Don't know what to do

[LS2242]

Hi All

 

My son was excited about returning to school because he could use his new pens. We had a statergy in place for when pupils wanted to borrow his things (this was causing stress last year). I thought we would have a few weeks at least before any issues arose. Wrong again. First day back and the new teacher has said no pencil cases or their own pens as the school has provided them this year. This has set him off and he rightly points out that they should have been told this before the holidays as now he has wasted his money (well mine actually, but that is by the by)He came home from school and was SO SO quiet (tired I thought).

However this is not the major problem of today, and I just dont know how to handle this one. They have been informed today they are doing swimming lessons next Monday and every Monday until November. He kept telling me he doesnt want to go and initially I put it down to him having a bad experience at the leisure centre but eventually he said it was because he didnt like showing his tummy - but other boys dont mind but I do. He also expressed this has been his secret for about a year. I did notice him withdraw at bath times but again I put it down to growing up. He was beside himself, sobbing hysterically. He dosen't want me to talk to the teacher either!

Asked if he had any more secrets - Yes but he initially would not say. Asked him to write it down but he wouldn't. Eventually the next one came out. He said you know I keep doing this (mouth stretching tics) and I cant stop, well it happens somewhere else as well. In the end it came out they where down below. Explained this is normal for a boy his age (9yrs)?? and that it happens to all boys and men. He says it wont stop and he dosent like it. Think you get my drift without me giving any more specifics! I said I would buy him a book he could read to show him it is a part of life.

 

He is such an anxious, scared little boy tonight, I just cant bare to see him like this. Back to the school issues, I just dont think I can go another year of school with him like this. I dont know what i can do. Hand on heart I dont know how much more he can take either, dont get me wrong he is not depressed (yet) but gut instinct tells me he is really not coping.

 

I feel so down and helpless already and we are only on day 1.

[call me jaded]

What about a full body swimsuit? There are some cool sporty ones about. Or are there other issues about swimming that have not yet surfaced?

 

I know I would have to talk to my school before sending in a full body suit, so maybe have a word before you buy.

 

Shame about the pens. Schools just don't think about the expense of returning to school.

[justine1]

That is really a shame about the pens.My eldest NT has been taking his pens/pencils into school for two years,even though they provide some at school he didnt like sharing with other kids,esp the pencils that have been chewed.I have never had any problems with this,surely its not unreasonable for him to use his own stationary?

 

It would be good if you can speak to the school about the swimming issue,again my eldest was against swimming last year as he was very scared,however by the end of the year he came so far he was the third best in his yr group! He is now looking forward to starting again next week. It wont be good for him to miss out,at the same time if there are no alternatives and he is getting too stressed maybe he can stay at school and do something he enjoys??

[JsMum]

Agree that the pencil case rule should of been instucted before they start so they where aware, also children with Autism and NT cope beter with warnings.

 

I think he should be still be allowed to take to school but keep it in his school tray/school bag for the rest of the term until he has got use to the new rule.

 

The swimming thing, I would request that he changes in his own cubicle, so he isnt feeling embarassed, if his body is changing with pubity and his body is doing stuff he cant control this may also be an added reason why he doesnt feel comfortable swimming.

 

It is good you are getting a book on pubity.

 

As with the swimming it maybe that they have to build it up, at first he just acompanies the class and watches.

 

Then the next session, gets changed and just participates for a short period, and then build it up.

 

Request a copy of the swimming programme so that you go throw it together what he may learn, swimming is a life saving skill and also if he becomes to enjoy swimming a great stress buster, and helps you stay fit and healthy so I would want to share the benefits of the swimming cours, if he struggles with noise/social aspects look at other stratagies that help him calm down, so time out, a pair of earplugs, googles for the water, and as said a full body suit though this make him stand out further, so a nice pair of shorts and a swimming tshirt.

 

 

Does he go swimming with you? and are there any swimming sessions in your local swimming centre where they have spersific times for children with special needs, we try and attend our when we can and they have all ranges of disabilities including AS and AFA and Autism.

 

I would work towards goals that enable him to be able to attend the swimming session as it will give him so many benefits too.

 

It may require a breakdown of weekly targets and a spersific IEP.

 

I would remind the teacher also that any new rules be told with a weeks warning so you can prepare your son, though sometimes we cant always have a warning but if it can be provided it makes a big difference.

 

Good Luck for tomorrow.

 

JsMumx

[LS2242]

Thanks. I have spoken with the school and it has been mutually agreed that he will not be attending the swimming. They will not allow him to wear a body suit as an option as he will stand out and get more taunts from the other kids, which will add to the anxiety and will not be positve for his social skills developement and will have a negative impact on the swimming experience.

 

Just to add - He is now also refusing to do PE at school again.

We discussed this and the issue is about getting changed but he wont go in another room as people will call him weird. Also turns out he hates people seeing his feet! He is doing PE and I have told him he has to and has no choice, he was in the end very mature about it and accepted it even though he doesnt like it. (Finally a breakthrough)

 

I can identify when he started refusing PE and looking through my diary, I think I have found a possible cause - A pupil called him a perv and as he asked me what it meant, I did explain. In hindsight, maybe thinking I was doing the right thing , maybe I have contributed to this. The issue with his feet - when I look back he never takes his shoes and socks off in front of anyone including at the beach but I didnt know he felt this way. Actually thinking about it he also has never and wont take his t.shirt off in the summer months, not even in the house.

 

As for what i thought was inappropriate behaviour, after discussing this with a few close friends, and in a bit more detail with son, I think he is right and it is another muscle spasm?? It could be a habit he has got into also.

At least I have a bit of an understanding now about how he feels regarding himself. So now another thing to add to the list, to find ways to help him deal with this and try and give him some confidence.

 

All is not lost, with not going swimming, school are going to do some 1-1 with developing his social skills instead.

Swimming can be a thing to add to our list at home, and we can address this as a family rather than with children he knows from school.

 

 

Thanks everyone

[justine1]

Thanks. I have spoken with the school and it has been mutually agreed that he will not be attending the swimming. They will not allow him to wear a body suit as an option as he will stand out and get more taunts from the other kids, which will add to the anxiety and will not be positve for his social skills developement and will have a negative impact on the swimming experience.

