Fed up with school already

[joybed]

Hi all this is more of a rant really. Piers is 5, in mainstream school but repeating reception. He has a diagnosis of ASD and ? ADHD. He is repeating reception because he was so far behind the rest of the class he was not able to cope with moving to year 1 so he is repeating EYFS. We were offered a statement of 12.5 hours which dealt mainly with his social communication problems but hardly mentioned his educational difficulties for this reason we have asked for the statement to be looked at again stating why we didn,t feel it met his needs. We have sought advice from IPSEA.

This week Piers has had a cold and this always affects his behaviour as i am sure we will all appreciate. There is a little boy in his class who is very similar to Piers in temperament and they bounce of one another i am afraid. This little boy has his own problems which his mum has been very open about and between us we are very open and discuss any incedemts that occur. On Monday i picked Piers up and he was very distressed saying he hated school and wasn,t going again, in between sobs it took a long time to get to the real reason (gave various little reasons before getting to the biggy). Apparently this boy had twisted Piers arm hard and then prevented him going to the teacher, according to Piers he was blaimless in the whole incedent. After speaking to this boys Mum Piers had been repeatedly touching this little boys arm who was in a bad mood anyway and after repeatedly asking Piers not to bother him he had snapped. I can see both sides here, Piers wouldn,t realise he was annoying the boy or that he was angry anyway and the boy just wanted to be left alone. Last night piers came home upset saying he had been to the head teachers office who had told him off, according to Piers he had hit somebody because the boy had told him to, when i asked him why he said he was just doing as he was told, I told him he needs to make up his own mind whether that is the right thing to do and he said he doesn,t know how (obviously). Today is a sponsored event at school and Piers said he isn,t allowed to take part because of the incedent yesterday, i questioned this today as the TA had made a big fuss of how good piers was going to be bouncing on the trampoline, she asked the class teacher about it who shouted across the class that due to a number of incedents that week Piers wasn,t doing the event as a punishment. I am upset about this for a number of reasons,

 

1, i don,t like the way the teacher said this in front of all his class he already has low self esteem and is bullied.

 

2, I havn,t been informed by school of any incedents so not giving me a chance to try and nip this in the bud before it got really bad.

 

3, i don,t feel they have taken into consideration the fact that he is ASD and unsupported and he has difficulty reading social situations.

 

I have just spoken to the headteacher and said to him that i agree that Piers should be punished for his bad behaviour but i am not happy with the way the situation has been dealt with, IE not been told about incedents, the teachers tellingme in front of the other children. He apologised for the breakdown in communication and i have again asked for a home school diary. I have been telling them from day 1 that Piers has a tendency to be aggressive but they have always said he is passive and not even taken this into consideration. Apparently yesterday he had been rough with some girls in the role play area interfering with what they were doing (not unusual behaviour for Piers) the head had witnessed this and discussed his behaviour with him and then in the afternoon he had wanted something someone else had and had punched them. I don,t condone this behaviour but he needs to be taught appropriate ways to deal with these situations. I have found with Piers that if you are negative towards a behaviour it occurs all the more you have to be very cunning in dealing with him. Therfore by banning him from something he really wanted to do he will give up and not even bother to try. He is only just starting to take part in school and i am worried this is the slippery slope back to not learning again. The head was apologetic for lack of communication (gave various excuses) and he was positive to what i had to say and listened to my concerns.

 

Sorry for the long rant but feel better now. What i am now worried about is have I overreacted and alienated the school would you have done it any differently. I was polite and expressed my concerns calmly but i did complain about the teachers lack of discretion and he said he would speak to her about this.

[Karen A]

Hi joybed.

That sounds like a very difficult situation.

 

Can you give me some more information regarding where you are at in the Statementing process ?

Have you had a draft Statement and are in the process of documenting the things you are not happy with ?

 

It is certainly worth pushing to get the Statement as tight as you can.

 

Also from the description you give and the fact that Piers has not moved into year 1 it does suggest that 12.5 hours would be nowhere near enough.

It sounds as though Piers may well need support during at least some lesson time.It also sounds as though support is needed during unstructured times.Even on the basis of a very rough calculation 12.5 hours does not appear enough.

The current difficulties are upsetting.However they do provide evidence that Piers is not coping and it sounds as though his behaviour demonstrates this.

Information included in your post also suggests that school are not coping with Piers or the other child and that some input from ASD outreach might be helpful.

ACE produce some excellent information on bullying.Although this issue is not about bullying as such it might be worth using the approach ACE suggest.

 

http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-educ...ng-bullying.htm

On each occasion when an incident occurs put something in writing to document your concerns.Be clear that you believe that the difficulties are occurring due to lack of appropriate support for your son in relation to ASD.Also request that all cases of challenging behaviour are documented in an incident book.

At least then you will have evidence in writing regarding your concerns.

A home school book would be helpful.However if Piers is hitting others or others are hitting him both of these incidents should be documented formally as well as a quick note being put in home-school communication book.

