Do you believe in Psychics ?

[**Mia]

Hello,

 

I am not really sure where to post this, but it is Off topic from Autism.

 

 

I was watching this video the other day which I often do with my interests of singing, and became so amazed at the similarity of this artist singing to one of our relatives that passed away almost a decade ago. I had to show the video to my mum to see what she thought, because you would never believe it until you see it how similar she is to my mum and her twin.

 

Well, sometimes things do happen for a reason and this particular time we believe there was a message in it for my mother, and it was only in watching this video, did the penny drop, that there was some truth to what the Psychic had been saying to my aunt about her deceased daughter and my mums connection to her and her sister.

 

The Psychic came out with the most amazing story about my mum and her twin that died. As I said my aunt sought this lady or Psychic through a group called compassionate friends to help her to feel a connectedness with her deceased daughter. Many have found healing by going through this process to get some guidance.

 

I hope I don't upset anyone discussing this here. I guess perhaps, its more a curiosity of experiences. The women came highly recommended by people that belonged to a support group called compassionate friends. So there was this feeling of trust. About a year ago, my aunt played the recording of the session, and the Psychic actually mentioned my mum by name, she actually crossed over an issue that we now know to be a awareness of my mother having Autism and a host of other things that apparently my mums twins spirit is around her because she feels the love there and with her cousin. But her spirit isnt happy around her mum because of the anger still there around her death with the mother and father.

 

So this video of my surprise released a lot of information about that psychic reading and at first my mum was really angry because she never believed in this sort of thing, but something truly strange happened today with watching this movie and the message of the psychic finally came out. Word for word, what was said on the Psychics tape hit my mum like a big whoosh of information and she just sobbed, but then, she smiled and was walking around the place like someone had given her a wonder drug, the video, the reading tape, all spoke to my mum about a dilemma in her love/health/relationships and it was all revealed on the cd, but this video, made something click, like dejarvue.... now I am totally into it because, I also can see its relevance and am totally thrilled that this can happen. But as well as this, it was the timing of it all, my mum was locked in a vacuum of uncertainty over a couple of issues in her life, and its like someone just gave her the lottery ticket she had been waiting for. Answers to some close to the core issues especially to do with her Autism. Now, on top of this, I am worrying if I have caused her any harm, because it may have stirred up a lot of emotions, but, it has too be good don't you think.

 

Has this ever happened to any of you?

 

Mia

[baddad]

Hi Mia -

 

In MY opinion (so I'm not challenging what anyone else might choose to believe) Psychics etc are a bunch of dangerous and self-serving people who take advantage of other people's grief/tragedy. At best they do this for selfish and delusional reasons (they actually believe the rubbish they are spouting themselves) but at worst they are con artists profiteering from other people's misery. They are dangerous because their stock in trade is 'cold reading' (either deliberately or unconsciously) what people want and then giving it to them. The choices people make based on those 'facts from beyond the grave' can ruin lives.

 

People like James Randi and Derran Brown have demonstrated time and time again how vague readings - often self contradictory readings - are interpreted as solid facts; how the same piece of writing, given randomly to 100 different people, will be interpreted by each as a personal and intimate message. Human beings are animals, no matter how 'evolved' we might like to feel we are we respond instinctively to certain stimuli in the same way that animals do. An animal trainer makes us believe that the animals instincts are something he has 'trained' it to perform, and uses the animals own psychology to confuse it about the natural order of the world (which is why a Bengal tiger will fear a five and a half foot tall abuser with a whip).

 

Psychic will say that people who don't believe are 'narrow minded'... in actual fact, the opposite is true, because the one thing no psychic will do is open their mind to the possibility that they themselves are delusional or just plain 'wrong', despite all the evidence that communication from 'beyond the grave' etc etc does not happen. Every high-ranking spiritualist who is shown to be a liar and a cheat is, somehow(????), reinvented as proof that the 'movement' is targeted by Charlatan's, and that the existence of those charlatan's somehow authenticates the rest. The reality, of course, is that the rest just haven't been caught yet.

 

For anyone who feels the need to ask ME 'well how do you explain this?' please don't I don't need to explain why jelly wobbles to know it wobbles. For anyone who does want to know why it wobbles, there are people like James Randi and Derran Brown who can explain it very well. For anyone who wants to believe that it doesn't wobble or that its wobble is evidence of a force unknown to science, that's fine to.