 

Just to add - He is now also refusing to do PE at school again.

We discussed this and the issue is about getting changed but he wont go in another room as people will call him weird. Also turns out he hates people seeing his feet! He is doing PE and I have told him he has to and has no choice, he was in the end very mature about it and accepted it even though he doesnt like it. (Finally a breakthrough)

 

I can identify when he started refusing PE and looking through my diary, I think I have found a possible cause - A pupil called him a perv and as he asked me what it meant, I did explain. In hindsight, maybe thinking I was doing the right thing , maybe I have contributed to this. The issue with his feet - when I look back he never takes his shoes and socks off in front of anyone including at the beach but I didnt know he felt this way. Actually thinking about it he also has never and wont take his t.shirt off in the summer months, not even in the house.

 

As for what i thought was inappropriate behaviour, after discussing this with a few close friends, and in a bit more detail with son, I think he is right and it is another muscle spasm?? It could be a habit he has got into also.

At least I have a bit of an understanding now about how he feels regarding himself. So now another thing to add to the list, to find ways to help him deal with this and try and give him some confidence.

 

All is not lost, with not going swimming, school are going to do some 1-1 with developing his social skills instead.

Swimming can be a thing to add to our list at home, and we can address this as a family rather than with children he knows from school.

 

 

Thanks everyone

This is all so very positive I really feel the school are working with you,its great to see <'> Hope these little changes will help him with his confidence.

[baddad]

Really, really sorry if this sounds negative, but isn't 'not attending swimming' an unhealthy precedent being set rather than a solution? From the fact that he has immediately widened this out to include PE too, I'd be very concerned. And while I would agree with the school that allowing him to be the only child in a full body swim suit would have a negative impact in terms of the way he is viewed by his peers won't the fact that he is the only child not going swimming have similar implications?

I do appreciate that there are no 'simple' solutions, but in real terms - especially if this is mainstream school - these are tiny, tiny 'molehills' compared to some of the mountains he will have to navigate in future if he is not going to live a life of severe compromises. Children do make mountains out of molehills, and while there may be a need to respond slightly differently where autism complicates things the objective for parents/carers should be - regardless of whether a child is austistic or NT - to demonstrate that that is inappropriate and disabling, not to provide a magnifying glass that intensifies the effect. IMO what you should be looking at are ways to get him to join in to school swimming sessions, and to 'downplay' his completely irrational problem with letting other kids see his tummy in situations where it would be normal for other children to see his tummy. To justify them, to accommodate them, to make adjustments that are (in the wider context) unreasonable and limiting can only reinforce them, setting unhealthy and unhelpful precedents for the accommodation of subsequent irrational fears.

 

As I say, sorry if that sounds negative - especially after the school have agreed not to expect him to go swimming - but hopefully, given the number of posts that endorse that, you'll feel that, in terms of 'balance' the alternative view offers some food for thought.

 

L&P

 

BD

[LS2242]

Your post was not negative, it was realistic. I support what you are saying and your thoughts where my initial thoughts. But it is ok for me to say 'he is going swimming' and give him positive encouragement or if still refused basically do a bit of 'tough love' but that is the problem both school and myself could not think of a way that we could do it effectively, with the resources they have and in the time scale.

Yes on this occasson I have given in at the first hurdle, which I know isnt the right thing to do. I keep getting told to pick my battles. Maybe I have picked the wrong battle to bow out of. The PE thing is not a new thing, he was refusing school last term because of PE and I did not give in, I did get him to school, although sometimes a little late and make him do PE.

I think it is ok seeing this from a parents eyes but what about from the children's eyes, who are suffering the anxiety. It maybe a tiny molehill to us but to the person it concerns it is a mountain.

As an example - I am scared stiff of dogs, if someone was to force me into a room with a dog, I would be SO scared. by someone doing this would not take my fear away, in fact it would probably make me worse. So if I was so force him to go swimming, firstly teaching staff would first have the issue with getting him on the bus, then deal with him getting changed, then the issue with him getting into the water. Whilst all this is ongoing, he will have anxiety which in turn will increase his tics, which then the kids will pick on him for... the list goes on, so I guess I am saying there is not just one thing to try and resolve here! All this anxiety in turn I dont believe would help him overcome his fear of showing his tummy. In context though, would i rather him do swimming or do social skills? Swimming is an important life skill, but I believe social skills are much more important to get by in life. I can do swimming with him anytime where he would not have the added pressure of peers looking at him. I realise this is not really your point and more the fact that he has won the battle and I have allowed it to happen, and encouraged it, which will set the seed for future problems.

I can envisage this will happen in the future, in fact I know it will, but again as each problem arises will have to decide which battles to fight. The best thing to do is not always neccessarily the right thing to do. Also in my defence: the school didnt know what to do either.

 

Thank you to all of you for posting your suggestions and advice.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

How things turn out hey, he has come home from school today and after another little positive chat he has agreed to go and give it a try. So in this instance he has made the change and now I will make him stick to it.

Now got to let school know again. They must love me! not!

Edited September 10, 2010 by LS2242

[Cat]

I have always told my sons that there are somethings in life that they are going to have to do and can not be protected from no matter what. Swimming and having to expose any part of your body that you are not happy exposing is not one of those things in my opinion but then I am a pretty radical free thinker when it comes to autism. Life should not be about conforming and doing what everyone else does because everyone else does it, again my opinion.

 

The eldest of my two autistic sons was sent home from school three weeks in a row after suffering an anxiety attack while being forced to play Rugby at school. I also forced him to do other things that he found extremely difficult to cope with. He had his first breakdown when he was 11 and his second when he was 13. Making reasonable adjustments is a legal requirement and even OFSTED recognised that if a child is having particular difficulties in a particular lesson then it was probably a very good idea not to force the child to attend that lesson. Their report was not specifically about autism it was about children generally but it made perfect sense to me. While I never use autism as an excuse ever for my two sons I will never force them to do what everyone else is doing because they need to be like everyone else because they do not.

