Lying LEA

[Ria]

Hello all,

Have just had a letter from LEA. to say that the emergency meeting that was being arranged by them is not going to happen.

My ds attends an out of county school monday to Friday and is sitting his GCSE's now. He has no learning difficulties, social interaction is his main hurdle.Before going to this school, he was out of education for 2 and a half years, he refused to go, and when he did go to mainstream schools and an EBD school it was a disaster. He has done so well at where he is now.There is provision for 16 plus but of course there is the little problem of funding, which we didn't know we had to apply for until this year.My ds had said that he didn't want to go to college away from home which the LEA picked up on but unknown to them he has ,since looking at 2 local collages and becoming anxious, changed his mind and is refusing to go anywhere where he won't know another boy from school. There is another boy from his school going on the same course my ds wants to do in the out of county collage. My son has had problems in the community and is more of a problem with outbursts at home than is is at school and we as his parents feel that he would benefit from staying out of county for the support they can give him,which we can't. The LEA. said that they agreed that we needed an emergency meeting with them and when I have called up to ask when it was going to be they have said that it was being arranged and we would get a letter. Well, get a letter we did today saying that because my ds has no learning difficulties and wants to go to college locally, there is no point to a meeting. As if it is just about learning ability for people on the Spectrum to go through day to day living! It was a blatant lie to tell us that there was going to be a meeting! Any coincidence the letter arrived on a Saturday when their office is closed?! We were expecting a fight for funding but to be told that there isn't even going to be a meeting has made me so angry! Parent Partnership have been fantastic over the years, I guess I'll be doing a lot of phoning around on Monday. Thankyou for letting me vent my frustration here.

[call me jaded]

A vote of sympathy from me, after we had a week of nail biting to hear whether the SEN panel would 'accept' that DS's post 16 placement would continue. Never mind that they were totally disregarding the SEN Code of Practice which says that decisions on placements should be made by 15 Feb at the latest to allow scope for appeal and the minor fact that college application deadlines had been and gone. It was the complete and utter casualness of it all that's had me steaming and ready to take them to judicial review at any hint of nonsense.

 

Has Connexions been involved? Our Connexions worker has been hopeless. You can some good information from the Transition Information Network although they're not a helpline as such.

Edited June 12, 2010 by call me jaded

[Kazzen161]

I presume he has a Statement, in which case he should have been having transition reviews (as part of the annual review) since Yr 9. 16+ options should have been discussed at each review. Connexions should have been coming to these reviews and talking to your son (and school and you) about what he wanted to do 16+.

 

I cannot understand why the school did not keep you informed about the 16+ process.

[call me jaded]

Our school kept us fully informed of the process, my LA just didn't follow the guidelines AT ALL. Now that the placement hs been agreed I'm going to let the Aiming High manager (who has responsibility) have a detailed account of exactly what they're doing that's unlawful.

 

Ria hopefully will get her PPS on the case.

[Ria]

Thankyou everyone for your replies. We all have to battle to get any results don't we. Monday morning 9.15 am. local connections officer turned up on the doorstep out of the blue. He did give some ideas of who to contact, as did pps. Had a meeting today with ds's headmaster. My head is swimming with all the things and people to persue, not one person has been available on the phone, they are all "In a meeting" or "Not in the office"! Have you come across that before anyone? lol.

Will post again, and look at your suggestions. Thank's

[Ria]

Hello again everyone,

Does anyone know on what grounds we can Appeal? PPS don't know if we can go ahead with Appeal because 16+ is a "gray area". Education say ds's needs can be met in local college, ds refusing to go to local college since visiting them (anxiety kicked in). We feel ds needs the additional support he would get staying residential out of county re: socialising in community, everyday living tasks. If he comes back here 24/7 he will be back in his bedroom never going anywhere, headmaster said so too. Social Services say it is an educational matter and won't become involved. Any one any ideas where we go from here? PPS say it may be Disability Discrimination? Thanks.

[trekster]

Could you speak with the college and ask what type of support they can provide? ive also been to a college in another county and i got in class support with a 1:1 support worker. Does your son need something different to this?

[Kathryn]

A statement only remains in force as long as a pupil is at school. If the LA decide that his needs could be met in the further education sector they must write to you to say they are going to cease to maintain the statement. You then have the right of appeal to SEND against that decision, if you want him to continue at his school.

 

K x

[Ria]

Could you speak with the college and ask what type of support they can provide? ive also been to a college in another county and i got in class support with a 1:1 support worker. Does your son need something different to this?

Hi Trekster, Thankyou for replying to me.

