Doesn't seem fair :(

[Mumble]

Two questions:

 

1. Is the situation below fair?

 

2. If not, what would you do about it (with the added complication that you rely on the support of management for some of your medical needs)?

 

I live in a student hall with nearly 500 students. Last weekend, some idiot student / students decided to wreck the common room, and I mean totally destroy it, smashed up sofas, smashed their way into the vending machines, graffiti everywhere, TV ripped down and smashed.

 

However, management do not know who to blame and so as a punishment are taking the full damage deposit - £250 - off each of us. I'm struggling with my funding this year and really can't afford not to get this back at the end of the year. To top it off, I wasn't even in halls when it happened - I'd been at work during the day and then went out in the evening with my sister and her boyfriend. I can't even use the common room in the evenings when it becomes an extension of the bar as they often have flashing lights which I've been told to avoid, so even if I had been in, I wouldn't have been there.

 

I understand that management need to pay for the damage, but to take the full amount from all of us, when they know full well that some of us weren't there or would not be involved, seems a bit harsh.

[Beth_]

It doesn't seem fair I'm not sure what you can do about it. Maybe a letter from your employer saying you were at work at the time?

It doesn't seem a good idea for the management to do that because if no one is getting their deposit back regardless of if they were involved, then no one has the incentive to look after the rest of the place and it will just make the situation worse.

[baddad]

Hi Mumble -

You know I'm the last person to suggest using a dx for personal 'gain' but in this instance I think it would be fully justified. The Uni have ample evidence from the past few years of how living in halls has been for you, all of which would suggest you're the last person to get involved in a noisy, group demolition party of any kind, and I think the liklihood of you doing it alone without somebody knowing and reporting it would be pretty slim. All perfectly good reasons, IMO, for some 'positive' discrimination in this case, even though in principle it's something I'd generally never defend.

If they listen and you save the £250.00 treat yourself at least to a bar of chocolate, but only the one mind

 

L&P

 

BD

[justine1]

I agree with Baddad and Beth. Get a letter from your employer stating the time and date you were at work,also a letter from the GP saying you dont use the room due to the lights, then send it together with a letter from yourself explaining why you dont think its fair.

 

It really does suck!!!!

[Mumble]

Thanks everyone.

 

It seems like I'm not the only one who's a bit annoyed by this, I had dinner with a small group of students I've found who I get on okay with and they were all talking about this when I joined them. We're all going to write letters of complaint and see what happens.

 

I've included a line about my dx in my letter basically pointing out that they know I wouldn't have been involved and that hopefully they can use some common sense in not applying this sanction to me.

 

I've also said that I won't hesitate in taking things further if I do not receive a positive response from them.

 

If they listen and you save the £250.00 treat yourself at least to a bar of chocolate, but only the one mind

Okay - this one! (I think it'll need a knife and fork!)

[Kathryn]

No, these are just perfect for you!

 

 

I agree it doesn't seem fair, and I hope management see sense. They should do a proper investigation. If you have proof that you were off the premises e.g. shop/restaurant receipt, train ticket, that might help.

 

K x

[Mumble]

No, these are just perfect for you!

Cannibalism!!

[Suze]

if there are 500 students and £250 worth of damage....its 50p each....which isn,t alot ..but its the principle here afterall.............sounds like they need to invest in cctv , then in future the guilty idiots can pay!!!!............and be prosecuted

[Mumble]

if there are 500 students and £250 worth of damage....its 50p each....which isn,t alot

Sorry, I didn't explain - they're taking a full £250 off every one of the nearly 500 students, i.e. over £100,000 There is no way the damage cost that much (and if it did they need to start shopping at Ikea rather than Harrods), yet they are using this to set an example.

[Suze]

yep ................... ..............totally not right ...I,m be pretty too...

[Karen A]

Is there a chance that things might go the way they always do at my lads school when these methods are employed......other pupils decide that rather than take the punishment they will make sure that the individual causing the problem owns up or someone else comes forward with evidence ?

 

Karen.

[Mumble]

Is there a chance that things might go the way they always do at my lads school when these methods are employed......other pupils decide that rather than take the punishment they will make sure that the individual causing the problem owns up or someone else comes forward with evidence ?

Well I spoke to my mentor today and showed her the email we had and the letter I have written. She did say that possibly it was a scare tactic to either make the culprits come forwards or to make someone else come forward, but we also talked about the fact this wouldn't necessarily work in this setting where, and I realise this is a bit sweeping but there's a lot of truth in it, the ones who often cause trouble/get totally drunk/annoy the majority are the ones funded with as much money as they need by Mummy and Daddy and so threats like this won't work with them. The concern is also that there's nothing now to stop anyone being reckless as no-one has anything to lose.

 

We also talked about how the email and management's general way with us treats us like children, talking about taking away privileges etc. My mentor agreed that I should send the letter, so I'm going to hand it in this afternoon and see what happens.

[Karen A]

Well I spoke to my mentor today and showed her the email we had and the letter I have written. She did say that possibly it was a scare tactic to either make the culprits come forwards or to make someone else come forward, but we also talked about the fact this wouldn't necessarily work in this setting where, and I realise this is a bit sweeping but there's a lot of truth in it, the ones who often cause trouble/get totally drunk/annoy the majority are the ones funded with as much money as they need by Mummy and Daddy and so threats like this won't work with them. The concern is also that there's nothing now to stop anyone being reckless as no-one has anything to lose.

 

We also talked about how the email and management's general way with us treats us like children, talking about taking away privileges etc. My mentor agreed that I should send the letter, so I'm going to hand it in this afternoon and see what happens.

 

I hope management understand.

 

Karen.