 

Being body dysmorphic can be quite common is autistic teens and adults and I would not want to make an issue out of something that need not become and issue - but as I have said I am a radical free thinker when it come to autism and my views are often different to other peoples - but being different does not make me wrong (nor does it make me right) or a bad person - which is something I am forever telling my two autistic sons about themselves.

 

I totally agree that there are other things that your son could be doing that will enable him to live in our mainstream world as an adult PE and swimming are not two of those things.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Cat

[Karen A]

I have always told my sons that there are somethings in life that they are going to have to do and can not be protected from no matter what. Swimming and having to expose any part of your body that you are not happy exposing is not one of those things in my opinion but then I am a pretty radical free thinker when it comes to autism. Life should not be about conforming and doing what everyone else does because everyone else does it, again my opinion.

 

The eldest of my two autistic sons was sent home from school three weeks in a row after suffering an anxiety attack while being forced to play Rugby at school. I also forced him to do other things that he found extremely difficult to cope with. He had his first breakdown when he was 11 and his second when he was 13. Making reasonable adjustments is a legal requirement and even OFSTED recognised that if a child is having particular difficulties in a particular lesson then it was probably a very good idea not to force the child to attend that lesson. Their report was not specifically about autism it was about children generally but it made perfect sense to me. While I never use autism as an excuse ever for my two sons I will never force them to do what everyone else is doing because they need to be like everyone else because they do not.

 

Being body dysmorphic can be quite common is autistic teens and adults and I would not want to make an issue out of something that need not become and issue - but as I have said I am a radical free thinker when it come to autism and my views are often different to other peoples - but being different does not make me wrong (nor does it make me right) or a bad person - which is something I am forever telling my two autistic sons about themselves.

 

I totally agree that there are other things that your son could be doing that will enable him to live in our mainstream world as an adult PE and swimming are not two of those things.

[baddad]

I have always told my sons that there are somethings in life that they are going to have to do and can not be protected from no matter what. Swimming and having to expose any part of your body that you are not happy exposing is not one of those things in my opinion but then I am a pretty radical free thinker when it comes to autism. Life should not be about conforming and doing what everyone else does because everyone else does it, again my opinion.

 

Being body dysmorphic can be quite common is autistic teens and adults and I would not want to make an issue out of something that need not become and issue - but as I have said I am a radical free thinker when it come to autism and my views are often different to other peoples - but being different does not make me wrong (nor does it make me right) or a bad person - which is something I am forever telling my two autistic sons about themselves.

 

I totally agree that there are other things that your son could be doing that will enable him to live in our mainstream world as an adult PE and swimming are not two of those things.

 

Hi Cat -

I don't think believing that people should be allowed/ be happy to be different is radical or free-thinking, TBH... maybe you are just 'radical' about the point at which you consider self-over-everyone-else to be reasonable or acceptable(?). Society is about conforming and compromise, and school, and the lessons taught there, is one of those areas of compromise. Of course, some people will choose to reject that conformity - parents maybe choosing to home educate and children choosing to be disruptive/whatever. and maybe later in life that small act of non-confomity becomes disabling in a very real sense rather than 'liberating' in what was, at the time, considered a 'free thinking' sense?

Assumptions about body dysmorphia when a small child offers under duress a rather weak objection to going swimming take free-thinking to another potentially disabling level... 'I don't want to go to school because I have a headache/stomach ache' (brain tumour / bowel cancer?) or 'because the other kids bully me' (they hit me back when I hit them) or 'because the teachers pick on me' (they expect me to do some work / be quiet)... taking a child's preconceptions (genuine, or manufactured; the latter being something children are very good at including autistic children) at face value is irresponsible, because children's preconceptions don't have the weight of adult experience to balance them. If the adult who should be providing that balance for them actually reinforces the 'childish' preconceptions - actually helps build up molehills into mountains rather than teaching how to walk round/step over them - the disabling mountains, both in number and size, will become only more insurmountable. Using the old 'does my bum look big in this' cliché as an example - how many women would be reassured if, on asking that question, their partner said 'no, love, not at all... but I'll tell you what, why not go and slip on a muu-muu so you don't have to worry about it?' Of course, body dysmorphia is real and can be disabling - but it's nowhere near as common as small children offering hastily planned excuses for not doing things they've decided they don't want to do, which, having read the addendum to the OP's last post above is precisely the case here.

I would agree that there are more important life skills to learn than swimming. Things like socialisation, group dynamics, compromise, consideration, tolerance, obedience, personal safety etc all come to mind, for example. All of those things are part of a school swimming lesson - taught practically, intuitively and 'first hand' (exactly how kids learn best) rather than theoretically and second hand as they would be 1-1 in a classroom back at school. Going swimming - or joining in any other group activity - with your peers at school is a hugely valuable life experience that's worth far more than any amount of social stories or 1-1 board games, and should not be casually disregarded on a child's whim. I'm sure you - and other posters - would agree with that were the situation reversed and a parent was posting to complain that their child had been excluded from swimming on the basis that they had told the headmistress they didn't want the other kids seeing their bellybutton...

 

Sorry, LS2242 for 'jumping back in' again. Having read your post last night (pre addendum) I had decided to bow out (but was really happy to see you had taken my observations at face value rather than feeling offended by them! ), but the idea that exempting children from attending timetabled school activities without realistically identified reasons represented 'radical free thinking' was something worthy, i thought, of additional comment.

 

One further point - and this is a somewhat 'harsh' one so i hope it's not misinterpreted... Some negative judgement and feedback - especially at peer level - is absolutely necessary to human development. If a 3 year old child having a tantrum is always protected from the responses of others to tantrums, or sees the tantrum 'justified' by those significant to him/her, he/she will grow into a five year old who has tantrums. If a 5 year old who has tantrums...... (etc etc etc). Building an artificial world where negative behaviours are not judged benefits no one - and the effects on self-esteem are likely to be more significant as a result. Living in isolation with a mum and dad who inappropriately say 'that's okay, we understand' is much much worse than exposure to age-appropriate peer/social pressure, or even the recognition that inappropriate behaviour (or even simply being different) - even when it is uncontrollable - will attract negative responses. The latter is a fact of life that all disabled people need to build defences against. Pretending otherwise and then sending them defenceless into the wider world has far, far greater repercussions.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Karen A]

I have always told my sons that there are somethings in life that they are going to have to do and can not be protected from no matter what. Swimming and having to expose any part of your body that you are not happy exposing is not one of those things in my opinion but then I am a pretty radical free thinker when it comes to autism. Life should not be about conforming and doing what everyone else does because everyone else does it, again my opinion.