 

 

It might also be worth considering whether it would be worth making a formal complaint to school .This would also enable you to formally document your concerns.

I have found that where school appear willing to help but issues are repeatedly not being addressed a Formal complaint can be an incentive for school to look in more detail at the problems.If you wished you could also write to the LEA.You could document that the situation appears to be becoming of greater concern and that you wish to include the issues detailed as evidence that 12.5 hours would not be adequate.School may not be informing the LEA regarding the difficulties they are having.

http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-educ...a-complaint.htm

This is the ACE information re making a complaint.

Do obtain copies of the SEN policy,the behaviour policy and the complaints procedure and ensure that school are acting in accordance with their own policies.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Karen A

[justine1]

Hi joybed

You are in almost the exact same situation as myself.My son is six and I also feel the school are not doing enough,he to was excluded from an activity because of "bad" behaviour but has not been so since I told the school it was unacceptable.He is also seen as aggressive and a "bully" apparently he hits girls alot becasue they "annoy" him and there is one boy in particular(he used to be his friend) that he just does not get along with EVERYDAY my son hurts/pushes this boy,it is horrible to hear all this,my other son was bullied twice at two separate schools so of course I hate the fact that my son is harming others,but what am I supposed to do???He has not got a statement yet and with the school taking an often laid back approach I often feel we getting nowhere fast,they have only just requested help for him,he has been seen by the ed-physche now all I can do is wait.It is frustruting cause the other mums seem to want my son out of the school and see me as a bad parent,they dont realise the struggle and the fact that he is actually unhappy himself.As for the academic side I do feel that my sons work is not progressing well at all but they keep telling me he is doing "fine" and that he is on target,but when I see his horrible writting and he doesnt even know basic addition I just fear for him,he is in yr 2 now and is going to do SATS soon!I really feel for you!

[joybed]

The LEA didn,t send a proposed statement although they say it was posted but we never received it. We got the final statement on the 5 nov and after reading were not happy. We have had advice from IPSEA and are in the process of negotiating with the LEA. Email sent the other day awaiting reply. According to IPSEA the LEA must treat the final statement as proposed because we didn,t recieve the proposed, hopefully they will or it will go to tribunal. I really do feel for the teacher as she has 2 with ASD, 1 ? ASD, 2 born very prematurally and this little boy with problems in her class of 22, must be hard but then i want what is best for Piers so must fight for him. Will keep you posted.

[JsMum]

The LEA didn,t send a proposed statement although they say it was posted but we never received it. We got the final statement on the 5 nov and after reading were not happy. We have had advice from IPSEA and are in the process of negotiating with the LEA. Email sent the other day awaiting reply. According to IPSEA the LEA must treat the final statement as proposed because we didn,t recieve the proposed, hopefully they will or it will go to tribunal. I really do feel for the teacher as she has 2 with ASD, 1 ? ASD, 2 born very prematurally and this little boy with problems in her class of 22, must be hard but then i want what is best for Piers so must fight for him. Will keep you posted.

 

 

If you have a final statement then that is the statement, to recieve the final statement you have to sign the draft and confirmation letter and then the LEA send out the final.

 

If you have a final statement but you did not sign to say you agreed the draft then something has gone wrong.

 

You need urgent advice if you have the Final Statement and you are NOT happy with what they have agreed.

 

JsMumxxxx

 

[Sally44]

Piers understanding of the situation ie. "I did as I was told", is typical of an ASD child that takes language literally and cannot differentiate social situations and what he should and should not do. This is the area of the SALT. I would speak to her about this specific incident. See what she says. Send in a follow up letter agreeing what was said and agreed to be done. It maybe that SALT input is not enough in the Statement.

[joybed]

Hi thought i would keep you all up to date. Following my email to the LEA they contacted me to say that a meeting needs to be arranged with school, myself and the LEA a date has been fixed for thursday. We have had another rough week with Piers not wanting to go to school, although he seems to have resigned himself to the fact he is going and walks fairly calmly but says he hates it. When I collect him he is very anxious hyperactive and aggressive for the first couple of hours with lots of meltdowns. He tells me some of the things that occur at school. Ihavn,t seen his teacher all week she seems to make herself scarce at home time but the headteacher approached me the other day. He said that he was aware i had turned down Piers statement but that he had contacted the LEA and asked if they could start the 12.5 hours anyway prior to the meeting as it was unlikely they would reduce the hours and he would make up the shortfall when the true hours were decided. I read into this that school are not coping and really need some support. The LSA assigned to him has ASD and EYFS training but she worked with my friends son and they didn,t always seem eye to eye, friends DS now in special school. When i told Piers he was to have help at school he had a meltdown saying he didn,t need help. I also found out over the weekend that the other child with ASD in Piers class has been refused a statement and his mum is OK with this. I now feel like I am being greedy asking for more hours but Piers obviously needs them. Will let you know outcome of meeting.

