DAUGHTER'S INSULTS GET HER INTO TROUBLE 'AGAIN'

[vicbee]

I am so fed up of the head teacher approaching me after school (in the school yard with other parents around) to tell me yet again that my daughter has been insulting another child. Another 'larger' girl has been the on the end of my daughter's insults. She has told this bigger girl that she is fat and she needs to eat less and she will get skinny (my daughter is severely underweight due to her fear of solid foods). We had the same problem when she first started at the school in September when another large girl was told by my daughter that 'she is a bit fat'. I am so fed up of it. I do not condone this behaviour, I hate any sort of prejudice and I am just so embarrased by her behaviour. I feel so ashamed of her. This latest incident had the girl's mum in at school complaining because her daughter was so upset and I dont blame her. These kids have enough confidence issues without my daughter throwing a spanner in the works but I really find it hard to justify it with her condition. She had a good talking to after the first incident by myself and the head and I dont think she gets it at all. Even the head said that she doesnt realise what she is doing/saying. But you would think that after telling her so many times she would realise. I dont know what to think. The problem is, she started at this new school in September last year repeating year 6. She is to start high school at a special school september coming. Since she started at this current school, she has ostracised herself from absolutely every child because of her insults and horribleness. I just keep thinking, she only has a couple of months left and then in September she will be getting proper support at the special school. At the moment, because she has only just been diagnosed and her final statement is not through yet, not a lot has been done with her and i think the school has the attitude of 'well, she will be gone in a couple of months time and she wont be our problem anymore' because even though they put a load of 'goals' in her IEP and were supposed to be taking advice on doing social stories with her, they havent done a thing with her and i felt like saying to the head today - 'it might help if you put a few things in place like you were supposed to, to try to get her to recognise her behaviour is wrong' but I cannot be bothered fighting with them. I have spent the past year since returning from Spain fighting for her diagnosis and statement - which we now have and i really cannot be bothered fighting with this school for the sake of a couple of months and in a way i just feel like telling them to get on with it and deal with it but i have to look at the parent's faces every morning and Ijust feel so ashamed of my child. I hate it when my daughter gets insulted and bullied and I dont think it is fair that any child should have to go through that. I was so angry with her today when we came out of school. She was crying and saying how much she hates the school and that no one wants to play with her and no one wants to be her friend. I feel so sorry for her because she doesnt know how to be a friend but desparately wants to be but just fails miserably at it because of her poor social skills. she just wanders round the playground at lunchtime on her own even though she wants to join in. When she tries to talk to the teacher on the playground to pass the time she gets told to 'go and find someone to play with'. Are these people thick or what? That is her problem, she doesnt know how to socialise. It enfuriates me.

 

Anyone else have this same problem with the 'bluntness' at school which keeps on getting them into trouble?

[bid]

Could you write a social story for her perhaps?

 

Sorry things aren't so good, but glad to hear you have got a special school place for September.

 

Bid

[hamish]

I am so fed up of the head teacher approaching me after school (in the school yard with other parents around) to tell me yet again that my daughter has been insulting another child. Another 'larger' girl has been the on the end of my daughter's insults. She has told this bigger girl that she is fat and she needs to eat less and she will get skinny (my daughter is severely underweight due to her fear of solid foods). We had the same problem when she first started at the school in September when another large girl was told by my daughter that 'she is a bit fat'. I am so fed up of it. I do not condone this behaviour, I hate any sort of prejudice and I am just so embarrased by her behaviour. I feel so ashamed of her. This latest incident had the girl's mum in at school complaining because her daughter was so upset and I dont blame her. These kids have enough confidence issues without my daughter throwing a spanner in the works but I really find it hard to justify it with her condition. She had a good talking to after the first incident by myself and the head and I dont think she gets it at all. Even the head said that she doesnt realise what she is doing/saying. But you would think that after telling her so many times she would realise. I dont know what to think. The problem is, she started at this new school in September last year repeating year 6. She is to start high school at a special school september coming. Since she started at this current school, she has ostracised herself from absolutely every child because of her insults and horribleness. I just keep thinking, she only has a couple of months left and then in September she will be getting proper support at the special school. At the moment, because she has only just been diagnosed and her final statement is not through yet, not a lot has been done with her and i think the school has the attitude of 'well, she will be gone in a couple of months time and she wont be our problem anymore' because even though they put a load of 'goals' in her IEP and were supposed to be taking advice on doing social stories with her, they havent done a thing with her and i felt like saying to the head today - 'it might help if you put a few things in place like you were supposed to, to try to get her to recognise her behaviour is wrong' but I cannot be bothered fighting with them. I have spent the past year since returning from Spain fighting for her diagnosis and statement - which we now have and i really cannot be bothered fighting with this school for the sake of a couple of months and in a way i just feel like telling them to get on with it and deal with it but i have to look at the parent's faces every morning and Ijust feel so ashamed of my child. I hate it when my daughter gets insulted and bullied and I dont think it is fair that any child should have to go through that. I was so angry with her today when we came out of school. She was crying and saying how much she hates the school and that no one wants to play with her and no one wants to be her friend. I feel so sorry for her because she doesnt know how to be a friend but desparately wants to be but just fails miserably at it because of her poor social skills. she just wanders round the playground at lunchtime on her own even though she wants to join in. When she tries to talk to the teacher on the playground to pass the time she gets told to 'go and find someone to play with'. Are these people thick or what? That is her problem, she doesnt know how to socialise. It enfuriates me.