 

L&P

 

BD

[TheNeil]

If there are any psychics out there...then you'll already know whether I believe in you or not (and thinking rude words isn't the same as actually saying them so I can't be arrested )

 

Some people may believe in it but, personally, I don't.

[Kathryn]

If there are true psychics out there why aren't they all lottery winning billionaires? Surely they must be able to predict the numbers every week?

 

?

 

 

K x

[baddad]

If there are true psychics out there why aren't they all lottery winning billionaires? Surely they must be able to predict the numbers every week?

 

?

 

 

K x

 

Ahhhh... It doesn't work that way... the powers won't work for 'personal gain' (although how they qualify that with 'cross my palm with silver' or 'donations' is never quite made clear)...

Of course, the really cynical would ask 'well why don't they dp the lottery numbers for someone else and then just do the same numbers? I mean, HALF of the jackpot's not to be sniffed at, is it?

 

Mind you, there is one thing that does back up their claims:

 

Of anyone who gets 'taken' by one of these people for a massive fortune it would be fair to say 'they must have seen you coming'

 

Sorry, Mia gone a bit off topic... looked at in another way, I suppose any belief system

- whether it be God, science or scientology - can be helpful and reassuring for those in crisis. That in itself is no bad thing, so long as it's kept within perspective.

 

L&P

 

BD

[chris54]

Apparently according to something I heard on the radio the other day we, humans are programmed to believe in all this sort of thing.

 

I for one believe, I believe we get one life and should make the most of it. And that's it. Don't look back, look to the future.

[Tally]

I for one believe, I believe we get one life and should make the most of it. And that's it. Don't look back, look to the future.

I think, if you followed that advice, and then found out you'd been wrong about only getting one life, you would not have lost out!

[**Mia]

Hello,

 

Its good to see people are as sceptical as I am because this was the attitude we have too.

 

This is the thing, I am trying to make sense of and wonder, if this woman was a prank, how did she manage to name my mum in full. Just talking it over with mum we keep coming back to, how could she know personal aspects of my mother that were so close to the core or truth.

 

She may have done some research on the funeral notice to see my mothers name there. My aunts wording in her funeral notice is the only thing that could give her the name. She didnt guess my mums name, she said it straight out, and my aunt was listening but cautiously didnt give her anything to draw conclusions with. She knew my mother and her troubled life and mentioned her social anxiety with men. That she had trouble knowing how to go about finding the right man. All this is truly to do with my mum's Autism. How do you ignore this information which my aunt talked to my mum about when they sat down and listened to it. My mum was furious with the psychic and my aunt for feeling she had to point out the obvious problems my mum was facing. This is why my mum, was sobbing really, because when she heard it first instance she was just really angry, but, something in this music video linked the story of her spirit being around my mum trying to be with my mum, and this is what had us both in tears because, what the psychic was saying was in actual fact completely true about mum, and the key thing to mum realising her connection to this and Autism. It was after hearing this account of her personality and my aunt agreed, my mum was too shy.

 

Anyway, poor mum, has been thinking about all this more so than she should have, and i think it ultimately pushed her to seek a diagnosis for Autism, because thats when the alarm bells went off for her, she had a real problem interacting with males and females, its wasn't just men. We think it really brought all the past flooding back for her. So is this a good thing or a bad thing. In the end, it did help mum face her true anxieties she was suffering with in silence. So even if this woman is a con, some good came out of it for mum, and she would not have taken account of it, if she hadnt mentioned my mums name straight out. She went on about my mum for about five minutes because she was worried about my mum and that she had really suffered all her life. Go figure.... a bit hard to push under to carpet, or just coincidence I guess. As you said Baddad, they are well trained to talk about how to make Jelly wobble, well she managed to make my mum wobble and my aunt and nanna they were all in tears when they listened because they all said this is mum.

 

We believe some have some gifts as you see on some of those shows when they are put to the test, and this particular women, just had a good day perhaps or as you say Baddad, could read my aunts face and ran with it. We were not there so its hard to know if my aunt gave some facial expressions that she picked up on.

 

I don't know where I stand on this now.