[smiley1590]

good luck with meeting be thinking of you i often say i don't need anyone's help and support when in actual fact it's the opposite the whole denial thingy it quite common statement made in people with ASD's as we feel like we 'different' odd weird strange etc if we accept and allow others in scared people won't 'understand our world' etc hope all goes well

 

XKLX

[Sally44]

 

Hi Joybed,

 

I've just cut and pasted a reply I made to another post on a similar topic. Ie. a parent who has received the proposed Statement and turned it down and been told by the LEA that all SEN budgets are delegated to the schools and therefore Statements do not secure any further funding.

 

RUBBISH. Below is my reply.

 

 

My LEA said the same. They said they were happy for me to go to tribunal, but that they would win. They said that the SEND panel does not like IPSEA or the NAS and tend to rule in favour of the LEA. They said that when I went to tribunal and lost they would place my son in the nearest mainstream school (which would not have been his former school, and which was not the school we were asking for). They refused transport. They used any information against me that they could. For example they said that I had never told them that I wanted a place at a certain school. That was because the LEA had not told me that this school even existed, or that I had a right to ask for a place there! They told me time and time again that there were other children, much worse than my own, who were not receiving the same level of support input as my son - to make me feel guilty.

 

They refused to assess him prior to be appealing to SEND so that I could not get any written evidence of his needs. So I had to get private reports. (Apparently you can ask for the LEA to pay costs, but it is hard to achieve this)

 

Then after all that, they capitulated at the beginning of the Tribunal, so that we didn't even need to go through the process! And they agreed to everything I was asking for. It really is like a game of poker with the LEA trying to keep their face and not let parents know or have access to the rights their children have. It is obviously to do with money. And it obviously costs them alot to meet the requirements of Statements that do specify. BUT if these LEAs actually had decent schools suitable for our children with the right professionals in them, it would actually save them money. Instead they prefer to try to keep most children without statements or with weak statements so that they can afford to meet the Statements and Placements in private or independent schools of the few parents who fight all the way to get what their child needs.

 

If you are in any doubt about what you are being told check it out on this forum, or speak with IPSEA or the NAS Educational Helpline. Don't believe a word the LEA tells you without checking it.

 

Even now I have been to tribunal, have a good Statement. Now further difficulties have come to light and again the school are refusing to get an EP in to see him. So I have had to again gather my own evidence so that I can ask for these additional needs to be itemised in section 2, and for it to be specified in terms of hours of support and staffing input in section 3. I am 100% sure they will refuse to make any amendments at his Annual Review to include these changes. Therefore I will be forced to ask the LEA for a re-assessment. Which again I am sure they will refuse, which will mean I will have to appeal to SEND and go to tribunal again.

 

It is quite a bizarre system, because - for example - the LEA is telling me that the Specific Learning Difficulties teacher does not go into schools to see or assess children with dyslexia etc. So to just forget it and stop asking. His statement says that an EP should assess and monitor the approaches and strategies school are using. School say they don't need to do this because they know what they are doing. If I go to tribunal I am 99.9% sure I will win because the SEN CoP says that every need has to have recommendations on how it will be met. If a child needs a SPLD teacher, then that is what they get. A teacher is a teacher. They are not an SPLD teacher/EP/OT/SALT etc all rolled into one. Suitably qualified professionals have to work within their specialist area.

 

Anyway, i'm rambling now ..... But don't let them make you feel guilty. It is a horrible system. It puts you in confrontation with the school. Just try to keep on good terms with school and just work methodically through the process and always ensure you know the relevant part of the CoP and get advice from IPSEA and the NAS.

[Karen A]

I now feel like I am being greedy asking for more hours but Piers obviously needs them. Will let you know outcome of meeting.

 

Hi.There is no need to feel that you are being greedy.

You are fighting for what you believe your child needs.For whatever reason the other parent has decided not to.That does not make you wrong. <'> Karen.

 

[joybed]

Had the meating with the LEA she was very fair and listened to my concerns agreed they hadn,t dealt with his concentration and focus difficulties. the school said they were happy with the 12.5 hours and were thrilled to get that as a lot of children had been refused statments. I calmly but across my point and the LEA agreed to put in an extra 2.5 hours as well as staing he has SALT, an assessment by an OT and extra help at playtime/ lunchtime an addition to his hours. So 15 hours all together. I am pleased with this and now feel it meets Piers needs. The SENCO came to me yesterday and congratulated me saying he couldn,t believe what i had achieved. I was floating on air, early christmas present. His 12.5 hours started last week and his teacher said he has done more in a week than he has all term. Lets hope it continues. Thankyou for all so much your help and advice.

I have Marcus review next week so will probably be posting again.

[Sally44]

That is good news.

Now you have a baseline to work on. Ensure that school fulfill the Statement. Then, in future, if the support he gets, or the professional input he gets is not enough that is when you ask for further support in terms of hours or staffing input is increased in the Statement. But that is for further down the road. Now it's time to open a bottle of something.