aggressive behaviour at school

[justine1]

Today I have reached boiling point and really dont know where to turn.Everday since the start of school year,Sept,my son has hurt someone at school,I get so annoyed over it because I never know what to do other than to explain,or get him to explain what he has done.This week I gave the teacher a diary where she can write what is going on,got the idea from here so thanks for that!Yesterday his teacher explained that he had pushed a boy,and this boy's name comes up nearly everyday,so I really feel bad that this is happening.The mum of the boy spoke to me this morning,which is the second time in two months,about Sams behaviour towards my son asking "what am I going to do about it" she treated me as though I am a bad mum and suggested I should remove his toys as punnishment,she also made an annoying statement "dont know why he does it your children seem happy"what????Anyway after school the teachercalled me and another girls mum over and told her mum that Sam had pulled her hair she then turned to Sam and said "say sorry to ? and you see her mum here she is not happy" the mum then went on to explain that Sam had kicked her yesterday in the leg and "beatings" happen constantly.The mum left and I exploded shouting at the teacher saying how could she make my son feel intimidated in that way,am I wrong?I also went on to say that he is not even happy at school,and I am trying to get him the help he needs,I told her about the other mum and she was saying "I can see you upset come inside" I refused because it seems the only way they will listen is if I shout and get angry.

[sesley]

tough one, my P has anger issues at school too he clumps teachers and has had a go at other kiddies, and we are working on it. Its do with frustration and anxietys within school,and coping with concepts that are hard,like taking taking turns,queuing and having to be part of teams and more turn taking. Maybe its time to talk to the head teacher and what about your support teacher? what are they doing ? What are the triggers that set your son off? Is he getting anxious before he lashes out? what is he getting anxious about? Get the school to help you explain to the other parents about your persons autism and challenges.

[OAASIS]

Today I have reached boiling point and really dont know where to turn.Everday since the start of school year,Sept,my son has hurt someone at school,I get so annoyed over it because I never know what to do other than to explain,or get him to explain what he has done.This week I gave the teacher a diary where she can write what is going on,got the idea from here so thanks for that!Yesterday his teacher explained that he had pushed a boy,and this boy's name comes up nearly everyday,so I really feel bad that this is happening.The mum of the boy spoke to me this morning,which is the second time in two months,about Sams behaviour towards my son asking "what am I going to do about it" she treated me as though I am a bad mum and suggested I should remove his toys as punnishment,she also made an annoying statement "dont know why he does it your children seem happy"what????Anyway after school the teachercalled me and another girls mum over and told her mum that Sam had pulled her hair she then turned to Sam and said "say sorry to ? and you see her mum here she is not happy" the mum then went on to explain that Sam had kicked her yesterday in the leg and "beatings" happen constantly.The mum left and I exploded shouting at the teacher saying how could she make my son feel intimidated in that way,am I wrong?I also went on to say that he is not even happy at school,and I am trying to get him the help he needs,I told her about the other mum and she was saying "I can see you upset come inside" I refused because it seems the only way they will listen is if I shout and get angry.

 

Hello,

 

Many children with ASD's lash out because they have misunderstood a situation and they have not yet learned any other strategy to use. Many schools now have Emotional Literacy groups where small groups of children (about 4 - 6) get together with a TA and learn about social skills, friendships skills and such like (whatever that particular gropup of childrebn are struggling with). Perhaps your son's school has these sessions, in which case it may be worth trying to get him involved in one. Your son may work for a reward system where he can earn a reward for not showing aggression but he will need to be given other things he can do, such as walk away, have time-out, tell a member of staff. Recording different strategies in a book can be useful as well, but initially the book would need to be readily available for him. For example, in the middle of a clean page in an exercise book write 'Instead of hitting someone I could .... ' Then draw 3 lines coming away from it with different strategies at the end of them. New startegies for different problems can be written on each page. Initially he may need help on finding other strategies, but in time he should be able to think of them for himself. The school could help with the reward system by writing in the home/school diary if he has used his strategies or not been aggressive. Rewards do not need to be expensive - a trip to the park, extra time on the computer, a comic or a friend round for tea. It would help your son if he sees that home and school are working together. In my experience, people tend to listen if you are not shouting and can speak calmly and rationally and by perhaps showing them that you are prepared to work with them. If you need to talk to someone we have a free phone helpline from 10am - 4.30pm weekdays and an answerphone servie at all other times. If you leave your name and number we will call you back. The number is: 0800 902 0732

