn't be feasible to know everything - if we did we could make a lot more money as pediatricians, CAMHS etc all rolled into one. I hope that doesn't sound flippant. From my experience, teachers will know what they have experience of and on top of that what they are interested in and follow-up often in their own time.

 

I think a good (but not perfect) solution would be that teachers know where to get the information they require to be proactive and that this is readily available. Perhaps (and I say this very cautiously) there is an argument that as long as they are willing to listen and learn, not knowing may in fact be a good thing as it allows an unbiased individual centred approach rather than an approach based on a diagnosis which may cover a multitude of presentations.

 

[lynne]

 

 

The training of teachers need to revised and adjusted. It should be mandatory training to spend several weeks working in a special school.

 

The number of children being diagnosed with Austim is increasing rapidly. The latest information is 1 child in every 100 has Austim. So that means there will be several children with Autism in every school.

 

We have 133,500 children under 18 years with ASD. I believe this figure is actually must higher. How can the people who organise teacher training ignor this large amount of children.

 

Isn't it funny how all schools need to be accessible to disabled children. Yet, alot of schools think this means wheelchair access. It would be so benefical if there was a quite area in every school. One where all children can just go and cool down, relax, get away etc. A lot of normal children would also use this area.

 

In my sons school of 700 children there was one child who used a wheel chair (not constantly just when she was tired, as she was born with one very small leg and a normal leg), yet her needs were put ahead of child with invisable difficulties.

 

Hopefully once we have a Bill for ASD than things will start improving.

[bluefish]

Hi

I think that if a child with asd is going to attend school then the least we should expect is that the teachers should research a little about the condition, listen to us as parents and accsess specialist advisory teaching services advice where applicable. Inclusion in my opinion should mean just that,I do not expect all teaching staff to be proffesionals in asd but I do expect them to have a basic knowledge and more importantly an INTEREST and to take on board what we as parents tell them might affect our children. I have not had a positive experience with staff and have not been listened to. I think that as long as school staff are open and take on board what as parents we say and then deal with our children with that in mind and do what they feel is right things would be ok. I do not want to limit my sons experiences by telling school "he cant do this he hates that" but I do want them to understrand that some things could be a big deal for him.

[Mumble]

We have 133,500 children under 18 years with ASD. I believe this figure is actually must higher. How can the people who organise teacher training ignore this large amount of children.

And (estimated, not included multi-dx)...

61000 with epilepsy,

1170000 with dyslexia

26000 with cerebral palsy

13000 with Downs syndrome

650000 with severe allergies

1100000 with asthma

3250000 raised by a single parent

56500 in care

etc

etc

etc

 

Children with one particular diagnosis/difficulty/difference/etc will not present the same, have the same needs, need the same medical/other intervention requirements etc. As close as we all feel to ASD, we can't single it out and say teachers must know this condition inside out and I think such demands actually could be detrimental. Forcing training on someone who is already bombarded with other demands isn't going to work - we need a culture where it's OK to ask for help and where that help is readily available to support individuals, whatever their diagnosis or not, when required. Blanket training runs the risk of intensifying stereotypes. I realise that this is going to be an unpopular opinion, and sometimes I've got annoyed at people's lack of training when dealing with me, but thinking more clearly it's realistically not a possibility. Listening to and working with individuals on an as needed basis has to be more cost effective and I suspect beneficial.

 

 

[chris54]

The number of children being diagnosed with Austim is increasing rapidly. The latest information is 1 child in every 100 has Austim. So that means there will be several children with Autism in every school.

But if the number of 1 in 100 is correct then at a small school like my sons old school there would be, on average, only one child with autism in reception class every 4 or 5 years. Not an excuse, just the way it is. A teacher with 3 or 4 years experience may never have come across a child with autism.

Edited January 8, 2009 by chris54

[Neil Young]

But if the number of 1 in 100 is correct then at a small school like my sons old school there would be, on average, only one child with autism in reception class every 4 or 5 years. Not an excuse, just the way it is.

 

This may help and includes the Foundation Stage

 

 

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/docbank/index.cfm?id=12968

 

 

[Karen A]

Hi.I worked in a nursery as a lunch time supervisor for a couple of years.I have to say that in my experience it would be very very early for a teacher to be having any clear ideas about any child on the basis of a first session....whether the child had recognised SEN or not.Where I used to work the new starters only stayed an hour for at least the first week...with mum on site.Many children screemed at first and were very unhappy .It would be very unusual for a new starter to be mixing and joining with activities unless they had come from full time child-care....to be standing around looking anxious would be the norm.

I wonder how much experience the teacher has in the foundation stage ? Karen.

[lbj]

Hi.I worked in a nursery as a lunch time supervisor for a couple of years.I have to say that in my experience it would be very very early for a teacher to be having any clear ideas about any child on the basis of a first session....whether the child had recognised SEN or not.Where I used to work the new starters only stayed an hour for at least the first week...with mum on site.Many children screemed at first and were very unhappy .It would be very unusual for a new starter to be mixing and joining with activities unless they had come from full time child-care....to be standing around looking anxious would be the norm.

