Working as a manager with AS

[Zakkala]

[KezT]

If you choose to believe that a self diagnosed adult who works, drives, pays rent, has a relationship and negotiates most areas of their lives relatively successfully is experiencing the 'same' difficulties in life as someone living by necessity in residential care with round the clock support and very little real control over their own lives whatsoever, that's fine.

 

That is not at all what I said. If you read my post it says "If you have "enough" traits to be dx'd, it is obviously enough to affect your daily life ". I was assuming a medical dx, not a self one. Without disregarding the many difficulties adults on here may have met in their lives, anyone can dx themselves with anything, especially considering, as I said, pretty much everyone has some ASD traits, and some MH traits, and some depression traits, ad infinitum LOL. The internet has much to say for it, but a lot to answer for too.

 

the effect may not necessarily be in the same way for everyone with a diagnosed ASD, but it is difficult to classify as "mild" or severe" in many, if not most cases.

 

However, an ASD adult who has found a specific lifestyle that they can lead within the larger NT community is not necessarily "mild" - just lucky. If you take them out of their tiny world, they may well crumble into a head banging, middle distance staring mute. how do you know? I certainly know of people who work in a specific place doing a specific thing, with a very small number of specific people, who live independantly and pay rent, and even socialise in a rather boring and ordered fashion (my NT perception) - but take them 1/2 mile away from their house in the opposite direction from work/local pub, and they turn into a quivering statue of indecision.

[bid]

Zakkala <'>

 

You started a perfectly sensible thread about the difficulties faced by those of us with AS who are line managers within our jobs.

 

Sorry that it's been driven right off topic

 

Please add any more comments or questions and I'll certainly do my best to respond from my perspective. One thing I think that is very relevant: I think someone with AS can be a very effective manager in a particular situation (such as myself), but placed in another working environment, they would fail dismally (me, too! ).

 

Bid

[NobbyNobbs]

On topic at last. i manage my church's sunday school (not a real job but i'll get to that) including 7 other adults, and 20+ kids, which i do with great success because i am interested in childrens education and have a passion that seems to rise above AS. however, i cannot hold down a full time job in another area, let alone manage a group of people because i just dont have the confidence, or ability to tolerate people who dont do things properly. i've been told by numerous 'knowledgable' people' that i cannot become a teacher because of my AS (i would be unable to tolerate the parents rather than the kids apparently) which is very disappointing, but if you're managing your job and can see yourself being happy to carry on doing so, then AS shouldn't be a barrier. getting a piece of paper that says you have AS doesn't mean you suddenly develop every single symptom - although it can sometimes feel like that . as for telling your boss, thats up to you and how sympathetic you think they might be. some employers are great and are willing to try to adapt a job to make it more comfortable to you, others will see it as a reason why you are unsuited to the job.

[baddad]

However, an ASD adult who has found a specific lifestyle that they can lead within the larger NT community is not necessarily "mild" - just lucky. If you take them out of their tiny world, they may well crumble into a head banging, middle distance staring mute. how do you know? I certainly know of people who work in a specific place doing a specific thing, with a very small number of specific people, who live independantly and pay rent, and even socialise in a rather boring and ordered fashion (my NT perception) - but take them 1/2 mile away from their house in the opposite direction from work/local pub, and they turn into a quivering statue of indecision.

 

 

So 'lucky' ASD adults who have managed to create an artificial 'tiny world' for themselves are just nervous-breakdown's-in-waiting? One hell of a perspective there... I guess if they are really, really lucky they'll have some nice, neurotypical influences in their lives to stop them from becoming too boring and ordered? Don't quote me on it, but (IMO) I think to date that is just about the most offensive 'view' of autism I've encountered on these boards.

 

Zakalla - agree with bid's post about this being driven somewhat off topic. Apologies for contributing to that - I'll try to sit on my hands from this point on...

 

L&P

 

BD

[KezT]

So 'lucky' ASD adults who have managed to create an artificial 'tiny world' for themselves are just nervous-breakdown's-in-waiting? One hell of a perspective there... I guess if they are really, really lucky they'll have some nice, neurotypical influences in their lives to stop them from becoming too boring and ordered? Don't quote me on it, but (IMO) I think to date that is just about the most offensive 'view' of autism I've encountered on these boards.