 

Anyone else have this same problem with the 'bluntness' at school which keeps on getting them into trouble?

Hi

 

Sorry I don't have any advice really but just wanted to sympathise. I have a lot of trouble with my 5yr old being insulting but because of his age people seem willing to overlook it. I worry what will happen when he is older. Hope things improve at your daughters new school. Try and hang on in there <'>

 

S x

[Emma_74]

i have the same trouble with my son but after talking to him he doesn't realise what he has said is insulting he doesn't mean it to be he just says im only telling the truth and doesn't see why people get upset about what he is saying

[Suze]

What does the school do to show her that what she has done is wrong??..........is she punished for it?

 

.........you could suggest the school get her to write a letter of apology to this girl.

My son is in a specialized high school environment and I,m sorry to say , please don,t think this will automatically get easier when she goes there.For instance if another pupil told another they were fat they,d get a refferal and very stern talking too.They,d also probably get a thump off the other child too.Being around other kids with special needs does make things easier in some ways for our kids.But also it can make things harder too.At your transition meeting for high school try to go through all these scenarios etc and you may find the new school has some good ideas of how to deal with it.

I really hope you can get her to realise this is hurtful to others.If she understands try to get her to reasearch stuff on the net about eating habits etc , and health conditions that can make people overweight.If she learns more about it she may be more understanding herself.Best of luck with it, suzex

[vicbee]

 

What does the school do to show her that what she has done is wrong??..........is she punished for it?

 

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Just reading this post and thought - exactly - what have the school done to show her this is wrong? They talked to her - but time and time again this proves to not make any difference whatsoever - and for the obvious reasons - her condition doesnt allow to understand by verbally expressing this. so whilst reading this post, (and all night I was thinking about what I should do - and that included going in to see the head again on the bounce asking them why they havent put any of her IEP goals in place etc etc) but now I have just thought, I will go in on Monday and kindly suggest they sit and do a social story with her like they were supposed to be doing. She will not get the message by verbal communication alone. I have decided to talk to the mum and express my sincere apologies for my daughters behaviour. I really hate this sort of behaviour and I want the mum to know that my daughter has been punished for it. There are too many parents out there who think that their children do no wrong and I would certainly appreciate an apology on the parent's behalf if it were the other way round.

 

I said to the headteacher a few months back when all these incidences started happening that I would like them to keep me informed of what happens but for them to deal with her school problems at school and I will deal with her home problems at home. I said this because what I didnt want was my daughter to not trust the head or her teacher incase she ever she had a problem and needed to speak to them. I felt that if they told my daughter they would not tell me and then I suddenly brought it up at home and punished her for it at home, then she would lose trust in that teacher. Its a bit difficult to explain but that was my train of thought. As it happens on this one, I couldnt let it go. They havent punished her for it at school in any shape or form and they should be doing. I will suggest to the head that some sort of punishment should be given in the future - I mean surely they have procedures in place for this sort of thing. They are only a small school of 49 and they dont really seem to have major issues with bullying at all. Maybe its a case of they do not want to punish her incase I kick off, but I wouldnt.

 

We will see, in the meantime over the weekend, if anyone can suggest another way of approaching this with the head over punishment etc please let me know.

 

Thanks for your comments.

Edited April 25, 2009 by vicbee

[chris54]

If she had remarked to a tall person about there height it would have just been seen as a comment, but tell a fat person they are fat, something we can all see, something we all know is not a good thing, make a suggestion how to avoid being fat and this is seen a an insult, why.

 

It may not be what the fat person wants to hear but should we punish a child for stating to truth.

Not having an understanding of social necessity's should not be a reason for being punished.

[Kazzen161]

She is not insulting them - she is just stating a fact (in her perception).

 

You need to try to explain that there are certain things that it is best not to say, even if you think them - basically it is called tact. It took my son about 10 years to learn it. It is a drip-drip process. Other children have to learn it too, but they tend to learn it more quickly.

 

One day he said "I didn't like the present that X got me, but I just said thank you". That was a major achievement!

[bid]

If she had remarked to a tall person about there height it would have just been seen as a comment, but tell a fat person they are fat, something we can all see, something we all know is not a good thing, make a suggestion how to avoid being fat and this is seen a an insult, why.

 

It may not be what the fat person wants to hear but should we punish a child for stating to truth.

Not having an understanding of social necessity's should not be a reason for being punished.

 

Sorry Chris, but I have to disagree with you and I think Vicbee is completely right here.

 

How would you feel if another child really upset your child with comments about their appearance? Or extrapolating things, comments about them having a 'disability'?

 

I have a dx of AS, and I know that at times I have blurted something out about a colleague's appearance that has upset them, and I have been mortified. Even if my observation was correct, why would I want to hurt someone's feelings? And I have been extremely upset by comments about my appearance over the years, too.