 

The eldest of my two autistic sons was sent home from school three weeks in a row after suffering an anxiety attack while being forced to play Rugby at school. I also forced him to do other things that he found extremely difficult to cope with. He had his first breakdown when he was 11 and his second when he was 13. Making reasonable adjustments is a legal requirement and even OFSTED recognised that if a child is having particular difficulties in a particular lesson then it was probably a very good idea not to force the child to attend that lesson. Their report was not specifically about autism it was about children generally but it made perfect sense to me. While I never use autism as an excuse ever for my two sons I will never force them to do what everyone else is doing because they need to be like everyone else because they do not.

 

Being body dysmorphic can be quite common is autistic teens and adults and I would not want to make an issue out of something that need not become and issue - but as I have said I am a radical free thinker when it come to autism and my views are often different to other peoples - but being different does not make me wrong (nor does it make me right) or a bad person - which is something I am forever telling my two autistic sons about themselves.

 

I totally agree that there are other things that your son could be doing that will enable him to live in our mainstream world as an adult PE and swimming are not two of those things.

 

Just to say my quote yesterday was posted as part of a reply.

However whilst attempting to post it we lost Internet access as part of an upgrade and have just got it back.

I cannot Edit now as it is too late so thought I would just explain.

I kept the post I was about to post on the PC and it is here.

I think if school are able to make reasonable adjustments and provide sensitive appropriate support then swimming can be a very positive experience.

However in practice we found it was very difficult to organise.

 

Swimming teachers at LA pools who take lessons often have no training in SEN.The total training in teaching swimming is often only a few weeks.

The school may have a contract with the LA to provide lessons but have very little control over specific teachers.

 

We discovered these things the hard way many years ago when Ben was at primary school.

He had difficulties with water on his face and wanted to wear goggles.The teacher did not agree and threw his goggles into the deep end of the local pool.Ben was extremely distressed in front of his peers and marked out as being different and was subsequently bullied.

We made a formal complaint to the LA as did the school and it was upheld.The swimming teacher was disciplined.However in the process I learned that it can be extremely complex to organise support for pupils with SEN where school have minimal control over what is being provided.

 

School swimming lessons in my area are done in large groups in a noisy environment with awful acoustics.I go swimming myself and avoid school times because I hate the noise and teachers shouting.

School lessons consist of anything up to 30 children with one teacher for half an hour with no time for individual input.

The teacher is forced to shout because the acoustics are awful.Many of the changing rooms are in huge communal areas with no privacy.

Some pupils know that staff cannot observe them carefully and take the oppurtunity to bully other more vulnerable pupils in the changing room.

The teachers have minutes to get thirty young pupils organised to catch the transport and more often than not they end up shouting.

 

This does not come from personal experience with my own children but extensive use of LA pools when other schools are using the facilities.These are not occasional occurences.

Also the school teachers often use the time for lesson prep so the teacher who is with the pupils is probably not the class teacher.Schools do not tend to use TAs to support children because they want to use them for accademic subjects.Even where a TA is present she cannot support the children.

In my area the vast majority of parents who want their children to learn to swim pay for extra lessons after school or at weekends.

There the ratios are more like one to six for none swimmers.

Very few parents expect LA lessons to teach their children to swim.

In any case swimming is not part of the national curriculum.My elder son has never done it at secondary school.

As the pools in my area are shared with the public during lessons I have observed many lessons whilst swimming myself.

It is often not a pleasant experience for nervous or anxious pupils.Far from giving them a skill for life it is more likely to put them off water all together.

There are now many classes for adults to learn to swim with sensitive input because the traditional methods of learning swimming put so many people off learning at school.

 

We go with Ben at the weekends when the pool is quiet and he loves swimming now and can swim very well.

 

We have with other activities used some of Ben's DLA money to pay for individual lessons or group lessons outside of school.

 

As regards your son showing his tummy lots of people wear all in one costumes.They were the topic of debate for elite swimmers in competition last year.

In any case at my local pool many Muslim women swim regularly including my eighty year old neighbour.They swim in full length tops and leggings.Nobody would dream of questioning their choice.On the other hand bikini type outfits that show off the stomach are not permitted as they are considered inappropriate

Edited September 12, 2010 by Karen A

[Mumble]

In any case swimming is not part of the national curriculum.

It is part of the primary national curriculum. All pupils are expected to be able to swim 25m (?? I think - long time since I had my swimming training) by the end of primary school.

[baddad]

Just to say my quote yesterday was posted as part of a reply.

However whilst attempting to post it we lost Internet access as part of an upgrade and have just got it back.

I cannot Edit now as it is too late so thought I would just explain.

I kept the post I was about to post on the PC and it is here.

I think if school are able to make reasonable adjustments and provide sensitive appropriate support then swimming can be a very positive experience.

However in practice we found it was very difficult to organise.

 

Swimming teachers at LA pools who take lessons often have no training in SEN.The total training in teaching swimming is often only a few weeks.

The school may have a contract with the LA to provide lessons but have very little control over specific teachers.

 

We discovered these things the hard way many years ago when Ben was at primary school.

He had difficulties with water on his face and wanted to wear goggles.The teacher did not agree and threw his goggles into the deep end of the local pool.Ben was extremely distressed in front of his peers and marked out as being different and was subsequently bullied.

We made a formal complaint to the LA as did the school and it was upheld.The swimming teacher was disciplined.However in the process I learned that it can be extremely complex to organise support for pupils with SEN where school have minimal control over what is being provided.