I wonder how much experience the teacher has in the foundation stage ? Karen.

 

Good point! The children were all very orderly the other day when their parents were present but it is quite a strage thing, the notion of 3 year olds who are that "with the programme" - guess they must've been tho'! It's not a huge problem (not at the moment) as I feel very confident that he will settle down and improve. The teacher is very young and I think Elli is probably quite atypical (the paed was puzzled by him although the autism advisory teacher recognised his characteristics immediately). That's the other thing, the autism advisory people haven't even properly assessed him yet so I guess they'll give the school a lot of pointers eventually. I was just a bit taken aback that she was surprised at him behaving in such a predictable way!

 

The guidance paper in the link above is very good too - thank-you.

 

janine

[lynne]

If all trainee teachers had to work in special needs (I did not say ASD schools). Than this would expand there experience and knowledge of some children with special needs and more importantly the attitude of some teachers.

 

My friend is a Senco and one of her colleagues said she did not believe children with special needs should be in a "normal" school. She was refering to a ASD child. My friend (senco) has a 14 year old son with Downs syndrome and informed her colleague of this!!!!!!

 

If people are anxious, afraid of some childrens difficulties than this is not good for the child.

 

Since junior school I have built up a good relationship with all my sons teachers. (Infant school was the opposite because I was seen as a trouble making parent. But this parent took the school to tribunnal for discrimiinating against my childs special needs and won).

 

But the majority of teachers in Junior school have all said at first they were scared to teach my son. But after many lows and high they realise what he had to offer and ervy day my son made the teachers laughed. The experience of working with him had made them all better teachers. I was lucky because these teachers felt comfortable to tell me these things.

 

Compulsary training in special needs school would remove alot of barriers to teachers working with special needs children.

 

The answer is not to expect teachers to be expert with special needs children. But being open, approachable, knowing where they can access help would prevent alot of problems arising.

 

After all special needs parents receive no training, are with the child 52 weeks, do not get any holidays and is expected to survive. Come up against lots of obstacles medical, school life etc but we still survive.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2009 by lynne

[peaches]

I am a retired early years teacher. I also have a psychology degree. I didnt recognise Asperger's in my own daughter until she was an adult. I had taught more than one child with autism. There were many similarities and many differences between them. In my probationary year following qualification, I asked to spend a day in a special school. It was really helpful and I think it would be useful for every teacher to spend some time in a school like this. There were children with autism as well as other difficulties. The biggest advantage to doing this was not necessarily to learn to recognise different syndromes etc. It helped me enormously in learning how to deal with children with special needs. It showed me the practical ways the specialist teachers went about every single detail of the school day to make it accessible to these children.

 

From this, the conclusion I would draw is during teacher training not every single thing can be taught to trainees. You really learn to teach when you are given your own class: those first few years are a steep learning curve. Trainees should be given specific and appropriate reading on things like Asperger's, Autism, ADHD etc then given an opportunity to do a placement in a special school to learn hands on how to adjust the curriculum and the daily routine for children with special needs. It really is a case of planning for individuals rather than a class of 30.

[something_different]

I did childcare training, (what would qualify me as an early years worker) and out training on ASD was NOT good at all, i think we read a section of a text book about it, and the lecturer waffled on about something stupid, she said.

 

Someone who has autism wil have problems communicating, but they will have an obsession maybe about bridges, so you should say something like.

 

I went over a bridge and i felt happy, how did you feel when u went over a bridge??

 

then they will be able to answer you

 

No joke! WTF?

 

and it was only a couple of years ago, so fairly recent.

 

I agree that early years workers should be placed within special needs schools nurseries.

 

I requested this and was laughed at, (by the lecturer) and told that i would never be able to work with SEN because i wasn't even coping in mainstream. COW! sorry wee rant their.

[Ian Jordan]

 

Why should teachers be singled out - virtually all professions training for children with special needs is abysmal. The resistance amongst professionals to thinking outside the box is also staggering - but perhaps it is the culture of simpllistic catagorisation and box ticking which, whilst it provides "meaningful statistics" makes it impossible to deal with many special needs adequately.

I see perhaps 4 people on the spectrum every day - I have not seen two with identical presentations - but there are many groups of similarities which suggests to me that there are a series of distinct conditions that can be described overall as autism. Treatment of most of the unpleasant symptoms found in ASD is possible now, using many techniques, but so few childen get even rudimentary access, it makes me both sad and angry. If parents only knew what can be done.........

 

Teachers have my sympathy - but people that organise education / teachers training don't. They have set up a system that abuses children - both in inadequate training, and indirectly through the systems that are in place when a child does struggle. Where is the NUT - they surely should be as vociferous on this - or are they just interested in political points!

