11 Plus.

[chris54]

Just got a letter from school about the 11 Plus test that are held in September. An application form need to be filled in if I want my son to take part.

 

Basically the "cleverest" 25% of children go to the boys (or girls) grammar school the rest go to the local secondary school, here called an academy, which has a satellite school in our village.

 

My quandary is.

Not enter him in the test, knowing that he has little chance of attaining a high enough score to go to grammar school.

Enter him in the test, with all the pressure that will bring, with the hope that maybe he mite have a good day and do well.

Would the grammar school be the best choice of school for him anyway. Don't know much about it but have been told by the person from Autism outreach, that the secondary school are good with SENs.

 

I am trying to make a decision without my principales getting in the way. (I am against selective education)

[justine1]

Have you not had the chance to see the schools,like at opendays?If not you can make appt to see them giving you and him better idea of whats available.If you explain beforehand that he has to work hard for grammer school,then if he likes it you can discuss the exam furthur and see from there?

 

I also dont agree that kids this age should do exams,but I guess if you want him to go to the grammer school it may be worth it in the end.May be worth a shot.But you know him best,like how he will react if he doesnt get in,it maybe hard on his self confidence.

[baddad]

Hi Chris -

 

I'm not sure if putting him in for it means lots of extra pressure - unless they 'stream' the kids or hot-house them during the run up(?)

If you are considering mainstream secondary and think he's in with a shout for the grammer I'd go for it...

The actual experience of being at grammer could go either way - kids that go there tend to be a bit more academic and (erm, sorry, but it's probably as good a word as any) 'geeky' anyway, so HFA/AS kids may well find themselves in a far more sympathetic environment than the mainstream comp. or whatever. The downside is that the expectations on them might be higher, and that in terms of self esteem they might find themselves going from 'top 25%' in primary to 'lowest 10%' in a school full of high achievers. That's still actually 'above average' but because the environment is an artificial one it doesn't feel that way, iyswim.

 

It may be different in different areas, but if he has a statement i'm quite surprised that you're in this position now, as in my region parents of statemented kids make their secondary choices a year earlier than other parents (?). That way they get a year to look around all the schools/options so they can make a more informed choice. Have you visited the schools yet? I'd probably (unless you're sure there will be extra pressure) bung his name down anyway then get around the schools asap for a looksee and take it from there.

 

Hope that's helpful

 

L&P

 

BD

[Tally]

It's my understanding that the schools do not offer support with the 11+ in any way. If that is the case in your area, then the only pressure on children taking the 11+ would come from home (or not, if you choose not to exert any). It could be a good experience for your son to go through the process of taking an exam. If he does pass, you will not be compelled to send him to the grammar school if you would prefer a different one.

[baranigirl]

It's my understanding that the schools do not offer support with the 11+ in any way. If that is the case in your area, then the only pressure on children taking the 11+ would come from home (or not, if you choose not to exert any). It could be a good experience for your son to go through the process of taking an exam. If he does pass, you will not be compelled to send him to the grammar school if you would prefer a different one.

 

absolutely right, we have 11+ here DD1 took and 'missed' out by 5 points, just a tad too far to appeal, I had to appeal for the secondary school of her / my choice as it was due to different reasons (out of area but she had lots of problems too), she is in the grammar stream there and predicted A-C in all her GCSE's this summer, am pleased she didn't go to the grammar school as it changed about 2 yrs into her secondary ed meaning it was very pushy and would not suit her at all

 

DD2 didn't want to sit it last September, again another borderline child, so she selected a secondary school suitable for herself (again out of area) and was selected for a place based on her sports abilities

 

Talk to the head and follow their advice as they are best placed to know whether it is worth your child doing the test or not

[chris54]

The pressure come from the school wanting their children to do best with lots of practising of tests.

 

Without support (Additional time to proses information and a Scribe) he would be unlikely to achieve anything meaningful in the tests.

 

With out substantial travel there is only the grammar school and secondary school in our area.

 

Schools open days are in July.

 

I'm going to seek the advise for his HT.

There are special arrangement for statemented/SEN children transition to secondary school but they run to normal timetable.

 

Off to work now, so kept this short.

[puffin]

It's my understanding that the schools do not offer support with the 11+ in any way. If that is the case in your area, then the only pressure on children taking the 11+ would come from home (or not, if you choose not to exert any). It could be a good experience for your son to go through the process of taking an exam. If he does pass, you will not be compelled to send him to the grammar school if you would prefer a different one.