 

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes,

OAASIS www.oaasis.co.uk

[justine1]

tough one, my P has anger issues at school too he clumps teachers and has had a go at other kiddies, and we are working on it. Its do with frustration and anxietys within school,and coping with concepts that are hard,like taking taking turns,queuing and having to be part of teams and more turn taking. Maybe its time to talk to the head teacher and what about your support teacher? what are they doing ? What are the triggers that set your son off? Is he getting anxious before he lashes out? what is he getting anxious about? Get the school to help you explain to the other parents about your persons autism and challenges.

Hi thanks for reply,you are right in that there are always reasons as to why he has hurt other kids,not that I am excusing it,but at home I am able to remove him from the situation if he gets upset,at school they dont seem to be doing much and ofetn say it was done for "no reason"but he always tells me what has annoyed him he never tells the teacher these things so he looks bad.I have had three meetings with the headteacher who is also SENco,they reassure me encourage me to bring him in cause he often does not want to go to school,but I can honestly say from where I am sitting does not look like they doing much.He goes for another assesment at a centre soon,but again there is no communication between the school and the assesment place,the Paeditricians have requested info from the school three times and when the report had been delayed the school moaned at me to call them which I did a week later the report came in the post,so its not them its the school who is at fault.I dont really get angry prefer just to listen and then walk away,but today I just coud not help it,I mean what exactly do they expect me to do?I have explained to some of the mums but they all seem so ignorant thinking my son is now the school bully and because I was in a refuge last yr people are judging me think I am useless mum.

[justine1]

Hello,

 

Many children with ASD's lash out because they have misunderstood a situation and they have not yet learned any other strategy to use. Many schools now have Emotional Literacy groups where small groups of children (about 4 - 6) get together with a TA and learn about social skills, friendships skills and such like (whatever that particular gropup of childrebn are struggling with). Perhaps your son's school has these sessions, in which case it may be worth trying to get him involved in one. Your son may work for a reward system where he can earn a reward for not showing aggression but he will need to be given other things he can do, such as walk away, have time-out, tell a member of staff. Recording different strategies in a book can be useful as well, but initially the book would need to be readily available for him. For example, in the middle of a clean page in an exercise book write 'Instead of hitting someone I could .... ' Then draw 3 lines coming away from it with different strategies at the end of them. New startegies for different problems can be written on each page. Initially he may need help on finding other strategies, but in time he should be able to think of them for himself. The school could help with the reward system by writing in the home/school diary if he has used his strategies or not been aggressive. Rewards do not need to be expensive - a trip to the park, extra time on the computer, a comic or a friend round for tea. It would help your son if he sees that home and school are working together. In my experience, people tend to listen if you are not shouting and can speak calmly and rationally and by perhaps showing them that you are prepared to work with them. If you need to talk to someone we have a free phone helpline from 10am - 4.30pm weekdays and an answerphone servie at all other times. If you leave your name and number we will call you back. The number is: 0800 902 0732

 

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes,

OAASIS www.oaasis.co.uk

Sorry this is not helpful,tried rational calm talking does not work!!!!I give all my time going to see and speak to the school but there is only so much I can do he is not in my care when he is at school.They have a reward system in place and it works probably one day out of five.I also have recetly started social stories with my son.His school doesnt have social lessons with TA and dont think they will be able to as it seems they are streached when it comes to staff.Thanks anyway.

 

[puffin]

Thi is a tough but not uncommon problem as our kids often have difficulty expressing themselves and cannot really explain what the problem is nor talk about their feelings.

 

I think that you need to talk the the school about what simple measure they could put in place to prevent these conflicts with the other kids. It will be a huge help to your child if he can learn some strategies to help him to identify for himsself when he is feeling angry and at risk of lashing out.

 

The social stories that you are doing are a good idea - but it seems as though he also needs something that can be used in the heat of the moment - a special place or procedure he could use to alert the staff to the fact that he is feeling angry - even when he cannot formulate it in words.

- for example a red card or a card with and angry or sad face.

 

Would the staff agree than he could go to a special place if he is feeling angry or stressed to allow him to de-stress and get away from the situation - for example the cloakroom, the library or playground?