 

Bid

Edited April 25, 2009 by bid

[chris54]

I can only repeat:-

 

Not having an understanding of social necessity's should not be a reason for being punished.

 

[Suze]

If she had remarked to a tall person about there height it would have just been seen as a comment, but tell a fat person they are fat, something we can all see, something we all know is not a good thing, make a suggestion how to avoid being fat and this is seen a an insult, why.

 

It may not be what the fat person wants to hear but should we punish a child for stating to truth.

Not having an understanding of social necessity's should not be a reason for being punished.

 

...................her daughter is stating the truth, but at the same time is hurting someone elses feelings and upsetting them.I think its improtant that kids learn to keep comments like this to themselves.When my son was a little younger he would very often blurt out things he should have kept to himself.Such as ...eurgh he smells, ...... that person is an idiot (said within earshot of a smoker)........did you see the size of that mans belly!

 

............the thing is if they don,t learn then at some point , maybe when they are older they are gonna say something and get themselves into a fight and serious trouble.

 

[chris54]

............the thing is if they don,t learn then at some point , maybe when they are older they are gonna say something and get themselves into a fight and serious trouble.

 

Yes but you don't teach them by punishing them.

 

If a child cant read it does not mater how many times you punish them they sill cant read so why is it any different with anything else that has to be learnt.

[bid]

If she had remarked to a tall person about there height it would have just been seen as a comment, but tell a fat person they are fat, something we can all see, something we all know is not a good thing, make a suggestion how to avoid being fat and this is seen a an insult, why.

 

It may not be what the fat person wants to hear but should we punish a child for stating to truth.

Not having an understanding of social necessity's should not be a reason for being punished.

 

Sorry Chris, I was really replying to the first part of your comment in relation to hurting other people's feelings.

 

I agree that a 'punishment' is not appropriate, but neither is saying that they are just 'stating the truth' as though that absolves them of any responsibility for upsetting another child. They need to be helped to an understanding of social necessities as far as is possible...we are probably saying the same thing

 

Bid

Edited April 25, 2009 by bid

[Suze]

Yes but you don't teach them by punishing them.

 

If a child cant read it does not mater how many times you punish them they sill cant read so why is it any different with anything else that has to be learnt.

 

sorry chris but the only time I mentioned a punishment was when I suggested that her daughter write a letter of apology, and if she continues to make such comments at her new high school she may find herself being punished then, by the teachers there.

 

 

[chris54]

sorry chris but the only time I mentioned a punishment was when I suggested that her daughter write a letter of apology, and if she continues to make such comments at her new high school she may find herself being punished then, by the teachers there.

 

I often get into trouble by my use of the word punishment.

 

If I was a child made to write a letter of apology for something I had done I would think it a punishment.

 

But I will leave it there.

[vicbee]

Hello, now that you've all finished disagreeing with eachother on here....!!!!.....LOL.... I have decided to just leave things and not speak to the mum. I spoke to my mum this morning and she made a very valid point - one that Chris may agree with. My mum has a bee in her bonnet at the moment (and especially after watching 'The Hospital' last week about childhood obesity) that the overweight child that my daughter 'insulted' will be going off to high school next year and is going to get called a lot worse than what my daughter said, on a daily basis probably and really, if the parent is so concerned about this then maybe she should be looking at why her child is being called fat and taking some responsibility for the fact that her child is overweight. Is she going to run into the school every time someone says something to her when she is at high school? And that will be from children who know what they are saying and not from a child with ASD who cannot help it. Now please don't anyone jump in here and get on the obesity debate - I am someone who has been obese for many years and has finally done something about it and lost 3 stone and continuing - but it was my fault i was the size i was, so I dont want to get into that one with anybody please.

 

The other point is, my daughter is seriously underweight due to an eating disorder associated with her ASD and she gets called skinny and anorexic on a daily basis and she has a severe psychological issue with food and her weight but nobody says anything about the taunts my daughter gets, least of all me, as I know there is nothing you can do to stop children saying the things they do. I punished my daughter this weekend by banning her from doing the things she loves doing like playing on her WII and nintentdo etc but the more i listened to my mums point this morning, the more guilty I felt for punishing her like this. Like i said previously, I do not think her condition should be used to justify bad behaviour all the time and there are instances where our children do push things and do things that are naughty and they do know what they are doing but my daughter told my mum over the weekend why she had done what she had done. She was in PE which is a particularly stressful class for her as she said she cannot understand what she has to do when everyone is shouting instructions at her and she also hates having to lie down on the floor. This particular girl who she had called fat had been bossing her about, telling her to do this, do that, she said the teachers had been getting on at her all morning and she had just hit out by saying what she said because she was so stressed and fed up. So although, she did know that she had said what she said on purpose her ASD again had an effect on the way she was feeling when she did it - feelings of anxiety, confusion etc had all played a part. But how on earth could I explain that to the mother of the girl in question...so the best thing for me to do is just ignore it although I will be asking the school to deal with it better next time by doing a social story or something with her.

 

Oh, the despair!!!!.....roll on July!!

Edited April 27, 2009 by vicbee