From what I saw from the colleges, the support for his education seems alright within the college. When he has refused to go to school, the care staff have come to the house and persuaded him to return. The post 16+ residential home would

help him with cooking, clothes washing, paying bills and things like that. If I try to help him, he gets angry with me. Were you happy with the support you got?

[Ria]

A statement only remains in force as long as a pupil is at school. If the LA decide that his needs could be met in the further education sector they must write to you to say they are going to cease to maintain the statement. You then have the right of appeal to SEND against that decision, if you want him to continue at his school.

 

K x

 

Hi Kathryn,

Thank's for your reply, the letter we received said that the statement finishes at the end of July. They didn't say how we could appeal, so I believe there is no legal clock ticking yet, though things need to be in place for September and you know how long everything takes! What is SEND which you mention please?

[Kazzen161]

When we went through this process, the local colleges had to say if they would be able to meet his needs - this process was led by the Connexions person (the one based in the school had several meetings with him to see what he wanted to do in the future and the one based in the home area helped put the information together for a case for funding). I did go in to talk to all the local colleges that offered the type of course he wanted to do, first and told them about T and his difficulties. They all agreed they could not meet his needs.

 

The transition review paperwork goes through what your child wants to do in the future and what he needs to enable him to do that. This can include the desire to live independently and the need for social/living skills. Generally if he is in a residential school and the school agree he woudl not cope with mainstream college, you should be able to put together a good case.

[Kathryn]

Hi Kathryn,

Thank's for your reply, the letter we received said that the statement finishes at the end of July. They didn't say how we could appeal, so I believe there is no legal clock ticking yet, though things need to be in place for September and you know how long everything takes! What is SEND which you mention please?

 

SEND is the Special Educational Needs and Disability Tribunal. an independent body which hears parents' appeals against LEA decisions about statements.

 

If a child moves from compulsory to further education (as many do) the statement just lapses, which is probably what the LEA is expecting to happen as you have been exploring college options and the LA possibly don't expect there to be any dispute about where he is going.

 

If there is disagreement about the school or college option, the SEN Code of Practice says that the LEA should first contact the college and check that they can meet the young person's needs before ceasing the statement.

 

You will need to make the LEA aware as soon as possible that you wish your son to remain in school and therefore the the statement must continue. If they disagree, they must then formally cease to maintain the statement and give you the right of appeal. "Must" = a legal requirement so don't let them slide out of this.

 

I've posted the relevant extracts from the Code below: para 8:123 is particularly relevant and worth quoting if the LEA have "forgotten" their legal obligations.

 

8:120 Once an LEA make a decision to cease to maintain a statement, they must write to the

child’s parents to give notice of their decision, and explain the parents’ right of appeal to

the SEN Tribunal and the time limits for lodging the appeal, the availability of parent

partnership and disagreement resolution services, and the fact that the parent’s right of

appeal cannot be affected by any disagreement resolution procedure. The LEA must

always explain the reasons for their decision and also ensure that parents have copies of

any evidence that led to that decision. It is good practice to offer a meeting to explain the

rationale for the decision and to discuss the provision the child will receive once the

statement has ceased. Such a meeting should be held before the statement and its

provisions actually cease. Provision must be maintained if parents lodge an appeal to the

SEN Tribunal until after the Tribunal makes a decision.

 

8:121 A statement will generally remain in force until and unless the LEA ceases to maintain it.

A statement will lapse automatically when a young person moves into further or higher

education. Therefore, if the young person, the parents, the LEA and the further education

institution are all in agreement about the young person’s transfer, there is no need to

formally cease the statement since the young person will cease to be a pupil for whom

the LEA is responsible after leaving school, and so the statement will lapse.

 

8:122 A young person may leave school at age 16 plus to seek employment or training; again,

there is no need to formally cease to maintain the statement since the young person would

cease to be a pupil for whom the LEA is responsible once they leave school. By contrast,

where there is agreement all-round that the pupil should stay at school post-16, and the

LEA or other LEAs, have appropriate school provision, the LEA should normally continue

to maintain the statement.

 

8:123 Where parents want their child to remain at school post 16, but the LEA considers that

the young person’s special educational needs would be better met in a further education

institution, the LEA cannot know whether the child still requires a statement until it has

contacted the FE institution in question and confirmed that it is both able to meet the

young person’s needs and has offered a place. The LEA should satisfy itself on both

counts before taking formal steps to cease to maintain the young person’s statement.

At that time, the LEA must also notify the parents of their right of appeal to the Tribunal

and the time limits for lodging the appeal, the availability of parent partnership and

disagreement resolution services, and the fact that the parent’s right of appeal cannot be

affected by any disagreement resolution procedure. It is not sufficient for LEAs to have a

general expectation that an FE institution should be able to meet a young person’s needs.