 

I think that you also need to ask the staff to be observant - to try and identify the triggers or signs of stress in your son - and then attempt to diffuse the situation or steer him away

[Sally44]

Am I right in thinking that you don't have a diagnosis at the moment?

Have school called in the Educational Psychologist to see your son in school and discuss their concerns about his behaviours towards other children - you can also see the EP to discuss these issues.

If it is expected that a diagnosis of an ASD is going to happen, then school can also ask in the Autism Advisory Teacher to observe your son in school and come up with suggestions.

 

Are you intending to keep your son at this school?

You may find that as he becomes older his difficulties become more pronounced. When a child does not have some basic skills they find it hard to make progress in certain areas because they have no foundations to build on. So bear that in mind as the school placement may become inappropriate.

 

It is also worth knowing that only letters written to school that you 'request' are put on your child's file will be put there. Also any letters you write to the Head of SEN at your LEA will be put on your child's file. It might seem unimportant now, but in a few years time, if you say that you have had continual difficulties with your son's behaviour in school, you may find there is no written evidence of that unless you have requested it is on file. Again just worth bearing in mind.

 

You could write a letter into school saying that you are concerned at the number of times each week your son appears to be physically hurting other children. Say that he is being assessed for an ASD and that these behaviours are typically due to difficulties associated with this dx. Ask school if they have contacted the EP/AAT for them to come and observe your son and give advice to school specifically around these behavioural issues. Say that your son's difficulties are not just being naughty and that it is not at all helpful for school staff to put you or your son in a confrontational situation with other mothers whose children have been hurt by your son. Say that your son needs professional help with these social skills and that you want this letter put on his school file.

 

I would also advise that you contact the NAS and IPSEA to get their advice as well.

[baddad]

Hi -

I totally agree that it makes the situation much, much worse when you get other parents 'judgements' or even those of staff thrown in your face etc., but I think you have to balance that by considering how you would feel if the 'victim' was your child and the situation reversed. Certainly, even in SEN schools it's very clear that parents tend to have a very one-sided view about how staff should respond to their own child's aggressive behaviour but completely different (and very judgemental) views about other children displaying very similar behaviours...

However upsetting situations might be for you, angry/aggressive responses on your own part are only going to exaccerbate the problems and reinforce the negative judgements people might be making about your son and the possible reasons for his behaviour. Don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting it's your 'fault', or that not feeling angry/upset is easy, or trying to suggest (God forbid) that I haven't been 'guilty as charged' myself from time to time... But the simple fact is, every time I have 'lost it' I've later regretted it, and it has made the situation worse rather than better.

I do agree in part with what OAASIS has said that 'many children with ASD lash out in frustration because they haven't learnt other coping strategies', but I also think it's incredibly damaging for children to make the assumption that behaviours only arise for those reasons, or to relax boundaries and sanctions on the basis of such assumptions. Even when it is clear that behaviours have arisen because of such frustration/misunderstanding it is still important to follow through on the sanction and to redefine the boundary, because the underlying 'lesson' is that aggression is an inappropriate respons to frustration in any circumstances.

Generally speaking I'm of the opinion that 'stuff' happening in school should be dealt with in school and that stuff happening at home should remain in the home, but the one exception I have always made to this is for aggressive behaviours. In real terms I feel there is very little schools can do these days to combat aggression, and strategies they can use (exclusion, detention, isolation) are almost always regarded unfavourably, and often opposed quite vehemently, by parents(and it's true that such sanctions do have their flaws, but at some point you have to apply the rule of 'lesser of two evils'). It makes it worse that many of those sanctions can actually be perceived as 'rewards' by a child who lacks the wider understanding to appreciate that (i.e.) an exclusion is not a 'days holiday'...

I've posted several times about the 'three tier' reward scheme I used with my own son: one easy 'given' target for which he would be rewarded every day, an almost as easy secondary target that he would achieve 70-80% of the time and the actual target, which was not to hurt anyone today. He saved reward tokens for treats (usually converting them into money to buy computer games he wanted). In effect, the 'not to hurt anyone today' (on weekdays at least) was directly related to behaviour in school, but was never presented as such. Very aggressive and targeted behaviour (i.e. calculated aggression towards a specific child rather than just spur of the moment 'tantrums') meant a sanction as well as a lost reward, and the sanction was always something that felt like a sanction - i.e. lost computer console time: the biggest 'gun' in most parent's armoury these days!