 

Zakalla - agree with bid's post about this being driven somewhat off topic. Apologies for contributing to that - I'll try to sit on my hands from this point on...

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Oh FFS. Not all. SOME. what I am trying to say is that it is a SPECTRUM. what you consider "mild" may only be your perspective of a single circumstance. Or not. Note the word necessarily I think that going to the same pub, and drinking the same drink out of the same glass with the same people at the same time each week would be extremely boring for ME - not for you, or anyone else. I wouldn't stop anyone doing it, or insist they go partying at the local nightclub instead - why should I? I say well done to ASD adults who have managed to find their niche in the wider world without (or indeed with) support. In fact, I say well done to anyone who has found thier niche - plenty don't!

 

However, I also think it is perfectly possible for many ASD adults to be sucessful and good managers, which is where this all started. Not just "mild" ASD adults, because that is patently a undefined term to use Obviously, non-verbal adults are unlikely to manage a team of people in the workplace but "severe" ASD adults could do, in the right environment. Yet by your definition, the fact that they can hold down a job precludes them from being "severe" - I just don't agree.

[bid]

Zakkala <'> (again!!)

 

This was your first thread here...I hope it won't be your last!

 

We really are a nice bunch here, if a teeny bit opinionated sometimes!!

 

Bet ya glad ya don't have to manage us lot!

 

Bid

[Mumble]

Zakkala <'> (again!!)

 

This was your first thread here...I hope it won't be your last!

 

We really are a nice bunch here, if a teeny bit opinionated sometimes!!

 

Bet ya glad ya don't have to manage us lot!

I ditto Bid and I hope you stay around to find out that most of us are totally mad a friendly bunch, just as Bid says a little opinionated (and I definitely include myself in that ). Maybe that should be another 'trait' we are rapidly adding to the new entry for diagnosing AS in the DSM-V whenever that is published!

 

I was actually thinking about this thread last night and wondering if a mod could separate it up a bit to make a separate thread for the OP - I was feeling guilty as I think I played a major role in going

 

Still it's been an interesting discussion...

 

[warrenpenalver]

most of us are totally mad a friendly bunch

that made me chuckle

 

 

[Zakkala]

Thanks for all the advice folks, it's appreciated.

 

In one of life's mysterious little coincidences, an old boss of mine (in the same company) has told me about some new analytical roles that are being recruited for in her new area of the business - roles that don't require you to manage anyone and would allow me to bury my head in data on a daily basis! So, my CV has today winged it's way to the Exec Director of the relevant Division and I'm holding my breath to see if I get an interview.

 

On the down side, I think I've really p*ssed off my current boss when I told him I'd done this (although he knows I'm not comfortable in my current role), and suspect my old boss may get in trouble for trying to poach me.

 

Hopefully it'll all work out, one way or another.

 

Also, on a better note, got my appointment date for my diagnostic assessment - 9th December, so in four months time I should know about the AS for sure one way or another. Letter from the consultant says they need my parents to fill out a questionnaire, which is fine as my mum's agreed to do it, but also that they'd usually like a parent to be there to be interviewed at the same time. I would rather not do this as my parents don't live near me and would have to travel a long way and I would also be monumentally uncomfortable having either of them there. I'll check with the consultant, but do you think not having a parent there would be a big deal if they have the completed questionnaire?

 

[bid]

That sounds like a most excellent solution all round!

 

My mother filled out a questionnaire and also came to my assessment. At times it was very upsetting hearing her talk about me as a child...nothing unkind or anything, just some of the things she remembered me doing and seeing how I appeared to her. She then left the assessment so that I could talk more freely with just my DH there.

 

I know Mumble was diagnosed at the same clinic as me, and she didn't have a parent with her. I guess you just need to check with your consultant.

 

Good luck with it all!

 

Bid

Edited August 12, 2009 by bid

[Tally]

Also, on a better note, got my appointment date for my diagnostic assessment - 9th December, so in four months time I should know about the AS for sure one way or another. Letter from the consultant says they need my parents to fill out a questionnaire, which is fine as my mum's agreed to do it, but also that they'd usually like a parent to be there to be interviewed at the same time. I would rather not do this as my parents don't live near me and would have to travel a long way and I would also be monumentally uncomfortable having either of them there. I'll check with the consultant, but do you think not having a parent there would be a big deal if they have the completed questionnaire?