 

 

 

 

 

[puffin]

I think that it is not only knowledge that counts but also the personality of the teacher involved. M had some of her worst experiences in mainstream with a teacher who was an "autism expert" who held a qualification in SEN as well as having taken University courses in autism and Aspergers syndrome.

 

The problem seemed to be that regardless of her academic study she was unable to truly understand the nature of Ms communication difficulties and would blame M for not being able to come forward to explain her feelings and problems. The second problem was that this particular teacher did not have the level of maturity necessary to keep calm and act consistently no matter how many plans and programmes we wrote up the teacher always broke them - the teacher had a personality that always had to be right and get the last word in and would scream in the face of children and even got physical with them - you can imagine how that went with and AS child .....

 

Ironically it was only the autism trained teacher that caused these problems but unfortunately she was the class teacher - there was never a problem in classes that had teachers without SEN training such as music, science, drama, PE, needlwork and woodwork.

 

 

 

[oxgirl]

The best teacher that Jay ever had was his very first. She was fresh out of teacher training college and in her post position. She was young and keen and enthusiastic, had lots of energy and was ready and willing to learn as much as she could. I agree with Puffin, training isn't the be all and end all.

 

~ Mel ~

[Canopus]

Why should teachers be singled out - virtually all professions training for children with special needs is abysmal. The resistance amongst professionals to thinking outside the box is also staggering - but perhaps it is the culture of simpllistic catagorisation and box ticking which, whilst it provides "meaningful statistics" makes it impossible to deal with many special needs adequately.

 

The problem is that to succeed in examined education and academia you have to comply with the rules and follow the curriculum. There is no place but failure for students who think outside the box or argue with the curriculum content.

 

My brother completed a social work degree that did not cover ASD.

 

Where is the NUT - they surely should be as vociferous on this - or are they just interested in political points!

 

Teaching unions are not interested in improving SEN services. Some teachers have even been harassed by teaching union bosses for going out of their way to support kids with SEN.

Edited January 11, 2009 by mossgrove

[Ian Jordan]

 

I hope you are wrong about the teaching unions - but sadly I think you are right.

 

If they only knew how much good they could do ........... but don't. If they changed their attitude and listened and reacted in a way that any reasonable person would - the world could be better for so many children

 

But I can wish for miracles....

[Canopus]

If they only knew how much good they could do ........... but don't. If they changed their attitude and listened and reacted in a way that any reasonable person would - the world could be better for so many children.

 

It's so obvious that it's unobvious. Teaching unions represent teachers. Not kids with SEN.

 

I can vaguely remember some teaching union bosses not wanting computers in schools back in the days when 640k was a lot of memory. This is because they thought that computers would make teachers redundant in the same way they were making factory workers redundant. A perfect instance of putting the assumed interests of teachers (jobs) before the interests of kids (education).

 

 

 

[lynne]

 

 

 

I watched the teachers programme today on SEN. It showed a school for children who had behaviour problems. Some children had diagnosis of ADHD etc other children did not have a diagnosis, some children had received a diagnosis since attending the school.

 

All these children had been excluded several times from normal school.

 

The teacher interview said these children aged 11yrs plus were motivated to recieve awards and praise as they had never succeeded with any anything in there previous school.

 

School is about the child being valued and there skills being recognised. It about trust and respect on both sides. Alot of lessons had to be made into practical sessions so the children could see achievement at the end of the lesson. Than they felt succesful. This achievement could not be obtained over a month because the children needed to see results at each lesson.

 

They also interviewed a parent who said before her son attended the school she always received phone calls from his old schools complaining he had done such and such. Not once did she or her son get any praise. However, at this new school the parents are phoned weekly and a report is sent home which they discuss together, also if the parent is having any problems/acheivements at home. Both positive and negative incidents are discussed so the parent felt her child was valued and the school were on her side. She also said since her child had been at the school he had learned to wait and have patience. His aggression had been reduced and he learned postive methods to deal with his aggression. The parent said the school had given her her child back and family life was so good.

 

They also interviewed a teacher who had taught in mainstream schools for 7 years. Now, this teacher thought he was a very good teacher until he started working at this school. He said you need to give the child a fresh start every 20 minutes and forget what had happened previously. That way you are giving the child opportunites to achieve and with patience and time the child will be turned around.

 

The programme was very thought provoking and only confirms how beneficial it would be for all trainee teachers to take a placement outside of mainstream school.

 

 

 

 

 

[Canopus]

The best teacher that Jay ever had was his very first. She was fresh out of teacher training college and in her post position. She was young and keen and enthusiastic, had lots of energy and was ready and willing to learn as much as she could. I agree with Puffin, training isn't the be all and end all.

 

The teacher I had in Y4 was fresh out of teacher training college. She was very inexperienced and didn't have a clue how to effectively support me.

 

The programme was very thought provoking and only confirms how beneficial it would be for all trainee teachers to take a placement outside of mainstream school.

 

Yes it would be beneficial but saying this on the TES "staffroom" probably wouldn't win you many friends.