 

The way the 11+ game is played in many areas is that parents pay for years of private tuition and training workshops during the holidays - In many respects it is not about about who is the brighest anymore but more about who could afford the best tutor had been the best trained to pass the test.

 

I remember my SIL having a long dilemma about her DD - she was horrified about the lengths some parents were prepared to go to in her area (lying and cheating to gain an advantage) - the 'pass' mark to get to grammar school was 99%.

 

If you think that it would be a positive experience for your child and you really like the school then go for it - but be aware that some kids are being coached for the test for 3-4 years before they take it

[baranigirl]

thats why my dd didn't pass as she never had 'coaching' for it

[justine1]

I understand that people do get outside help to coach their kids,but I think if you have a child who is already doing well you should,as a parent IMO,be challenging that child anyway 11+ or not.

 

My NT son has had to come home everyday and do extra worksheets and reading I have set out for him,he has a brain and needs to use it!!!However he can cope with this and likes the pressure.I would never suggest other people do the same if their kids are not this way.I do set out "homework"/worksheets for all of my children,but thats just how I am.I get to know from when they are about three what their abilities are and when they start school I can see how far they can go,so I set the work accordingly.My youngest is nearly two and when the other three do their work(and when I do my course work)he will sit at the table with us and do some colouring and try and draw some pictures,so he is getting to know how to hold a pencil etc.

He also tries to read from copying his brothers.

 

I never went to school in this country and we wouldnt sit exams until we started high school at age 13,then we would sit annual exams just before the end of each school year right through until our final year at school.Our report would then show the results of these examinations.We would also have numerous tests,esp maths,throughout each school year.At 13 I think most kids could cope and we were taught other skills,on how delegate our time and make notes etc,so we did most of the work alone.I think at 10/11 children cant do this so they are forced to take on all this work,its to much kids should be kids.I also think even the smartest kids with all the coaching may even still fail or not accepted into the school they want, can you imagine how that will feel!!!!

[Sally44]

I would speak with the current Head and/or class teacher first.

If they think he has a chance of passing, then move to the level.

Ie. you have mentioned he has difficulties that require him to have extra time for exams etc. Do you have any letter giving him that extra time? If not get it, because without it, even if he is capable he will probably fail anyway.

You also need to weigh up the information you have from his current teacher and what you know about your child as to whether he could cope with sitting the actual exam. Talk with your child about it too.

If there is the possibility of him passing, and being able to cope with the exam then the next level is to visit the grammer school and the secondary school. If you feel the secondary school is the best option then there is no point even considering the 11+ exam. If you think the grammer school could meet his needs, then it might be worth having a go.

 

Also check that both schools have the same status regarding any professionals going into school and that the grammar school does have access to professionals. Might also be worth asking them both what their EP/SALT budget is per term. And what allocated funding they have for each school for SEN pupils. Sometimes grammar schools can be a better environment for children on the spectrum. But each school is different so you really need to visit.

 

[chris54]

My NT son has had to come home everyday and do extra worksheets and reading I have set out for him,

Cant imagine my son doing to much of that, it is a challenge enough just to get him to do the homework the school set. But he does spend a lot of time with his nose in books, and writing all sorts of notes, most unreadable by us but they mean something to him.

 

I am trying not to let my own experiences of the 11+ get in my way.

I can remember sitting where looking at this paper knowing it was important to do well and not being able to read a word on it.

Two of my sisters who passed their 11+ where not accepted by the grammar school because it was felt the family would not be able to support them in their education.( You have to remember that in them days passing the 11+ meant that the LEA would fund you to go to grammar school which were independent school that also took fee paying pupils.)

 

My fist step is to seek the opinion of his HT who's views I very much respect and then take it from there.

 

Our view was always that he would go to the local secondary school which is a very small school and only 10 minuets walk away but this has recently been amalgamated into a much larger school and is now a saterlight to the main school. There is the chance that he would go to the main site which is about 5 miles away. No one can say at the moment.

So this changed the dynamics of any decision we now take as to secondary school options.

 

Thats it for now, got to cook tea.

[chris54]

It has now been confirmed that no allowances or support are allowed in the 11+ tests, without it there is really little point in my son doing the test anyway, so that is that.

Edited May 11, 2010 by chris54

[justine1]

It has now been confirmed that no allowances or support are allowed in the 11+ tests, without it there is really little point in my son doing the test anyway, so that is that.

Thats a real shame Chris,hopefully he will be able to go to the local school not the larger school furthur away.