 

8:124 Where the young person’s present school does not cater for children aged 16 plus, the

LEA should consider whether to amend the statement to name another school or cease

the statement if an appropriate FE course is identified. The LEA should formally propose

to amend the statement to name the alternative school or formally propose to cease the

statement. In both cases the LEA must also notify the parents of their right to appeal to

the Tribunal and the time limits for lodging the appeal.

 

K x

Edited June 19, 2010 by Kathryn

[Bluesbreaker]

Having gone through a similar issue with my parents by my side, i agree with Kathryn, i think the LEA are pushing their luck a bit too far, its time you quoted article .123 and tell them they have the obligation to do what it says as per the legalities before they make a decision.

[trekster]

Hi Trekster, Thankyou for replying to me.

From what I saw from the colleges, the support for his education seems alright within the college. When he has refused to go to school, the care staff have come to the house and persuaded him to return. The post 16+ residential home would

help him with cooking, clothes washing, paying bills and things like that. If I try to help him, he gets angry with me. Were you happy with the support you got?

 

Yes i was very happy with college support and am almost settled in my own place with home help.

[Ria]

SEND is the Special Educational Needs and Disability Tribunal. an independent body which hears parents' appeals against LEA decisions about statements.

 

If a child moves from compulsory to further education (as many do) the statement just lapses, which is probably what the LEA is expecting to happen as you have been exploring college options and the LA possibly don't expect there to be any dispute about where he is going.

 

If there is disagreement about the school or college option, the SEN Code of Practice says that the LEA should first contact the college and check that they can meet the young person's needs before ceasing the statement.

 

You will need to make the LEA aware as soon as possible that you wish your son to remain in school and therefore the the statement must continue. If they disagree, they must then formally cease to maintain the statement and give you the right of appeal. "Must" = a legal requirement so don't let them slide out of this.

 

I've posted the relevant extracts from the Code below: para 8:123 is particularly relevant and worth quoting if the LEA have "forgotten" their legal obligations.

 

8:120 Once an LEA make a decision to cease to maintain a statement, they must write to the

child’s parents to give notice of their decision, and explain the parents’ right of appeal to

the SEN Tribunal and the time limits for lodging the appeal, the availability of parent

partnership and disagreement resolution services, and the fact that the parent’s right of

appeal cannot be affected by any disagreement resolution procedure. The LEA must

always explain the reasons for their decision and also ensure that parents have copies of

any evidence that led to that decision. It is good practice to offer a meeting to explain the

rationale for the decision and to discuss the provision the child will receive once the

statement has ceased. Such a meeting should be held before the statement and its

provisions actually cease. Provision must be maintained if parents lodge an appeal to the

SEN Tribunal until after the Tribunal makes a decision.

 

8:121 A statement will generally remain in force until and unless the LEA ceases to maintain it.

A statement will lapse automatically when a young person moves into further or higher

education. Therefore, if the young person, the parents, the LEA and the further education

institution are all in agreement about the young person’s transfer, there is no need to

formally cease the statement since the young person will cease to be a pupil for whom

the LEA is responsible after leaving school, and so the statement will lapse.

 

8:122 A young person may leave school at age 16 plus to seek employment or training; again,

there is no need to formally cease to maintain the statement since the young person would

cease to be a pupil for whom the LEA is responsible once they leave school. By contrast,

where there is agreement all-round that the pupil should stay at school post-16, and the

LEA or other LEAs, have appropriate school provision, the LEA should normally continue

to maintain the statement.

 

8:123 Where parents want their child to remain at school post 16, but the LEA considers that

the young person’s special educational needs would be better met in a further education

institution, the LEA cannot know whether the child still requires a statement until it has

contacted the FE institution in question and confirmed that it is both able to meet the

young person’s needs and has offered a place. The LEA should satisfy itself on both

counts before taking formal steps to cease to maintain the young person’s statement.

At that time, the LEA must also notify the parents of their right of appeal to the Tribunal

and the time limits for lodging the appeal, the availability of parent partnership and

disagreement resolution services, and the fact that the parent’s right of appeal cannot be

affected by any disagreement resolution procedure. It is not sufficient for LEAs to have a

general expectation that an FE institution should be able to meet a young person’s needs.

 

8:124 Where the young person’s present school does not cater for children aged 16 plus, the

LEA should consider whether to amend the statement to name another school or cease

the statement if an appropriate FE course is identified. The LEA should formally propose

to amend the statement to name the alternative school or formally propose to cease the

statement. In both cases the LEA must also notify the parents of their right to appeal to

the Tribunal and the time limits for lodging the appeal.