 

Oh - an example of how easy it is to get a sanction/reward wrong (I've posted it before but not for some time):

After a successful couple of weeks running the 'reward token scheme' I thought it would be a good example/model for him to see me with a reward scheme, so we designed a star chart for me along similar lines to his, the actual target being for me not to lose my temper and shout. Everything went to pot, with his behaviour deteriorating rapidly over the next week or so. Eventually he explained his logic to me: On the days he got into trouble and lost a star he resented me earning a star, so would deliberately act up to make me lose my temper and shout so that neither of us would earn a star that day... You can't fault the logic, can you?

 

Hope that's helpful

 

L&P

 

BD

[justine1]

Hi thank you all so much for your reply's,since this post my sons behaviour got worse and he was excluded for two days(I have a post on this situation,meant to read May attend school half day but made error says Mat instead of May!)My son seriously hurt his brother last night as well which he doesnt normally do,his younger brother had smacked him first but he decided to beat him over the head with a toy.He really didnt seem to understand how serious the situation was even when his brother went to A&E.

To Puffin:You are right I do find my son has difficulty expressing himself and at school it is worse becasue he is reluctant even AFRAID to tell the teachers when he has a problem.The school have given him an area to calm down but its right near the classroom and is not quiet enough.At the moment they still get my eldest to calm him down.

To Sally44:No he hasnt a diagnosis has had one assesment chasing up for second appt now.Just got off the phone with special needs helper who goes to the school on Mondays she wants to get a Autism Advisory teacher in but said she cant do anything until he has a dignosis so have called the paed centre they will get back to me,school said they will also contact them if there is still a delay.I am not sure if I will keep him at this school yet,the school is lovely but I may need to move as I am starting Uni in Sept 2010 and I dont drive,there is an autism specific school where we will move to so may try get him there,after he has his statement.But I love my house and other kids in fact even Sam are happy here.

To baddad:I do know how the other parents feel,my eldest son has been bullied many times in the past (not at this school)and even racially assulted.Sam himself has been bullied and hurt many times(at this school) so I totally get why they angry.But I would never tell someone how to raise their own child,even if it was seen as advice,unless they ask for advice who am I to give it?Also I think her frusration/anger should be directed at the school.Yes there is little the school can do but they must be able to do something at the moment they do nothing,just tell him its wrong without explaining why.I did reward system at home before but I think he was to little to understand he just ripped everything.I really like the token idea it really is great.The problem I have is he doesnt have anything valuable,in the way of console,and as I am a single parent I cant restict the tv watching cause I rely on that when I bath,cook etc. tried other things to keep him occupied this doesnt work,however,I have started saying if he doesnt harm anyone he can have a Ben 10 magazine(which he loves) I dont buy it normally cause its expensive,but I think by having the tokens its more visual and he is able to keep track of his progree,rather than me just saying you cant have a treat cause he did wrong,so thanks for that sounds perfect.

 

I know it may seem that I am leaving it up to the school but I am most definatley not,I have four boys,he is the only one who is aggressive,though they all argue and fight which is normal,so again I know its not my parenting.I have really started talking more about his behaviour and after repeating many times I think he is getting there,but I will continue repeating it all.He had a good day last Mon before being excluded and last fri after exclusion,and the head said he has been great today,so there is no doubt he can do it.Thank you all so very much.

[baddad]

Very quick reply - no I wasn't defending the other parent's behaviour, I was just highlighting their frustration and the fact that the onus is always going to be on us in these situations to model more appropriate responses.

Ben 10 seems a really good starting point, and if you can't find or make tokens (ELC sell plastic 'coins', but i don't know if you can buy a pack of (i.e.) all 10's or 50's?) then marbles in a jar work well too - anything big and visual, basically. I can totally (as a single dad) appreciate how difficult the 'telly' thing is, but if this matters to him then isolating him from being able to watch will be very effective. I don't underestimate how hard that would be and the extra difficulties/time constraints while you have to enforce that isolation, but it really is a question of wrestle now/relax later, because it's only going to get harder as he gets bigger and the aggression is already on the increase.

 

L&P

 

BD