 

School swimming lessons in my area are done in large groups in a noisy environment with awful acoustics.I go swimming myself and avoid school times because I hate the noise and teachers shouting.

School lessons consist of anything up to 30 children with one teacher for half an hour with no time for individual input.

The teacher is forced to shout because the acoustics are awful.Many of the changing rooms are in huge communal areas with no privacy.

Some pupils know that staff cannot observe them carefully and take the oppurtunity to bully other more vulnerable pupils in the changing room.

The teachers have minutes to get thirty young pupils organised to catch the transport and more often than not they end up shouting.

 

This does not come from personal experience with my own children but extensive use of LA pools when other schools are using the facilities.These are not occasional occurences.

Also the school teachers often use the time for lesson prep so the teacher who is with the pupils is probably not the class teacher.Schools do not tend to use TAs to support children because they want to use them for accademic subjects.Even where a TA is present she cannot support the children.

In my area the vast majority of parents who want their children to learn to swim pay for extra lessons after school or at weekends.

There the ratios are more like one to six for none swimmers.

Very few parents expect LA lessons to teach their children to swim.

In any case swimming is not part of the national curriculum.My elder son has never done it at secondary school.

As the pools in my area are shared with the public during lessons I have observed many lessons whilst swimming myself.

It is often not a pleasant experience for nervous or anxious pupils.Far from giving them a skill for life it is more likely to put them off water all together.

There are now many classes for adults to learn to swim with sensitive input because the traditional methods of learning swimming put so many people off learning at school.

 

We go with Ben at the weekends when the pool is quiet and he loves swimming now and can swim very well.

 

We have with other activities used some of Ben's DLA money to pay for individual lessons or group lessons outside of school.

 

As regards your son showing his tummy lots of people wear all in one costumes.They were the topic of debate for elite swimmers in competition last year.

In any case at my local pool many Muslim women swim regularly including my eighty year old neighbour.They swim in full length tops and leggings.Nobody would dream of questioning their choice.On the other hand bikini type outfits that show off the stomach are not permitted as they are considered inappropriate

 

While all/some of the above could apply, the OP was talking about proposed swimming lessons. None of the objections you raised would be known, and were, in fact, not in any way voiced as reasons for not wanting to go by the child concerned. As I've said many, many times in the past, making assumptions and offering allowances or excuses on the basis of assumptions can only be disabling; allowing reluctant kids to avoid things they are perfectly able to do and setting unhelpful precedents for future situations where they are reluctant to do things they are perfectly able to do. The OP has acknowledged this, and her son has now overcome his reluctance to show his tummy and agreed to 'give it a try'. Yes, swimming pools can be noisy, crowded places, and sometimes other people who are less than friendly might be using them too. The world outside of the swimming pool - and the family unit - can be similarly noisy, crowded and unfriendly. Should we enable our children to hide away from that too?

 

L&P

 

BD

[Karen A]

It is part of the primary national curriculum. All pupils are expected to be able to swim 25m (?? I think - long time since I had my swimming training) by the end of primary school.

 

I admit I did not know that.

However the time allocation and size of groups in my LA certainly does not allow for children who cannot swim to learn to swim 25m

Pupils have about one year of half hour lessons in large groups.

If parents did not pay for lessons in the evening and weekends and the teachers actually had to teach the children to swim from scratch there would be a problem.

My borough is one of the host boroughs for the tewnty twelve olympics and is supposed to be leading the way.

So if this is the situation in my LA it does not bode well for elsewhere.

 

If it is part of the National Curriculum it would be nice to see it given equal priority when SATS come along.

At my lads school as soon as anything else considered important cropped up lessons were cancelled.

 

I only remembered after I posted this morning.

Ben told me about his school swimming lesson with some amusement one day last year.

He was asked to practice a particular stroke using a float which he found difficult to do.

He attempted to explain to the teacher three times consecutively that he found it easier to try without the float because he was finding coordination difficult due to dyspraxia and AS.

The teacher was of Eastern European origin and was finding it difficult to understand what Ben was attempting to get across.

After several minutes consideration he told Ben he needed to make sure he had his asthma pump with him in future.

Karen.

[Karen A]

While all/some of the above could apply, the OP was talking about proposed swimming lessons. None of the objections you raised would be known, and were, in fact, not in any way voiced as reasons for not wanting to go by the child concerned. As I've said many, many times in the past, making assumptions and offering allowances or excuses on the basis of assumptions can only be disabling; allowing reluctant kids to avoid things they are perfectly able to do and setting unhelpful precedents for future situations where they are reluctant to do things they are perfectly able to do. The OP has acknowledged this, and her son has now overcome his reluctance to show his tummy and agreed to 'give it a try'. Yes, swimming pools can be noisy, crowded places, and sometimes other people who are less than friendly might be using them too. The world outside of the swimming pool - and the family unit - can be similarly noisy, crowded and unfriendly. Should we enable our children to hide away from that too?

 

L&P

 

BD

 

I responded to the OP who did not know what to do about swimming lessons with some of my own experiences.

I am sorry if in your opinion my response does not answer her question and am sure that she can ignore all or some of what I said if it is irrelevant.

However I will not be answering whatever question you are asking me as I have no wish to take the thread off topic.

[JsMum]

I think the trail run needs be very well planned and a spersific IEP for Swimming targets and maybe a look at some swimming suits that he would be comfortable wearin, I wear a full suit, shorts and tshirt as Im very thin and hate getting cold, mine is zoggs, there maybe a male verson of what I wear.

 

When J did go to school and he had swimming lessons he went with his LSA and they sat together on the coach as J doesnt cope in noisy, crowed areas either, then at the swimming baths he had his own cubicle, and the LSA assisted with clothes and lockers as J is very unorganised.

 

In the lesson the swimming instructor who also teatches the Privtely paid lessons after school and one to one lessons was aware of Js dx and difficultes, and his aproaches to J was done sensitively, and he understood Js needs.

 

His LSA was available throwout, and there if needed, he was in a group of around 8 or 10 children, the Swimming Teacher knew it was pointless giving J verbal instructions, he had to give J physical instructions and basically showed them how a stroke was done by doing it himself and showing the children.