 

Mia

 

 

 

[Tally]

It sounds as though your mum and your entire family are very vulnerable at the moment, and this psychic seems to have stirred up a lot of matters which have made your family feel even more vulnerable, which could give her the opportunity to take advantage. Unless she also has training as a psychologist, I don't think she is really capable of helping your mother with the emotions she is stirring up. I think you really need to wait until you are all mentally stronger before messing with this.

[baddad]

Hi Mia - There are all sorts of places personal information can come from: people do not need to be told things directly - they can evesdrop on conversations, have other 'spotters' in the room who do that for them, etc etc.

She may have done some research on the funeral notice to see my mothers name there. My aunts wording in her funeral notice is the only thing that could give her the name. She didnt guess my mums name, she said it straight out, and my aunt was listening but cautiously didnt give her anything to draw conclusions with

.

 

Ask a couple of innocuous questions of the right people under the guise of concern and they can learn a bit more, and a bit more, and a bit more, until they are able to build a pretty convincing profile.... On the internet it's called 'grooming' but it's exactly the same process...

the stuff that seems so relevent to your mum is the universal stuff that everyone will recognise: any woman who did not meet/marry and live happily ever after with her first boyfriend will identify with

She knew my mother and her troubled life and mentioned her social anxiety with men. That she had trouble knowing how to go about finding the right man. All this is truly to do with my mum's Autism.

and it is not truly related to autism at all. It's just the human condition, and pretty much every man and woman on the planet will identify with it... In the billion to one case that they don't then the emphasis is shifted either to 'downgrade' the suggestion ("ah, yes, I can see that only applies to friendships for you, not love interests - you have been very lucky in that regard") or to make it a near miss ("ah yes, that wasn't you - it was your sister/mother/brother/cousin"). Unfortunately, rather than this shifting 'blowing' it for them the shift is usually interpreted as even more evidence of how 'accurate' they are...

As I say - no one here can possibly answer all your questions, they can only say that it IS a trick. i do not know, for example, how Houdini could appear to hold his breath under water for ten minutes, but i know it was a trick. go to a book shop and by the best book you can find on charlatanism and give it to your mum. The answers will be there (not specifically, but the bare bones of how the effect is achieved).

 

At it's simplest, think of a vegetable:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Carrot.

 

That will be right for about 80% of the population. It's not mind reading, or psychic power - it's just word association and universal experience.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Mumble]

At it's simplest, think of a vegetable:

I thought of an orange.

 

Well you got the colour right, but I may need to see a brain specialist...

 

 

Oh, and to answer the title question of this thread, no.

 

[**Mia]

It sounds as though your mum and your entire family are very vulnerable at the moment, and this psychic seems to have stirred up a lot of matters which have made your family feel even more vulnerable, which could give her the opportunity to take advantage. Unless she also has training as a psychologist, I don't think she is really capable of helping your mother with the emotions she is stirring up. I think you really need to wait until you are all mentally stronger before messing with this.

 

Thank you Tally, and thank you all, for sharing your views about this. Its my fault I failed to mention this lady is not like the type you see at the local community markets or random adds in the papers. She in fact is held in high esteem and its easy to jump on this from that angle, however, the Compassionate Friends program my aunt attends gave this recommendation and is highly respected in her field. But not the field of Quackery, as I quickly jumped to this conclusion. Just upon the feedback we have at hand. But you are very correct Tally, if it is stirring emotions as stro ng as my mums, the family should have the commonsense to realise how damaging this is to mum's health, especially being made to sit and listen to a cd like this. It is very damaging and I do agree, this is not right for our mum not like this. On so many levels it is wrong, but, on so many levels, it is right, but only if you are prepared to seek this information. In my mothers case the timing was very bad, but our aunt thought she was doing my mum a favour, but she was very vulnerable and in a fragile state at this time - well, they all were and still are as you say, and it may have positive resolutions when the timing is right. I think the only way to move forward here is for my mum to see this lady herself, by herself, let her decide, but I will definitely be tagging along maybe out of personal interest more than anything else. Just to understand if there is some benefit to healing families that have had such a tragic loss like this. It is a very tender subject but there is a lot of confidence in this professionals credentials I have been corrected.

