Conners scores different between home and school

[KarenT]

Already posted about this when asking for behaviour management advice (thanks, Jsmum!) but I feel I need to take this further with professionals.

 

Does anyone know what is regarded as good professional practice when Conners' scores vary significantly between school and home? J already has a dx of AS but we've always felt that some aspects of his presentation were more consistent with ADHD, though in the past we've been told that they're covered by the AS 'umbrella'. At (very brief) assessment in December we were shown results from us and school and the psychiatrist plumped for the school's opinion then ushered us out. I'd always thought that if there was such an extreme difference a good practitioner would get further opinion from another source to balance out the two conflicting ones, but the psych refused to do this. The outcome is that J , although his behaviours are consistent with ADHD, can't be offered a trial of meds becaus the NICE guidelines say doctors can't prescribe without a formal dx.

 

Have any of you had similar experiences, and how was it handled by the pros?

 

Ta muchly!

Karen

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[Kazzen161]

When T was being diagnosed with AS, I was told that all sources had to agree. In our case the school agreed with me, but my ex didn't. In the end he agreed to keep quiet so T could get the dx.

 

Both my AS boys started off being suspected of having ADHD - but were dxd AS on further assessment. Both get more hypie the more stressed/anxious/excited they get, and I do watch what they eat/drink.

[purplehaze]

Hi when my son was diagnosed the connor rating showed that he had ADHD behaviours at home and less at school so wasn't dx with ADHD as well. The psych said it was prob due to school being more structured. Now I have put strategies in place his behaviour is worse at school than home and i'm sure if done now it would be extremly high for school.

 

 

What professionals need to remember whether dx or not children display diff behaviours for a reason!!!! and this is what needs to be supported.

[KarenT]

Thanks for replies

 

The problem here is that J WAS displaying much of the same significant ADHD behaviours at school, particularly anger and aggression, to the extent that when he was excluded for one day in September the Head urged me to get him to CAMHS asap and request that he be given a trial of medication because they couldn't control the extent and unpredictably of his outbursts. That was when I requested the urgent appointment and asked for the referral to this particular psychiatrist, who I know works with children with dual dx. However, at that point the school had no strategies in place for J (which the Head admitted) and even after I met with her to discuss this she still failed to implement any, right to the point where I removed him to home educate five weeks later. In short, the school had plenty of reason to back-pedal and underplay J's difficulties to protect themselves. He was having meltdowns and major rages most days, wasn't able to focus on work, his sensory sensitivity was rocketing beyond what had been usual up to that point in school and his peer relationships were being damaged. He was getting through a pair of glasses a week because he kept mangling them in rage, and he spent as much time in the ICT suite or Head's office as he did in the classroom because he was constantly being removed to calm down.

 

Essentially, what seems to have happened is that school underestimated the extent of J's autism when he arrived there in Sept 07, this being virtually admitted by the Head a few months later when she commented to me that there 'wasn't much wrong there'. Similar comments came from other staff, and the exclusion incident occurred when one teacher 'forgot he was autistic' when restraining him after he lost his temper. There was no proactive plan in place for him and the extent of their support was crisis management, attempting (and failing) to calm him down after he'd blown, by which time it was too late.

 

I believe that his presentation has been underplayed by school to protect themselves, ie that they didn't provide support because they claimed he didn't need it. The application for statutory assessment, which I submitted around the same time as he was deregistered, was rejected on the same grounds, that his needs were being well met in school and he was thriving socially, despite him being signed off by his GP for a week for 'extreme emotional distress'. He was a complete mess at that time, to be honest, and had regressed about 18 months in a few weeks.

 

To be fair, J probably has far more structure and strategies at home than he's ever had in either of the schools he's attended, so I don't think it's that the difficult behaviour hasn't presented in school. It most certainly has, and there is evidence to prove it, but the school aren't being truthful about it.

 

But my question now is how do I get his ADHD needs recognised, confirmed and treated if the medics are only taking notice of views from the school that failed him? Where do I go from here? Although he is generally calmer now from not being under constant stress, the underlying ADHD issues are still there - he can't focus, is very impulsive and is very easily distracted. It definitely believe it needs to be addressed medically but I can't get anyone to take me seriously

 

Thanks

Karen

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[lynne]

 

 

 

Hi Karen,

 

 

Alot of ASD children have severe sensory issues and this can reflect the large difference between home and school assessment.