 

I hadnt realised the swimming lesson team had done it so well, after reading Karen A reply, swimming pools are naturally noisy because it echoes, and there can be high pitch sounds due to the pure joy of some children swimming because sadly in our area, for some kids this is the first time they have jumped in a pool, in our area it is common for children to have had very little experience of swimming, it is very expensive to go for a swim and lessons are around £30 a term, if you have three or four children that can wipe a family budget out, and then one to one lessons there £70 for 8 weeks.

 

And thouh there are local disability groups, ours is not that well attended because there are other external issues such as difficulties getting to the swimming pool, or shift works in families meaning only one adult to three children, in our pool you have to have a ratio of 2 to 1.

 

So for some families as much as they want their child to go swimming as a family its not finacially or practically possible, and some of the children in the disability pool need 1-1 supervision so leaving siblings with no one observing them or playing with them too.

 

I personally think it is good that schools are providing swimming lessons, but it has to be done sensitively and to he individual child and done with adjustments that able that child to do it.

 

My son is in a residential specialist school now and they regularly go swimming, and he is high risk taking anywhere due to behavioural issues but they take that risk as they know the benefits of him going, afterwards he is a different kid due to the activity.

 

If I won the lottery I know Id invest in a swimming pool, with sensory lights and music all in.

 

JsMumx

Edited September 12, 2010 by JsMum

[call me jaded]

Moderator comment: Can we try and keep the thread 'on topic' by posting about what might help the OP rather than getting distracted by other posters comments? If anyone says 'pot and kettle' they'd be absolutely right!

[LS2242]

Hi All.

 

I do thank you all for your valued input. Actually your input has been very valuable to me.

He has gone with his swimming things today, we had to have many more chats as he had decided to change his mind and not go (I don't think so)so although he is very apprensive and a bit scared, he has gone and showing his tummy too.

I am sure he will have agreat time and hopefully next week will be a bit less stressful for him (and me) and he can start to enjoy the experience.

 

Thanks again

[Karen A]

Hi All.

 

I do thank you all for your valued input. Actually your input has been very valuable to me.

He has gone with his swimming things today, we had to have many more chats as he had decided to change his mind and not go (I don't think so)so although he is very apprensive and a bit scared, he has gone and showing his tummy too.

I am sure he will have agreat time and hopefully next week will be a bit less stressful for him (and me) and he can start to enjoy the experience.

 

Thanks again

 

I hope he has a good time and feels more positive about many more lessons.

Karen.

[baddad]

Hope he has a wonderful time and makes a big splash! (no bombing though, or running round the pool, or... God, haven't swimming pools got BORING!)

 

Oh - a limerick I wrote some years ago to make ben larf when he had swimming lessons:

 

There's a girl in my swim class at school

Who peed while we splashed in the pool

They easily caught her

There's dye in the water

That changes the colour - the fool!

 

L&P

 

BD

[Sammysnake]

Hi LS2242

 

I don't think it's too much to expect the staff at your boy's school to give some thought to how they can support him so he feels more confident in taking part in the swimming with his peers.

 

I'm horrified to read how badly support seems to be organised in some schools for swimming. I'm a SEN TA in a mainstream primary and we have extra 1:1 TA support in the water with two of our kids, the others are split into four groups of differing abilities and each has either a swimming teacher assigned or a member of school staff who has had swim teaching training. There's no way we would leave any of our kids without direct supervision in the changing rooms and the pool is closed to the public whilst the school is using it.

 

In my opinion swimming is an incredibly important part of the curriculum. The first day our Year 3 kids went into the water some of them were incredibly nervous. I was amazed at how quickly they overcame their fears with support and gentle coaxing, gaining in confidencea and doing something that they didn't believe they could do. It's been lovely to watch them blssom and their swimming skills have grown dramatically.

 

One child last year was behaving in a way which was a danger to himself, the other children and the staff but they didn't want him to miss out on what they believe is a very valuable experience for him so they are discussing the possibility of using the pool and specially qualified swim teachers at a nearby special educational school for him to have 1:1 lessons. It just shows what a school can do if they want to. We're just a normal semi rural school, 345 kids, not amazing but the staff really care. I really hope something can be worked out for your boy - with a bit of effort on the teacher and TA's part put into planning, I'm sure it can. Good luck.

[Kathryn]

Hope your son got on OK yesterday - keep us posted.

 

On school swimming lessons generally, maybe it's time for an evaluation of whether they are doing what they are supposed to do or whether the time, effort and money could be spent more productively? Given the short amount of pool time usually available and the high pupil teacher ratio and the need to accommodate widely different abilities, do children actually make enough progress to justify them?

 

My son loves school and takes most new experiences in his stride but he hated school swimming to the extent that it actively put him off for a long time and he still won't go to the same pool as it brings back feaful memories. Not sure exactly what happened there. He certainly didn't learn to swim 25 m, so the swimming curriculum failed him. He eventually learned to swim in a week when we went on holiday to Derbyshire last year. We didn't have to try particularly hard, he did this purely by spending an hour in the pool every day with the undivided attention of at least one adult. By the end of the week he was swimming across the deep end. He just needed the time and space to overcome his fears.

 

Swimming is an essential skill to learn, but it's a huge challenge. Perhaps all children should learn to swim 1-1 with their parents if possible,and ideally long before they start school and have to contend with other challenges. Maybe to aid this, the government should give vouchers for 1-1 swimming lessons when children reach nursery age and scrap swimming from the primary curriculum altogether?

[baddad]

 

Swimming is an essential skill to learn, but it's a huge challenge. Perhaps all children should learn to swim 1-1 with their parents if possible,and ideally long before they start school and have to contend with other challenges. Maybe to aid this, the government should give vouchers for 1-1 swimming lessons when children reach nursery age and scrap swimming from the primary curriculum altogether?

