tearful tonight

[julie1]

hi i havent been on for a while but im sure some of you will remember me and can offer some sdvice. My oldest 3 children are all at an independent school and i did a tribunal for 3 of them and the LA backed down at the last min with the last 2. My oldest 2 are doing so well there they just seem to fit in and are making progress, in fact im now batteling to keep my oldest there for 6th form.

the problem is my youngest of the 3 she is really struggling and doesnt seem to fit at all. She is very unhappy and is tearing up her clothes and destroying her belongings. The school seem to have a victorian approach to all the children and while it works for the older children it is not working for my younger daughter. We have had several phone calls and even a letter detailing how bad my daughters behaviour is complaining of all the usual bad eye contact unwilling to join in sulkly moody ect.

On tuesday she got into a fight with another child and it became phisical this is unusual as she does not like touch. The teacher explained in a home school book that both were to blame and both girls said sorry to each other. I backed the school up and sent my daughter to bed early. all was well on wednesday then today she was taken to Matron and told she needed to appologise again to the other girl as she was so traumatised by the fight on tuesday, my daughter refused and walked back to her lesson. She was then taken by the deputy head and placed into isolation from 9.30 until 4.30 tonight when she was told to go to prep. My daughter was told that all the staff were fed up with her and told she was to stay by herself all day. My daughter had no snack or lunch or drink durring this time. There was nothing in her home school book although i did get a phone call at 4.00pm to tell me she was in isolation for the afternoon because of her rudeness to matron walking away from her whilst she was talking to my daughter.

Iam very upset about this as it just seems endless this school is not working for my youngest daughter. Where do i go now who do i go for advice ? If i go back to LA they will just want to put her back into mainstream and that never worked she was only doing 1 hour a day before this school. Imaffraid this school will crush her but im also afraid there is nothing else. I dont know what to do from here on.

[JsMum]

Hi Julie

 

Is the independant school a specialist school? and what type of school does it say in part 4 of her statement?

 

I would write a letter to the school to share your concerns and also put forward what your daughter has said that she had no food and drink.

 

I would also cc it to your local SEN LEA department.

 

Havve you looked at other specialist independant schools in your area/out of county where you think your daughters needs could be better met?or your better suited to your dds needs.

 

It could be that she requires further assessment to look fully at her development.

 

How old is she? it could be that she has added hormones/pubity, been female and all that so there could be other things going on for her too.

 

It doesnt sound like the stratagies are working for your dd, and like you say it may work for your other two, it may be that your DD needs another aproach.

 

I would also want to know more details of the Fight, what caused your DD to hit out and why is she responding with no remorse, it could be she needs further social support to help her understand her actions on other people.

 

How is her behaviour at home? and what about her interaction with her Siblings?

 

Is she destorying her clothes at home or school?

 

The distructive behaviour could well be a way for your dd to communicate/express her feelings, so punishing her will just cause additional behavioural problems, can she access any other forms of theraputic activities to help her express her feelings, it can not be good for her self esteem with her been told that others are just simply fed up with her and then leaving her isolated, this again will just cause her to go further into behavioural problems.

 

It is obvous that her school is not meeting her individual needsx

 

JsMumx

Edited November 25, 2010 by JsMum

[Karen A]

Hi.

I would be very worried about a school[ or even young offenders institution to be honest]that thought it appropriate to keep a child in isolation from 0930 until 1630 without food or a drink.It does sound like a Victorian approach and that is not positive.

 

Has your daughter ever been known to destroy her belongings and clothes before ? If a child has not done this before and starts doing this I think most professionals would be worried that the child was experiencing a high level of distress.

I do not know what you should do.However if it was either of my lads I think I might go as far as to consider contacting the ''Safeguarding Children'' department of the LA to express my worries.

 

Karen.

[Bluesbreaker]

If it were me love, I'd go in the place and personally give them a rollicking.

 

They didn't have the right to deny your daughter any food or drink throughout that period of time, Legally in any form of any education your child is allowed a break.

 

Also, this victorian approach doesn't work with a lot of ASD's, Its hard for me to find a suitable word to describe it, but Strict, outdated and mono-minded come close enough to describe it.

 

Ask some of the others for where to get help, I'm only a teenager unfortunately and this means i don't know the relevent authorities to contact... However, the school needs to understand that not all your children are the same and that not all ASD's will suit with the same system of things. I think the school is taking a judgemental decision by using a 'one size fits all' approach, which obviously does work, in a sense, as it did with your other two children.