It's probably best to contact the consultant and explain how far away your parents live. It may be possible for him to telephone them instead. That also resolves the issue of having them in your appointment with you!

[baddad]

Hi Zakkalla - Really hope the new role materialises for you, and very best with the pending consultation.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Mumble]

I know Mumble was diagnosed at the same clinic as me, and she didn't have a parent with her. I guess you just need to check with your consultant.

Yep. Essentially what they need to do in the course of the consultation and within the surrounding information is ensure evidence of the difficulties having presented across your lifespan, to explore developmental milestones (such as speech) and to ensure that issues are not temporary/related to a different condition. An AS dx is not something to be handed out lightly, hence they need to explore what else might be going on, whether a different dx fits better (and it's possible you could have co-morbids).

 

In my case my Mum didn't come as she refuses to believe my dx or that there is any issue, however she did complete the questionnaire and took very literally and with great glee the 'continue on a separate sheet if necessary' comment, writing a 20 page essay on my failings and on what a horrible child I was (and adult I am) . As my Mum was ever so slightly biased to the negative and I have no other older relatives who could complete the picture (they accept older siblings, but my older brother is severely autistic) they also used my school reports in the diagnostic process - having primary school reports from three different primary schools (my Mum moved me when problems got too severe or the school asked questions rather than seeking answers) that all read as diagnostic reports of my issues was certainly helpful.

 

For the assessment itself a tutor from my Uni came with me (as they had raised concerns and instigated, with my agreement, the dx process) and could add more info on recent issues and just generally provide support and be a pair of ears because I don't remember much of the consultation, I just remember the total feeling of numbness after leaving and walking back to the station. It'll be up to your preference and the consultant's way of working but having someone you know there may be helpful.

 

 

I wish you luck with your assessment and job situation. I have a year at Uni left and then have to work out what I do. I went back to uni because I wasn't coping with my professional job and the increased responsibility and management issues. I'm very stuck now in terms of being over-qualified. I'm so tempted if it were financially viable to start again on an entirely different career pathway (this time what I want rather than what others think I want ) partly because I want enjoyment in what I do, but mainly, if I'm honest, because it would give me a legitimate reason for starting at the bottom. Of course, what happens were I to be successful and more responsibility given and the same to happen, I don't know. I shall stop rambling (shame there isn't a career in that; it's something I do well! ) but I hope everything works out for you. I also hope we haven't put you off and you continue to post and let us know how you are getting on.

 

[Zakkala]

I'm so tempted if it were financially viable to start again on an entirely different career pathway (this time what I want rather than what others think I want ) partly because I want enjoyment in what I do, but mainly, if I'm honest, because it would give me a legitimate reason for starting at the bottom.

 

Totally know what you mean - I was put at risk of redundancy in February and the process wasn't completed until early May (I was one of the lucky ones and kept my job - although the feedback was that my interview was 'too good / too well prepared' and I wasn't 'Human' enough etc). During that time I had a lot of time to think about what I'd really like to do and although I couldn't make myself initiate a move by taking voluntary redundancy, I think that thought process was the start of where I am now and realising I might be better out of management.

 

Thanks for the input re the parental attendance at the assessment. Although my mum wasn't actively negative when I asked her to do the questionnaire, I think she thinks it's a 'phase' or one of my little projects. God forbid their only child should be anything other than the widely accepted 'norm'.

 

Have mailed my consultant re requirement to have a parent present - I do have all my old school reports knocking around somewhere so I can go and have a look through those to see if anything would be of use.

[bid]

Do let us know how things pan out at work, and with your assessment

 

Bid

[dee23]

Hi Zakkala

 

I have been reading your thread with great interest, and wanted to wish you luck with your assessment.

 

On the subject of management, from the employees perspective what i have always wanted from my management is for them to concentrate on management! I once worked under someone who was impossibly emotional, her decisions were based entirely on what she thought would make the other person happy, or on what she could emotionally cope with. She handled the referrals to my adult education groups, so i would get completely unsuitable people, or people on a completely unsuitable course, because they had asked and she couldn't say "no". She also got very bogged down in the personal problems of my assisstant, and therefore couldn't, and wouldn't, support me when i had difficulties with his behavior at work. I think some of the advice you have had regarding questions to ask of people at work to appear more personal has been very good. There will always be people under you who will expect more, but that is more the fault of their expectations in my opinion. You are not there to be their friend after all!