 

K x

 

[Ria]

Thankyou Kathryn for your very informative reply. Have asked LEA again for a meeting before appealing and am awaiting reply from them. x

[Ria]

Again thank's all for your replies. Whilst I'm going through the motions to fight for funding for my ds to stay out of county because we feel one year of all the support he would get towards independant living would benefit him, is it the right thing to do? ds, after viewing 3 colleges, now says he would rather get a job. If he managed to get a job, he would probably duck out of that too before starting. He would probably hardly ever leave the house. Yet if it's his choice, are we wrong to say he has to go to college and gain life skills?At home, he bosses me about and I know I should stand up to him but before he went away to residential he used to hit me and break things. He is even bigger now. Sometimes we called the police, We didn't know if we needed the police or a doctor to calm him down. Since going residential, he doesn't do that, is only verbal, but I feel the threat is still there and I do what I can to keep him calm. I don't want any neighbours hearing him, some are nice but some are judgemental. If he stays home all day, what will happen to him when we die? We also have a 18 year old dd who rarely leaves the house. She feels so ugly and fat and stays in her room most of the time. She has 2 friends she texts, that's all. We can see dd and ds being company for eachother and not becoming independent. My other dd lives with us with 2 year old grandson. My dh gets on well with ds, very alike, he doesn't get on well with dd's, no conversation. dh is probably as, when ds was diagnosed it was mentioned. Very clever math's teacher,can't get a regular job,doing supply. Lots of personalities here,all very different. So, now you have a clearer picture of our household, what do you think we should do re ds and where he goes next year?

[Kazzen161]

I think those extra years can make all the difference. Our children are often a bit less mature than others of their age, so really you are asking a 13/14 year old what they want to do - and few of them would want to stay at school.

 

You have to think of your child's future (the next 60+ years) - he will never have the chance to get the sort of input he could at the school in the future.

 

He will need to want to stay at the school though - otherwise they will not offer him a place. Can you sell it to him? He also needs to be taking subjects he is interested in.

 

My son went to an excellent residential college and went in a boy and came out a young man able to live independently.

 

(Is the law saying all children have to stay in education/training til 18 not in effect yet?)

 

 

[call me jaded]

I think if you got a solicitor involved it would go to judicial review and you'd get whatever you asked for. The problem is knowing what to ask for and whether your son would stay in hard fought-for provision. Such a waste if he doesn't. Is there anything in the life skills course that will grab his attention?

[Ria]

Thank's Kazzen 161 and call me Jaded, you are quite right in all that you have said. Think I'd lost track but you helped clear the fog. Managed to sit ds down today and talk! Explained pro's and con's of staying away/ coming back and yes, though he doesn't really want to stay away, he did say that he would do that if it meant him going to college where the other boys from his school are going. He admitted that he would find it very stressful, and I thought that was very positive of him to say how he felt about going, because he wouldn't normally. He doesn't want people to know he needs support. Anyway, at least now I know to do all I can to help him stay where he is. That was a very good point about educating people up to age 18, I will look in to that. People on here have made a lot of useful suggastions which I can use, thank's all once again, Ria x

[Ria]

LEA have agreed to a meeting on Tuesday morning. Local college have said that they cannot offer 24 hr. support. Must use this weekend to gather all we need to fight our case. Will let you all know what happens.

[Kathryn]

Good luck!

 

K x

[Ria]

Hi Kathryn, thank's for wishing us luck. Will need it, got a long way to go yet. Think it is a token gesture by LEA, we could pick the time we went and when I asked if they had invited anyone else they said no.Still, this is where we need to put our case across properly. Going to ds school summer fete today. Have a good weekend. x

[bensmum2]

HI I don't know if this will help you, my own son who is almost 15 does not have learning difficulties as such, but he has severe anxiety and school phobia, as part of our appeal to SEND for a special school for him ,i have recently got a private educational pstychologist report. she has concluded that his anxiety is so high that emotional difficulties put him under the category of "moderate learning difficulties" and that if he were forced back into mainstream, it would be very damaging for him. Perhaps thta would help or speak to iPSEA you will find them on the internet good luck x

[trekster]

HI I don't know if this will help you, my own son who is almost 15 does not have learning difficulties as such, but he has severe anxiety and school phobia, as part of our appeal to SEND for a special school for him ,i have recently got a private educational psychologist report. she has concluded that his anxiety is so high that emotional difficulties put him under the category of "moderate learning difficulties" and that if he were forced back into mainstream, it would be very damaging for him. Perhaps that would help or speak to iPSEA you will find them on the internet good luck x

 

This might explain why we appear able to cope academically but cannot cope socially.