 

I think the idea that kids learn to swim with their parents as infants and/or pre-school is great. But the reality is, I guess, that that is something that will happen anyway if the parents are so inclined? For kids whose parents are reluctant to take them swimming, for whatever reason, or who just see recreational swimming as splashing about in the shallow end (and why not! Great fun!) the in school initiative has got to be a good thing. I don't see any way a voucher system could work - the administrative costs would be huge and/or open to abuse. You'd either need 'designated vouchers' with photo ID of the kids on, or there would be nothing to stop reluctant parents or parents with reluctant kids from just handing them on to people who would be going swimming with their kids anyway, effecting the legitimate income of the pool and perhaps threatening other leisure services. And in most pools when school children are admitted for block lessons the pool is offered exclusively for perhaps two classrooms, whereas a 'ticket system' would involve maybe extremely crowded pools, closed lanes, bigger kids bombing etc and no real opportunity for anything like a swimming 'lesson' whatsoever.

 

I've got to admit I'm a very reluctant swimmer (won't go into details but nothing to do with school swimming lessons - perhaps the last time I really enjoyed swimming, in fact), but I overcame that reluctance to take Ben swimming regularly as an infant in 'Gymbabes' style group sessions and 1 - 1. (The first time I took him he was less than a year old and went so mental afterwards when I put him under the shower that I couldn't get him dressed! I had to walk, dripping, from the changing room and wait outside the laydeez waiting room for his mum to come out and hand him to her while I got changed, and i finished getting him changed in the cafe afterwards!) By the time he got to school swimming lessons he had an untidy but workable 'doggy paddle' under his belt and that gave him the confidence to build up to the 25m + untidy but workable doggy paddle he now uses. And school swimming lessons were difficult, for a number of reasons, and he did get excluded from them twice... But the overall experience, and the fact that he was included alongside his other mainstream peers, was far more wide reaching than just 'swimming lessons' and set him up for all sorts of 'challenges' he would face later in life.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Sammysnake]

I tried teaching my daughter to swim to no avail. She has issues with gross motor skills, particularly bi-lateral and it was like I was speaking a different language whenever I tried to explain or show her what to do. Within a very short space of time having lessons through the school, she was swimming widths and then lengths. I don't know how they did it to be honest but I am very grateful that they did. I didn't have the skills and experience to teach her myself.

 

I would have loved to have put her into lessons at the local pool earlier in life but there's no way I could afford it and have no daytime transport to get there. Also, when asking around I was told the teachers at the pools tended to shout at kids which is no good at all for my girl who already claims she's rubbish at anything physical and gets very easily upset and confused when doing any type of sport or PE. I guess with everything we talk about here, the experience depends on what area you're in unfortunately. Happily the kids at my school have a great time and every individual is making amazing process (I went swimming with Year 4 today and it was ace!).

[chris54]

Swimming is an essential skill to learn, but it's a huge challenge. Perhaps all children should learn to swim 1-1 with their parents if possible,and ideally long before they start school and have to contend with other challenges. Maybe to aid this, the government should give vouchers for 1-1 swimming lessons when children reach nursery age and scrap swimming from the primary curriculum altogether?

 

After a few false starts I finally learnt to swim, after a fashion, at the age of about 18. But I never overcame my fear of open water and have not been swinging since.

I can stand right at the edge of a 20 foot drop with no fear but 3 foot of water terrifies me.

 

Point I'm making is I would be no good to teach my son to swim, nor would his mother or any member of the family I can think of, for various reasons. A definite non swimming family.

My son has had 2 lots of intensive swimming lessons with the school but has yet to make any real progress towards being able to swim. If anything the lack of progress, compared with his "friends" has put him off the whole idea of swimming.

Edited September 14, 2010 by chris54

[LS2242]

Just to give an update.

 

He found his own coping stratergies with preparing himself for swimming yesterday. He made sure he was in the cubicles first so he did not have to share with anyone. He also explains that all the children had to stand at the side of the pool, whilst instructions where given to them all but he said he stood at the back so no one could see him. I did not tell him to do these things and am pleased he found a way round his area of difficulty. As for the lesson itself, sounds as though it went very well. He said he did not understand the instructions (such as doggy paddle) but just copied off the others. No one commented on his appearance (not that there was any reason for them too) but if they had that would have made it a whole negative experience. No one commented on his swimming skills, as most of the class where in the same group. I am so pleased he has been and made that step out of his comfort zone with apositive effect.

 

Thanks again

[baddad]

Just to give an update.

 

He found his own coping stratergies with preparing himself for swimming yesterday. He made sure he was in the cubicles first so he did not have to share with anyone. He also explains that all the children had to stand at the side of the pool, whilst instructions where given to them all but he said he stood at the back so no one could see him. I did not tell him to do these things and am pleased he found a way round his area of difficulty. As for the lesson itself, sounds as though it went very well. He said he did not understand the instructions (such as doggy paddle) but just copied off the others. No one commented on his appearance (not that there was any reason for them too) but if they had that would have made it a whole negative experience. No one commented on his swimming skills, as most of the class where in the same group. I am so pleased he has been and made that step out of his comfort zone with apositive effect.

 

Thanks again

[Karen A]

Hi LS2242

 

I don't think it's too much to expect the staff at your boy's school to give some thought to how they can support him so he feels more confident in taking part in the swimming with his peers.

 

I'm horrified to read how badly support seems to be organised in some schools for swimming. I'm a SEN TA in a mainstream primary and we have extra 1:1 TA support in the water with two of our kids, the others are split into four groups of differing abilities and each has either a swimming teacher assigned or a member of school staff who has had swim teaching training. There's no way we would leave any of our kids without direct supervision in the changing rooms and the pool is closed to the public whilst the school is using it.

 

In my opinion swimming is an incredibly important part of the curriculum. The first day our Year 3 kids went into the water some of them were incredibly nervous. I was amazed at how quickly they overcame their fears with support and gentle coaxing, gaining in confidencea and doing something that they didn't believe they could do. It's been lovely to watch them blssom and their swimming skills have grown dramatically.

 

One child last year was behaving in a way which was a danger to himself, the other children and the staff but they didn't want him to miss out on what they believe is a very valuable experience for him so they are discussing the possibility of using the pool and specially qualified swim teachers at a nearby special educational school for him to have 1:1 lessons. It just shows what a school can do if they want to. We're just a normal semi rural school, 345 kids, not amazing but the staff really care. I really hope something can be worked out for your boy - with a bit of effort on the teacher and TA's part put into planning, I'm sure it can. Good luck.