 

Anyway, good luck with the assessment, and with the change in job, if it happens. It does sound like it would be ideal.

 

[NobbyNobbs]

my mother attended my diagnosis thing with me, but we were in seperate rooms the whole time. she went off with one dr, and i kept the other one with me. this seemed mostly to be so that the psychiatrist speaking to me could ask some painfully embarassing questions, and the other person could ask my mom stuff without me knowing. we met up at the end and they told me the diagnosis, but didn't mention any of the stuff that had been discussed in either room in detail. i would imagine they can diagnose without a parent (orphans must get diagnosed) but i know that they prefer to have early childlhood information to give a firm diagnosis as thats one of the criteria.

[Guest featherways]

It would not be expected that most forum members are able to quote this level of research in all their posts. If you want people to know that all of your posts relate to this level of research, you are going to have to make that plain every time because it is not something people would naturally assume when they read a post on an internet forum.

 

I'm not sure that being this well-read means everything you say is correct and mustn't be challenged. It just means that you are going to ignore the challenges as irrelevant because they come from people who haven't read the top research like you have. That's more of a dictatorship than a debate.

 

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. I've asked admin very nicely to remove me from the membership so that I'm not upsetting people any more, and they haven't, so alas I'm still here.

 

I don't write the stuff by the top researchers, and can't imagine for one moment why it would be a dictatorship to mention it. It's all online, easily findable, anyone could mention it.

 

No clue. Sorry, but really, no clue at all. I don't mind people challenging the facts, but I do object to trying to help someone and being attacked for it. As I said to the admin team, I've had a hell of a year. I've nearly had my husband die of a brain haemorrhage, I've had my autism support dog die, we've had hellish problems at work, and yes I foul up when I try social communication things sometimes because of the ASC I have. But I'm not a dictator and never have been. Just really exhausted and wanted to get out of people's way before I make any more mistakes.

 

Can my membership please be removed as I've asked?

[Mumble]

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. I've asked admin very nicely to remove me from the membership so that I'm not upsetting people any more, and they haven't, so alas I'm still here.

 

I don't write the stuff by the top researchers, and can't imagine for one moment why it would be a dictatorship to mention it. It's all online, easily findable, anyone could mention it.

 

No clue. Sorry, but really, no clue at all. I don't mind people challenging the facts, but I do object to trying to help someone and being attacked for it. As I said to the admin team, I've had a hell of a year. I've nearly had my husband die of a brain haemorrhage, I've had my autism support dog die, we've had hellish problems at work, and yes I foul up when I try social communication things sometimes because of the ASC I have. But I'm not a dictator and never have been. Just really exhausted and wanted to get out of people's way before I make any more mistakes.

 

Can my membership please be removed as I've asked?

Is it pity you're after?

 

If you have a problem with admin and having your account deleted why don't you just contact them again rather than posting here? And if they (for whatever reason) can't delete your membership then the simple solution is just to log out and not log in again or post. Surely that is obvious?

 

[bid]

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. I've asked admin very nicely to remove me from the membership so that I'm not upsetting people any more, and they haven't, so alas I'm still here.

 

I don't write the stuff by the top researchers, and can't imagine for one moment why it would be a dictatorship to mention it. It's all online, easily findable, anyone could mention it.

 

No clue. Sorry, but really, no clue at all. I don't mind people challenging the facts, but I do object to trying to help someone and being attacked for it. As I said to the admin team, I've had a hell of a year. I've nearly had my husband die of a brain haemorrhage, I've had my autism support dog die, we've had hellish problems at work, and yes I foul up when I try social communication things sometimes because of the ASC I have. But I'm not a dictator and never have been. Just really exhausted and wanted to get out of people's way before I make any more mistakes.

 

Can my membership please be removed as I've asked?

 

Please don't take Zakkala's thread off topic again...just email admin a second time or don't log in if you're not happy here.

 

Bid

 

[Kathryn]

Hi Featherways,

 

Sorry you aren't happy about being on the forum. I assume you contacted one of the admins directly as I don't think any of the mods had a message from you. I'll pm you.

 

Now can we get back to the original topic please?

 

K x