[Kathryn]

It has now been confirmed that no allowances or support are allowed in the 11+ tests, without it there is really little point in my son doing the test anyway, so that is that.

 

?!

 

That's disability discrimination, surely?

 

K x

 

[Sally44]

I was thinking the same thing.

Not sure who the best person to ask is though.

Our LEA have someone specific you can talk to about any Disability Discrimination issues. If they don't know they tell you who you need to speak to.

However that throws you back into your decision turmoil.

[chris54]

The test are run by the grammar schools themselves and the LA are happy to go along with this so other than challenging it in court I dont know what else you can do about it.

After all the whole selective education system in its self is discriminatory, that you select the "Cleverest" and give them more resources at the cost of everyone else.

 

All said and done, I think I will leave that battle for someone else to fight.

 

Now to see what the real options are. His HT has given me some contact names to get on to so that is my next step.

[Kathryn]

Hi Chris,

 

From the tone of your post you sound as though you don't really want to pursue it - and I wouldn't blame you but just thought I'd mention that SENDIST will hear a DDA claim regarding admission arrangements to maintained schools, including the lack of adjustments for tests for selective schools.

 

K x

 

 

[Yossarian]

Perhaps someone could chip in here, but I think different rules apply to Academy schools regarding admission of children with SEN. I think they have more freedom about who they want to take?

[Kathryn]

I think the DD issue is with the grammar school, not the Academy.

 

Re. Academies and SEN, the situation is complex. Academies are a pain - they are independent schools in some respects but not in others. They are not bound by education law although they are required to have regard to the SEN Code of Practice and the Admissions Code, this is a condition of their funding agreement with the DCSF.

 

A parent can bring a DDA claim against an Academy to SEND just as they would for an independent school.

 

Neither the LA or SEND have the power to direct an Academy to admit a child, only the Secretary of State has this power. As far as asking for a school to be named in the Statement, the Academy has the status of an independent school, i.e. the parent has no right to it and must make representations.

 

Because they aren't fee paying schools, I think some parents don't realise the power Academies have by virtue of their independent status. There's a lot of guidance they don't have to follow and that's not always the best thing for pupils with SEN.

 

K x

[chris54]

I would just say that in our situation the secondary school, the Academy, it is the only local option other than grammar school.

It does not have a restrictive entry criteria. It is set in 32 acres of grounds and has 1600 students on its roll, our local village school, which is a satellite to it has about 400 on its roll, the other satellite school (in a different village) is likely to close soon. They say there is no plans to close our school but plans can change. As far as I can ascertain there are no guarantees which site a child would attend if enrolled at the Academy, and may even move between the two sites (about 4 miles apart) for some lessons withing the school day.

[justine1]

I would just say that in our situation the secondary school, the Academy, it is the only local option other than grammar school.

It does not have a restrictive entry criteria. It is set in 32 acres of grounds and has 1600 students on its roll, our local village school, which is a satellite to it has about 400 on its roll, the other satellite school (in a different village) is likely to close soon. They say there is no plans to close our school but plans can change. As far as I can ascertain there are no guarantees which site a child would attend if enrolled at the Academy, and may even move between the two sites (about 4 miles apart) for some lessons withing the school day.

If this is the case can you maybe look slightly furthur afield,given that he may now have to go furthur from home.

[chris54]

If this is the case can you maybe look slightly furthur afield,given that he may now have to go furthur from home.

That is just what we are doing at the present time.

We are waiting to hear back about a meeting with the Academy's SEN Manager to discuss possible ways forward, as the Principal put it.

Got a meeting with our Parent Support Adviser next week when we will discuss this.

And will be contacting the Autism Outreach Consultant and the the SEN team on the council.

[chris54]

My son was just talking about the 11+, about what they have been saying at school about it.

 

I asked him "Do you want to do the 11+ ?" , "No, if you pass you go to a horrible school where they stick your head down the toilet" I think hes thinking of Tom Browns School Days. (This was all said in a light hearted way)

[justine1]

My son was just talking about the 11+, about what they have been saying at school about it.

 

I asked him "Do you want to do the 11+ ?" , "No, if you pass you go to a horrible school where they stick your head down the toilet" I think hes thinking of Tom Browns School Days. (This was all said in a light hearted way)

My eldest is starting middle school in Sept it is in a famous building very old from 1800's,everyone has told them there are ghosts so he is petrified of going.

It seems like you have had a productive talk with the HT,I do hope you find the right school for your son,it's so stressful.