 

That sounds so positive.

The new pool in my area is better than some of the older ones.

Two of the oldest pools not only have lessons shared with the public for the vast majority of the time.

There are no school changing rooms so children change in open plan rooms with the public.

It is shocking when I think about it.

Staff are never in the pool for school lessons.

I have seen the occasional helpful TA attempting to shout encouragement from the poolside but that is about as near as they can get.

Karen.

[Karen A]

Hope your son got on OK yesterday - keep us posted.

 

On school swimming lessons generally, maybe it's time for an evaluation of whether they are doing what they are supposed to do or whether the time, effort and money could be spent more productively? Given the short amount of pool time usually available and the high pupil teacher ratio and the need to accommodate widely different abilities, do children actually make enough progress to justify them?

 

My son loves school and takes most new experiences in his stride but he hated school swimming to the extent that it actively put him off for a long time and he still won't go to the same pool as it brings back feaful memories. Not sure exactly what happened there. He certainly didn't learn to swim 25 m, so the swimming curriculum failed him. He eventually learned to swim in a week when we went on holiday to Derbyshire last year. We didn't have to try particularly hard, he did this purely by spending an hour in the pool every day with the undivided attention of at least one adult. By the end of the week he was swimming across the deep end. He just needed the time and space to overcome his fears.

 

Swimming is an essential skill to learn, but it's a huge challenge. Perhaps all children should learn to swim 1-1 with their parents if possible,and ideally long before they start school and have to contend with other challenges. Maybe to aid this, the government should give vouchers for 1-1 swimming lessons when children reach nursery age and scrap swimming from the primary curriculum altogether?

 

My borough is one of the host boroughs for the twenty twelve Olympics.

As part of the build up they had had free swims regularly for children with a carer.

It was hugely popular but the funding from Government has now been cut.

The LA are keeping it going for a few months.

There is very much a two level system in my area with lessons.

Those who can pay for after school lessons do and their children are doing 4 strokes by the time they go with the school.

For those who cannot afford the cost which is expensive the children are left with school lessons.

The rules for none swimmers are so stringent now it is even difficult to take a child along and teach them yourself.I have seen great big dads who were confidant swimmers being told they had to keep their own children in the shallow end.

Karen.

[Kathryn]

Fantastic news LS! Well done to him for getting over several big fears and I hope he carries the achievement with him into other areas of life too.

 

Just to add in case anyone got the idea from my above post that I'm attacking parents who don't teach their kids to swim early in their life - I'm not, in fact I place myself in the same category. I didn't take my own children swimming regularly when they were little either, for slightly different reasons. I love swimming, grew up in a hot climate where swimming was a normal everyday activity and I have an aversion to swimming indoors in crowded unhygenic pools, especially in cold weather.

 

I still think children could learn to swim in a few days given intensive 1-1 help but that doesn't necessarily have to be from parents.

 

K x

Edited September 14, 2010 by Kathryn

[Sally44]

I'm glad it went well for him.

I think with things like this, if it is at all possible, to do a trial run with your son beforehand. Then you can identify what is making him anxious. Obviously your discussion and suggestions did help him. Maybe a word in the ear of the swimming instructor so that he doesn't single him out to demonstrate something spontaneously would be worth doing, especially when he is trying to almost be invisible. As his confidence grows he will start to relax.

 

My son learnt to snorkel from around age 4. He had flippers, mask, snorkel and armbands and off we went into the sea together to watch fish and he would point out shells he wanted me to dive for. That was in Greece. However in the UK none of those items are allowed in the swimming pool and so he did not learn to swim until years later.

 

Alot of my son's needs were around sensory issues. He HAS to wear goggles and a nose clip. He cannot bear water getting in his eyes or up his nose. Infact, when that did happen during a swimming lesson at school, my son was trying desperately to adjust his goggles and went under the water (he was in the deep end at the time). The instructor had to dive in to rescue him! He was scared after that. But he still went back for the next lesson and they built his confidence up again. On another occasion he had to be rescured because the school went to a different swimming pool and my son jumped in the deep end when he though it was the shallow end. Again, in dived the instructor!! Confidence had to be built up again. But it happened.

 

I believe that we have to listen to our childrens fears however ridiculous they appear to us because they are very real to them. Then we have to find ways to help them overcome them. And mostly we succeed. Sometimes we do need to put things on the backburner for a while. But we never say never.

 

Now when we go swimming we use a separate disabled changing room. I cannot send my son into the male changing rooms because he simply would not come out the other side! He is too old for the womans changing room now. When he was 8 an attendant had a word with me (which I'm glad she did). And now we have a poolside changing room and shower all to ourselves. At some point he will learn to use the male changing room. But not now.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Sally44

[JsMum]

There are no school changing rooms so children change in open plan rooms with the public.

It is shocking when I think about it.

 

I find that shocking too, in our lesuire centre, they have individual cubicles, Disabled/family cubicles, and two group changing rooms one usually for the boys and the other for girls when the schools use the facilities.

 

I would be very very wary of changing in a group open plan changing room wher other members of the public change, surely cant be safegaurding the children using it for school swimming lessons, as a parent I wouldnt actually agree just on that basis, I would want to be fully asurred that my child was safe when he goes to public venues.

 

JsMum

[Karen A]

There are no school changing rooms so children change in open plan rooms with the public.

It is shocking when I think about it.

 

I find that shocking too, in our lesuire centre, they have individual cubicles, Disabled/family cubicles, and two group changing rooms one usually for the boys and the other for girls when the schools use the facilities.

 

I would be very very wary of changing in a group open plan changing room wher other members of the public change, surely cant be safegaurding the children using it for school swimming lessons, as a parent I wouldnt actually agree just on that basis, I would want to be fully asurred that my child was safe when he goes to public venues.

 

JsMum

 

Hi.

I should say.

My lads have not used the open plan rooms.

I have seen other school groups using them though when I go swimming myself.

Karen.