 

[Ria]

Thankyou everyone for your replies,

As we expected at the meeting, the reply was that a local college can meet his educational needs and we need social services for the home. ds has become very anxious,swapping and changing his mind over what he wants to do. He is now refusing to stay out of county. He doesn't want to go to any college at all but understands that unless he gets a job or does nothing then he will have to do a course or an apprenticeship and that means college. He just won't get the support here that he would get away from home. If that is what he wants, then how can we force him to go where he doesn't want to go,? even though we as his parents think it would be in his interest ? Should we go to tribunal saying that he is too immature to make that decision? Al, ss. can offer is direct payments so that someone can take ds out. And just what is the point of that -my ds would not go- he has difficulties forming relationships- how is he going to go out with some stranger! What a farce- don't they understand as?! I found their offer upsetting.

Please give me your opinion folks, I don't know what to do for the best. ds doesn't want to do anything, just stay at home.

[Kazzen161]

I doubt the out-of-county placement will offer him a place if he does not want to stay there. That was made very clear when we were going through this. Is there any way you can "sell" the out-of-county placement to him?

[call me jaded]

Is he able to express what's making him anxious about the college placement? Despite what connexions say it is parents that retain responsibility until age 18, so you could name the college if that was the best fit. Get your skates on though.

 

Does the college do outreach? Can they get to the bottom of his anxiety? Also contact NAS Prospects (?) for some discussions on what other options there are.

[trekster]

Thankyou everyone for your replies,

As we expected at the meeting, the reply was that a local college can meet his educational needs and we need social services for the home. ds has become very anxious,swapping and changing his mind over what he wants to do. He is now refusing to stay out of county. He doesn't want to go to any college at all but understands that unless he gets a job or does nothing then he will have to do a course or an apprenticeship and that means college. He just won't get the support here that he would get away from home. If that is what he wants, then how can we force him to go where he doesn't want to go,? even though we as his parents think it would be in his interest ? Should we go to tribunal saying that he is too immature to make that decision? Al, ss. can offer is direct payments so that someone can take ds out. And just what is the point of that -my ds would not go- he has difficulties forming relationships- how is he going to go out with some stranger! What a farce- don't they understand as?! I found their offer upsetting.

Please give me your opinion folks, I don't know what to do for the best. ds doesn't want to do anything, just stay at home.

 

When i went to college without support i crumbled, but in 2001 age 21 City of Bristol college gave me a break. i had support in and out of class and also to get my bus home. It was 1-1 support and i was able to complete my coursework.

[Ria]

Hi everyone, thank's for everything. ds says that he found it stressful just looking around the colleges. Lots of people, not knowing anyone,not knowing what to do, not knowing where to go, people making fun of him, that's whats bothering him. One-to ones haven't worked in the past- but he is older now. Not wanting anyone to know he needs support. And of course, being a teenager, he doesn't want to have a dx of Aspergers and being on the Spectrum. Social worker called this morning, she says that in her opinion he needs to be still in Residential. She says that we are going to have a Core Assessment, but this won't be done before September. This Assessment has me worried,but should I be? Who is going to be at this Assessment? Sw. was not impressed with ds bedroom. This seemed to be a big thing to her that she had to see his room, she said she needed to see it on her first visit. I have 2 dd's at home, one hasn't left the house for over 6 weeks, she has 1 friend that occasionally drops by. Dd feels too fat and ugly to go out. She spends most of the time in her room. Both dd's don't get on with my dh. We, and dh, think he may have undiagnosed as. Other dd is at local uni and has 2year old son who lives here. She is worried that because of this Assessment, ss might say that her son shouldn't be living in a disfunctional house. Little boy is waiting to see paediatrician as his speech is delayed and he is very active (his father has dx of adhd). What's going to happen because of this Assessment? I feel very uneasy about all this. ds wouldn't talk to sw. either. If health are going to be involved too, as sw said they would be, should I speak to gp? I don't want to, and what could they do anyway?

[Ria]

Just want to add something to the above. When I said that my dd's don't get on with my dh, and that we think he is as, my dd's feel that he does not care about them as he appears unemotional and does not start conversations with them. He says that they should do more around the house and he is angry about this. I can see both sides. There is a very good book called "Aspergers in Love", which talks about adult relationships, I wish my girls would read this but they won't, and I wish my dh would go for a dx but he won't. There is a big split between the males and the females in this house, yet I think I have traits of as myself, hence I'm in the middle. My dh is very good with the toddler, as he was with the dd's when they were little.Think it's as they got older he found it hard to be with them.