 

I think its a case of you need to work with the school and get some backup to say, 'look stop doing ABC approach with my daughter, can you please take a ZYX route instead as you will get further with her' I think this will make a significant different.

 

anyway good luck and i hope everything pans out ok for you

 

edited cause of a stupid typo

Edited November 26, 2010 by Bluesbreaker

[Sally44]

I too am wondering what type of school this is. Is it independent ASD specific?

I have never heard of schools locking up children or denying them food?

Is this from a group of independent schools, or is it a school using a specific approach?

It all seems a bit strange to me TBH.

 

Having said that, what does part 4 of her Statement say?

Maybe others who have moved from independent to independent school can give you some advice. I would also get advice from IPSEA about how you would go about seeking a change of school.

Have you visited any other independent schools that are specific to children with ASD?

[julie1]

thanks for the replies. My daughter is at an independent school which caters for children on the spectrum as well as other difficulties that some of our children have. I kept her home today and the head phoned me, he seemed suprised at what has happened and was not fully aware of what is happening this week, he has promised to look into it and phone me next week. The head said my daughter was offered lunch at a different sitting with the seniors and she refused and wanted to go for lunch with her own year group. He was not made aware that she had nothing to eat and drink. I explained that i felt the school was not meeting my daughters needs and me pointed out that my youngest is very different to the oldest 2. The head went on to say she is moody and reluctant to comply with the teaching staff. I reminded the head of the severity of my daughters difficulties epilepsy add extreemly poor memory and LD although we are not to sure on her real IQ, and the head went on to say her autistic type difficulties as well. He is going to sit down with the staff and come up with a new approach to her needs. I explained that shouting at my daughter to put her jumper in the bin because she had chewed it so much it was comming appart, would not help her as she is so anxious. I do not know of anyother school to take her to our local mainstream schools cannot meet her needs and she will be in the PRU if she schools at home. Our local MLD school said they did not feel it was the right place for my daughter and i know i wouldnt cope with home school. i feel my daughter is trapped and will have to learn to cope only im not sure she ever will. She is also hitting pubity at the moment, i just wish the school could find something positive to do with my daughter.

[Sally44]

Do you mind listing her diagnoses. I am wondering if they are not considering a difficulty she may well have such as sensory integration disorder (along with anxiety for chewing the jumper). A very ridgid need for routine that would make it impossible for her to 'take another sitting'.

Does she have problems with organisation and planning. Does she have a visual timetable and lots of use of visual cues to help reinforce language.

Has her language been fully assessed by a SALT.

Does she have difficulties with executive functions.

Does she tend to refuse everything as her first response out of anxiety.

Does she understand time and time concepts.

 

What therapists are at this school ie. SALT, OT etc.

Is your daughter making progress there both academically and socially?

[julie1]

Do you mind listing her diagnoses. I am wondering if they are not considering a difficulty she may well have such as sensory integration disorder (along with anxiety for chewing the jumper). A very ridgid need for routine that would make it impossible for her to 'take another sitting'.

Does she have problems with organisation and planning. Does she have a visual timetable and lots of use of visual cues to help reinforce language.

Has her language been fully assessed by a SALT.

Does she have difficulties with executive functions.

Does she tend to refuse everything as her first response out of anxiety.

Does she understand time and time concepts.

 

What therapists are at this school ie. SALT, OT etc.

Is your daughter making progress there both academically and socially?

sorry but with4 children i dont get the chance to get on the laptop much, but i do appeciate the replies. you sound like you know my daughter she has so many of the difficulities you have written above. She has a speech therapist every week to help her poor language skills. Im not to sure what sensory intergration or executive function is but i will look it up. we are at Camhs tomorrow to talk about how things are going they have not met this daughter but they are fully aware of my other 3 children. She has hugh problems in thinking ahead she even gets in the car without her shoes on to go shopping its such hard work. im not sure but it really feels like she does the oppersite to everything we ask her to do though im not sure if this is done on purpose. she has no concept of time and cannot tell the time but she is starting to get the hang of o clock and half past. This week school has been better so far no one has told her off so perhaps the Head has done something i really hope so. Anyway im now going to look up those other things you said to see if they shed any light on the situation. thanks again.

[smiley1590]

i'm 20 years old 21 soon!!! have no concept of worded time like quater past and to etc confuses the hell of it gets me all fluttered frustrated annoyed when someone explains time that way round i get anxious over it! i get o clock that took such a long drawn out process and effort i have to say 1.40 etc i know i have probs with executive function would this have something to do with it then i also have diagnosis of dyspraxia so which one could it be ??? i also now get like 14.40 but have to count on my fingers to get that one?