 

It can also lead to poor concentration, impulse behaviour etc

 

Also lots of children do have dual diagnoses.

 

You could ask your GP for a referral to a specialist in ADHD as everyone in entitled to a second opinion.

 

Hope you succeed

 

[Sooze2]

My sons scores were all 3's at home and school except for few few lower ones where they asked about accedemic things like reading and maths in school. It was a shock really because I thought he would be better at school than at home where is can be who he is with out worrying! A lot of ASD traits are similar to ADHD but I would keep plugging on if you think you are right.

 

How old is your son? Mine was diagnosed last summer just before he was 9 and the school said they can't flag him up until he is acting signifficantly different to the children of his age in that they have matured and can sit still and concentrate and he just can't etc.

[Kazzen161]

I presume you have looked at his diet and tried fish oils?

 

If the school did not meet his AS needs, the doctors do not have a baseline to see what behaviours are then "left over" and if these fit in with ADHD.

 

Does he go to any clubs or similar that could back you up?

 

 

[KarenT]

How old is your son? Mine was diagnosed last summer just before he was 9 and the school said they can't flag him up until he is acting signifficantly different to the children of his age in that they have matured and can sit still and concentrate and he just can't etc.

He's ten. We were told the same thing when we first raised concerns about ADHD when he was 5 - that they preferred to wait and see how well he settled in school before deciding to assess. He's been in two schools in the past five years and is now home educated (since October), but there has always been a marked difference between him and his age peers, particularly in social situations. The strange thing is that whenever we've picked up on teachers' comments about him not working hard enough, or his output being low for his ability, or how distracting he is to other children, they've always acknowledged it as unusual but apparently not enough to raise questions. I guess as he's so bright and has still managed to achieve high scores, they assume there can't be any underlying issues like ADHD, although those problems associated with it have definitely become more obvious as he's got older and demands have been greater, eg in creative writing and comprehension, where he's really struggled to produce work.

 

Mind you, I can't really pass judgement on the quality of his school work because I STILL haven't been given his workbooks, four months after he left. I have seen very little evidence of what he's produced.

 

Thanks for replying

Karen

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[KarenT]

I presume you have looked at his diet and tried fish oils?

 

If the school did not meet his AS needs, the doctors do not have a baseline to see what behaviours are then "left over" and if these fit in with ADHD.

 

Does he go to any clubs or similar that could back you up?

Yes, he's been on Eskimo Kids for four years, takes a good quality probiotic and has had a trial on gluten free. Eats a very plain and restricted diet, doesn't like sweets, crisps or pop - quite healthy really.

 

I agree with what you're saying about needs not being met in school, that's a very valid point, and I'll remember that for future assessments

 

He goes to lots of clubs including two run by charities (one a large national beginning with . Both have submitted reports but have been ignored. At the assessment, I asked the psych to approach them for discussion but she didn't, and the only people she spoke to were from the school, including the Ed Psych who'd never met J, nor even attended any meetings about him. It's been very one-sided. I'm considering gathering up a portfolio of reports from everywhere he goes (including Home Ed lessons, where he's a nightmare) to show for future assessments.

 

We've literally done everything outside of medication. B's (charity) even use my strategies when meeting parents new to diagnosis, and I'm sometimes asked to give training or advice to youth clubs etc. I know we've come as far as we can with behaviour management and J needs medical help. It seems we'll have to go for second opinion or even privately to get it.

 

Thanks Kazzen, appreciate your help.

x

[JsMum]

 

 

who filled in the connors rating scale at school, is it someone with experience of ADHD, and someone who had regular contact with your son.

 

I cant believe that a Ed psych hasnt even observed or seen your son, I would urge this be done in the second opinion.

 

I would write down a list of key behaviours of your sons and decribe as much as possible in detail why it is you feel that he does have ADHD and then request in writing a second opinion and prefrably in an assessment unit, where there is trained Proffessionals that can assess properly.

 

Keep a daily diary, and just keep collecting evidence.

 

I would also look at private assessments too, even if its along side the NHS Referral, though the NHS referals can take up to 18months just waiting to be assessed.

 

ADDISS may be able to help you further with second referrals, diagnosis route and medications as well as well recognised books on ADHD and how to support a child with it, or suspected.

 

Good Luck, let me know how you get on.

 

JsMum