[Tes]

I read this yesterday and was surprised at the management's approach, although I can understand their anger. They can't, however, just keep your deposit because they can't find the real culprits, that's wrong and a wee lawyer's letter would put paid to that idea, I think you'll find they haven't got a leg to stand on. If there is criminal damage to the extent you described then the police should be involved and a full investigation carried out, the same as in any similar situation out with uni. I also think they must have some sort of insurance cover for this type of incident. However, I might be going in heavy handed here and I think you are probably right in taking the steps you are. A group of you getting together to register complaints should hopefully make them question their approach. It also allows you to maintain the relationship you have with them re: support with medical issues. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

Tes

[call me jaded]

There are some strict rules about what they can and cannot do with your deposit. More here.

[Mumble]

There are some strict rules about what they can and cannot do with your deposit. More here.

Jaded, do you know if that would apply in university halls as opposed to a private rental property? It seems like it should but I wonder. Also, when we paid our deposit, they called it a 'booking fee' although are now referring to it as a deposit, I wonder if the initial wording means they can do something else?

 

Tes, interesting things - I hadn't thought about insurance which they must have, and yes, this is criminal damage so why are they not involving the police? We have local police who work with our hall to ensure 'community relations' so there's no reason not to contact them.

[JsMum]

when you pay your deposit do you sign any tenancy/boarding contract, I am with an housing association and If I caused damage to my property, or if my son harrassed the neighbours I could loose my tenancy agreement, surely the Halls will have something similair so if the real culprits are found, they can be cautioned with maybe loosing thier halls residency.

 

I agree you shouldnt have to pay even a penny, you wasnt involved and have proofe, your halls residency probably has details of how the deposit could be detained, but only if there was proofe you caused the damage, and you didnt, and Im sure it doesnt say anything about having to forfit your deposit if OTHER STUDENTS cause damage!

 

So dont pay anything, and complainx

JsMumx

Edited November 16, 2010 by JsMum

[call me jaded]

Halls are usually run by Housing Association type organisations and those are usually charitable organisations. The tenancy agreement that you signed has to tell you who your landlord is. The booking fee is just income for the HA and will be separate to the deposit. The deposit will be mentioned in your tenancy agreement. You did not sign an agreement with all the other tenants in the halls and cannot be held responsible for their actions. The problem is that the landlord has your deposit and won't want to release it. An old, old trick is to cancel the standing order for the rent at the end of the tenancy a month early 'by mistake'. That's why some landlords ask for six weeks rent as a deposit. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Boy]

That seems really harsh. I agree with the above posts.

 

There's a thief at my brother's work who keeps taking money from the tills. There's lots of 'evidence' that 'proves' it can only be one person, but so far they've been getting away with it. Unfortunately, the managers decided after losing lots of money that any money/stock that went missing has to be paid for by whoever is working that day. So if two people are working the bar, any drink or money that goes missing is paid for between them. But, that means that if the thief takes £60 from the till, they return £30 and are still £30 up, whereas the poor innocent person is £30 down for something they didn't do.

[Mumble]

Unfortunately things aren't looking good. My hall is still run by the university and not by any external housing association. This means they can impose debt sanctions across the services they offer. For instance, last year I had a bill for a whole £3.00 related to halls which I had paid but which the uni had mis-filed and came up as unpaid. Without warning, they withdrew my Internet access and library borrowing rights and it took over a week for them to be reinstated. They have an awful lot they can use against us.

 

I did write to the managers and initially they said sorry, we know you weren't involved we won't take your money, but then obviously lots of students complained as I had, and we got an email to everyone in halls pointing out all the small print in the uni guidelines which state that the uni has the right to take our money if they don't know who damaged something and so they are going to take money from all of us. The contract I signed said I agreed to those terms (not that I had a choice as if I didn't sign it I couldn't live there) so I guess it's my fault. I'm trying to calm down enough to go and talk to the managers but it seems that the regulations are on their side. No chocolate for Mumble.

[call me jaded]

Are they not insured? They seem to be applying 'joint and several liability' BUT you didn't sign a JOINT tenancy with everyone in halls. Property law does apply when the university is landlord too. Maybe speak to Law4All or Shelter to get some good advice.

[Mumble]

Are they not insured? They seem to be applying 'joint and several liability' BUT you didn't sign a JOINT tenancy with everyone in halls. Property law does apply when the university is landlord too. Maybe speak to Law4All or Shelter to get some good advice.

Thanks. I'm going to leave it till next week and possibly speak to my mentor first then go and see management. At the moment I'm not feeling too well and I'm very angry about this situation so it wouldn't do any good for me to confront them as I'm currently feeling. The regulations which I signed on my contract to say I agree with do say they can withhold some or all of the deposit for damage to communal areas not identified as caused by any particular residents. The management have pointed out in the email to all of us that we all have a copy of these regulations and agreed to them.

[Tes]

Mumble, I have been here with landlords. When my daughter was at uni she shared a flat with two people, a sister whom she got on really well with in her first two years and then in her third year the girl's brother arrived whom she didn't get on with. Horrible character, he was. Anyway, she moved back home quite quickly but we continued paying her rent because we were tied into it for 6 months. While she was at home, her room was damaged. When a new flatmate was found, the landlord checked her room and found it had been damaged. As a result they kept her deposit. £300! We too had signed a contract, all legally binding etc., and they waxed lyrically from it to justify their decision etc. So we went to a lawyer and as a student she was entitled to legal aid. It turned out they didn't have a leg to stand on.

 

I can understand how this must be weighing heavily on you, these things do. I think the above advice of contacting Shelter is good, although I have to say at the time the above was happening I tried to contact them for advice and found them very hard to get through to, or seek legal advice. You're probably entitled to Legal Aid. Most first appointments are free anyway, I think.

 

If it's any consolation, we all agree the way you have been treated is unfair and I hope you sort them out when you're feeling more at yourself.

 

Tes