 

XKLX

[westie]

im not sure but it really feels like she does the oppersite to everything we ask her to do though im not sure if this is done on purpose.

 

You might find reading this useful.

http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/related-conditions/pda-pathological-demand-avoidance-syndrome.aspx

 

you/ the school may find some of the following approaches/ tips helpful to try if she is not responding to the usual strategies applied for a child with ASD/Asperger Syndrome (regardless of her diagnosis - its worth a try):

http://www.pdacontact.org.uk/noframes/guidelines.shtml

 

Would perhaps be looking for another school, even though it working for your other two they dont seem to be very understanding of your youngests personality and character (and needs)

Good luck X

[Kathryn]

The head's response sounds encouraging, he has at least shown willing to consider other approaches and if there has been some small improvement, hopefully it will continue. I think it's best to give "the devil you know" a chance to make things work before considering other options, such as a change of school which, from what you've said, would be difficult anyway.

 

K x

[julie1]

we were at camhs today to discuss all4 of my children, when we got onto my 3rd daughter they deciced that they may not be the best people to help her due to the LD. they mentioned a LD team that may or may not take on her needs? Its something to do with her having a low IQ they apparently dont work with children with a low IQ. but they did agree that my daughter need s support and that someone needs to be going into school to try and help the situation.

The head of the school has not phoned this week as promised but my daughter has only been in for 2 days because of the snow so maybe the head has had trouble getting in. the school do usually get back to me when they say they will. My youngest daughter who is 5 was tested last may and we discussed the outcome today they said that they just wernt sure if she has aspergers or a language disorder with sensory difficulties and have asked us to wait another 6 months when they will test her again. I was a little fed up as it felt again like a waste of time but i do understand that they need to get it right. So i will just wait for her to get a little older and see how we go.

[Karen A]

we were at camhs today to discuss all4 of my children, when we got onto my 3rd daughter they deciced that they may not be the best people to help her due to the LD. they mentioned a LD team that may or may not take on her needs? Its something to do with her having a low IQ they apparently dont work with children with a low IQ. but they did agree that my daughter need s support and that someone needs to be going into school to try and help the situation.

The head of the school has not phoned this week as promised but my daughter has only been in for 2 days because of the snow so maybe the head has had trouble getting in. the school do usually get back to me when they say they will. My youngest daughter who is 5 was tested last may and we discussed the outcome today they said that they just wernt sure if she has aspergers or a language disorder with sensory difficulties and have asked us to wait another 6 months when they will test her again. I was a little fed up as it felt again like a waste of time but i do understand that they need to get it right. So i will just wait for her to get a little older and see how we go.

 

If CAMHS have an LD team that is on the ball they may have more ideas than mainstream CAMHS.I think it could be positive as long as the LD team do accept that your daughter needs support and input into the school situation. <'>

 

Karen.

[Sally44]

If your youngest daughter has a language disorder, then she cannot be Aspergers because the criteria states that they must have typical language development up to the age of 3.

 

What kind of language disorder are they suggesting?

What sensory issues does she have.

 

If she has a language disorder and sensory impairments, then you are heading in the direction of a diagnosis of an Autistic Spectrum Disorder - if she meets the other criteria for that ie. difficulties with social interaction.

 

Although sensory difficulties are not part of the diagnostic criteria, most - if not all - those on the spectrum do have difficulties with sensory processing, integration and modulation.

 

I'm glad you've been referred to a department that should be able to help with your daughter.

 

It just seems like such a maze and long slog, especially as you have so many children on the spectrum. <'>

[Karen A]

If your youngest daughter has a language disorder, then she cannot be Aspergers because the criteria states that they must have typical language development up to the age of 3.

 

 

Hi.Although that is most often the case it does depend specifically what the language disorder is.The criteria for AS state that there should be no significant delay in the development of spoken language up to the age of 3.Ben did not have typical language development because his spoken language was extremely advanced at age 3.He also had a language disorder [dysfluency.]However although dysfluency is a language disorder it was considered coincidental and hence the AS diagnosis.

 

Ben also has Sensory Integration disorder and had a diagnosis of Sensory Integration Disorder,dyspraxia and Social Communication Difficulties at one point without professionals being able to agree he fulfilled the criteria for an AS diagnosis never mind ASD.

Sensory Integration Disorder is part of the profile for many forms of disability.Although it is common in AS it is just as common in these too.

 

Julie.

I should say.If your daughter has a low IQ and Social Communication Difficulties then a diagnosis of ASD is probably more likely because of the low IQ regardless of any difficulties with sensory integration.

 

Karen.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Karen A