 

I would appreciate, if there are others that have had a experience on this level please pm me how it helped you. I would be really grateful to understand. It is a very private situation you may not feel comfortable discussing on an open forum, but, your personal thoughts or experiences on the 'process' and how it helped you or your family could really help here.

 

Thanks again in sharing and the humour too, you need to maintain a sense of humour I guess.

 

Mia

[bid]

I've been reading this thread with interest!

 

I think that things like yoga, reiki, etc, can be lovely if that's your sort of thing (I do like a joss stick! )...

 

But I was very upset by a crystal healer/medium last year

 

If your mother is autistic Mia, I would be very wary of taking her to see this woman. I have a dx of AS, and I found the experience very intrusive on a sensory overload level and I ended up feeling even worse about myself than before

 

Echoing BD's comments, this person did a whole thing about how he 'knew' the minute I walked into the centre that I needed 'help'...well, my life was pretty crappo at the time, so I'm sure my body language, etc, was easy to read.

 

I ended up basically running out of the centre and it really dented my already pretty non-existent confidence I can laugh about the experience now as I have a few dear colleagues who helped put it into perspective, but it did upset me for a long time.

 

So, I would say think very carefully about whether it's a good idea for your mum to see this woman.

 

Boho

Edited March 18, 2009 by bid

[**Mia]

Thank you bid you have a good point there.

I am rushing to pack to spend four days with family interstate and I would really enjoy talking with you about this and Autism, but, I don't want to respond in a rush. I will be home on Monday and will pop in then because it has been helpful and interesting.

 

Thank you

 

Mia

[**Mia]

Hi Mia -

 

In MY opinion (so I'm not challenging what anyone else might choose to believe) Psychics etc are a bunch of dangerous and self-serving people who take advantage of other people's grief/tragedy. At best they do this for selfish and delusional reasons (they actually believe the rubbish they are spouting themselves) but at worst they are con artists profiteering from other people's misery. They are dangerous because their stock in trade is 'cold reading' (either deliberately or unconsciously) what people want and then giving it to them. The choices people make based on those 'facts from beyond the grave' can ruin lives.

 

Psychic will say that people who don't believe are 'narrow minded'... in actual fact, the opposite is true, because the one thing no psychic will do is open their mind to the possibility that they themselves are delusional or just plain 'wrong', despite all the evidence that communication from 'beyond the grave' etc etc does not happen. Every high-ranking spiritualist who is shown to be a liar and a cheat is, somehow(????), reinvented as proof that the 'movement' is targeted by Charlatan's, and that the existence of those charlatan's somehow authenticates the rest. The reality, of course, is that the rest just haven't been caught yet.

 

For anyone who feels the need to ask ME 'well how do you explain this?' please don't I don't need to explain why jelly wobbles to know it wobbles. For anyone who does want to know why it wobbles, there are people like James Randi and Derran Brown who can explain it very well. For anyone who wants to believe that it doesn't wobble or that its wobble is evidence of a force unknown to science, that's fine to.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

 

Hello, sorry I was away and just had a moment to come back here. Highlighting your points here baddad Having been away and had more time with my mum to talk about this, she is in the mindset that, sometimes, when someone is grieving and are trying to make sense of everything when there has been a tragedy like this in the family, she feels even though most would see it as a con which it often is, there is something, comforting, even though you know it is bogus, to feel like you have some moment of connection with a loved one, in say out of the ordinary day to day chaos, something gives you a moment of connection with a lost loved one, a sense of peace and healing comes to the pit of your stomach, and a page in a chapter is able to be written so that chapter can be closed. Truth or rubbish, its just having the sense of feeling a last farewell or being told of a stage a person is in this transition, something is better than nothing in the healing, and mum thinks it helps them close that chapter of their lives that was once so huge and now so lost. So if it helps someone complete a proccess of grieving and making sense of some blank spots, it maybe a good thing as long as you let it go and not be ruled by it. If it is a step forward or a way forward, something positive has been achieved if it is bringing about healing, and acceptance and peace.

 

Thanks for opening your experiences and thoughts and knowledge.

 

We agree, this door must be closed and the key tossed away. Going back to these sorts of people from here on would be madness.

 

Whats done is done, and now she has said no more. It would just inflame things all over again like you all say.

 

Thanking you all,

 

Mia <'>